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However, entire engineering organizations may not be getting as much as they could from AI tools because there’s a lack of strategy.",[],{"_30":610,"_16":272,"_273":611,"_281":632,"_283":284},"ce1c6cc5fc06",[612,616,620,624,628],{"_30":613,"_16":277,"_278":614,"_150":615},"6adc5ab9486d",[],"“I think where the rubber isn't meeting the road is figuring out: What are the business problems in the company that have the most to gain from AI usage?” The CTO clarifies: “There ",{"_30":617,"_16":277,"_278":618,"_150":619},"c5ba9c4f68ef",[382],"should",{"_30":621,"_16":277,"_278":622,"_150":623},"f07293fa6cb1",[]," be room for experimentation. There should be time to try something new and figure out: OK, what can we do with this tool? But when it's only ",{"_30":625,"_16":277,"_278":626,"_150":627},"5f9df2d9d4c6",[382],"that",{"_30":629,"_16":277,"_278":630,"_150":631},"e379adfcef8b",[],", and we don't have targeted goals and outcomes, then things can go off the rails.”",[],{"_30":634,"_16":272,"_273":635,"_281":648,"_283":284},"2806b926c74f",[636,640,644],{"_30":637,"_16":277,"_278":638,"_150":639},"20ca35d47b12",[],"“The companies where I see the most adoption and the most durable benefit from AI are ones that came to AI ",{"_30":641,"_16":277,"_278":642,"_150":643},"616c0fc5205d",[382],"with a specific problem",{"_30":645,"_16":277,"_278":646,"_150":647},"388b7f348ed9",[],". For example: Companies that needed to modernize legacy infrastructure, and hypothesized that AI would help them modernize legacy components much faster than they could have previously.”",[],{"_30":650,"_16":272,"_273":651,"_281":656,"_283":284},"5b354084e16b",[652],{"_30":653,"_16":277,"_278":654,"_150":655},"12e82b130519",[],"“Organizations that want to see organizational benefit need to think about this on an organizational level, not just rely on individuals figuring out what to do.”",[],{"_30":658,"_16":272,"_273":659,"_281":664,"_283":405},"67040ffdada8",[660],{"_30":661,"_16":277,"_278":662,"_150":663},"3192c3835391",[],"How Can Startups Make the Most of AI?",[],{"_30":666,"_16":272,"_273":667,"_281":672,"_283":284},"c31c1f6f739b",[668],{"_30":669,"_16":277,"_278":670,"_150":671},"e85f2ae6eb02",[],"Tacho concedes that different organizations with different resources (and different amounts of runway) will need to take different approaches. “I think you need to look at it as a spectrum of targeted experiments vs. targeted use cases. That proportion needs to be adjusted based on your company’s size and stage.”",[],{"_30":674,"_16":272,"_273":675,"_281":688,"_283":284},"13620c1b08a7",[676,680,684],{"_30":677,"_16":277,"_278":678,"_150":679},"685874eb3c2b",[],"“For startups, those ",{"_30":681,"_16":277,"_278":682,"_150":683},"4c1536f1ca42",[382],"are",{"_30":685,"_16":277,"_278":686,"_150":687},"d0220dd97143",[]," the environments where the individual can have a huge impact. So it would make sense for people to be experimenting, to be rapidly figuring out where they can exploit the capabilities of AI for your business. But you should document that as you go and make sure it's not just one individual deciding to do one-off things. Build a playbook of use cases that aren’t ephemeral.”",[],{"_30":690,"_16":272,"_273":691,"_281":703,"_283":704},"c228156c21bf",[692,696,699],{"_30":693,"_16":277,"_278":694,"_150":695},"9d6d3ffd9258",[],"The companies where I see the most adoption and the most durable benefit from AI are ones that came to AI ",{"_30":697,"_16":277,"_278":698,"_150":643},"21b77ac6de87",[382],{"_30":700,"_16":277,"_278":701,"_150":702},"a0dd1112265f",[],".\" -Laura Tacho / CTO, DX",[],"blockquote",{"_30":706,"_16":272,"_273":707,"_281":712,"_283":284},"9cbbe1b594fb",[708],{"_30":709,"_16":277,"_278":710,"_150":711},"dfbb3abbb75b",[],"“Depending on the market pressures on your business, that's going to dictate how you think about a rollout. Obviously, for startups that rely heavily on individual rigor and urgency in order to get work done, the AI strategy is going to fit better with focus on individuals or small teams. Larger organizations that are dealing with decades’ worth of legacy software need to take a different approach.”",[],{"_30":714,"_16":272,"_273":715,"_281":720,"_283":405},"b6fd364a6a61",[716],{"_30":717,"_16":277,"_278":718,"_150":719},"6383886779c0",[],"How Should Engineering Teams Adopt AI?",[],{"_30":722,"_16":272,"_273":723,"_281":728,"_283":284},"14628ec7a3ab",[724],{"_30":725,"_16":277,"_278":726,"_150":727},"0644eb3d81e9",[],"The CTO empathizes with AI startup founders, who face mounting pressure from a market that moves incredibly fast. “I feel like AI tooling is being commoditized at a rate I have never seen before. A few months ago, when people evaluated tools, they were looking at which model they could use. It was a differentiating feature. And now you can use whichever model you want. Sometimes it feels like things change hourly.”",[],{"_30":730,"_16":272,"_273":731,"_281":736,"_283":284},"8ef01b409a4f",[732],{"_30":733,"_16":277,"_278":734,"_150":735},"d51e49bfa956",[],"However, the CTO notes the increasingly competitive nature of some AI product lines is at odds with the organizational benefit of keeping a unified stack, despite individual developers continuing to crave autonomy. “This is a tough one. The reality is that engineering leads feel that business pressure for vendor consolidation. No company wants to be forking over more money for an arbitrary number of vendors that all more or less solve the same problems.”",[],{"_30":738,"_16":272,"_273":739,"_281":744,"_283":284},"f7b36798e60a",[740],{"_30":741,"_16":277,"_278":742,"_150":743},"66f553aae4c5",[],"Tacho suggests that a viable alternative for startups is to offer developer stipends to allow them freedom of choice. “It’s definitely a reasonable alternative, especially in a startup environment that may be a bit more open with regards to governance, risk, and security. It’ll also depend on whether you work in consumer vs. another industry.”",[],{"_30":746,"_16":272,"_273":747,"_281":752,"_283":284},"5b7ef7b4a362",[748],{"_30":749,"_16":277,"_278":750,"_150":751},"3aa561d546e0",[],"The CTO notes that other companies do attempt to consolidate around single vendors, using targeted proof-of-concept campaigns and running bake-off comparisons between competing vendors when needed. “Some companies decide that since the market's so volatile that they’re going to trial something for six months and then figure out if things stabilize.”",[],{"_30":754,"_16":272,"_273":755,"_281":760,"_283":284},"0b4d6c188f7f",[756],{"_30":757,"_16":277,"_278":758,"_150":759},"27a8a1a77ff3",[],"“I think no matter what approach an organization takes, there are going to be shadow AI tools out there because these are tools that right now are not prohibitively expensive for developers to pay for by themselves, and that is the reality, and it happens everywhere.",[],{"_30":762,"_16":272,"_273":763,"_281":768,"_283":405},"e0a9a743391f",[764],{"_30":765,"_16":277,"_278":766,"_150":767},"9db58c07f28f",[],"How Can AI Startups Target Developers as Customers?",[],{"_30":770,"_16":272,"_273":771,"_281":776,"_283":284},"4a634dd45258",[772],{"_30":773,"_16":277,"_278":774,"_150":775},"331f1c91166e",[],"The CTO notes that while certain market factors appear to be changing, the top drivers for purchasing AI tools, or any tools, remain the same. “I just spoke to a bunch of other CTOs, and while cost was not as much of a factor in purchasing decisions last year, it definitely is this year.”",[],{"_30":778,"_16":272,"_273":779,"_281":800,"_283":284},"aa2b664ed034",[780,784,788,792,796],{"_30":781,"_16":277,"_278":782,"_150":783},"09c47ebcee3c",[],"“But ",{"_30":785,"_16":277,"_278":786,"_150":787},"f774fb057e93",[382],"accuracy",{"_30":789,"_16":277,"_278":790,"_150":791},"3bcaf1a11cff",[]," and ",{"_30":793,"_16":277,"_278":794,"_150":795},"e45a0323c78c",[382],"security",{"_30":797,"_16":277,"_278":798,"_150":799},"9112abe3800d",[]," are still top drivers for purchasing decisions. I think there's some table-stakes aspects for any AI tool that engineering teams have come to expect. Beyond the table stakes, the more that tools can illustrate better ROI and costs, the better.” Tools that can make usage metrics and data readily available will play nicer with developer productivity tooling to paint a clearer picture of ROI.",[],{"_30":802,"_16":272,"_273":803,"_281":830,"_283":284},"9aff8549c806",[804,808,812,815,819,822,826],{"_30":805,"_16":277,"_278":806,"_150":807},"f789e6fe71d6",[],"“For a long time, the primary metrics we had were ",{"_30":809,"_16":277,"_278":810,"_150":811},"019ea183d6b0",[382],"acceptance rate",{"_30":813,"_16":277,"_278":814,"_150":435},"59845b7e0654",[],{"_30":816,"_16":277,"_278":817,"_150":818},"79541bcec86f",[382],"number of licenses",{"_30":820,"_16":277,"_278":821,"_150":452},"8d36458ffd19",[],{"_30":823,"_16":277,"_278":824,"_150":825},"0fd4f5313dd7",[382],"how much was being paid for them",{"_30":827,"_16":277,"_278":828,"_150":829},"aad05ba988f9",[],". But there wasn’t much transparency when it came to how tools were actually being used. So focusing on a really robust admin API is a great way to ensure that you can build a defensible ROI case and get people to keep their wallets open.”",[],{"_30":832,"_16":272,"_273":833,"_281":838,"_283":405},"5bb4ab577ce6",[834],{"_30":835,"_16":277,"_278":836,"_150":837},"477de88b4589",[],"Opportunities for AI Products Targeting Engineering Teams",[],{"_30":840,"_16":272,"_273":841,"_281":854,"_283":284},"93865a87df07",[842,846,850],{"_30":843,"_16":277,"_278":844,"_150":845},"1273a0a32665",[],"“As mentioned, areas like general-purpose code authoring tools may be reaching a level of saturation. But beyond code generation, there are opportunities to target other use cases across the software development lifecycle: Requirements authoring, code review, or changelogs. For AI products targeting engineering teams, the most valuable use cases are the ones that are ",{"_30":847,"_16":277,"_278":848,"_150":849},"c2bd9ce32bc2",[382],"under-solved",{"_30":851,"_16":277,"_278":852,"_150":853},"a4a864a900e9",[]," right now.”",[],{"_30":856,"_16":272,"_273":857,"_281":862,"_283":284},"6e64cdf2d46f",[858],{"_30":859,"_16":277,"_278":860,"_150":861},"91ee8f9c0a9f",[],"Of course, many teams are still concerned about the non-deterministic nature of GenAI and the havoc that a hallucinating LLM might have on their codebase. However, the CTO notes that organizations that have built-in organizational resiliency tend to be the ones that make the most of AI.",[],{"_30":864,"_16":272,"_273":865,"_281":870,"_283":284},"bba9cbbaf459",[866],{"_30":867,"_16":277,"_278":868,"_150":869},"5cd8ab410955",[],"“When you introduce AI, in all its non-deterministic glory [to resilient orgs], they're not falling over. They're not bottlenecked. Whereas companies who don't [have organizational resilience] and think that AI will be a magic solution to all the problems they've been avoiding? Those companies are getting a reality check. The fundamentals don't go away just because you have AI.”",[],{"_30":872,"_16":272,"_273":873,"_281":885,"_283":704},"36375c00e3d1",[874,878,881],{"_30":875,"_16":277,"_278":876,"_150":877},"3df04aba26d5",[],"Beyond code generation, there are opportunities to target other use cases across the software development lifecycle. For AI products targeting engineering teams, the most valuable use cases are the ones that are ",{"_30":879,"_16":277,"_278":880,"_150":849},"ba209d80d01d",[382],{"_30":882,"_16":277,"_278":883,"_150":884},"3f23dea25456",[]," right now.\"",[],{"_30":887,"_16":272,"_273":888,"_281":909,"_283":284},"1569292b9daf",[889,893,897,901,905],{"_30":890,"_16":277,"_278":891,"_150":892},"2875d555a615",[],"“I think developer experience is not an outcome of using AI tools really well. It's a ",{"_30":894,"_16":277,"_278":895,"_150":896},"2df82cb79eb4",[382],"prerequisite",{"_30":898,"_16":277,"_278":899,"_150":900},"5eb089fcacc6",[]," to use them well. What's good for an individual human developer is also good for an agent. There's extra stuff that you might want to do for agents, but the physics of what makes software or codebases easy to contribute to, easy to change...that's important for AI agents ",{"_30":902,"_16":277,"_278":903,"_150":904},"eaf4db67aa68",[382],"and",{"_30":906,"_16":277,"_278":907,"_150":908},"661fd03f5d8c",[]," for humans.",[],{"_30":911,"_16":272,"_273":912,"_281":917,"_283":284},"96d624d478ea",[913],{"_30":914,"_16":277,"_278":915,"_150":916},"98e49bf3fdb0",[],"“AI is an amplifier. If you have parts of your system that are a bit garbage, they're going to be amplified garbage now. And if you have really solid engineering practices that have stayed ahead of the industry curve, then that's going to be amplified and you're going to get even better results.”",[],{"_30":919,"_16":272,"_273":920,"_281":925,"_283":284},"0b66778a3150",[921],{"_30":922,"_16":277,"_278":923,"_150":924},"22dcc00060db",[],"For AI startup founders specifically targeting engineering orgs, the slickest user interfaces and best new user experiences will only go so far. If those engineering orgs that AI themselves are struggling to maintain stable, resilient systems, they may struggle to succeed with any AI product.",[],{"_30":927,"_16":272,"_273":928,"_281":933,"_283":284},"b5599fcb63e6",[929],{"_30":930,"_16":277,"_278":931,"_150":932},"8791ada4d0c1",[],"“To those AI product builders who are concerned about whether their product will be sticky with customers, I might say: Maybe think about building tools that fix your customers’ rickety systems. Probably a less exciting problem to solve, but people have their wallets open for it right now.”",[],{"_30":935,"_16":272,"_273":936,"_281":941,"_283":284},"7b92f345cc9a",[937],{"_30":938,"_16":277,"_278":939,"_150":940},"4ab8a0ba2d26",[],"\n",[],12,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/64845befec4c1deaffc6207521e99246fb71edef-1200x630.png","831ab261-12d5-4714-89b7-6b565a0b8e28","2025-09-04T05:24:00.000Z","ai-productivity-for-engineering-teams","How to Drive AI Productivity and Value for Engineering Teams","blogArticle","recent",[951,1155,1620],{"_291":952,"_301":1149,"_122":1150,"_304":1151,"_308":1152,"_310":1153,"_25":1154,"_313":948},[953,961,969,977,985,993,1001,1009,1017,1025,1033,1041,1049,1056,1064,1071,1079,1086,1094,1109,1117,1125,1133,1141],{"_30":954,"_16":272,"_273":955,"_281":960,"_283":284},"8bff5a45b8c2",[956],{"_30":957,"_16":277,"_278":958,"_150":959},"4d0fa9ba61a1",[],"Most developers agree that code will be increasingly written by agents. If that’s true, then familiarity with a specific programming language's ecosystem will stop being a criteria for hiring software developers.",[],{"_30":962,"_16":272,"_273":963,"_281":968,"_283":284},"eb504d56bfe0",[964],{"_30":965,"_16":277,"_278":966,"_150":967},"fdcb3d04f322",[],"I ran this idea past a few friends who have hired lots of software engineers, and they disagreed.",[],{"_30":970,"_16":272,"_273":971,"_281":976,"_283":284},"f7cb39d48328",[972],{"_30":973,"_16":277,"_278":974,"_150":975},"7645b8420940",[],"The theme that kept coming up: The clearest window into an engineer’s taste is the language they build in.",[],{"_30":978,"_16":272,"_273":979,"_281":984,"_283":284},"e47c738aca13",[980],{"_30":981,"_16":277,"_278":982,"_150":983},"e0bb59e0a7ca",[],"Every language carries its own ethos, a philosophy of how software should be written. A Python developer values readability. A Rust developer values discipline and efficiency.",[],{"_30":986,"_16":272,"_273":987,"_281":992,"_283":284},"c648bb8df520",[988],{"_30":989,"_16":277,"_278":990,"_150":991},"d6f665715d09",[],"These preferences aren’t trivial. They reveal how someone thinks. It’s the kind of craftsmanship they aspire to as a builder. The languages you’ve built in signal who you want to be as an engineer. Like the stickers on your laptop, they tell your story before you even open it to show a demo.",[],{"_30":994,"_16":272,"_273":995,"_281":1000,"_283":405},"b7444d0ca76b",[996],{"_30":997,"_16":277,"_278":998,"_150":999},"0b4f09fc04ae",[],"Beautiful Craftsmanship",[],{"_30":1002,"_16":272,"_273":1003,"_281":1008,"_283":284},"ca1a01043672",[1004],{"_30":1005,"_16":277,"_278":1006,"_150":1007},"c355341980b3",[],"Every programming language encodes a set of values. Spend enough time building in one, and those values shape your sense of taste. What you optimize for, what you tolerate, and what you find ugly.",[],{"_30":1010,"_16":272,"_273":1011,"_281":1016,"_283":284},"8d3510cde703",[1012],{"_30":1013,"_16":277,"_278":1014,"_150":1015},"72ab863a2375",[],"When engineering managers talk about “culture fit,” they’re often circling this idea: Does this person’s taste align with how we build things here?",[],{"_30":1018,"_16":272,"_273":1019,"_281":1024,"_283":405},"5dbdf4097e64",[1020],{"_30":1021,"_16":277,"_278":1022,"_150":1023},"95de8fdf420b",[],"Enough Talk. Let's Look at Code",[],{"_30":1026,"_16":272,"_273":1027,"_281":1032,"_283":284},"529a3727635e",[1028],{"_30":1029,"_16":277,"_278":1030,"_150":1031},"3b4210ac3298",[],"Two snippets that count the frequency of words in a string: one in Python, one in Rust:",[],{"_30":1034,"_16":272,"_273":1035,"_281":1040,"_283":284},"bc9ab5f6f945",[1036],{"_30":1037,"_16":277,"_278":1038,"_150":1039},"4e0df96d3411",[],"",[],{"_30":1042,"_16":272,"_273":1043,"_281":1048,"_283":284},"7893a4d728fa",[1044],{"_30":1045,"_16":277,"_278":1046,"_150":1047},"ff9ec503afd9",[382],"from collections import Counter\n\ndef word_count(text):\n words = text.lower().split()\n return Counter(words)",[],{"_30":1050,"_16":272,"_273":1051,"_281":1055,"_283":284},"18ddf7aa6b5f",[1052],{"_30":1053,"_16":277,"_278":1054,"_150":1039},"7f6492858394",[],[],{"_30":1057,"_16":272,"_273":1058,"_281":1063,"_283":284},"e4978fe996b0",[1059],{"_30":1060,"_16":277,"_278":1061,"_150":1062},"72f725648f98",[],"It’s beautiful because it looks like pseudo-code. A non-programmer could read it and get the gist. It trusts the standard library instead of reinventing the wheel, confident that the built-ins are good enough.",[],{"_30":1065,"_16":272,"_273":1066,"_281":1070,"_283":284},"ebef4f801c56",[1067],{"_30":1068,"_16":277,"_278":1069,"_150":1039},"8aa372662180",[],[],{"_30":1072,"_16":272,"_273":1073,"_281":1078,"_283":284},"8c872342f802",[1074],{"_30":1075,"_16":277,"_278":1076,"_150":1077},"f467ecfbc799",[382],"use std::collections::HashMap;\n\nfn word_count(text: &str) -> HashMap {\n let mut counts = HashMap::new();\n for word in text.to_lowercase().split_whitespace() {\n *counts.entry(word.to_string()).or_insert(0) += 1;\n }\n counts\n}",[],{"_30":1080,"_16":272,"_273":1081,"_281":1085,"_283":284},"e13548a32cc3",[1082],{"_30":1083,"_16":277,"_278":1084,"_150":1039},"e50c65050c96",[],[],{"_30":1087,"_16":272,"_273":1088,"_281":1093,"_283":284},"5a6ab2cc2eea",[1089],{"_30":1090,"_16":277,"_278":1091,"_150":1092},"16b5a0a45145",[],"Every allocation is explicit. Resource usage is tightly controlled. Nothing is left to chance.",[],{"_30":1095,"_16":272,"_273":1096,"_281":1108,"_283":284},"61b9672aa5c9",[1097,1101,1104],{"_30":1098,"_16":277,"_278":1099,"_150":1100},"e5aaf2d3d5dd",[],"Sure, these are toy examples. Python and Rust were built for different kinds of work. In the craftsmanship analogy, it’s more like comparing wood to bronze than comparing two statues. But the point stands: each carries a worldview about how things ",{"_30":1102,"_16":277,"_278":1103,"_150":619},"4a292e9c303b",[382],{"_30":1105,"_16":277,"_278":1106,"_150":1107},"eece71f00e18",[]," be built.",[],{"_30":1110,"_16":272,"_273":1111,"_281":1116,"_283":405},"52c86242083e",[1112],{"_30":1113,"_16":277,"_278":1114,"_150":1115},"2fe68aab8762",[],"So What?",[],{"_30":1118,"_16":272,"_273":1119,"_281":1124,"_283":284},"ffb827525d93",[1120],{"_30":1121,"_16":277,"_278":1122,"_150":1123},"26aed22fcab9",[],"When a team lead looks at the languages a developer has built in, they’re not just gauging how productive that person will be. They’re trying to understand the tribe that person identifies with, and whether it matches the tribe the company is building.",[],{"_30":1126,"_16":272,"_273":1127,"_281":1132,"_283":284},"491e2eb2ebba",[1128],{"_30":1129,"_16":277,"_278":1130,"_150":1131},"84f2cd27928a",[],"That tribe says more than knowledge of a library, linter rule, or test framework ever could.",[],{"_30":1134,"_16":272,"_273":1135,"_281":1140,"_283":284},"b3f31d1c867c",[1136],{"_30":1137,"_16":277,"_278":1138,"_150":1139},"6732e822db6f",[],"In a world where AI systems can translate ideas into code across any language, taste becomes the more important filter for choosing teammates.",[],{"_30":1142,"_16":272,"_273":1143,"_281":1148,"_283":284},"6d088da604c0",[1144],{"_30":1145,"_16":277,"_278":1146,"_150":1147},"2eb323674281",[],"Programming languages may fade into invisible layers between us and our agents. But their ethos will outlive them. They’ve been quietly training us all along. Not in how to write code, but in what we find beautiful.",[],3,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/339cadd16460c27fadcd312c498165a54f306084-1200x630.png","804954e9-5942-46f0-8e19-4baf1977ecbe","2025-11-06T17:33:00.000Z","programming-languages-in-the-age-of-ai","Language as Proxy for Taste",{"_291":1156,"_301":1614,"_122":1615,"_304":1616,"_308":1617,"_310":1618,"_25":1619,"_313":948},[1157,1165,1191,1221,1251,1255,1273,1281,1289,1297,1305,1313,1321,1329,1337,1345,1353,1361,1377,1385,1415,1419,1437,1467,1475,1483,1499,1507,1515,1523,1531,1539,1547,1555,1563,1571,1579,1587,1595],{"_30":1158,"_16":272,"_273":1159,"_281":1164,"_283":405},"381a2829e5b6",[1160],{"_30":1161,"_16":277,"_278":1162,"_150":1163},"ed173195eedb",[],"What Goes Into Multi-Agent Orchestration",[],{"_30":1166,"_16":272,"_273":1167,"_281":1186,"_283":284},"0b951f1697e3",[1168,1173,1177,1182],{"_30":1169,"_16":277,"_278":1170,"_150":1172},"9490cc4a3dcb",[1171,382],"6e234a36b159","AI agents",{"_30":1174,"_16":277,"_278":1175,"_150":1176},"26bf974547df",[]," are autonomous systems which take action independent of regular human intervention. AI startups have been exploring agentic functionality for some time by way of ",{"_30":1178,"_16":277,"_278":1179,"_150":1181},"d65e792aec3c",[1180,382],"dbc01778b568","agentic workflows",{"_30":1183,"_16":277,"_278":1184,"_150":1185},"f83582482685",[]," that utilize agents to sequentially execute steps in a pre-defined process.",[1187,1189],{"_30":1171,"_16":42,"_360":1188},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_agent",{"_30":1180,"_16":42,"_360":1190},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agentic_AI",{"_30":1192,"_16":272,"_273":1193,"_281":1216,"_283":284},"254b7de5073f",[1194,1198,1203,1207,1212],{"_30":1195,"_16":277,"_278":1196,"_150":1197},"5a53b1a2a1ee",[],"However, to scale their AI programs, organizations are experimenting with ",{"_30":1199,"_16":277,"_278":1200,"_150":1202},"9810a6dc2a24",[1201,382],"fca1a210a643","agentic orchestration",{"_30":1204,"_16":277,"_278":1205,"_150":1206},"e02acedd9ebc",[],", the process of managing multiple agents as each one executes its tasks. As one founder puts it, having multiple agents under the hood may turn engineering into a ",{"_30":1208,"_16":277,"_278":1209,"_150":1211},"e0ec55ce9ec0",[1210],"64bf5cb0d83e","multiplayer discipline",{"_30":1213,"_16":277,"_278":1214,"_150":1215},"4128e804001b",[]," that doesn’t just emphasize human-to-human collaboration, but also requires simultaneous human-in-the-loop oversight of AI agents for a variety of use cases.",[1217,1219],{"_30":1201,"_16":42,"_360":1218},"https://www.ibm.com/think/topics/ai-agent-orchestration",{"_30":1210,"_16":42,"_360":1220},"https://www.heavybit.com/library/article/local-first-development",{"_30":1222,"_16":272,"_273":1223,"_281":1246,"_283":284},"9e40939db4f8",[1224,1228,1233,1237,1242],{"_30":1225,"_16":277,"_278":1226,"_150":1227},"4d92ae1ba1bb",[],"We discussed the potential of multi-agentic orchestration with researcher ",{"_30":1229,"_16":277,"_278":1230,"_150":1232},"ed53e0c5d980",[1231],"196f36579fbf","Salah Alzu’bi",{"_30":1234,"_16":277,"_278":1235,"_150":1236},"6776de7a0580",[],", who currently works on the open-source orchestration project ",{"_30":1238,"_16":277,"_278":1239,"_150":1241},"318c430a8a41",[1240],"b2035d9b331b","ROMA",{"_30":1243,"_16":277,"_278":1244,"_150":1245},"ce99c6c4c516",[],".",[1247,1249],{"_30":1231,"_16":42,"_360":1248},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/salahalzubi/",{"_30":1240,"_16":42,"_360":1250},"https://github.com/sentient-agi/ROMA/",{"_30":1252,"_16":122,"_111":1253},"5304fe8bd6fa",{"_113":1254,"_16":115},"image-3c1138d2dc8cee4c4c28c1fbe18b4d86002d4657-1600x516-png",{"_30":1256,"_16":272,"_273":1257,"_281":1270,"_283":284},"5c0c2a658cd4",[1258,1262,1267],{"_30":1259,"_16":277,"_278":1260,"_150":1261},"def2787f9c23",[382],"Researcher Salah Alzu’bi discusses multi-agent systems. Image courtesy ",{"_30":1263,"_16":277,"_278":1264,"_150":1266},"764f0eac5aed",[1265,382],"c44f479c0f5e","Open AGI Summit",{"_30":1268,"_16":277,"_278":1269,"_150":1245},"b3c2e93d52bb",[382],[1271],{"_30":1265,"_16":42,"_360":1272},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghoYOq1bSE4",{"_30":1274,"_16":272,"_273":1275,"_281":1280,"_283":405},"e23d4d2957ad",[1276],{"_30":1277,"_16":277,"_278":1278,"_150":1279},"aae59c7aff9b",[],"Approaching Multi-Agent Architecture",[],{"_30":1282,"_16":272,"_273":1283,"_281":1288,"_283":284},"3dc0c2859c35",[1284],{"_30":1285,"_16":277,"_278":1286,"_150":1287},"dc47259b48e6",[],"Alzu’bi explains that the project arose from a need to provide a common framework for multi-agent communication. “For example, deep research is a common multi-agent use case. And one project might take the approach of having a search agent that grabs a few queries, then extracts information, then has a verifier tell it what it’s missing, and loops again, while another repo might have a different system entirely.”",[],{"_30":1290,"_16":272,"_273":1291,"_281":1296,"_283":284},"5d8bf9f38252",[1292],{"_30":1293,"_16":277,"_278":1294,"_150":1295},"80a988e153ed",[],"Alzu’bi suggests the ROMA project was born in part from the need to benchmark which frameworks had better performance and scaled better. To do so, the team needed to choose how it would assign tasks to agents for execution, which include common strategies like:",[],{"_30":1298,"_16":272,"_273":1299,"_281":1304,"_283":487},"7d092a948594",[1300],{"_30":1301,"_16":277,"_278":1302,"_150":1303},"381e65991c58",[],"Flat Decomposition",[],{"_30":1306,"_16":272,"_273":1307,"_281":1312,"_283":284},"077eb7a8538b",[1308],{"_30":1309,"_16":277,"_278":1310,"_150":1311},"8acc52fc30ec",[],"Operating agents at the same level of abstraction without any hierarchical separation. Flat decomposition systems are used in distributed sensor networks and swarm robotics as they benefit from greater flexibility and generally not having a single point of failure. However, they’ll often have higher overhead for coordination.",[],{"_30":1314,"_16":272,"_273":1315,"_281":1320,"_283":487},"8f5bbf496629",[1316],{"_30":1317,"_16":277,"_278":1318,"_150":1319},"252990ef55a6",[],"Graph-Based Decomposition",[],{"_30":1322,"_16":272,"_273":1323,"_281":1328,"_283":284},"30422dbfb32b",[1324],{"_30":1325,"_16":277,"_278":1326,"_150":1327},"2fc1a4aee12e",[],"A system that represents tasks and dependencies as a graph, within which agents handle nodes or subgraphs. Graph-based is used in task-and-motion-planning systems for robots as they can support complex dependencies and are a good fit for distributed optimization. However, graph-based systems tend to require in-depth dependency tracking.",[],{"_30":1330,"_16":272,"_273":1331,"_281":1336,"_283":487},"9e9d8e520a2a",[1332],{"_30":1333,"_16":277,"_278":1334,"_150":1335},"cb131c7b64a5",[],"Plan-/Goal-Based Decomposition",[],{"_30":1338,"_16":272,"_273":1339,"_281":1344,"_283":284},"463e9c19d7f9",[1340],{"_30":1341,"_16":277,"_278":1342,"_150":1343},"0482d6409c0c",[],"This system focuses on agents achieving goals rather than pre-defined subtasks, breaking down high-level goals into plans. It’s used in goal-conditioned reinforcement learning as it can adapt well to changing environments, but can require significant planning overhead and strong reasoning capabilities.",[],{"_30":1346,"_16":272,"_273":1347,"_281":1352,"_283":487},"cc56fb932237",[1348],{"_30":1349,"_16":277,"_278":1350,"_150":1351},"a656580c7196",[],"Hierarchical Decomposition",[],{"_30":1354,"_16":272,"_273":1355,"_281":1360,"_283":284},"54da9a224160",[1356],{"_30":1357,"_16":277,"_278":1358,"_150":1359},"b3bcb92e0e74",[],"A hierarchical system breaks down tasks into a clearly-defined, tree-like structure of subtasks. This system is used in areas like automated workflows and human-AI collaboration as it can scale better and offer improved reusability, though it can have issues with improper task specification if agents get confused about their precise role.",[],{"_30":1362,"_16":272,"_273":1363,"_281":1376,"_283":284},"fe2aea6def0b",[1364,1368,1372],{"_30":1365,"_16":277,"_278":1366,"_150":1367},"54ff6391b681",[],"The team settled on a ",{"_30":1369,"_16":277,"_278":1370,"_150":1371},"fe943ea4515a",[382],"hierarchical decomposition",{"_30":1373,"_16":277,"_278":1374,"_150":1375},"a69c8c533f4e",[],", utilizing a framework specifically designed to avoid task specification issues by breaking subtasks into three clear categories: Think, write, or search. “The idea is to use a meta-agent framework with recursive recursive hierarchical decomposition, which is what we feel is the most natural, intuitive way to think of these multi-agent systems.”",[],{"_30":1378,"_16":272,"_273":1379,"_281":1384,"_283":405},"8bd8560b91f0",[1380],{"_30":1381,"_16":277,"_278":1382,"_150":1383},"913cba80e94d",[],"Architecture Choices: Context Rot, Parallelization, Hierarchy",[],{"_30":1386,"_16":272,"_273":1387,"_281":1410,"_283":284},"89255e2df45d",[1388,1392,1397,1401,1406],{"_30":1389,"_16":277,"_278":1390,"_150":1391},"fa46d6926011",[],"“We were mostly inspired by Professor ",{"_30":1393,"_16":277,"_278":1394,"_150":1396},"ec9fdbc5402a",[1395],"4babbf446cae","Jürgen Schmidhuber",{"_30":1398,"_16":277,"_278":1399,"_150":1400},"1733a73489eb",[],"’s ",{"_30":1402,"_16":277,"_278":1403,"_150":1405},"9444cb4540f9",[1404],"ce07507eee51","paper on recursive decomposition for long-form generation",{"_30":1407,"_16":277,"_278":1408,"_150":1409},"17f7581976d9",[],". The idea is to recursively break down tasks, which is a very natural way to think about executing tasks in sequence.” The researcher offers an analogy to hierarchical delegation within companies: CEOs toss an important contract to VPs, who break down the project into subtasks for different teams, though the approach has other technical benefits.",[1411,1413],{"_30":1404,"_16":42,"_360":1412},"https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.08275",{"_30":1395,"_16":42,"_360":1414},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/jürgen-schmidhuber-39226872/",{"_30":1416,"_16":122,"_111":1417},"482a726296db",{"_113":1418,"_16":115},"image-7f1eeae0ecf54124779a3b13fc87cfffce966531-1024x471-png",{"_30":1420,"_16":272,"_273":1421,"_281":1434,"_283":284},"d9f7097bcab4",[1422,1426,1431],{"_30":1423,"_16":277,"_278":1424,"_150":1425},"209276e9af4a",[382],"Pioneering AI researcher Jürgen Schmidhuber at the 2017 AI for Good conference. Image courtesy ",{"_30":1427,"_16":277,"_278":1428,"_150":1430},"c60824f456e8",[1429,382],"11634d13c0e5","ITU",{"_30":1432,"_16":277,"_278":1433,"_150":1245},"b1f97a4279ef",[382],[1435],{"_30":1429,"_16":42,"_360":1436},"https://www.flickr.com/photos/itupictures/34343384393/in/photostream/",{"_30":1438,"_16":272,"_273":1439,"_281":1462,"_283":284},"12e544cde95b",[1440,1444,1449,1453,1458],{"_30":1441,"_16":277,"_278":1442,"_150":1443},"1de9f1aaaa78",[],"“Another big problem that hierarchical decomposition addresses is ",{"_30":1445,"_16":277,"_278":1446,"_150":1448},"16af913e93a2",[1447,382],"23dc9b7fcc2f","context rot",{"_30":1450,"_16":277,"_278":1451,"_150":1452},"cb997a9bd7b0",[],", the degraded LLM performance we see when the context size gets very big. Context rot can cause agents to stop performing even simple tasks well.” While techniques like ",{"_30":1454,"_16":277,"_278":1455,"_150":1457},"9db234791c34",[1456,382],"6250b042d033","context compaction",{"_30":1459,"_16":277,"_278":1460,"_150":1461},"79abefaceddd",[]," (which condenses older parts of an interaction to improve performance) have emerged, Alzu’bi suggests that hierarchical may be one of the clearest solutions to the problem.",[1463,1465],{"_30":1447,"_16":42,"_360":1464},"https://research.trychroma.com/context-rot",{"_30":1456,"_16":42,"_360":1466},"https://www.anthropic.com/engineering/effective-context-engineering-for-ai-agents",{"_30":1468,"_16":272,"_273":1469,"_281":1474,"_283":284},"89b92112b60e",[1470],{"_30":1471,"_16":277,"_278":1472,"_150":1473},"64572f39fe27",[],"“Having a hierarchical structure allows for the root task to break things down. And then, each of these little subtasks doesn't even need to know what's above: It has the parent orchestrating that stuff for them. So all [individual agents] need to do is basically just keep solving the task at hand.” The researcher suggests that the approach helps local agents solve problems without a great need for observability and without a significant risk of rot.",[],{"_30":1476,"_16":272,"_273":1477,"_281":1482,"_283":284},"a3fb1a572577",[1478],{"_30":1479,"_16":277,"_278":1480,"_150":1481},"e6e6e6874af6",[],"“In particular, parallelization can solve things really well. You don't need to wait for sequential processing of tasks. For example, if you ask a multi-agent system to map a city, you can break that down into different regions. You don’t need to wait for one neighborhood to finish before starting the next — each agent can map its own area in parallel. Then at the end, the parent agent looks at all the regional maps, makes sense of them, and produces a complete city map.”",[],{"_30":1484,"_16":272,"_273":1485,"_281":1498,"_283":284},"103172e41f8d",[1486,1490,1494],{"_30":1487,"_16":277,"_278":1488,"_150":1489},"1c105415b18d",[],"Finally, the researcher explains his team’s deliberate choice to not treat every task equally. “Not many multi-agent systems seem to do this today, but you don't really need a state of the art model attacking ",{"_30":1491,"_16":277,"_278":1492,"_150":1493},"1643c42c3cc3",[382],"all",{"_30":1495,"_16":277,"_278":1496,"_150":1497},"e2424b4ba487",[]," your tasks at any given moment. For example, you can use a very small model that performs simple tasks very well to save cost and time (because latency can also be a factor). It’s about customizing different models and agents to do particular things within an intuitive framework.”",[],{"_30":1500,"_16":272,"_273":1501,"_281":1506,"_283":405},"c95de51a2fab",[1502],{"_30":1503,"_16":277,"_278":1504,"_150":1505},"ebd9bbaaf0d8",[],"How to Think About Multi-Agent for Startups vs. Enterprises",[],{"_30":1508,"_16":272,"_273":1509,"_281":1514,"_283":284},"78ee5dd470d3",[1510],{"_30":1511,"_16":277,"_278":1512,"_150":1513},"b8b4075ff5d2",[],"The researcher suggests that multi-agent is still new enough to offer a variety of opportunities, though an interesting area for upside is going beyond single-purpose AI products like coding assistants. “I think of what we’re working on as a framework to quickly prototype, or even ‘vibe prompt,’ if you want to call it that, a high-performance multi-agent system for a particular set of tasks that might include search or knowledge retrieval. Just spin it up, change a few prompts, and you have your agent.”",[],{"_30":1516,"_16":272,"_273":1517,"_281":1522,"_283":284},"c678e9e22c3d",[1518],{"_30":1519,"_16":277,"_278":1520,"_150":1521},"10f259881b64",[],"However, building multi-agent for enterprises can bring other challenges, including the need for on-prem security and compatibility with a variety of models. “We designed our project to let you use whatever models you want for whichever use case within a certain budget, which is something people care more about at the enterprise level.”",[],{"_30":1524,"_16":272,"_273":1525,"_281":1530,"_283":284},"2250e87842ad",[1526],{"_30":1527,"_16":277,"_278":1528,"_150":1529},"2c931984602e",[],"The researcher notes that some customers may be sensitive to other operational factors like token budgets and latency. “We built our project to let users fix their budget and latency to desired levels, which we think helps solve some of those problems for enterprises with a preference for on-prem security and flexibility around model choices.”",[],{"_30":1532,"_16":272,"_273":1533,"_281":1538,"_283":284},"8531b77e269a",[1534],{"_30":1535,"_16":277,"_278":1536,"_150":1537},"6752efbd057a",[],"How do organizations know when they’re ready for multi-agent? Or alternatively, can they get by with a simpler, single-agent workflow solution? “Every organization will need to do the validation themselves and think about the trade-offs.”",[],{"_30":1540,"_16":272,"_273":1541,"_281":1546,"_283":704},"f7dda1c74347",[1542],{"_30":1543,"_16":277,"_278":1544,"_150":1545},"b6cb38ea6955",[382],"\"Organizations should have their own internal evaluation suite of benchmarks they run their models against.” -Salah Alzu’bi, AI Researcher/Sentient Foundation",[],{"_30":1548,"_16":272,"_273":1549,"_281":1554,"_283":284},"d0086d5e7548",[1550],{"_30":1551,"_16":277,"_278":1552,"_150":1553},"3220fc320210",[],"For example, single-agent workflow setups can offer faster, simpler deployments, lower overhead for deployment and maintenance, and less operational risk. However, they will hit context limits on larger tasks faster, will require execution that remains rigid and serialized, and perform poorly as tasks grow in complexity.",[],{"_30":1556,"_16":272,"_273":1557,"_281":1562,"_283":284},"26875596ab6c",[1558],{"_30":1559,"_16":277,"_278":1560,"_150":1561},"217aa3214fbb",[],"Multi-agent workflow setups can be more complicated to deploy, demonstrate noticeably higher latency, and incur higher risks at launch due to the additional components. But they can also handle significantly more-complex challenges with longer context windows, and they can evolve more easily over time by swapping in new or upgraded models and agents.",[],{"_30":1564,"_16":272,"_273":1565,"_281":1570,"_283":284},"ee1c586b3b69",[1566],{"_30":1567,"_16":277,"_278":1568,"_150":1569},"0c9c5610dc02",[],"Alzu’bi notes that most enterprises he works with currently seem to focus on an expected set of metrics. “You have metrics like latency, costs, and model performance in general, as well as user satisfaction. But organizations should have their own internal evaluation suite of benchmarks they run their models against.”",[],{"_30":1572,"_16":272,"_273":1573,"_281":1578,"_283":405},"5d30a04f0283",[1574],{"_30":1575,"_16":277,"_278":1576,"_150":1577},"f9e91e7ce9fb",[],"Security, Governance, and the Future",[],{"_30":1580,"_16":272,"_273":1581,"_281":1586,"_283":284},"9c24af9a5784",[1582],{"_30":1583,"_16":277,"_278":1584,"_150":1585},"ec531069d561",[],"At minimum, before implementing a multi-agent framework, the researcher recommends at least a few common-sense security and governance measures. “You don’t want your LLMs having access to your API keys, your passwords, or any of that. A simple prompt injection can leak everything.”",[],{"_30":1588,"_16":272,"_273":1589,"_281":1594,"_283":284},"44b8b153b851",[1590],{"_30":1591,"_16":277,"_278":1592,"_150":1593},"12b1d521f72a",[],"“I would also recommend an internal safety alignment check. At minimum, come up with a list of the most common prompt injection or security threats that LLMs are known to suffer from and test against them. Obviously, this is an area that’s still under development and there are new threats every day, but a good rule of thumb is: Minimize exposure. Don’t give LLMs access to things you care too much about.”",[],{"_30":1596,"_16":272,"_273":1597,"_281":1611,"_283":284},"a750e263d23e",[1598,1602,1607],{"_30":1599,"_16":277,"_278":1600,"_150":1601},"3220e27d44be",[],"“At this time, I would also recommend human oversight with a lot of security checks. There was an incident a little while ago with an AI app ",{"_30":1603,"_16":277,"_278":1604,"_150":1606},"9eb31c21f8f3",[1605],"cf62a19c3dc8","deleting a user’s production database",{"_30":1608,"_16":277,"_278":1609,"_150":1610},"7b1af12495d9",[],". I wouldn't deploy multi-agent systems to high-stakes environments with access to people’s bank accounts yet...not until we fully understand what the risks are.”",[1612],{"_30":1605,"_16":42,"_360":1613},"https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/21/replit_saastr_vibe_coding_incident/",11,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/1ab877266e5e5f0f03028d46f3ce6c2e4fc89af8-1200x630.png","ae075065-43df-410f-87a9-622a362c3e2c","2025-11-05T17:14:00.000Z","how-to-approach-multi-agent-frameworks","How to Approach Multi-Agent Frameworks",{"_291":1621,"_301":2465,"_122":2466,"_304":2467,"_308":2468,"_310":2469,"_25":2470,"_313":948},[1622,1630,1638,1668,1676,1680,1694,1702,1710,1729,1741,1753,1765,1773,1781,1793,1805,1813,1821,1829,1837,1845,1853,1865,1877,1885,1893,1901,1909,1917,1925,1948,1956,1964,1972,1980,1988,1996,2004,2012,2020,2039,2047,2077,2085,2093,2101,2105,2120,2128,2136,2144,2152,2160,2168,2176,2184,2192,2200,2208,2227,2235,2254,2262,2270,2278,2286,2294,2302,2310,2318,2326,2338,2350,2358,2366,2374,2387,2399,2411,2434,2446],{"_30":1623,"_16":272,"_273":1624,"_281":1629,"_283":284},"966b56b78afc",[1625],{"_30":1626,"_16":277,"_278":1627,"_150":1628},"534172fceef8",[],"Developer tools have many challenges when it comes to creating content and leveraging it to drive growth: aligning content strategy with product and go-to-market efforts, maintaining a consistent output of high-quality content, and ensuring their content gets distributed on and off-site.",[],{"_30":1631,"_16":272,"_273":1632,"_281":1637,"_283":284},"32be6ef8cfe7",[1633],{"_30":1634,"_16":277,"_278":1635,"_150":1636},"7cbb095bebba",[],"But one challenge that I don’t hear as many people talking about is the importance of refreshing technical content to keep it up-to-date. In fact, refreshes are one of the biggest opportunities for brands that have been publishing consistently, and they’re a great way to drive awareness without spending a ton of money on new content.",[],{"_30":1639,"_16":272,"_273":1640,"_281":1663,"_283":284},"06089b00109b",[1641,1645,1650,1654,1659],{"_30":1642,"_16":277,"_278":1643,"_150":1644},"516c74e66c1a",[],"This was true in traditional SEO, but it’s even more true in optimizing content for LLMs (AEO or GEO), as the mainstream models ",{"_30":1646,"_16":277,"_278":1647,"_150":1649},"2373ebb51fda",[1648],"91189a00aa8a","seem to favor newer content",{"_30":1651,"_16":277,"_278":1652,"_150":1653},"0bcb51d69e74",[],". With developers ",{"_30":1655,"_16":277,"_278":1656,"_150":1658},"2e5f55c3f0ec",[1657],"b721827be994","increasingly relying",{"_30":1660,"_16":277,"_278":1661,"_150":1662},"8b752a15de1d",[]," on ChatGPT, Claude, and other AI tools to discover new tools and platforms, it’s getting even more important to keep your content fresh.",[1664,1666],{"_30":1648,"_16":42,"_360":1665},"https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.11353",{"_30":1657,"_16":42,"_360":1667},"https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2025/ai",{"_30":1669,"_16":272,"_273":1670,"_281":1675,"_283":284},"1fcf183ff779",[1671],{"_30":1672,"_16":277,"_278":1673,"_150":1674},"ca0efed5b0ab",[],"Here's the thing though: if you've been publishing solid technical content, you're not starting over. The gap between traditional SEO and what works for LLMs isn't massive. You just need some tactical adjustments to how you approach content updates. Let’s dive into it.",[],{"_30":1677,"_16":122,"_111":1678},"071cd380e257",{"_113":1679,"_16":115},"image-e6f0a9686582bac3005253f5c718498b45945e96-1600x740-png",{"_30":1681,"_16":272,"_273":1682,"_281":1692,"_283":284},"04f95945c1a8",[1683,1687],{"_30":1684,"_16":277,"_278":1685,"_150":1686},"a38b3deda618",[382],"Developers increasingly report daily usage of AI tools. Image courtesy ",{"_30":1688,"_16":277,"_278":1689,"_150":1691},"6639f4ab84e8",[1690,382],"1c83e5c2ef8b","StackOverflow",[1693],{"_30":1690,"_16":42,"_360":1667},{"_30":1695,"_16":272,"_273":1696,"_281":1701,"_283":405},"6c9de7dac5f0",[1697],{"_30":1698,"_16":277,"_278":1699,"_150":1700},"99311d3de353",[389],"Why Refreshing Content Matters",[],{"_30":1703,"_16":272,"_273":1704,"_281":1709,"_283":284},"502b6528eaec",[1705],{"_30":1706,"_16":277,"_278":1707,"_150":1708},"dc210b199330",[],"One of the easiest ways to improve an existing website is to improve the content that's already there. Because you don't have to start from scratch, you'll spend less time on each piece of content.",[],{"_30":1711,"_16":272,"_273":1712,"_281":1726,"_283":284},"fcbb8fa1f9c1",[1713,1717,1722],{"_30":1714,"_16":277,"_278":1715,"_150":1716},"1000d117519d",[],"Here's what we've learned working on content strategy for developer tools at ",{"_30":1718,"_16":277,"_278":1719,"_150":1721},"fb2713164c94",[1720],"c4b16dcc3224","Draft.dev",{"_30":1723,"_16":277,"_278":1724,"_150":1725},"e5b8574ed5ea",[],":",[1727],{"_30":1720,"_16":42,"_360":1728},"https://draft.dev/",{"_30":1730,"_16":272,"_273":1731,"_281":1740,"_283":284},"57236b684706",[1732,1736],{"_30":1733,"_16":277,"_278":1734,"_150":1735},"f1f452caa9fe",[389],"Content decay is real.",{"_30":1737,"_16":277,"_278":1738,"_150":1739},"e70d010cab5e",[]," Nearly 60% of blog posts experience declining traffic within 12-24 months of publication. Your best-performing content from 2-3 years ago is likely underperforming today. Version numbers change, discovery algorithms evolve, competitors publish newer content, and technical details become outdated.",[],{"_30":1742,"_16":272,"_273":1743,"_281":1752,"_283":284},"986b97042756",[1744,1748],{"_30":1745,"_16":277,"_278":1746,"_150":1747},"64fc260f7e6d",[389],"Refreshes outperform new content.",{"_30":1749,"_16":277,"_278":1750,"_150":1751},"edc0abc8586e",[]," We consistently see traffic increases of 200-500% for refreshed content while requiring much less investment than new content creation. Plus, updated content is typically indexed faster by search engines and LLMs.",[],{"_30":1754,"_16":272,"_273":1755,"_281":1764,"_283":284},"c392efa6a7c5",[1756,1760],{"_30":1757,"_16":277,"_278":1758,"_150":1759},"62db7d42ac5f",[389],"AI changes everything.",{"_30":1761,"_16":277,"_278":1762,"_150":1763},"8db20d65966b",[]," Because LLMs tend to favor more recently published or updated content, anyone who’s been publishing for years has to consider refreshes a core part of their content strategy. In my view, this is especially important in developer content where out-of-date information erodes reader trust and leads to bugs and wasted time.",[],{"_30":1766,"_16":272,"_273":1767,"_281":1772,"_283":405},"f2f8132ca84b",[1768],{"_30":1769,"_16":277,"_278":1770,"_150":1771},"c64a540d2ce6",[389],"What's Changed With AI-Powered Search",[],{"_30":1774,"_16":272,"_273":1775,"_281":1780,"_283":284},"22b545280622",[1776],{"_30":1777,"_16":277,"_278":1778,"_150":1779},"6edf11425921",[],"Before I dive into specific tactics, you need to understand a little bit about what matters (and doesn't) seem to matter in this new world of AI-powered developer discovery.",[],{"_30":1782,"_16":272,"_273":1783,"_281":1792,"_283":284},"eea483736d11",[1784,1788],{"_30":1785,"_16":277,"_278":1786,"_150":1787},"9521286b57ef",[389],"Freshness of Content",{"_30":1789,"_16":277,"_278":1790,"_150":1791},"ce531d1e7a02",[],"AI models favor recently published or updated content. We recommend considering technical content refreshes at least once a year for this reason.",[],{"_30":1794,"_16":272,"_273":1795,"_281":1804,"_283":284},"20ad3b73e3c1",[1796,1800],{"_30":1797,"_16":277,"_278":1798,"_150":1799},"bd39f44b139b",[389],"Content Structure",{"_30":1801,"_16":277,"_278":1802,"_150":1803},"9a2a0a33eb67",[],"Formatting is more important than ever. LLMs aren't as sophisticated at crawling and inferring meaning as mature search engine crawlers, so you should update content to be:",[],{"_30":1806,"_16":272,"_273":1807,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1812,"_283":284},"35f16733e90e",[1808],{"_30":1809,"_16":277,"_278":1810,"_150":1811},"66cfc6bbc0ec",[],"Skimmable (high-level summaries or bullet points at the top)",[],{"_30":1814,"_16":272,"_273":1815,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1820,"_283":284},"4e2d6d0efd1e",[1816],{"_30":1817,"_16":277,"_278":1818,"_150":1819},"a868a727bca4",[],"Structured (use tables and matrices for comparisons)",[],{"_30":1822,"_16":272,"_273":1823,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1828,"_283":284},"d5c77a609dbd",[1824],{"_30":1825,"_16":277,"_278":1826,"_150":1827},"860120b61639",[],"Self-explaining sections (be aware of chunking)",[],{"_30":1830,"_16":272,"_273":1831,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1836,"_283":284},"d92bd0961e4f",[1832],{"_30":1833,"_16":277,"_278":1834,"_150":1835},"7de6159e3031",[],"Conclusive (key takeaways or FAQs at the bottom)",[],{"_30":1838,"_16":272,"_273":1839,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1844,"_283":284},"1e31b050edae",[1840],{"_30":1841,"_16":277,"_278":1842,"_150":1843},"2278d3649b67",[],"Well linked (internally and externally)",[],{"_30":1846,"_16":272,"_273":1847,"_281":1852,"_283":284},"3e11979b12c9",[1848],{"_30":1849,"_16":277,"_278":1850,"_150":1851},"ff8a1fe27c50",[],"Most of these structural points are good for readers and SEO as well, so this is just a win all around.",[],{"_30":1854,"_16":272,"_273":1855,"_281":1864,"_283":284},"bd9cd7c6905b",[1856,1860],{"_30":1857,"_16":277,"_278":1858,"_150":1859},"34a64ea28b44",[389],"Schema.org Metadata",{"_30":1861,"_16":277,"_278":1862,"_150":1863},"c9e97c6844e1",[],"Structured data helps machines understand your content. Ensuring your website includes simple organization schema, along with FAQ and blog posting schemas, can help your content be better parsed by AI. This requires some technical implementation, but it's worth the effort.",[],{"_30":1866,"_16":272,"_273":1867,"_281":1876,"_283":284},"7882c638eeb8",[1868,1872],{"_30":1869,"_16":277,"_278":1870,"_150":1871},"80d59645a627",[389],"External Brand Mentions",{"_30":1873,"_16":277,"_278":1874,"_150":1875},"45aa6c0cc8ba",[],"In a world where LLMs train on massive datasets from across the web, brand mentions seem to weigh more heavily than backlinks. This means content mentioning your brand positively across a variety of platforms is key to showing up more often in LLMs, and more practically, it means that you should probably be publishing multiple versions of your content across multiple platforms.",[],{"_30":1878,"_16":272,"_273":1879,"_281":1884,"_283":284},"d079db192f41",[1880],{"_30":1881,"_16":277,"_278":1882,"_150":1883},"7e78f62b926e",[],"We’ve found that clients getting more mentions in LLMs are publishing on:",[],{"_30":1886,"_16":272,"_273":1887,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1892,"_283":284},"cf33ca8ac812",[1888],{"_30":1889,"_16":277,"_278":1890,"_150":1891},"312f7d2ca4b9",[],"Newsletters that are published online",[],{"_30":1894,"_16":272,"_273":1895,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1900,"_283":284},"c2531dac384a",[1896],{"_30":1897,"_16":277,"_278":1898,"_150":1899},"8f4b0f3d7460",[],"Personal, partner, and user blogs",[],{"_30":1902,"_16":272,"_273":1903,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1908,"_283":284},"a7ec42c9c74b",[1904],{"_30":1905,"_16":277,"_278":1906,"_150":1907},"1faf652308aa",[],"Dev-focused platforms like Hashnode and Dev.to",[],{"_30":1910,"_16":272,"_273":1911,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1916,"_283":284},"e998da2fcc8b",[1912],{"_30":1913,"_16":277,"_278":1914,"_150":1915},"a3600064e3d0",[],"Relevant Reddit comments (not just link drops)",[],{"_30":1918,"_16":272,"_273":1919,"_281":1924,"_283":284},"21caf4ddac36",[1920],{"_30":1921,"_16":277,"_278":1922,"_150":1923},"6b9f54d814d5",[],"This is a great opportunity for smaller brands to catch up with established players who may have stronger backlink profiles but less focus on external content today.",[],{"_30":1926,"_16":272,"_273":1927,"_281":1945,"_283":284},"c0f5cb50a13c",[1928,1932,1936,1941],{"_30":1929,"_16":277,"_278":1930,"_150":1931},"e0e18924d367",[389],"Comparisons and Roundups",{"_30":1933,"_16":277,"_278":1934,"_150":1935},"c98f4c039b81",[],"More than ever, the goal for developer tools should be to ",{"_30":1937,"_16":277,"_278":1938,"_150":1940},"bf81bf6bc061",[1939],"7c9fa7fa1ebf","guide LLMs towards the category your tool fits into and the specific use cases where it's superior",{"_30":1942,"_16":277,"_278":1943,"_150":1944},"3d977d70a4dd",[],". As developers interact with chat tools and ask progressively more specific questions, you want to make sure your brand is present in those contexts.",[1946],{"_30":1939,"_16":42,"_360":1947},"https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7384638011835244544/",{"_30":1949,"_16":272,"_273":1950,"_281":1955,"_283":284},"edaa3bbce551",[1951],{"_30":1952,"_16":277,"_278":1953,"_150":1954},"af547d661d45",[],"This is where direct comparisons (\"Us vs. Them\") and roundups (\"10 Best Tools for X\") come in. When refreshing this type of content, it’s important that you feed LLMs the most accurate and up-to-date information so they treat it as authoritative on the topic.",[],{"_30":1957,"_16":272,"_273":1958,"_281":1963,"_283":405},"2694461705ed",[1959],{"_30":1960,"_16":277,"_278":1961,"_150":1962},"2a4f144b044a",[389],"Identifying What Needs Refreshing",[],{"_30":1965,"_16":272,"_273":1966,"_281":1971,"_283":284},"aef6db09248a",[1967],{"_30":1968,"_16":277,"_278":1969,"_150":1970},"2cd182b03bc7",[],"With some of the factors above in mind, the next exercise you need to run is to determine which content needs to be refreshed so you can prioritize your efforts accordingly.",[],{"_30":1973,"_16":272,"_273":1974,"_281":1979,"_283":284},"3d4e1f360fd4",[1975],{"_30":1976,"_16":277,"_278":1977,"_150":1978},"2b6827cf5414",[],"Traditionally, we’ve used our clients’ Google Analytics and Search Console data to identify pages with:",[],{"_30":1981,"_16":272,"_273":1982,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1987,"_283":284},"2ff992549660",[1983],{"_30":1984,"_16":277,"_278":1985,"_150":1986},"ded4065a6831",[],"Declining traffic over the past 6-12 months",[],{"_30":1989,"_16":272,"_273":1990,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":1995,"_283":284},"01fecb9a4bd8",[1991],{"_30":1992,"_16":277,"_278":1993,"_150":1994},"122e957bb3c2",[],"Lost rankings for valuable keywords",[],{"_30":1997,"_16":272,"_273":1998,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2003,"_283":284},"07a22646bb02",[1999],{"_30":2000,"_16":277,"_278":2001,"_150":2002},"f7e5c9805007",[],"High bounce rates or low time on page",[],{"_30":2005,"_16":272,"_273":2006,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2011,"_283":284},"56d1bf79d4f0",[2007],{"_30":2008,"_16":277,"_278":2009,"_150":2010},"daa0165bbe1c",[],"Existing backlinks and domain authority",[],{"_30":2013,"_16":272,"_273":2014,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2019,"_283":284},"5fcef2a8598f",[2015],{"_30":2016,"_16":277,"_278":2017,"_150":2018},"60feec86a9fd",[],"Previous strong performance",[],{"_30":2021,"_16":272,"_273":2022,"_281":2036,"_283":284},"c7f2f4b58b9a",[2023,2027,2032],{"_30":2024,"_16":277,"_278":2025,"_150":2026},"cc8a437c0004",[],"I think this method still makes sense ",{"_30":2028,"_16":277,"_278":2029,"_150":2031},"ca05df88c10e",[2030],"8f935b848b69","from an SEO perspective",{"_30":2033,"_16":277,"_278":2034,"_150":2035},"83e9b0f85c77",[],", but it might not be quite as relevant for GEO as it’s still hard to track citations and traffic from LLMs.",[2037],{"_30":2030,"_16":42,"_360":2038},"https://draft.dev/learn/refreshing-blog-posts",{"_30":2040,"_16":272,"_273":2041,"_281":2046,"_283":284},"ddf56671468f",[2042],{"_30":2043,"_16":277,"_278":2044,"_150":2045},"cae019c9daa2",[],"So, at this point, you have a few options:",[],{"_30":2048,"_16":272,"_273":2049,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2072,"_283":284},"73351ef8215b",[2050,2054,2059,2063,2068],{"_30":2051,"_16":277,"_278":2052,"_150":2053},"cbc3c9ed4a34",[],"Use a tool like ",{"_30":2055,"_16":277,"_278":2056,"_150":2058},"afd2ad1b54f3",[2057],"b466478028aa","Scrunch",{"_30":2060,"_16":277,"_278":2061,"_150":2062},"9290aa64ecf1",[]," or ",{"_30":2064,"_16":277,"_278":2065,"_150":2067},"0347d53c58cf",[2066],"3dda66f47b8c","Airops",{"_30":2069,"_16":277,"_278":2070,"_150":2071},"b0b87c6ec45a",[]," to identify content that’s not being cited in LLMs as much as you think it should",[2073,2075],{"_30":2057,"_16":42,"_360":2074},"https://scrunch.com/",{"_30":2066,"_16":42,"_360":2076},"https://www.airops.com/solution/content-refresh",{"_30":2078,"_16":272,"_273":2079,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2084,"_283":284},"3645448d95bb",[2080],{"_30":2081,"_16":277,"_278":2082,"_150":2083},"3fe0539f43f5",[],"Look for any pages on your site that highlight key features, compare your tool to others, or share implementation details and make sure they’re kept up-to-date annually",[],{"_30":2086,"_16":272,"_273":2087,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2092,"_283":284},"94df07cfb192",[2088],{"_30":2089,"_16":277,"_278":2090,"_150":2091},"6f8fdb9448b8",[],"Simply make a plan to regularly review and refresh 1-2 pieces of content per week on an ongoing basis",[],{"_30":2094,"_16":272,"_273":2095,"_281":2100,"_283":284},"fb3f76f372cb",[2096],{"_30":2097,"_16":277,"_278":2098,"_150":2099},"8d624cbbe2e3",[],"You might think that having a dedicated LLM analytics tool is the way to go, but keep in mind that these tools are still imperfect and making very rough estimates, especially around niche topics. So, depending on the type of content you produce, the volume of output, and your resources available, I think all of these options are viable.",[],{"_30":2102,"_16":122,"_111":2103},"449fd2a5cbbf",{"_113":2104,"_16":115},"image-396dd69912b483520372f0aea23c38eac360cc1f-1500x847-png",{"_30":2106,"_16":272,"_273":2107,"_281":2117,"_283":284},"cb880a361c80",[2108,2112],{"_30":2109,"_16":277,"_278":2110,"_150":2111},"604959d4f212",[382],"Video content can offer many benefits and potentially help GEO. Image courtesy ",{"_30":2113,"_16":277,"_278":2114,"_150":2116},"e7dc1e9f2582",[2115,382],"e441772052c2","HubSpot",[2118],{"_30":2115,"_16":42,"_360":2119},"https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/video-marketing-report",{"_30":2121,"_16":272,"_273":2122,"_281":2127,"_283":405},"5fc97e1182f8",[2123],{"_30":2124,"_16":277,"_278":2125,"_150":2126},"a46184c8e198",[389],"Best Practices for Refreshing Developer Content",[],{"_30":2129,"_16":272,"_273":2130,"_281":2135,"_283":284},"758892e01250",[2131],{"_30":2132,"_16":277,"_278":2133,"_150":2134},"632537c09ebb",[],"Once you decide on your method for determining which pages deserve a refresh, here are the tactics we use to update older content:",[],{"_30":2137,"_16":272,"_273":2138,"_281":2143,"_283":487},"df4c81b74d01",[2139],{"_30":2140,"_16":277,"_278":2141,"_150":2142},"8cfda0cd1eaa",[389],"1. Do a Technical Review and Update",[],{"_30":2145,"_16":272,"_273":2146,"_281":2151,"_283":284},"7a6b44688dbe",[2147],{"_30":2148,"_16":277,"_278":2149,"_150":2150},"7ec93939e104",[],"This is the most obvious and important step for technical content as software and its best practices are constantly changing. Checking version numbers, re-running your tutorials, and having an engineer review older pieces is one of the best ways to ensure accuracy and relevance.",[],{"_30":2153,"_16":272,"_273":2154,"_281":2159,"_283":284},"0757d16c5eb9",[2155],{"_30":2156,"_16":277,"_278":2157,"_150":2158},"a8165358fdff",[],"Some of the most important things to review include:",[],{"_30":2161,"_16":272,"_273":2162,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2167,"_283":284},"9b8d05a1ba6d",[2163],{"_30":2164,"_16":277,"_278":2165,"_150":2166},"cf82b4a7c114",[],"Technical accuracy",[],{"_30":2169,"_16":272,"_273":2170,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2175,"_283":284},"969efd70d972",[2171],{"_30":2172,"_16":277,"_278":2173,"_150":2174},"75eb34f8159f",[],"Code examples and screenshots",[],{"_30":2177,"_16":272,"_273":2178,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2183,"_283":284},"820fa104e318",[2179],{"_30":2180,"_16":277,"_278":2181,"_150":2182},"e455a9cc3645",[],"Statistics and benchmarks",[],{"_30":2185,"_16":272,"_273":2186,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2191,"_283":284},"6f201fdc75df",[2187],{"_30":2188,"_16":277,"_278":2189,"_150":2190},"a07c7eb1dcbf",[],"CTAs and brand messaging",[],{"_30":2193,"_16":272,"_273":2194,"_496":497,"_498":499,"_281":2199,"_283":284},"596056f7bf9c",[2195],{"_30":2196,"_16":277,"_278":2197,"_150":2198},"d01e0286062a",[],"Dead or broken links",[],{"_30":2201,"_16":272,"_273":2202,"_281":2207,"_283":487},"ba08ee1aad05",[2203],{"_30":2204,"_16":277,"_278":2205,"_150":2206},"373b2ceb4d5b",[389],"2. Add Rich Media",[],{"_30":2209,"_16":272,"_273":2210,"_281":2224,"_283":284},"18819fdf6ff3",[2211,2215,2220],{"_30":2212,"_16":277,"_278":2213,"_150":2214},"47b20249a3fe",[],"I’ve seen video and unique visual content ",{"_30":2216,"_16":277,"_278":2217,"_150":2219},"2d0b643cc189",[2218],"ac93f95b59be","improve search engine rankings",{"_30":2221,"_16":277,"_278":2222,"_150":2223},"81a3a5f190db",[],", and have heard (although there’s still debate on this) that rich media helps with LLM citation rates as well. Either way, having multiple formats for content (video, text, visual) helps the user experience, so if it’s a high-value piece of content, it might be worth investing in.",[2225],{"_30":2218,"_16":42,"_360":2226},"https://draft.dev/learn/how-video-marketing-improves-seo",{"_30":2228,"_16":272,"_273":2229,"_281":2234,"_283":487},"a200eaf2f26c",[2230],{"_30":2231,"_16":277,"_278":2232,"_150":2233},"29c8f4d7a67f",[389],"3. Revisit Formatting and Structured Markup",[],{"_30":2236,"_16":272,"_273":2237,"_281":2251,"_283":284},"cd1cc847c7d3",[2238,2242,2247],{"_30":2239,"_16":277,"_278":2240,"_150":2241},"a2d66c6a2efc",[],"If you haven’t updated this piece since LLMs became mainstream, I’d recommend looking at the article’s formatting and Schema.org metadata to ensure it’s ",{"_30":2243,"_16":277,"_278":2244,"_150":2246},"58ea33e92841",[2245],"80c6357f6431","following best practices",{"_30":2248,"_16":277,"_278":2249,"_150":2250},"71436b0e9cf5",[],". Little things like having a table of contents or some “takeaways” at the end of the article can make a big difference and take very little effort to add.",[2252],{"_30":2245,"_16":42,"_360":2253},"https://draft.dev/learn/aeo-geo-for-dev-tools#what-matters-most",{"_30":2255,"_16":272,"_273":2256,"_281":2261,"_283":487},"9761fbec6683",[2257],{"_30":2258,"_16":277,"_278":2259,"_150":2260},"404c8ebab2cd",[389],"4. Merge Redundant Content",[],{"_30":2263,"_16":272,"_273":2264,"_281":2269,"_283":284},"738f2387772f",[2265],{"_30":2266,"_16":277,"_278":2267,"_150":2268},"789792378c7d",[],"Another problem we see clients with large content libraries run into is having multiple versions of the same content spread across their website and blog. Sometimes it’s redundant comparison pages or landing pages, and other times, they’ve written four blog posts about the same core topic. Taking a bit of time to merge redundant content and redirect the remaining URLs can help ensure crawlers get a “single source of truth” for each idea on your site, ensuring their information is accurate and consistent.",[],{"_30":2271,"_16":272,"_273":2272,"_281":2277,"_283":487},"cae5b1a39f62",[2273],{"_30":2274,"_16":277,"_278":2275,"_150":2276},"86c00e79ccc1",[389],"5. Remove and Redirect Irrelevant Content",[],{"_30":2279,"_16":272,"_273":2280,"_281":2285,"_283":284},"15b6a448855a",[2281],{"_30":2282,"_16":277,"_278":2283,"_150":2284},"fd7a73f59e80",[],"There are times when the easiest way to clean up your content is to simply unpublish it. This happens when features are no longer relevant, you end support for certain technology, or the opinions expressed are no longer the ones you hold.",[],{"_30":2287,"_16":272,"_273":2288,"_281":2293,"_283":284},"51a326926f76",[2289],{"_30":2290,"_16":277,"_278":2291,"_150":2292},"792b37d7fbb3",[],"Removing irrelevant or inaccurate content ensures that LLMs are less likely to feed users inaccurate or out of date information. Just make sure you redirect any of the URLs so you don’t lose backlinks or cause an increase in 404 pages.",[],{"_30":2295,"_16":272,"_273":2296,"_281":2301,"_283":487},"bd92685d1b7f",[2297],{"_30":2298,"_16":277,"_278":2299,"_150":2300},"7de5c389050c",[389],"6. Update Published Dates and Re-Promote",[],{"_30":2303,"_16":272,"_273":2304,"_281":2309,"_283":284},"4772ec0d877c",[2305],{"_30":2306,"_16":277,"_278":2307,"_150":2308},"f9f1283850cd",[],"Finally, update the “published date” on each piece and re-promote it across your social and syndication channels if appropriate. A lot of teams miss this, but you’re giving this content a new lease on life, so you might as well increase its chances of getting found by telling people about it.",[],{"_30":2311,"_16":272,"_273":2312,"_281":2317,"_283":405},"41bda4dc6dbb",[2313],{"_30":2314,"_16":277,"_278":2315,"_150":2316},"ed9a47389626",[389],"Results You Can Expect",[],{"_30":2319,"_16":272,"_273":2320,"_281":2325,"_283":284},"24839597fb09",[2321],{"_30":2322,"_16":277,"_278":2323,"_150":2324},"1e0509fb045f",[],"As of this writing, we’ve worked with clients to update a lot of content, but the results are still variable, leading me to believe that there’s more to learn here. Some consistent trends have emerged though:",[],{"_30":2327,"_16":272,"_273":2328,"_281":2337,"_283":284},"3d868883cc74",[2329,2333],{"_30":2330,"_16":277,"_278":2331,"_150":2332},"748f0ac658f9",[389],"Timeline for Results",{"_30":2334,"_16":277,"_278":2335,"_150":2336},"fbd12fe88231",[],"Most content should see improvements in search or LLM appearances within 2-4 weeks as search engines recrawl and reindex the updated content. I’ve seen many pieces receive 200-400% traffic and citation increases within the first quarter post-refresh, so again, it’s worth doing for your high-value content.",[],{"_30":2339,"_16":272,"_273":2340,"_281":2349,"_283":284},"4c754fe86945",[2341,2345],{"_30":2342,"_16":277,"_278":2343,"_150":2344},"4b7739381815",[389],"Comparison to New Content",{"_30":2346,"_16":277,"_278":2347,"_150":2348},"3775196bbda7",[],"New content can take a couple months to mature and start driving traffic, but refreshes often show results in a couple weeks. This depends of course on the volume of LLM/search traffic to the piece, but it makes sense as this content gets the benefit of any existing authority, backlinks, and indexed URLs.",[],{"_30":2351,"_16":272,"_273":2352,"_281":2357,"_283":405},"c07894efb9a4",[2353],{"_30":2354,"_16":277,"_278":2355,"_150":2356},"f92e21b0f843",[389],"Getting Started With GEO Content Refreshes",[],{"_30":2359,"_16":272,"_273":2360,"_281":2365,"_283":284},"06690fb6c882",[2361],{"_30":2362,"_16":277,"_278":2363,"_150":2364},"7704be329e07",[],"If you've already invested in content marketing, you're ahead of the game. AEO/GEO isn't about reinventing the wheel, it's about optimizing your content strategy for the way developers are using AI tools and making decisions today.",[],{"_30":2367,"_16":272,"_273":2368,"_281":2373,"_283":284},"718b43de3a7b",[2369],{"_30":2370,"_16":277,"_278":2371,"_150":2372},"91fcfebe436f",[],"So here's what you should do:",[],{"_30":2375,"_16":272,"_273":2376,"_496":497,"_498":2385,"_281":2386,"_283":284},"be10cf8c1c9a",[2377,2381],{"_30":2378,"_16":277,"_278":2379,"_150":2380},"2fb53f5900c4",[389],"Keep creating high-quality, technically helpful content.",{"_30":2382,"_16":277,"_278":2383,"_150":2384},"4502b850e39a",[]," The fundamentals haven't changed, you still need to produce content that actually helps developers solve problems.","number",[],{"_30":2388,"_16":272,"_273":2389,"_496":497,"_498":2385,"_281":2398,"_283":284},"9175806feb83",[2390,2394],{"_30":2391,"_16":277,"_278":2392,"_150":2393},"58722f57233d",[389],"Update your content regularly.",{"_30":2395,"_16":277,"_278":2396,"_150":2397},"d936756197e9",[]," Especially tutorials and documentation. Aim for at least annual refreshes of your best-performing content.",[],{"_30":2400,"_16":272,"_273":2401,"_496":497,"_498":2385,"_281":2410,"_283":284},"3bca8051ff30",[2402,2406],{"_30":2403,"_16":277,"_278":2404,"_150":2405},"623d747f41c5",[389],"Optimize structure and metadata across your content.",{"_30":2407,"_16":277,"_278":2408,"_150":2409},"97c76876a44a",[]," Make sure your posts are skimmable, well-structured, and include proper schema markup.",[],{"_30":2412,"_16":272,"_273":2413,"_496":497,"_498":2385,"_281":2431,"_283":284},"962074b4e957",[2414,2418,2422,2427],{"_30":2415,"_16":277,"_278":2416,"_150":2417},"a8f8ef88f59e",[389],"Build brand awareness across multiple platforms.",{"_30":2419,"_16":277,"_278":2420,"_150":2421},"4b5ce188f5b4",[]," Don't just refresh on your blog. Keep an eye on ",{"_30":2423,"_16":277,"_278":2424,"_150":2426},"21f79be847b8",[2425],"7d8d6f6f604d","content syndicated",{"_30":2428,"_16":277,"_278":2429,"_150":2430},"f9a93770c9a5",[]," to Dev.to, Medium, and other developer-focused platforms.",[2432],{"_30":2425,"_16":42,"_360":2433},"https://draft.dev/learn/syndicating-developer-content",{"_30":2435,"_16":272,"_273":2436,"_496":497,"_498":2385,"_281":2445,"_283":284},"be37e0686470",[2437,2441],{"_30":2438,"_16":277,"_278":2439,"_150":2440},"7da4177d0f3d",[389],"Share with niche newsletters and communities.",{"_30":2442,"_16":277,"_278":2443,"_150":2444},"26848667bd9e",[]," Re-promote refreshed content and make sure your communities and any relevant newsletters know about the content.",[],{"_30":2447,"_16":272,"_273":2448,"_281":2462,"_283":284},"ffb7975cde3b",[2449,2453,2458],{"_30":2450,"_16":277,"_278":2451,"_150":2452},"a64ce932e463",[],"Finally, if you ever have questions about SEO, GEO, or refreshing content in developer tools, ",{"_30":2454,"_16":277,"_278":2455,"_150":2457},"4bd2e6aaecc2",[2456],"2d651d4a2237","reach out to me on Linkedin",{"_30":2459,"_16":277,"_278":2460,"_150":2461},"e7f24a59ccbf",[],". I’m happy to help.",[2463],{"_30":2456,"_16":42,"_360":2464},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/karllhughes/",13,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/718f3fa5fd3e25b91652ff78d08d196af126c5e9-1200x630.png","8e646f83-871e-4197-aaa9-898d8a929068","2025-11-04T17:28:00.000Z","refreshing-developer-content-to-maximize-aeo-geo","Refreshing Developer Content to Maximize AEO/GEO","modules","moreFromLibrary",[2474,2476,2478],{"_30":2475,"_113":305,"_16":115},"XXt2seV1RY8v",{"_30":2477,"_113":326,"_16":115},"7bhMCdkYlR7a",{"_30":2479,"_113":944,"_16":115},"UPBLxfi3uqco","outlines",[2482],{"_30":2483,"_16":272,"_273":2484,"_281":2489,"_283":284},"430f81ba5e23",[2485],{"_30":2486,"_16":277,"_278":2487,"_150":2488},"37afa9516110",[],"

From Engineer to Enterprise Leader\n
- Vision and Early Direction
- From Engineer to Company Builder
- Letting Go and Redefining Roles
- Returning to Product and Staying Fearless
- Building Culture and Principles
- Community as Human Connection
- Speaking the Language of Enterprises
- Lessons for Founders
\n

",[],"posterFrame",{"_16":122,"_111":2492},{"_113":2493,"_16":115},"image-138a603fee26100759a13e8a5d87c21ee143d3a4-1920x1080-jpg","2025-10-03T07:10:00.000Z","seo",{"_16":2495,"_21":2497,"_2498":147,"_2499":147,"_2500":280,"_120":2491},"HashiCorp co-founder Mitchell Hashimoto shares how he rewired his mindset to grow from open source engineer to enterprise leader.","nofollow","noindex","OGdescription","slideDeck",{"_16":310,"_2503":2504},"current","from-engineer-to-enterprise-leader","speakers","speakersWithOrg",[2508,2578],{"_30":2509,"_16":2510,"_2511":-5,"_2512":2513},"86e451f8ee24","speaker","organization","person",{"_11":2514,"_13":2515,"_14":2516,"_127":2517,"_16":2512,"_17":2520,"_2521":2522,"_2531":147,"_2532":2533,"_2511":2534,"_2560":2561,"_2564":2565,"_2495":2566,"_2567":2568,"_2577":147},"2022-08-10T22:14:06Z","35bacbc2-b51c-4d46-bbb6-9c2e37f09601","0B0sCzJ8ywifPyVwtbGQIR",{"_129":2518},{"_131":2515,"_132":2519},"410YivtbVgNW6RgQxPPFD1","2025-08-19T13:26:33Z","bio",[2523],{"_30":2524,"_16":272,"_273":2525,"_281":2530,"_283":284},"87c2d5b867a0",[2526],{"_30":2527,"_16":277,"_278":2528,"_150":2529},"59c1843a6ab30",[],"Mitchell Hashimoto is Co-Founder of HashiCorp. Mitchell’s held both the CEO and CTO position at HashiCorp and is widely recognized as the creator of Vagrant, Packer, Serf, Consul, Terraform, Vault, and Nomad – a set of tools that help global companies provision, secure, connect, and run infrastructure for any application.",[],"generate","name","Mitchell Hashimoto",{"_11":2535,"_13":2536,"_14":2537,"_16":2511,"_17":2535,"_2538":2539,"_2531":147,"_2532":2556,"_2557":147,"_2495":2558},"2022-08-04T23:35:35Z","4354e06e-4dcc-402e-84c8-a72d1bcfb127","T2hc0DmC9WuoGWjQu4rSeh","about",[2540,2548],{"_30":2541,"_16":272,"_273":2542,"_281":2547,"_283":284},"a954cb3b9d0f",[2543],{"_30":2544,"_16":277,"_278":2545,"_150":2546},"b7d4055da2ef0",[],"Solve your most important cloud infrastructure challenges\nThousands of companies use HashiCorp to provision, secure, connect, and run cloud infrastructure for their most important applications.",[],{"_30":2549,"_16":272,"_273":2550,"_281":2555,"_283":284},"25665e812b20",[2551],{"_30":2552,"_16":277,"_278":2553,"_150":2554},"ec2432ea286b0",[],"Our tools are standardized across the ecosystem, used by DevOps practitioners around the world, and trusted by enterprises everywhere.",[],"HashiCorp","portfolioCompany",{"_16":2495,"_21":2559,"_2498":147,"_2499":147,"_25":2556},"Solve your most important cloud infrastructure challenges\nThousands of companies use HashiCorp to provision, secure, connect, and run cloud infrastructure for their most important applications.\n\nOur tools are standardized across the ecosystem, used by DevOps practitioners around the world, and trusted by enterprises everywhere.","photo",{"_16":110,"_366":2533,"_111":2562,"_372":2533},{"_113":2563,"_16":115},"image-584d130b14a31dc57a14458e513551acd02464fc-400x400-jpg","position","Co-Founder",{"_16":2495,"_21":2529,"_2498":147,"_2499":147,"_25":2533},"socials",[2569,2573],{"_30":2570,"_16":104,"_42":2571,"_2532":2572},"ea763ea6ce04","https://twitter.com/mitchellh","twitter",{"_30":2574,"_16":104,"_42":2575,"_2532":2576},"0507a4e14b5f","https://www.linkedin.com/in/mitchellh","linkedin","teamMember",{"_30":2579,"_16":2510,"_2511":-5,"_2512":2580},"5d0827b0c6ef",{"_11":2581,"_13":2582,"_14":2583,"_16":2512,"_17":2584,"_2531":147,"_2532":2585,"_2511":2586,"_2591":147,"_2560":2592,"_2495":2595,"_2577":147},"2025-07-18T21:22:16Z","e3e0c81e-cf9c-40d1-a6f4-15c32ae4661b","vb16qAEajAm2Opvf41Y50u","2025-08-13T22:47:36Z","Jana Iris",{"_11":2587,"_13":2588,"_14":15,"_16":2511,"_17":18,"_2531":147,"_2532":2589,"_2557":147,"_2495":2590},"2025-07-18T21:22:54Z","ff6940d8-33b5-495e-8ecc-d78dbde54c24","TQ 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Leader","transcript",[2643,2671,2712,2742,2749,2757,2764,2799,2829,2869,2919,2960,3000,3040,3075,3082,3090,3097,3132,3172,3212,3262,3302,3332,3356,3370,3404,3411,3419,3426,3470,3490,3541,3555,3589,3639,3669,3719,3779,3809,3853,3903,3910,3918,3925,3969,4019,4063,4107,4147,4207,4237,4288,4328,4372,4416,4446,4477,4511,4525,4539,4546,4554,4561,4605,4645,4685,4725,4749,4793,4827,4857,4864,4872,4879,4933,4983,5023,5073,5103,5163,5193,5224,5274,5294,5308,5322,5366,5396,5420,5470,5500,5514,5528,5542,5576,5626,5657,5687,5711,5755,5795,5845,5886,5936,5970,5984,5991,5999,6006,6050,6094,6124,6154,6194,6234,6284,6314,6344,6374,6408,6438,6482,6512,6562,6622,6662,6702,6733,6747,6781,6841,6871,6911,6971,6981,6988,6996,7003,7027,7071,7101,7132,7172],{"_30":2644,"_16":272,"_273":2645,"_281":2664,"_283":284},"540f535e3259",[2646,2651,2655,2659],{"_30":2647,"_16":277,"_278":2648,"_150":2650},"43340c19f838",[2649,389],"9ce8849","Jana Iris:",{"_30":2652,"_16":277,"_278":2653,"_150":2654},"6864a62bd1e4",[2649]," Mitchell and I go way back and so this is really special. I'm curious, I just want to gauge the",{"_30":2656,"_16":277,"_278":2657,"_150":2658},"6cf0a89f43b1",[]," ",{"_30":2660,"_16":277,"_278":2661,"_150":2663},"e1590a9cc64e",[2662],"371c8a2","audience. How many of you have used a product, a HashiCorp product that Mitchell has built?",[2665,2669],{"_30":2649,"_16":2666,"_2667":2668},"timestamp","time","00:00:03.040",{"_30":2662,"_16":2666,"_2667":2670},"00:00:07.840",{"_30":2672,"_16":272,"_273":2673,"_281":2703,"_283":284},"73ec67d5a185",[2674,2679,2682,2687,2690,2695,2698],{"_30":2675,"_16":277,"_278":2676,"_150":2678},"a2bc61eca416",[2677],"d804d3e","Wow. Yeah. Again, I'm Jana. I was lucky enough to start working with Mitchell and",{"_30":2680,"_16":277,"_278":2681,"_150":2658},"e28804af4dc3",[],{"_30":2683,"_16":277,"_278":2684,"_150":2686},"1f1d4fda1a75",[2685],"128ed37","HashiCorp pretty early. I was doing community so I was able to see a lot of the things.",{"_30":2688,"_16":277,"_278":2689,"_150":2658},"73b0ebe58454",[],{"_30":2691,"_16":277,"_278":2692,"_150":2694},"4d27d2b3228d",[2693],"03e63f7","But something that just really impressed me, and I think impressed a lot of us, is you and",{"_30":2696,"_16":277,"_278":2697,"_150":2658},"af087f4610d5",[],{"_30":2699,"_16":277,"_278":2700,"_150":2702},"36157a255533",[2701],"5921684","Armon Dadgar were such product visionaries.",[2704,2706,2708,2710],{"_30":2677,"_16":2666,"_2667":2705},"00:00:17.040",{"_30":2685,"_16":2666,"_2667":2707},"00:00:22.000",{"_30":2693,"_16":2666,"_2667":2709},"00:00:27.600",{"_30":2701,"_16":2666,"_2667":2711},"00:00:31.980",{"_30":2713,"_16":272,"_273":2714,"_281":2736,"_283":284},"f442fab8d7db",[2715,2720,2723,2728,2731],{"_30":2716,"_16":277,"_278":2717,"_150":2719},"9dd31b30766e",[2718],"286a46c","Even when we were 10 or 20 people, we already had",{"_30":2721,"_16":277,"_278":2722,"_150":2658},"46998e4790fd",[],{"_30":2724,"_16":277,"_278":2725,"_150":2727},"2d895378ecc3",[2726],"9eed064","six open source projects. We launched Nomad and Otto. How did you already have a view of the world",{"_30":2729,"_16":277,"_278":2730,"_150":2658},"311b49f9ba23",[],{"_30":2732,"_16":277,"_278":2733,"_150":2735},"39bae650a38a",[2734],"ce3970e","back then?",[2737,2738,2740],{"_30":2718,"_16":2666,"_2667":2711},{"_30":2726,"_16":2666,"_2667":2739},"00:00:39.580",{"_30":2734,"_16":2666,"_2667":2741},"00:00:46.660",{"_30":2743,"_16":272,"_273":2744,"_281":2748,"_283":284},"8d077ab10dd7",[2745],{"_30":2746,"_16":277,"_278":2747,"_150":1039},"5fc1c1b6bdac",[],[],{"_30":2750,"_16":272,"_273":2751,"_281":2756,"_283":405},"bd7f43fad4fe",[2752],{"_30":2753,"_16":277,"_278":2754,"_150":2755},"4d7657be9560",[],"Vision and Early Direction",[],{"_30":2758,"_16":272,"_273":2759,"_281":2763,"_283":284},"5885574c4d67",[2760],{"_30":2761,"_16":277,"_278":2762,"_150":1039},"cc2afb84defb",[],[],{"_30":2765,"_16":272,"_273":2766,"_281":2792,"_283":284},"935dcc861c56",[2767,2772,2776,2779,2784,2787],{"_30":2768,"_16":277,"_278":2769,"_150":2771},"d235adf2abca",[2770,389],"b18b4ef","Mitchell Hashimoto:",{"_30":2773,"_16":277,"_278":2774,"_150":2775},"8db062683416",[2770]," And I think that's important for a lot of founders. We took this perspective when we started",{"_30":2777,"_16":277,"_278":2778,"_150":2658},"f3480c792925",[],{"_30":2780,"_16":277,"_278":2781,"_150":2783},"a418ae14a368",[2782],"e2ae11c","HashiCorp, which is that there was a certain trend that we saw the world moving to without us,",{"_30":2785,"_16":277,"_278":2786,"_150":2658},"95e9f327cf50",[],{"_30":2788,"_16":277,"_278":2789,"_150":2791},"09e954b160d7",[2790],"b43b290","which was cloud.",[2793,2795,2797],{"_30":2770,"_16":2666,"_2667":2794},"00:00:47.500",{"_30":2782,"_16":2666,"_2667":2796},"00:00:51.660",{"_30":2790,"_16":2666,"_2667":2798},"00:00:56.980",{"_30":2800,"_16":272,"_273":2801,"_281":2823,"_283":284},"ac88b2a2bcac",[2802,2807,2810,2815,2818],{"_30":2803,"_16":277,"_278":2804,"_150":2806},"c7fb7ecd0164",[2805],"7517cac","And it's funny to say that now because it's a very obvious, accepted",{"_30":2808,"_16":277,"_278":2809,"_150":2658},"2008821ef5c3",[],{"_30":2811,"_16":277,"_278":2812,"_150":2814},"476f83d01098",[2813],"14cc96b","thing, but it was very much, we had some VC meetings then that were like, \"maybe cloud won't work",{"_30":2816,"_16":277,"_278":2817,"_150":2658},"94c41d943e16",[],{"_30":2819,"_16":277,"_278":2820,"_150":2822},"a58563ccd420",[2821],"d191abd","out.\" But that was the trend that was happening without us.",[2824,2825,2827],{"_30":2805,"_16":2666,"_2667":2798},{"_30":2813,"_16":2666,"_2667":2826},"00:01:00.960",{"_30":2821,"_16":2666,"_2667":2828},"00:01:05.760",{"_30":2830,"_16":272,"_273":2831,"_281":2861,"_283":284},"5100c9cd494b",[2832,2837,2840,2845,2848,2853,2856],{"_30":2833,"_16":277,"_278":2834,"_150":2836},"d71150db6ab4",[2835],"5b6ebff","And then we decided we had",{"_30":2838,"_16":277,"_278":2839,"_150":2658},"7b06f38b7b5c",[],{"_30":2841,"_16":277,"_278":2842,"_150":2844},"1f9fb1f331e4",[2843],"2cd1dff","this worldview of how people would interact with cloud and we were going to build for that worldview",{"_30":2846,"_16":277,"_278":2847,"_150":2658},"1b47ccaee91d",[],{"_30":2849,"_16":277,"_278":2850,"_150":2852},"7023bb2b47b6",[2851],"de82ba3","and either convince the world to wrap around that to some extent, you know, not like wholly, but",{"_30":2854,"_16":277,"_278":2855,"_150":2658},"e514559c5e59",[],{"_30":2857,"_16":277,"_278":2858,"_150":2860},"062b853d4580",[2859],"61f90ad","directionally, or we would rather fail.",[2862,2863,2865,2867],{"_30":2835,"_16":2666,"_2667":2828},{"_30":2843,"_16":2666,"_2667":2864},"00:01:11.160",{"_30":2851,"_16":2666,"_2667":2866},"00:01:17.000",{"_30":2859,"_16":2666,"_2667":2868},"00:01:23.640",{"_30":2870,"_16":272,"_273":2871,"_281":2909,"_283":284},"16789f871b5b",[2872,2877,2880,2885,2888,2893,2896,2901,2904],{"_30":2873,"_16":277,"_278":2874,"_150":2876},"823991f972de",[2875],"931b8e0","And I think that that was based actually on an",{"_30":2878,"_16":277,"_278":2879,"_150":2658},"f5b5facc8c29",[],{"_30":2881,"_16":277,"_278":2882,"_150":2884},"f6ed47061c6f",[2883],"0d6e280","experience that Armon and I both had in college where of all people, for all his",{"_30":2886,"_16":277,"_278":2887,"_150":2658},"c20ae3f6c92c",[],{"_30":2889,"_16":277,"_278":2890,"_150":2892},"f7be267d3aad",[2891],"9cd42d6","successes and faults, we watched this talk by Steve Ballmer, who came and visited us. And he talked about",{"_30":2894,"_16":277,"_278":2895,"_150":2658},"a9dbc1ab5fc1",[],{"_30":2897,"_16":277,"_278":2898,"_150":2900},"bbe14cc1e508",[2899],"77b2913","how it's better to have a singular direction and move in that direction and fail than to move in a",{"_30":2902,"_16":277,"_278":2903,"_150":2658},"9fd214d206b1",[],{"_30":2905,"_16":277,"_278":2906,"_150":2908},"336b480e8d81",[2907],"5d25562","bunch of different directions and look down at your feet and realize you didn't move anywhere.",[2910,2911,2913,2915,2917],{"_30":2875,"_16":2666,"_2667":2868},{"_30":2883,"_16":2666,"_2667":2912},"00:01:30.470",{"_30":2891,"_16":2666,"_2667":2914},"00:01:37.150",{"_30":2899,"_16":2666,"_2667":2916},"00:01:41.790",{"_30":2907,"_16":2666,"_2667":2918},"00:01:47.710",{"_30":2920,"_16":272,"_273":2921,"_281":2951,"_283":284},"1f63eebb45a8",[2922,2927,2930,2935,2938,2943,2946],{"_30":2923,"_16":277,"_278":2924,"_150":2926},"3b364b28d97a",[2925],"23e5ec8","We decided our singular direction is cloud, multi-cloud, infrastructure as code, all these",{"_30":2928,"_16":277,"_278":2929,"_150":2658},"d72bf753ac1b",[],{"_30":2931,"_16":277,"_278":2932,"_150":2934},"43ad1dc15780",[2933],"aaee325","little things that became buzzwords and we just tried to push towards that. So we had this very",{"_30":2936,"_16":277,"_278":2937,"_150":2658},"9720fddced11",[],{"_30":2939,"_16":277,"_278":2940,"_150":2942},"e5cd4c6bb30f",[2941],"631416b","fixed roadmap. We had to adapt to things like Docker that didn't exist when we started",{"_30":2944,"_16":277,"_278":2945,"_150":2658},"7cfb5d3010f6",[],{"_30":2947,"_16":277,"_278":2948,"_150":2950},"5b4e0c4d19e8",[2949],"f0a12f9","the company and Kubernetes eventually popped up and things like that.",[2952,2954,2956,2958],{"_30":2925,"_16":2666,"_2667":2953},"00:01:51.990",{"_30":2933,"_16":2666,"_2667":2955},"00:01:57.040",{"_30":2941,"_16":2666,"_2667":2957},"00:02:02.720",{"_30":2949,"_16":2666,"_2667":2959},"00:02:08.720",{"_30":2961,"_16":272,"_273":2962,"_281":2992,"_283":284},"f8ccb8fae787",[2963,2968,2971,2976,2979,2984,2987],{"_30":2964,"_16":277,"_278":2965,"_150":2967},"5fc47361e4cd",[2966],"2c87989","So there was obviously",{"_30":2969,"_16":277,"_278":2970,"_150":2658},"5fe8a035fdec",[],{"_30":2972,"_16":277,"_278":2973,"_150":2975},"d78c741a21ca",[2974],"2240df6","adaptations and pivoting that had to happen at various points, but the core fundamental",{"_30":2977,"_16":277,"_278":2978,"_150":2658},"ca868f0527bd",[],{"_30":2980,"_16":277,"_278":2981,"_150":2983},"9b67d24a2798",[2982],"8519c07","direction we wanted to head didn't change. And I think that's the thing where I say the",{"_30":2985,"_16":277,"_278":2986,"_150":2658},"e539dd8089c0",[],{"_30":2988,"_16":277,"_278":2989,"_150":2991},"aee21b6f65a8",[2990],"0339650","world does have to move with you to a certain extent.",[2993,2994,2996,2998],{"_30":2966,"_16":2666,"_2667":2959},{"_30":2974,"_16":2666,"_2667":2995},"00:02:12.600",{"_30":2982,"_16":2666,"_2667":2997},"00:02:17.120",{"_30":2990,"_16":2666,"_2667":2999},"00:02:23.330",{"_30":3001,"_16":272,"_273":3002,"_281":3032,"_283":704},"6b6e62e1b6bf",[3003,3008,3011,3016,3019,3024,3027],{"_30":3004,"_16":277,"_278":3005,"_150":3007},"d41c0066803e",[3006],"3b7baf9","If the world went a different direction, we",{"_30":3009,"_16":277,"_278":3010,"_150":2658},"2655b3beb2f0",[],{"_30":3012,"_16":277,"_278":3013,"_150":3015},"20c8f35dcb02",[3014],"73618f1","would have just failed. Even if we thought our ideas were good. That happens all the time to",{"_30":3017,"_16":277,"_278":3018,"_150":2658},"76e36ae7eba6",[],{"_30":3020,"_16":277,"_278":3021,"_150":3023},"35af4cc9c281",[3022],"a4f45c7","founders. But we got lucky that the world headed in that direction. And I believe we built",{"_30":3025,"_16":277,"_278":3026,"_150":2658},"74dcce16807e",[],{"_30":3028,"_16":277,"_278":3029,"_150":3031},"962895ac2cd3",[3030],"0ab5e45","a lot of good products that worked out.",[3033,3034,3036,3038],{"_30":3006,"_16":2666,"_2667":2999},{"_30":3014,"_16":2666,"_2667":3035},"00:02:27.370",{"_30":3022,"_16":2666,"_2667":3037},"00:02:32.370",{"_30":3030,"_16":2666,"_2667":3039},"00:02:38.930",{"_30":3041,"_16":272,"_273":3042,"_281":3068,"_283":284},"faf9d5dc23a1",[3043,3048,3052,3055,3060,3063],{"_30":3044,"_16":277,"_278":3045,"_150":3047},"ab6c5e90198d",[3046,389],"ba2be67","Jana:",{"_30":3049,"_16":277,"_278":3050,"_150":3051},"3e281bc4b79f",[3046]," Yeah, that's wonderful. You're such a hacker, a technologist. You're just",{"_30":3053,"_16":277,"_278":3054,"_150":2658},"32a7f3574ede",[],{"_30":3056,"_16":277,"_278":3057,"_150":3059},"3b0f3d030a79",[3058],"f9a8760","an engineer at heart. As the company started growing, how did you rewire your",{"_30":3061,"_16":277,"_278":3062,"_150":2658},"ad5026bcf72b",[],{"_30":3064,"_16":277,"_278":3065,"_150":3067},"25babb7b2ec4",[3066],"ddbadfd","brain and what were some lessons that you learned?",[3069,3071,3073],{"_30":3046,"_16":2666,"_2667":3070},"00:02:42.730",{"_30":3058,"_16":2666,"_2667":3072},"00:02:48.410",{"_30":3066,"_16":2666,"_2667":3074},"00:02:53.570",{"_30":3076,"_16":272,"_273":3077,"_281":3081,"_283":284},"1c4af7d38052",[3078],{"_30":3079,"_16":277,"_278":3080,"_150":1039},"0d5becd18547",[],[],{"_30":3083,"_16":272,"_273":3084,"_281":3089,"_283":405},"fe208524c34b",[3085],{"_30":3086,"_16":277,"_278":3087,"_150":3088},"320f6ac30a52",[],"From Engineer to Company Builder",[],{"_30":3091,"_16":272,"_273":3092,"_281":3096,"_283":284},"61c6828ecbbb",[3093],{"_30":3094,"_16":277,"_278":3095,"_150":1039},"d49a89b47c08",[],[],{"_30":3098,"_16":272,"_273":3099,"_281":3125,"_283":284},"880afecca345",[3100,3105,3109,3112,3117,3120],{"_30":3101,"_16":277,"_278":3102,"_150":3104},"69b7d11f88b2",[3103,389],"1c06a9b","Mitchell:",{"_30":3106,"_16":277,"_278":3107,"_150":3108},"05ece4e88e4e",[3103]," Yeah, well, first you stop coding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Yeah, that'd",{"_30":3110,"_16":277,"_278":3111,"_150":2658},"3c0246eaeb7a",[],{"_30":3113,"_16":277,"_278":3114,"_150":3116},"491533e8b98e",[3115],"2bd7269","be funny. No, no, no, no. I think what's really important for technical founders, the aha for me",{"_30":3118,"_16":277,"_278":3119,"_150":2658},"f6aaed14d55f",[],{"_30":3121,"_16":277,"_278":3122,"_150":3124},"40995a6fd09f",[3123],"2beb2c5","was realizing, you know, I viewed software as my tool to solve all problems.",[3126,3128,3130],{"_30":3103,"_16":2666,"_2667":3127},"00:02:57.250",{"_30":3115,"_16":2666,"_2667":3129},"00:03:01.770",{"_30":3123,"_16":2666,"_2667":3131},"00:03:07.970",{"_30":3133,"_16":272,"_273":3134,"_281":3164,"_283":284},"7a33c7f92ed6",[3135,3140,3143,3148,3151,3156,3159],{"_30":3136,"_16":277,"_278":3137,"_150":3139},"387a23717072",[3138],"9df1a65","There's a couple",{"_30":3141,"_16":277,"_278":3142,"_150":2658},"9a9f2574dd53",[],{"_30":3144,"_16":277,"_278":3145,"_150":3147},"3f7a2a63c73d",[3146],"4314a2d","points here, that one and you know, a lot of problems are human and not technical. And so there",{"_30":3149,"_16":277,"_278":3150,"_150":2658},"a1240a91d600",[],{"_30":3152,"_16":277,"_278":3153,"_150":3155},"1c19bd74045b",[3154],"c4475e3","is a lot that you have to solve that way. But as an engineer, you could look at them as engineering",{"_30":3157,"_16":277,"_278":3158,"_150":2658},"9ac8365a5164",[],{"_30":3160,"_16":277,"_278":3161,"_150":3163},"b725912a8106",[3162],"47b44da","problems.",[3165,3166,3168,3170],{"_30":3138,"_16":2666,"_2667":3131},{"_30":3146,"_16":2666,"_2667":3167},"00:03:16.000",{"_30":3154,"_16":2666,"_2667":3169},"00:03:21.760",{"_30":3162,"_16":2666,"_2667":3171},"00:03:27.280",{"_30":3173,"_16":272,"_273":3174,"_281":3204,"_283":284},"b93779498c44",[3175,3180,3183,3188,3191,3196,3199],{"_30":3176,"_16":277,"_278":3177,"_150":3179},"d331350cd189",[3178],"df6dc00","So for example, a company is a machine. You are engineering a machine. The",{"_30":3181,"_16":277,"_278":3182,"_150":2658},"2cb25d005676",[],{"_30":3184,"_16":277,"_278":3185,"_150":3187},"d5b060118d5b",[3186],"17d5f63","machine in the VC capital sense is a money machine. An investor puts in a dollar",{"_30":3189,"_16":277,"_278":3190,"_150":2658},"37ed274e58d4",[],{"_30":3192,"_16":277,"_278":3193,"_150":3195},"bf2a2175df08",[3194],"d84bac5","and gets whatever $1.15 out the other side. That's like the 10,000, like you're in space, view of",{"_30":3197,"_16":277,"_278":3198,"_150":2658},"d8570b8404c3",[],{"_30":3200,"_16":277,"_278":3201,"_150":3203},"63da10370b0f",[3202],"fe6ab62","what a company is, but it is a machine.",[3205,3206,3208,3210],{"_30":3178,"_16":2666,"_2667":3171},{"_30":3186,"_16":2666,"_2667":3207},"00:03:34.840",{"_30":3194,"_16":2666,"_2667":3209},"00:03:42.410",{"_30":3202,"_16":2666,"_2667":3211},"00:03:48.490",{"_30":3213,"_16":272,"_273":3214,"_281":3252,"_283":284},"6c0e5fd0e6b5",[3215,3220,3223,3228,3231,3236,3239,3244,3247],{"_30":3216,"_16":277,"_278":3217,"_150":3219},"c203e887ae06",[3218],"9a18f09","And every role in org and how you build your company is,",{"_30":3221,"_16":277,"_278":3222,"_150":2658},"6b14f564f58c",[],{"_30":3224,"_16":277,"_278":3225,"_150":3227},"32bf0af5fb98",[3226],"d07e846","I started to view it as, \"How does data flow through the machine?\" When a",{"_30":3229,"_16":277,"_278":3230,"_150":2658},"be1878c9497c",[],{"_30":3232,"_16":277,"_278":3233,"_150":3235},"7accac5ec9c6",[3234],"b7680fc","customer hits a website, how does that flow through the machine? When an engineer or",{"_30":3237,"_16":277,"_278":3238,"_150":2658},"3922a2e0765e",[],{"_30":3240,"_16":277,"_278":3241,"_150":3243},"09e334a0e1dc",[3242],"932acf8","product manager has an idea for a feature, how does that flow through the machine and how does that",{"_30":3245,"_16":277,"_278":3246,"_150":2658},"9cdad25e68c4",[],{"_30":3248,"_16":277,"_278":3249,"_150":3251},"324cb6b40110",[3250],"2adde53","ultimately reach a customer's infrastructure?",[3253,3254,3256,3258,3260],{"_30":3218,"_16":2666,"_2667":3211},{"_30":3226,"_16":2666,"_2667":3255},"00:03:56.330",{"_30":3234,"_16":2666,"_2667":3257},"00:04:02.130",{"_30":3242,"_16":2666,"_2667":3259},"00:04:07.500",{"_30":3250,"_16":2666,"_2667":3261},"00:04:11.060",{"_30":3263,"_16":272,"_273":3264,"_281":3294,"_283":284},"e1caa29abd5f",[3265,3270,3273,3278,3281,3286,3289],{"_30":3266,"_16":277,"_278":3267,"_150":3269},"8b4d748af825",[3268],"c958fcb","We like to map it out that way.",{"_30":3271,"_16":277,"_278":3272,"_150":2658},"bb7d7517d82a",[],{"_30":3274,"_16":277,"_278":3275,"_150":3277},"41e076e8850a",[3276],"2fb043d","And then it becomes, at least for me, it became more fun because I love engineering. And then I was",{"_30":3279,"_16":277,"_278":3280,"_150":2658},"b136b5591daf",[],{"_30":3282,"_16":277,"_278":3283,"_150":3285},"f53ddc6c9299",[3284],"0efaa4e","like, \"oh, I'm just engineering a people machine.\" And I started to compartmentalize various",{"_30":3287,"_16":277,"_278":3288,"_150":2658},"fd34002636c6",[],{"_30":3290,"_16":277,"_278":3291,"_150":3293},"6ba8748139dc",[3292],"3b40e53","problems that way.",[3295,3296,3298,3300],{"_30":3268,"_16":2666,"_2667":3261},{"_30":3276,"_16":2666,"_2667":3297},"00:04:18.220",{"_30":3284,"_16":2666,"_2667":3299},"00:04:22.860",{"_30":3292,"_16":2666,"_2667":3301},"00:04:28.980",{"_30":3303,"_16":272,"_273":3304,"_281":3326,"_283":704},"1f1c71541ba0",[3305,3310,3313,3318,3321],{"_30":3306,"_16":277,"_278":3307,"_150":3309},"6411d52f0cc4",[3308],"8f14e2e","So I think it's important to realize that a",{"_30":3311,"_16":277,"_278":3312,"_150":2658},"db1ab1e2b263",[],{"_30":3314,"_16":277,"_278":3315,"_150":3317},"b38b56e20d7d",[3316],"d74c749","lot of those problems can't be solved with software and so you have to really go in and do the",{"_30":3319,"_16":277,"_278":3320,"_150":2658},"d37713435f1d",[],{"_30":3322,"_16":277,"_278":3323,"_150":3325},"2cdb2230d526",[3324],"3710cba","non-technical work in order to make that happen.",[3327,3328,3330],{"_30":3308,"_16":2666,"_2667":3301},{"_30":3316,"_16":2666,"_2667":3329},"00:04:34.490",{"_30":3324,"_16":2666,"_2667":3331},"00:04:39.810",{"_30":3333,"_16":272,"_273":3334,"_281":3351,"_283":284},"07e9199cb627",[3335,3339,3343,3346],{"_30":3336,"_16":277,"_278":3337,"_150":3047},"194412d0777c",[3338,389],"d88c871",{"_30":3340,"_16":277,"_278":3341,"_150":3342},"e146fb7e324d",[3338]," That's really beautifully said. And again, I got to experience those different",{"_30":3344,"_16":277,"_278":3345,"_150":2658},"d727e0083a2f",[],{"_30":3347,"_16":277,"_278":3348,"_150":3350},"d1204387315f",[3349],"b2e9336","shifts that you and Armon made throughout that and how you all matured.",[3352,3354],{"_30":3338,"_16":2666,"_2667":3353},"00:04:43.610",{"_30":3349,"_16":2666,"_2667":3355},"00:04:48.370",{"_30":3357,"_16":272,"_273":3358,"_281":3367,"_283":284},"6c1cd7271827",[3359,3363],{"_30":3360,"_16":277,"_278":3361,"_150":3104},"3bc19b5bd661",[3362,389],"d8e9a94",{"_30":3364,"_16":277,"_278":3365,"_150":3366},"f8a917845537",[3362]," We made a lot of broken machines.",[3368],{"_30":3362,"_16":2666,"_2667":3369},"00:04:52.330",{"_30":3371,"_16":272,"_273":3372,"_281":3397,"_283":284},"e69b02337b8d",[3373,3377,3381,3384,3389,3392],{"_30":3374,"_16":277,"_278":3375,"_150":3047},"88871a5a8c24",[3376,389],"ac9838c",{"_30":3378,"_16":277,"_278":3379,"_150":3380},"9957ad6237fd",[3376]," Yeah, exactly. And that's the next thing. Right? During our dry run, you mentioned",{"_30":3382,"_16":277,"_278":3383,"_150":2658},"a40e57595c39",[],{"_30":3385,"_16":277,"_278":3386,"_150":3388},"442d2f0b90f1",[3387],"bcecb2b","grieving some things that you had to let go as a founder. And what were some of those things that",{"_30":3390,"_16":277,"_278":3391,"_150":2658},"1b04d421eba7",[],{"_30":3393,"_16":277,"_278":3394,"_150":3396},"9ebc4500fa21",[3395],"f6f1e52","you had to let go over time as the company grew and scaled?",[3398,3400,3402],{"_30":3376,"_16":2666,"_2667":3399},"00:04:54.170",{"_30":3387,"_16":2666,"_2667":3401},"00:04:59.360",{"_30":3395,"_16":2666,"_2667":3403},"00:05:03.740",{"_30":3405,"_16":272,"_273":3406,"_281":3410,"_283":284},"e64e887c1f99",[3407],{"_30":3408,"_16":277,"_278":3409,"_150":1039},"b0631fe8d4ae",[],[],{"_30":3412,"_16":272,"_273":3413,"_281":3418,"_283":405},"a4f5469ffbdd",[3414],{"_30":3415,"_16":277,"_278":3416,"_150":3417},"1dd2a236de07",[],"Letting Go and Redefining Roles",[],{"_30":3420,"_16":272,"_273":3421,"_281":3425,"_283":284},"38d998be4bf4",[3422],{"_30":3423,"_16":277,"_278":3424,"_150":1039},"abfcaf5c7107",[],[],{"_30":3427,"_16":272,"_273":3428,"_281":3461,"_283":284},"be09c5fc9974",[3429,3433,3437,3440,3445,3448,3453,3456],{"_30":3430,"_16":277,"_278":3431,"_150":3104},"34243971bc69",[3432,389],"16b8135",{"_30":3434,"_16":277,"_278":3435,"_150":3436},"28519a49832e",[3432]," Yeah, one thing Armon and I always did and it worked out was, we did this on a",{"_30":3438,"_16":277,"_278":3439,"_150":2658},"e4c0e663f2e7",[],{"_30":3441,"_16":277,"_278":3442,"_150":3444},"ce0d9de6a664",[3443],"5f900c0","quarterly basis, that's just like an arbitrary choice, is we would look at the company and",{"_30":3446,"_16":277,"_278":3447,"_150":2658},"3b07525b0fb2",[],{"_30":3449,"_16":277,"_278":3450,"_150":3452},"be76a4713fe0",[3451],"9d91f51","look at all the decisions that had happened over the past quarter, the cadence between the meetings,",{"_30":3454,"_16":277,"_278":3455,"_150":2658},"96286519682e",[],{"_30":3457,"_16":277,"_278":3458,"_150":3460},"5084dfe74027",[3459],"60aa606","and we tried to identify where things really slowed down.",[3462,3464,3466,3468],{"_30":3432,"_16":2666,"_2667":3463},"00:05:08.020",{"_30":3443,"_16":2666,"_2667":3465},"00:05:16.140",{"_30":3451,"_16":2666,"_2667":3467},"00:05:21.460",{"_30":3459,"_16":2666,"_2667":3469},"00:05:26.970",{"_30":3471,"_16":272,"_273":3472,"_281":3486,"_283":284},"46b0595d4e89",[3473,3478,3481],{"_30":3474,"_16":277,"_278":3475,"_150":3477},"a7119f7b03d3",[3476],"2799c40","Where,",{"_30":3479,"_16":277,"_278":3480,"_150":2658},"e5677630ed38",[],{"_30":3482,"_16":277,"_278":3483,"_150":3485},"4a45f869f7e9",[3484],"66cb50d","as founders, were we the bottleneck in what was happening? And we'd never wanted to be that.",[3487,3488],{"_30":3476,"_16":2666,"_2667":3469},{"_30":3484,"_16":2666,"_2667":3489},"00:05:31.420",{"_30":3491,"_16":272,"_273":3492,"_281":3530,"_283":704},"fa833014a614",[3493,3498,3501,3506,3509,3514,3517,3522,3525],{"_30":3494,"_16":277,"_278":3495,"_150":3497},"1054c911b6b9",[3496],"a97001d","There's so much for a founder to do, there's so much they're involved in. You want to be",{"_30":3499,"_16":277,"_278":3500,"_150":2658},"79c924926e68",[],{"_30":3502,"_16":277,"_278":3503,"_150":3505},"3663dffcd4ce",[3504],"918131f","able to build this organization of autonomy and trust in order to get things done. But the other",{"_30":3507,"_16":277,"_278":3508,"_150":2658},"e0e3075a562b",[],{"_30":3510,"_16":277,"_278":3511,"_150":3513},"05e21c92d204",[3512],"3a4d84e","side of that coin is that you are yielding control because you're trusting, so you're yielding",{"_30":3515,"_16":277,"_278":3516,"_150":2658},"ba0b8a770573",[],{"_30":3518,"_16":277,"_278":3519,"_150":3521},"b56c4d9dfe33",[3520],"82efac2","control. And that is really hard for me. And so in every aspect of the",{"_30":3523,"_16":277,"_278":3524,"_150":2658},"6fcdf6990e7f",[],{"_30":3526,"_16":277,"_278":3527,"_150":3529},"594101a6eb6a",[3528],"b4698ae","company that happened and it was painful in every aspect of the company.",[3531,3533,3535,3537,3539],{"_30":3496,"_16":2666,"_2667":3532},"00:05:37.290",{"_30":3504,"_16":2666,"_2667":3534},"00:05:41.090",{"_30":3512,"_16":2666,"_2667":3536},"00:05:46.410",{"_30":3520,"_16":2666,"_2667":3538},"00:05:50.530",{"_30":3528,"_16":2666,"_2667":3540},"00:05:56.330",{"_30":3542,"_16":272,"_273":3543,"_281":3552,"_283":284},"1755677b192f",[3544,3548],{"_30":3545,"_16":277,"_278":3546,"_150":3047},"a0c6350ca949",[3547,389],"859c547",{"_30":3549,"_16":277,"_278":3550,"_150":3551},"6abb968f54bb",[3547]," What was the decision to bring in an external CEO and become like Co-CTO.",[3553],{"_30":3547,"_16":2666,"_2667":3554},"00:05:59.250",{"_30":3556,"_16":272,"_273":3557,"_281":3582,"_283":284},"5895730917de",[3558,3562,3566,3569,3574,3577],{"_30":3559,"_16":277,"_278":3560,"_150":3104},"ecd44f4d0817",[3561,389],"d842868",{"_30":3563,"_16":277,"_278":3564,"_150":3565},"5e295bfaa52e",[3561]," So we brought in a CEO uniquely around two years into the company. Our revenue at the",{"_30":3567,"_16":277,"_278":3568,"_150":2658},"45fbaf6b8ba2",[],{"_30":3570,"_16":277,"_278":3571,"_150":3573},"65a786696798",[3572],"73c076c","time was less than half a million ARR. I mean it was nothing. It was not a good time to hire a",{"_30":3575,"_16":277,"_278":3576,"_150":2658},"bacacc69c10b",[],{"_30":3578,"_16":277,"_278":3579,"_150":3581},"51b5fe8a9530",[3580],"2b7b517","CEO, generally. But what we identified, I think there's a few important points.",[3583,3585,3587],{"_30":3561,"_16":2666,"_2667":3584},"00:06:05.330",{"_30":3572,"_16":2666,"_2667":3586},"00:06:12.170",{"_30":3580,"_16":2666,"_2667":3588},"00:06:18.050",{"_30":3590,"_16":272,"_273":3591,"_281":3629,"_283":284},"92c5171c2ac2",[3592,3597,3600,3605,3608,3613,3616,3621,3624],{"_30":3593,"_16":277,"_278":3594,"_150":3596},"be61f5542946",[3595],"2a1b77e","One, I just",{"_30":3598,"_16":277,"_278":3599,"_150":2658},"074041bec9da",[],{"_30":3601,"_16":277,"_278":3602,"_150":3604},"02ea0cc34cec",[3603],"b8cace3","didn't like the job. There was another person who gave a talk. I think it was the PostHog",{"_30":3606,"_16":277,"_278":3607,"_150":2658},"80a7503b8f3f",[],{"_30":3609,"_16":277,"_278":3610,"_150":3612},"6c091c9543b5",[3611],"4ecc3e4","folks that gave a talk about how you need to find what you enjoy as a founder. And",{"_30":3614,"_16":277,"_278":3615,"_150":2658},"5054f6dd3977",[],{"_30":3617,"_16":277,"_278":3618,"_150":3620},"68f6b3ef83f6",[3619],"e93f0e6","so that was one thing is I realized that at a certain point CEO becomes a very real defined job with very",{"_30":3622,"_16":277,"_278":3623,"_150":2658},"0d589863f2c9",[],{"_30":3625,"_16":277,"_278":3626,"_150":3628},"616fc1d272d0",[3627],"5037125","specific responsibilities.",[3630,3631,3633,3635,3637],{"_30":3595,"_16":2666,"_2667":3588},{"_30":3603,"_16":2666,"_2667":3632},"00:06:23.400",{"_30":3611,"_16":2666,"_2667":3634},"00:06:29.160",{"_30":3619,"_16":2666,"_2667":3636},"00:06:33.880",{"_30":3627,"_16":2666,"_2667":3638},"00:06:39.560",{"_30":3640,"_16":272,"_273":3641,"_281":3663,"_283":704},"13eaa92940a7",[3642,3647,3650,3655,3658],{"_30":3643,"_16":277,"_278":3644,"_150":3646},"2110130c8bdf",[3645],"3545e4a","I realized I was waking up every morning and I",{"_30":3648,"_16":277,"_278":3649,"_150":2658},"e6bf74545978",[],{"_30":3651,"_16":277,"_278":3652,"_150":3654},"a1e6c9d1ba7c",[3653],"622835f","did not want to go to work and that had never happened before. That was a really big",{"_30":3656,"_16":277,"_278":3657,"_150":2658},"b24deff3f04f",[],{"_30":3659,"_16":277,"_278":3660,"_150":3662},"8bf84b0bc1e1",[3661],"e292154","red flag.",[3664,3665,3667],{"_30":3645,"_16":2666,"_2667":3638},{"_30":3653,"_16":2666,"_2667":3666},"00:06:46.000",{"_30":3661,"_16":2666,"_2667":3668},"00:06:50.440",{"_30":3670,"_16":272,"_273":3671,"_281":3709,"_283":284},"496c691972bc",[3672,3677,3680,3685,3688,3693,3696,3701,3704],{"_30":3673,"_16":277,"_278":3674,"_150":3676},"435696fce41a",[3675],"ce10268","The other part of it is something a VC told me.",{"_30":3678,"_16":277,"_278":3679,"_150":2658},"89744b8a29e7",[],{"_30":3681,"_16":277,"_278":3682,"_150":3684},"eb1f12f77e18",[3683],"559cf40","On paper, startups are very, very likely to fail. And so when somebody invests in you, it's",{"_30":3686,"_16":277,"_278":3687,"_150":2658},"f8cc9abb305d",[],{"_30":3689,"_16":277,"_278":3690,"_150":3692},"112ca738ead7",[3691],"67ce407","because they identify some property of you or your idea, that is going to separate you",{"_30":3694,"_16":277,"_278":3695,"_150":2658},"b75016c9ec74",[],{"_30":3697,"_16":277,"_278":3698,"_150":3700},"f153bc9718dc",[3699],"e28a7db","from that mean. And for us, it was not my CEOing ability or charisma or any of that, it was very",{"_30":3702,"_16":277,"_278":3703,"_150":2658},"22fa79aa570d",[],{"_30":3705,"_16":277,"_278":3706,"_150":3708},"0f80d2a5c274",[3707],"42c8e55","product and engineering oriented.",[3710,3711,3713,3715,3717],{"_30":3675,"_16":2666,"_2667":3668},{"_30":3683,"_16":2666,"_2667":3712},"00:06:57.800",{"_30":3691,"_16":2666,"_2667":3714},"00:07:04.680",{"_30":3699,"_16":2666,"_2667":3716},"00:07:09.600",{"_30":3707,"_16":2666,"_2667":3718},"00:07:18.090",{"_30":3720,"_16":272,"_273":3721,"_281":3767,"_283":284},"d47d6da17e38",[3722,3727,3730,3735,3738,3743,3746,3751,3754,3759,3762],{"_30":3723,"_16":277,"_278":3724,"_150":3726},"8f6bb62de6c9",[3725],"94f9692","So every moment I was spending away from that thinking was",{"_30":3728,"_16":277,"_278":3729,"_150":2658},"d1d7233b04e9",[],{"_30":3731,"_16":277,"_278":3732,"_150":3734},"ce47bb455be9",[3733],"b1a3030","regressing us back to the mean of being more likely to be in the bucket of startups that didn't make",{"_30":3736,"_16":277,"_278":3737,"_150":2658},"1ffda0adc956",[],{"_30":3739,"_16":277,"_278":3740,"_150":3742},"14ba000677ae",[3741],"f14a28b","it. And so I thought about that. And with Armon, we thought, \"okay, if we find the right person that we",{"_30":3744,"_16":277,"_278":3745,"_150":2658},"075c40ccf6c7",[],{"_30":3747,"_16":277,"_278":3748,"_150":3750},"5877968e5235",[3749],"efaa06c","could trust, could we bring someone in that would allow us to delegate this stuff, enjoy my work",{"_30":3752,"_16":277,"_278":3753,"_150":2658},"df2c9e8e5531",[],{"_30":3755,"_16":277,"_278":3756,"_150":3758},"08cb96ffbe76",[3757],"f3db08d","more, but also allow me and Armon to work on the things that put us in a more highly likely to",{"_30":3760,"_16":277,"_278":3761,"_150":2658},"0e2976843170",[],{"_30":3763,"_16":277,"_278":3764,"_150":3766},"6ab6c2335357",[3765],"9eca199","succeed bucket?\"",[3768,3769,3771,3773,3775,3777],{"_30":3725,"_16":2666,"_2667":3718},{"_30":3733,"_16":2666,"_2667":3770},"00:07:23.890",{"_30":3741,"_16":2666,"_2667":3772},"00:07:28.650",{"_30":3749,"_16":2666,"_2667":3774},"00:07:35.450",{"_30":3757,"_16":2666,"_2667":3776},"00:07:40.990",{"_30":3765,"_16":2666,"_2667":3778},"00:07:48.030",{"_30":3780,"_16":272,"_273":3781,"_281":3803,"_283":284},"f51041721698",[3782,3787,3790,3795,3798],{"_30":3783,"_16":277,"_278":3784,"_150":3786},"5df5b126a4fe",[3785],"f76f49e","And that was the decision making. I think that the CEO is a big, very",{"_30":3788,"_16":277,"_278":3789,"_150":2658},"776cef4e56b6",[],{"_30":3791,"_16":277,"_278":3792,"_150":3794},"2c7b7856f994",[3793],"acb7273","public visible one. But I would think that way about all sorts of stuff along the way, like",{"_30":3796,"_16":277,"_278":3797,"_150":2658},"e889b6429410",[],{"_30":3799,"_16":277,"_278":3800,"_150":3802},"0fcde4f4bfa8",[3801],"ffd1c93","marketing, sales, all these things that I had to yield control of.",[3804,3805,3807],{"_30":3785,"_16":2666,"_2667":3778},{"_30":3793,"_16":2666,"_2667":3806},"00:07:53.590",{"_30":3801,"_16":2666,"_2667":3808},"00:07:59.230",{"_30":3810,"_16":272,"_273":3811,"_281":3844,"_283":284},"3e9041654378",[3812,3816,3820,3823,3828,3831,3836,3839],{"_30":3813,"_16":277,"_278":3814,"_150":3047},"227df406dbb8",[3815,389],"8a149c5",{"_30":3817,"_16":277,"_278":3818,"_150":3819},"636ec97f270e",[3815]," Yeah. Something that I always thought you and Armon were so good about is being self aware. You",{"_30":3821,"_16":277,"_278":3822,"_150":2658},"9eadcc455481",[],{"_30":3824,"_16":277,"_278":3825,"_150":3827},"c072847dc6f7",[3826],"e2bc3a6","knew the things you were good at and so bringing Dave, an external CEO in, he has an accounting",{"_30":3829,"_16":277,"_278":3830,"_150":2658},"9684e21cba4d",[],{"_30":3832,"_16":277,"_278":3833,"_150":3835},"b030b8db5793",[3834],"ae9370e","background, he had a marketing background. So he helped really build out the different",{"_30":3837,"_16":277,"_278":3838,"_150":2658},"8496a058effe",[],{"_30":3840,"_16":277,"_278":3841,"_150":3843},"b5f2bd47697e",[3842],"8724a43","departments and the different segments of the business, which was great.",[3845,3847,3849,3851],{"_30":3815,"_16":2666,"_2667":3846},"00:08:02.430",{"_30":3826,"_16":2666,"_2667":3848},"00:08:07.360",{"_30":3834,"_16":2666,"_2667":3850},"00:08:12.600",{"_30":3842,"_16":2666,"_2667":3852},"00:08:16.600",{"_30":3854,"_16":272,"_273":3855,"_281":3893,"_283":284},"f00804dedde1",[3856,3861,3864,3869,3872,3877,3880,3885,3888],{"_30":3857,"_16":277,"_278":3858,"_150":3860},"80b50644f0a0",[3859],"d6aba53","And then, I don't know",{"_30":3862,"_16":277,"_278":3863,"_150":2658},"b5911beb8d83",[],{"_30":3865,"_16":277,"_278":3866,"_150":3868},"9bba09d78845",[3867],"f1f7fe7","if you all read this, but Mitchell wrote a blog post about his decision to step away from the",{"_30":3870,"_16":277,"_278":3871,"_150":2658},"7fa881106b73",[],{"_30":3873,"_16":277,"_278":3874,"_150":3876},"811c7021cfff",[3875],"a1253db","Co-CTO and become an IC. And it's actually really funny. Quinn Slack was like, \"don't stop coding.\" And I",{"_30":3878,"_16":277,"_278":3879,"_150":2658},"2f787388ee89",[],{"_30":3881,"_16":277,"_278":3882,"_150":3884},"537c473e8363",[3883],"64629b0","feel like that blog post broke the Internet. And everyone was like, \"wow, I can be an IC, I don't",{"_30":3886,"_16":277,"_278":3887,"_150":2658},"8e4b45383451",[],{"_30":3889,"_16":277,"_278":3890,"_150":3892},"4f5df2090140",[3891],"041f9b2","have to like.\" It was really like a revolutionary notion.",[3894,3895,3897,3899,3901],{"_30":3859,"_16":2666,"_2667":3852},{"_30":3867,"_16":2666,"_2667":3896},"00:08:22.440",{"_30":3875,"_16":2666,"_2667":3898},"00:08:28.480",{"_30":3883,"_16":2666,"_2667":3900},"00:08:34.000",{"_30":3891,"_16":2666,"_2667":3902},"00:08:39.900",{"_30":3904,"_16":272,"_273":3905,"_281":3909,"_283":284},"05ced0252693",[3906],{"_30":3907,"_16":277,"_278":3908,"_150":1039},"b096b1409cb2",[],[],{"_30":3911,"_16":272,"_273":3912,"_281":3917,"_283":405},"a910b394c474",[3913],{"_30":3914,"_16":277,"_278":3915,"_150":3916},"86400ce4e991",[],"Returning to Product and Staying Fearless",[],{"_30":3919,"_16":272,"_273":3920,"_281":3924,"_283":284},"86f0287a6d3f",[3921],{"_30":3922,"_16":277,"_278":3923,"_150":1039},"64216c8b8bc9",[],[],{"_30":3926,"_16":272,"_273":3927,"_281":3960,"_283":284},"e8bad0792b13",[3928,3932,3936,3939,3944,3947,3952,3955],{"_30":3929,"_16":277,"_278":3930,"_150":3104},"70cae328fcf5",[3931,389],"054b0de",{"_30":3933,"_16":277,"_278":3934,"_150":3935},"e3ba005cbfe0",[3931]," I don't know if it was revolutionary, but it's different. It's different. Yeah.",{"_30":3937,"_16":277,"_278":3938,"_150":2658},"cec75e66b102",[],{"_30":3940,"_16":277,"_278":3941,"_150":3943},"5084fa1f366a",[3942],"6f1bc60","Again, that's the sort of stuff that makes the company special. And that's not true",{"_30":3945,"_16":277,"_278":3946,"_150":2658},"885ecc675f14",[],{"_30":3948,"_16":277,"_278":3949,"_150":3951},"c3b55dcb3cfa",[3950],"cc257b9","for every company. That was true for ours, but I think it's true for a lot where your, as a founder,",{"_30":3953,"_16":277,"_278":3954,"_150":2658},"ebc7c8d7eb51",[],{"_30":3956,"_16":277,"_278":3957,"_150":3959},"cf3df9552d9d",[3958],"4e5563e","product and engineering prowess differentiates things.",[3961,3963,3965,3967],{"_30":3931,"_16":2666,"_2667":3962},"00:08:43.740",{"_30":3942,"_16":2666,"_2667":3964},"00:08:48.620",{"_30":3950,"_16":2666,"_2667":3966},"00:08:52.700",{"_30":3958,"_16":2666,"_2667":3968},"00:08:57.340",{"_30":3970,"_16":272,"_273":3971,"_281":4009,"_283":284},"23f240df3b07",[3972,3977,3980,3985,3988,3993,3996,4001,4004],{"_30":3973,"_16":277,"_278":3974,"_150":3976},"df7e1166e81b",[3975],"e95aaa8","And I think a lot of companies, when you stop",{"_30":3978,"_16":277,"_278":3979,"_150":2658},"6de3f7303f94",[],{"_30":3981,"_16":277,"_278":3982,"_150":3984},"d48f18e40203",[3983],"60a9573","coding that and you get into the later stages, you're losing that. And I",{"_30":3986,"_16":277,"_278":3987,"_150":2658},"2c0de7782759",[],{"_30":3989,"_16":277,"_278":3990,"_150":3992},"aedff6da6e42",[3991],"80b3bde","felt that the company was losing that. And I wanted to personally go back to it, but I also",{"_30":3994,"_16":277,"_278":3995,"_150":2658},"fc296d16b054",[],{"_30":3997,"_16":277,"_278":3998,"_150":4000},"ea9f127bfa3a",[3999],"33292f4","wanted to light a fire under certain things and be like, \"this is how I'm gonna do",{"_30":4002,"_16":277,"_278":4003,"_150":2658},"16591f6d66b8",[],{"_30":4005,"_16":277,"_278":4006,"_150":4008},"3fd44b379481",[4007],"b019edc","things differently.\" And I think it is important, if you're that person, to keep it up.",[4010,4011,4013,4015,4017],{"_30":3975,"_16":2666,"_2667":3968},{"_30":3983,"_16":2666,"_2667":4012},"00:09:02.060",{"_30":3991,"_16":2666,"_2667":4014},"00:09:08.510",{"_30":3999,"_16":2666,"_2667":4016},"00:09:14.350",{"_30":4007,"_16":2666,"_2667":4018},"00:09:18.710",{"_30":4020,"_16":272,"_273":4021,"_281":4054,"_283":284},"7fbf891e944d",[4022,4026,4030,4033,4038,4041,4046,4049],{"_30":4023,"_16":277,"_278":4024,"_150":3047},"cea54398c695",[4025,389],"370de07",{"_30":4027,"_16":277,"_278":4028,"_150":4029},"b8f672fef6f4",[4025]," We were also talking about in the dry run, about how you used to be fearless and used to take",{"_30":4031,"_16":277,"_278":4032,"_150":2658},"92f051723b55",[],{"_30":4034,"_16":277,"_278":4035,"_150":4037},"38a6a0ce1d42",[4036],"0ada624","a lot more risks. I'd love to learn a bit more about that. Like, how did that shift happen and",{"_30":4039,"_16":277,"_278":4040,"_150":2658},"c0003f59863f",[],{"_30":4042,"_16":277,"_278":4043,"_150":4045},"2e1bf005297b",[4044],"29f088b","how could you have avoided it? Because you talked about Tobias and Guillermo from",{"_30":4047,"_16":277,"_278":4048,"_150":2658},"65f1cb33fbb0",[],{"_30":4050,"_16":277,"_278":4051,"_150":4053},"de6424bcc0a9",[4052],"c2080ee","Vercel, how you're like, \"oh, they're still...\"",[4055,4057,4059,4061],{"_30":4025,"_16":2666,"_2667":4056},"00:09:24.030",{"_30":4036,"_16":2666,"_2667":4058},"00:09:28.550",{"_30":4044,"_16":2666,"_2667":4060},"00:09:34.880",{"_30":4052,"_16":2666,"_2667":4062},"00:09:38.600",{"_30":4064,"_16":272,"_273":4065,"_281":4098,"_283":284},"ec2dd441f0cc",[4066,4070,4074,4077,4082,4085,4090,4093],{"_30":4067,"_16":277,"_278":4068,"_150":3104},"4bee1387c227",[4069,389],"9f29ddc",{"_30":4071,"_16":277,"_278":4072,"_150":4073},"4e11800ed32d",[4069]," Yeah, this is one of my regrets. And I think it's something that, at least from my perspective,",{"_30":4075,"_16":277,"_278":4076,"_150":2658},"a149439366a9",[],{"_30":4078,"_16":277,"_278":4079,"_150":4081},"d9badc7e9fa4",[4080],"d589a0f","HashiCorp failed at or I failed at, but I think the first",{"_30":4083,"_16":277,"_278":4084,"_150":2658},"002b600d69d6",[],{"_30":4086,"_16":277,"_278":4087,"_150":4089},"de6f9dfd5b9c",[4088],"e4852f1","five or six years, we were totally fearless. I didn't care what anybody said. I didn't",{"_30":4091,"_16":277,"_278":4092,"_150":2658},"2ab8099db5ec",[],{"_30":4094,"_16":277,"_278":4095,"_150":4097},"11a7cff0d670",[4096],"9212422","care what the public Internet feedback was.",[4099,4101,4103,4105],{"_30":4069,"_16":2666,"_2667":4100},"00:09:40.520",{"_30":4080,"_16":2666,"_2667":4102},"00:09:46.280",{"_30":4088,"_16":2666,"_2667":4104},"00:09:51.480",{"_30":4096,"_16":2666,"_2667":4106},"00:09:57.280",{"_30":4108,"_16":272,"_273":4109,"_281":4139,"_283":284},"1f181cda76da",[4110,4115,4118,4123,4126,4131,4134],{"_30":4111,"_16":277,"_278":4112,"_150":4114},"01f877886c1a",[4113],"d1a939f","We just did what we thought was right, and we built and",{"_30":4116,"_16":277,"_278":4117,"_150":2658},"491c46add404",[],{"_30":4119,"_16":277,"_278":4120,"_150":4122},"583303fa472c",[4121],"1419fad","we built a certain way, and some people got on board and other people were appalled, and we just did",{"_30":4124,"_16":277,"_278":4125,"_150":2658},"eef462d1716d",[],{"_30":4127,"_16":277,"_278":4128,"_150":4130},"7b0d2455e43f",[4129],"3b8196b","it. And at a certain point in the company, it's not like overnight, it's just something I",{"_30":4132,"_16":277,"_278":4133,"_150":2658},"338e79dc216b",[],{"_30":4135,"_16":277,"_278":4136,"_150":4138},"cdb87ddb0afa",[4137],"06c8049","realized later. My mentality shifted where I got very fearful.",[4140,4141,4143,4145],{"_30":4113,"_16":2666,"_2667":4106},{"_30":4121,"_16":2666,"_2667":4142},"00:10:02.080",{"_30":4129,"_16":2666,"_2667":4144},"00:10:08.440",{"_30":4137,"_16":2666,"_2667":4146},"00:10:14.400",{"_30":4148,"_16":272,"_273":4149,"_281":4195,"_283":284},"9cddf84d06c6",[4150,4155,4158,4163,4166,4171,4174,4179,4182,4187,4190],{"_30":4151,"_16":277,"_278":4152,"_150":4154},"04d8085db2b4",[4153],"7dff2c2","I suddenly was fearful of all the",{"_30":4156,"_16":277,"_278":4157,"_150":2658},"87993edc7fb5",[],{"_30":4159,"_16":277,"_278":4160,"_150":4162},"e8cbf5af2c4c",[4161],"38d2ec6","time and energy we had put into this and it all being a waste. I was fearful of seeing all these",{"_30":4164,"_16":277,"_278":4165,"_150":2658},"ddc315f395d7",[],{"_30":4167,"_16":277,"_278":4168,"_150":4170},"85616658b2f2",[4169],"0ccaf1e","employees around me and what if they didn't have a job at a certain point because we weren't making",{"_30":4172,"_16":277,"_278":4173,"_150":2658},"874f805f6082",[],{"_30":4175,"_16":277,"_278":4176,"_150":4178},"d77a7ee99201",[4177],"91d1bf0","the right decisions. And customers that we had, and if I change this direction, are we going to",{"_30":4180,"_16":277,"_278":4181,"_150":2658},"c21831219f81",[],{"_30":4183,"_16":277,"_278":4184,"_150":4186},"d7b376d18dca",[4185],"e30fc5d","lose them as customers? But more importantly on the human side, are we going to lose their",{"_30":4188,"_16":277,"_278":4189,"_150":2658},"f45f027568e5",[],{"_30":4191,"_16":277,"_278":4192,"_150":4194},"58c774d24c3d",[4193],"19d7add","trust?",[4196,4197,4199,4201,4203,4205],{"_30":4153,"_16":2666,"_2667":4146},{"_30":4161,"_16":2666,"_2667":4198},"00:10:24.340",{"_30":4169,"_16":2666,"_2667":4200},"00:10:28.340",{"_30":4177,"_16":2666,"_2667":4202},"00:10:33.500",{"_30":4185,"_16":2666,"_2667":4204},"00:10:39.260",{"_30":4193,"_16":2666,"_2667":4206},"00:10:43.340",{"_30":4208,"_16":272,"_273":4209,"_281":4231,"_283":284},"39381ea6f61c",[4210,4215,4218,4223,4226],{"_30":4211,"_16":277,"_278":4212,"_150":4214},"c2021978e68f",[4213],"c3b7572","And every decision shifted where I viewed it from a position of fear rather than",{"_30":4216,"_16":277,"_278":4217,"_150":2658},"e56b00ff1580",[],{"_30":4219,"_16":277,"_278":4220,"_150":4222},"2448feb045ac",[4221],"0a2577c","a position of confidence. And even as I recognized that and started course correcting, it felt like",{"_30":4224,"_16":277,"_278":4225,"_150":2658},"e73cee9e7260",[],{"_30":4227,"_16":277,"_278":4228,"_150":4230},"d5f229b77508",[4229],"6d6f042","it crept into the core of how things worked in the company and the process and the frameworks.",[4232,4233,4235],{"_30":4213,"_16":2666,"_2667":4206},{"_30":4221,"_16":2666,"_2667":4234},"00:10:50.520",{"_30":4229,"_16":2666,"_2667":4236},"00:10:56.520",{"_30":4238,"_16":272,"_273":4239,"_281":4277,"_283":284},"ed4590f21e77",[4240,4245,4248,4253,4256,4261,4264,4269,4272],{"_30":4241,"_16":277,"_278":4242,"_150":4244},"e659bfd880ba",[4243],"fb90371","So one thing, I recognize these companies, I feel like I don't know",{"_30":4246,"_16":277,"_278":4247,"_150":2658},"a32469cb2138",[],{"_30":4249,"_16":277,"_278":4250,"_150":4252},"00406de45af2",[4251],"33fb27e","the inner workings of these companies, so I'm just talking purely from an outsider, but it",{"_30":4254,"_16":277,"_278":4255,"_150":2658},"1c79f5fa3155",[],{"_30":4257,"_16":277,"_278":4258,"_150":4260},"added6035424",[4259],"8f88d66","seems like companies like Vercel with Guillermo, Shopify with Tobias, they're doing a much",{"_30":4262,"_16":277,"_278":4263,"_150":2658},"6a17f5f93aa6",[],{"_30":4265,"_16":277,"_278":4266,"_150":4268},"8eb4ddbfc8db",[4267],"3325d6a","better job at a much larger scale, of keeping this sort of",{"_30":4270,"_16":277,"_278":4271,"_150":2658},"a2a7e507e2c4",[],{"_30":4273,"_16":277,"_278":4274,"_150":4276},"42b529f7f4ab",[4275],"2480d4f","fearless motion going.",[4278,4280,4282,4284,4286],{"_30":4243,"_16":2666,"_2667":4279},"00:11:02.290",{"_30":4251,"_16":2666,"_2667":4281},"00:11:08.320",{"_30":4259,"_16":2666,"_2667":4283},"00:11:12.400",{"_30":4267,"_16":2666,"_2667":4285},"00:11:17.120",{"_30":4275,"_16":2666,"_2667":4287},"00:11:22.840",{"_30":4289,"_16":272,"_273":4290,"_281":4320,"_283":704},"bd58c826908f",[4291,4296,4299,4304,4307,4312,4315],{"_30":4292,"_16":277,"_278":4293,"_150":4295},"6188f6e7300e",[4294],"43f149b","When I talk to early stage founders, I try to just encourage",{"_30":4297,"_16":277,"_278":4298,"_150":2658},"aa9f3d4908f4",[],{"_30":4300,"_16":277,"_278":4301,"_150":4303},"042690726b69",[4302],"188fda7","them to not get paralyzed by fear. Don't let that seep in. There's a lot of scary things happening",{"_30":4305,"_16":277,"_278":4306,"_150":2658},"2cbce1ceedba",[],{"_30":4308,"_16":277,"_278":4309,"_150":4311},"e0793057be3f",[4310],"1462b7c","around you, but all your early success is because of the fearlessness. So keep that",{"_30":4313,"_16":277,"_278":4314,"_150":2658},"5b03674a1fb9",[],{"_30":4316,"_16":277,"_278":4317,"_150":4319},"c0167f6a72ef",[4318],"62a8397","going.",[4321,4322,4324,4326],{"_30":4294,"_16":2666,"_2667":4287},{"_30":4302,"_16":2666,"_2667":4323},"00:11:29.560",{"_30":4310,"_16":2666,"_2667":4325},"00:11:34.520",{"_30":4318,"_16":2666,"_2667":4327},"00:11:40.080",{"_30":4329,"_16":272,"_273":4330,"_281":4363,"_283":284},"fa5f702b614b",[4331,4335,4339,4342,4347,4350,4355,4358],{"_30":4332,"_16":277,"_278":4333,"_150":3047},"7b09a38b5433",[4334,389],"bff9cde",{"_30":4336,"_16":277,"_278":4337,"_150":4338},"63db725d0be1",[4334]," Well, at least from an employee perspective, it always felt like you were all trying to make the",{"_30":4340,"_16":277,"_278":4341,"_150":2658},"ceabb86a442c",[],{"_30":4343,"_16":277,"_278":4344,"_150":4346},"f8dc3d1cc1b0",[4345],"7b24a29","best decisions for the company and for the employees. And you built a really incredible culture. I",{"_30":4348,"_16":277,"_278":4349,"_150":2658},"150ad00498c4",[],{"_30":4351,"_16":277,"_278":4352,"_150":4354},"ea77f9c17222",[4353],"a5fde61","think about all the early employees, like how many of us were still there at the time of the IPO.",{"_30":4356,"_16":277,"_278":4357,"_150":2658},"d1273755b914",[],{"_30":4359,"_16":277,"_278":4360,"_150":4362},"11d31e79b86a",[4361],"5490cfc","So thank you for that. I can't imagine the pressure.",[4364,4366,4368,4370],{"_30":4334,"_16":2666,"_2667":4365},"00:11:41.200",{"_30":4345,"_16":2666,"_2667":4367},"00:11:47.960",{"_30":4353,"_16":2666,"_2667":4369},"00:11:53.920",{"_30":4361,"_16":2666,"_2667":4371},"00:11:58.720",{"_30":4373,"_16":272,"_273":4374,"_281":4407,"_283":284},"0ba288704705",[4375,4379,4383,4386,4391,4394,4399,4402],{"_30":4376,"_16":277,"_278":4377,"_150":3104},"8b933598a036",[4378,389],"26f4fd6",{"_30":4380,"_16":277,"_278":4381,"_150":4382},"9b560ed2857a",[4378]," Most early employees, there was only a handful that had",{"_30":4384,"_16":277,"_278":4385,"_150":2658},"7467920848f6",[],{"_30":4387,"_16":277,"_278":4388,"_150":4390},"74b97b772464",[4389],"d30c4fb","ever left. I think early on, it was almost selfish, but I think it would",{"_30":4392,"_16":277,"_278":4393,"_150":2658},"6e53cbc8a60a",[],{"_30":4395,"_16":277,"_278":4396,"_150":4398},"3747b6763e0a",[4397],"1b4f3a1","have worked out not selfish. Early on it was, I don't care if we fail because, me personally, I'll",{"_30":4400,"_16":277,"_278":4401,"_150":2658},"88378e43c5d7",[],{"_30":4403,"_16":277,"_278":4404,"_150":4406},"29de245c1471",[4405],"db5834e","just go work for Google or something.",[4408,4410,4412,4414],{"_30":4378,"_16":2666,"_2667":4409},"00:12:00.200",{"_30":4389,"_16":2666,"_2667":4411},"00:12:05.680",{"_30":4397,"_16":2666,"_2667":4413},"00:12:12.720",{"_30":4405,"_16":2666,"_2667":4415},"00:12:19.400",{"_30":4417,"_16":272,"_273":4418,"_281":4440,"_283":284},"d94f06049708",[4419,4424,4427,4432,4435],{"_30":4420,"_16":277,"_278":4421,"_150":4423},"a1082288c13d",[4422],"4cf7549","You have this naive, young, rude arrogance,",{"_30":4425,"_16":277,"_278":4426,"_150":2658},"7950f2fef898",[],{"_30":4428,"_16":277,"_278":4429,"_150":4431},"42e8f08c39cf",[4430],"398c06b","about it. It doesn't matter. I didn't have a family, wasn't married, no kids, no house. Nothing",{"_30":4433,"_16":277,"_278":4434,"_150":2658},"c5d5038d1467",[],{"_30":4436,"_16":277,"_278":4437,"_150":4439},"1c047a8827c8",[4438],"16a88f8","mattered. All that mattered was I was just going to focus on the vision and failure was fine.",[4441,4442,4444],{"_30":4422,"_16":2666,"_2667":4415},{"_30":4430,"_16":2666,"_2667":4443},"00:12:27.780",{"_30":4438,"_16":2666,"_2667":4445},"00:12:33.680",{"_30":4447,"_16":272,"_273":4448,"_281":4470,"_283":284},"df508d4060f3",[4449,4454,4457,4462,4465],{"_30":4450,"_16":277,"_278":4451,"_150":4453},"74e68438b727",[4452],"ecb577a","And then it shifted, and it shifts a lot, even before I had a family or anything, just because of the",{"_30":4455,"_16":277,"_278":4456,"_150":2658},"4f67827c086e",[],{"_30":4458,"_16":277,"_278":4459,"_150":4461},"f36727a08e55",[4460],"0f97ac9","employees that worked there, it shifts a lot. And I think if I could go back in time, I would",{"_30":4463,"_16":277,"_278":4464,"_150":2658},"35ad8ab58ce1",[],{"_30":4466,"_16":277,"_278":4467,"_150":4469},"79cc09fdc3b4",[4468],"573903c","reorient my thinking around that.",[4471,4473,4475],{"_30":4452,"_16":2666,"_2667":4472},"00:12:37.650",{"_30":4460,"_16":2666,"_2667":4474},"00:12:41.970",{"_30":4468,"_16":2666,"_2667":4476},"00:12:49.090",{"_30":4478,"_16":272,"_273":4479,"_281":4504,"_283":284},"5c3176e5dc3a",[4480,4484,4488,4491,4496,4499],{"_30":4481,"_16":277,"_278":4482,"_150":3047},"1382f95c8111",[4483,389],"4ebda33",{"_30":4485,"_16":277,"_278":4486,"_150":4487},"ef8988b8ca57",[4483]," I think that's actually a really nice shift to community, and something that Josh of Sketch.dev",{"_30":4489,"_16":277,"_278":4490,"_150":2658},"80de454abd8f",[],{"_30":4492,"_16":277,"_278":4493,"_150":4495},"caa38e448ff0",[4494],"90bf436","mentioned earlier about culture and people and how that's really important to wire, really",{"_30":4497,"_16":277,"_278":4498,"_150":2658},"867a5e0125d4",[],{"_30":4500,"_16":277,"_278":4501,"_150":4503},"4cd94dd9c2f6",[4502],"fa2406e","early on, into the company. How did you all approach that? Because we all experienced it.",[4505,4507,4509],{"_30":4483,"_16":2666,"_2667":4506},"00:12:51.810",{"_30":4494,"_16":2666,"_2667":4508},"00:12:56.490",{"_30":4502,"_16":2666,"_2667":4510},"00:13:02.930",{"_30":4512,"_16":272,"_273":4513,"_281":4522,"_283":284},"39616ccfdbe4",[4514,4518],{"_30":4515,"_16":277,"_278":4516,"_150":3104},"5b057effda6e",[4517,389],"9d9385c",{"_30":4519,"_16":277,"_278":4520,"_150":4521},"cd5df36eeff0",[4517]," From the employee side?",[4523],{"_30":4517,"_16":2666,"_2667":4524},"00:13:08.130",{"_30":4526,"_16":272,"_273":4527,"_281":4536,"_283":284},"81296d8d184d",[4528,4532],{"_30":4529,"_16":277,"_278":4530,"_150":3047},"1599056c31bb",[4531,389],"982c86e",{"_30":4533,"_16":277,"_278":4534,"_150":4535},"93360b478533",[4531]," Yeah, employee side. Because I also felt like that was how we treated the community as well.",[4537],{"_30":4531,"_16":2666,"_2667":4538},"00:13:09.090",{"_30":4540,"_16":272,"_273":4541,"_281":4545,"_283":284},"668692cfc43c",[4542],{"_30":4543,"_16":277,"_278":4544,"_150":1039},"7b0a78fd9968",[],[],{"_30":4547,"_16":272,"_273":4548,"_281":4553,"_283":405},"c0e82c9a344c",[4549],{"_30":4550,"_16":277,"_278":4551,"_150":4552},"1e6d9f8b1c98",[],"Building Culture and Principles",[],{"_30":4555,"_16":272,"_273":4556,"_281":4560,"_283":284},"147b0ec357eb",[4557],{"_30":4558,"_16":277,"_278":4559,"_150":1039},"8505631c6ec8",[],[],{"_30":4562,"_16":272,"_273":4563,"_281":4596,"_283":284},"9364e76fe50e",[4564,4568,4572,4575,4580,4583,4588,4591],{"_30":4565,"_16":277,"_278":4566,"_150":3104},"5161fd13018e",[4567,389],"be06561",{"_30":4569,"_16":277,"_278":4570,"_150":4571},"3f81aa1f7085",[4567]," Yeah. From the employee side, again this was part of the PostHog talk, but they talked",{"_30":4573,"_16":277,"_278":4574,"_150":2658},"ec678607c65f",[],{"_30":4576,"_16":277,"_278":4577,"_150":4579},"50dc89049341",[4578],"ebb7e5e","about principles and I think for us that was very important. I mean you",{"_30":4581,"_16":277,"_278":4582,"_150":2658},"e7743a8819c1",[],{"_30":4584,"_16":277,"_278":4585,"_150":4587},"2f6dacc7cf47",[4586],"b75c43c","were there. I think it was with around five employees that Armon and I put together the",{"_30":4589,"_16":277,"_278":4590,"_150":2658},"6d85a6dda7ee",[],{"_30":4592,"_16":277,"_278":4593,"_150":4595},"16574a4127ba",[4594],"94973d2","principles of HashiCorp.",[4597,4599,4601,4603],{"_30":4567,"_16":2666,"_2667":4598},"00:13:13.250",{"_30":4578,"_16":2666,"_2667":4600},"00:13:17.810",{"_30":4586,"_16":2666,"_2667":4602},"00:13:25.450",{"_30":4594,"_16":2666,"_2667":4604},"00:13:32.180",{"_30":4606,"_16":272,"_273":4607,"_281":4637,"_283":284},"4ce4875964b9",[4608,4613,4616,4621,4624,4629,4632],{"_30":4609,"_16":277,"_278":4610,"_150":4612},"2ada2b58c9a2",[4611],"97d60a6","And we said this then, a lot of",{"_30":4614,"_16":277,"_278":4615,"_150":2658},"612c602a0f0c",[],{"_30":4617,"_16":277,"_278":4618,"_150":4620},"93c1f4d40268",[4619],"8cee722","companies throw principles up on the wall because it's kind of like an HR check mark or something.",{"_30":4622,"_16":277,"_278":4623,"_150":2658},"1a3d3b24d176",[],{"_30":4625,"_16":277,"_278":4626,"_150":4628},"fcf39eaa6897",[4627],"77054d6","But we tried to write down things that were basically, you know, how we act, how we behave. And",{"_30":4630,"_16":277,"_278":4631,"_150":2658},"eec936569a97",[],{"_30":4633,"_16":277,"_278":4634,"_150":4636},"01045d8bd771",[4635],"4aae49e","it's like, who are the people we want to work with? It's like the people that act like this.",[4638,4639,4641,4643],{"_30":4611,"_16":2666,"_2667":4604},{"_30":4619,"_16":2666,"_2667":4640},"00:13:36.620",{"_30":4627,"_16":2666,"_2667":4642},"00:13:41.840",{"_30":4635,"_16":2666,"_2667":4644},"00:13:47.700",{"_30":4646,"_16":272,"_273":4647,"_281":4677,"_283":284},"7a19dce42222",[4648,4653,4656,4661,4664,4669,4672],{"_30":4649,"_16":277,"_278":4650,"_150":4652},"56e86f9ab63a",[4651],"594fb2b","And so",{"_30":4654,"_16":277,"_278":4655,"_150":2658},"e351234f70a7",[],{"_30":4657,"_16":277,"_278":4658,"_150":4660},"afe5c4826176",[4659],"ad40900","we put that down and we really, even up to when I left and all the way through, constantly",{"_30":4662,"_16":277,"_278":4663,"_150":2658},"8601cd115343",[],{"_30":4665,"_16":277,"_278":4666,"_150":4668},"d53ea76cafda",[4667],"330f4e2","reiterated those. And I think that was one huge success was we did keep that pretty strong. And",{"_30":4670,"_16":277,"_278":4671,"_150":2658},"2ab6663f91ea",[],{"_30":4673,"_16":277,"_278":4674,"_150":4676},"8532958b43c0",[4675],"861364b","I think it's about building those frameworks in place.",[4678,4679,4681,4683],{"_30":4651,"_16":2666,"_2667":4644},{"_30":4659,"_16":2666,"_2667":4680},"00:13:51.740",{"_30":4667,"_16":2666,"_2667":4682},"00:13:57.620",{"_30":4675,"_16":2666,"_2667":4684},"00:14:03.090",{"_30":4686,"_16":272,"_273":4687,"_281":4717,"_283":284},"d1c2b9dbfc06",[4688,4693,4696,4701,4704,4709,4712],{"_30":4689,"_16":277,"_278":4690,"_150":4692},"0d0192ddf4c7",[4691],"4aef9d2","You can never ad hoc, say what our",{"_30":4694,"_16":277,"_278":4695,"_150":2658},"53fd538362a7",[],{"_30":4697,"_16":277,"_278":4698,"_150":4700},"37a6b97714a3",[4699],"e511b9a","culture was. The culture was obvious. The culture was in writing. The culture was from five",{"_30":4702,"_16":277,"_278":4703,"_150":2658},"a9033e4e91ca",[],{"_30":4705,"_16":277,"_278":4706,"_150":4708},"2d4743de1df0",[4707],"63554c0","employees onward, it was there. And then, yeah, that's how we treated",{"_30":4710,"_16":277,"_278":4711,"_150":2658},"97aea0e1c6b8",[],{"_30":4713,"_16":277,"_278":4714,"_150":4716},"bede0136a48b",[4715],"524b00e","people external to the company too.",[4718,4719,4721,4723],{"_30":4691,"_16":2666,"_2667":4684},{"_30":4699,"_16":2666,"_2667":4720},"00:14:10.650",{"_30":4707,"_16":2666,"_2667":4722},"00:14:15.250",{"_30":4715,"_16":2666,"_2667":4724},"00:14:20.490",{"_30":4726,"_16":272,"_273":4727,"_281":4744,"_283":284},"5f828310337c",[4728,4732,4736,4739],{"_30":4729,"_16":277,"_278":4730,"_150":3047},"b2e74bd3f495",[4731,389],"3da58df",{"_30":4733,"_16":277,"_278":4734,"_150":4735},"3beba18a265b",[4731]," Yeah, we lived and breathed those principles. At every new onboarding, for years,",{"_30":4737,"_16":277,"_278":4738,"_150":2658},"5898605aecf6",[],{"_30":4740,"_16":277,"_278":4741,"_150":4743},"507829899948",[4742],"bfd6db5","Armon would be at every new onboarding going through the principles.",[4745,4747],{"_30":4731,"_16":2666,"_2667":4746},"00:14:21.930",{"_30":4742,"_16":2666,"_2667":4748},"00:14:27.600",{"_30":4750,"_16":272,"_273":4751,"_281":4784,"_283":284},"b8701d165b94",[4752,4756,4760,4763,4768,4771,4776,4779],{"_30":4753,"_16":277,"_278":4754,"_150":3104},"08fccef9f3fc",[4755,389],"6e676b5",{"_30":4757,"_16":277,"_278":4758,"_150":4759},"67e0abd77777",[4755]," I've still never heard of a founder, like",{"_30":4761,"_16":277,"_278":4762,"_150":2658},"6dc7aa689ad4",[],{"_30":4764,"_16":277,"_278":4765,"_150":4767},"4820116354df",[4766],"ca1479a","Armon did, that onboarded individually, personally, every single employee",{"_30":4769,"_16":277,"_278":4770,"_150":2658},"6ada0dd5ec61",[],{"_30":4772,"_16":277,"_278":4773,"_150":4775},"87b6ce40e14a",[4774],"0275f1a",". He had a personal goal of reaching 2000 employees and we reached 2000 employees and he kept",{"_30":4777,"_16":277,"_278":4778,"_150":2658},"500b392c0883",[],{"_30":4780,"_16":277,"_278":4781,"_150":4783},"6f5a44f396d5",[4782],"6045eb8","doing it. So by the time I left, he was still doing it.",[4785,4787,4789,4791],{"_30":4755,"_16":2666,"_2667":4786},"00:14:31.200",{"_30":4766,"_16":2666,"_2667":4788},"00:14:36.680",{"_30":4774,"_16":2666,"_2667":4790},"00:14:42.640",{"_30":4782,"_16":2666,"_2667":4792},"00:14:46.760",{"_30":4794,"_16":272,"_273":4795,"_281":4820,"_283":284},"0a7f1f0facf6",[4796,4800,4804,4807,4812,4815],{"_30":4797,"_16":277,"_278":4798,"_150":3047},"63de09648080",[4799,389],"63ae265",{"_30":4801,"_16":277,"_278":4802,"_150":4803},"77043df93f3e",[4799]," Yeah, and that's why I love the PostHog founders mentioned that they interview every employee",{"_30":4805,"_16":277,"_278":4806,"_150":2658},"0cb02aa93c22",[],{"_30":4808,"_16":277,"_278":4809,"_150":4811},"0dbd6a2a882f",[4810],"5f7f882","and I don't know if that scales, but like to really keep the culture and the bar of hiring,",{"_30":4813,"_16":277,"_278":4814,"_150":2658},"5965f9d3c8f3",[],{"_30":4816,"_16":277,"_278":4817,"_150":4819},"397789b694a1",[4818],"307ef79","I think that's important.",[4821,4823,4825],{"_30":4799,"_16":2666,"_2667":4822},"00:14:50.200",{"_30":4810,"_16":2666,"_2667":4824},"00:14:55.500",{"_30":4818,"_16":2666,"_2667":4826},"00:15:00.180",{"_30":4828,"_16":272,"_273":4829,"_281":4851,"_283":284},"b02a8386eb91",[4830,4835,4838,4843,4846],{"_30":4831,"_16":277,"_278":4832,"_150":4834},"16b9774050c0",[4833],"b6ff38c","Switching to community, HashiCorp is such a model for",{"_30":4836,"_16":277,"_278":4837,"_150":2658},"ce951e739e88",[],{"_30":4839,"_16":277,"_278":4840,"_150":4842},"88d78972925f",[4841],"5224f0c","open source and building a really strong community. What do you think we did really early on that",{"_30":4844,"_16":277,"_278":4845,"_150":2658},"111bee8f214c",[],{"_30":4847,"_16":277,"_278":4848,"_150":4850},"09a9f2d67ee6",[4849],"b6ca59f","helped build and how did it scale?",[4852,4853,4855],{"_30":4833,"_16":2666,"_2667":4826},{"_30":4841,"_16":2666,"_2667":4854},"00:15:05.940",{"_30":4849,"_16":2666,"_2667":4856},"00:15:10.380",{"_30":4858,"_16":272,"_273":4859,"_281":4863,"_283":284},"a098a7006b1f",[4860],{"_30":4861,"_16":277,"_278":4862,"_150":1039},"f0fdb7985bba",[],[],{"_30":4865,"_16":272,"_273":4866,"_281":4871,"_283":405},"bc84b498605c",[4867],{"_30":4868,"_16":277,"_278":4869,"_150":4870},"e266e59124ce",[],"Community as Human Connection",[],{"_30":4873,"_16":272,"_273":4874,"_281":4878,"_283":284},"bdc4ff56848e",[4875],{"_30":4876,"_16":277,"_278":4877,"_150":1039},"7ef18090dacd",[],[],{"_30":4880,"_16":272,"_273":4881,"_281":4922,"_283":284},"60609829ea51",[4882,4886,4890,4893,4898,4901,4906,4909,4914,4917],{"_30":4883,"_16":277,"_278":4884,"_150":3104},"99e49324c7c4",[4885,389],"8f92614",{"_30":4887,"_16":277,"_278":4888,"_150":4889},"8e4aa28ab65d",[4885]," Yeah. At least 10 years ago, I think a very differentiating",{"_30":4891,"_16":277,"_278":4892,"_150":2658},"f74a927a58aa",[],{"_30":4894,"_16":277,"_278":4895,"_150":4897},"1ed591902d2d",[4896],"e7f0f09","factor of ours was the community and something I took really seriously. So one of the reasons Armon",{"_30":4899,"_16":277,"_278":4900,"_150":2658},"cd60eda5c1eb",[],{"_30":4902,"_16":277,"_278":4903,"_150":4905},"3dc4ac3c22cf",[4904],"4bf6ded","was onboarding everyone and I wasn't was because I was trying to spend personal time with members of",{"_30":4907,"_16":277,"_278":4908,"_150":2658},"7a71f6acea56",[],{"_30":4910,"_16":277,"_278":4911,"_150":4913},"43b1374b7de3",[4912],"824872a","the community that weren't customers, weren't ever going to be customers.",{"_30":4915,"_16":277,"_278":4916,"_150":2658},"61a047ca3843",[],{"_30":4918,"_16":277,"_278":4919,"_150":4921},"d83bcf28e73a",[4920],"8b90e8d","He was onboarding employees, I was onboarding the community.",[4923,4925,4927,4929,4931],{"_30":4885,"_16":2666,"_2667":4924},"00:15:13.500",{"_30":4896,"_16":2666,"_2667":4926},"00:15:19.020",{"_30":4904,"_16":2666,"_2667":4928},"00:15:24.880",{"_30":4912,"_16":2666,"_2667":4930},"00:15:29.800",{"_30":4920,"_16":2666,"_2667":4932},"00:15:33.840",{"_30":4934,"_16":272,"_273":4935,"_281":4973,"_283":284},"f8fed925fef3",[4936,4941,4944,4949,4952,4957,4960,4965,4968],{"_30":4937,"_16":277,"_278":4938,"_150":4940},"2059613cc0f5",[4939],"069c6d6","I think one thing",{"_30":4942,"_16":277,"_278":4943,"_150":2658},"7d05d94d1ed6",[],{"_30":4945,"_16":277,"_278":4946,"_150":4948},"0e7c21e8eec6",[4947],"91913ff","that I feel like is sort of lost today is it was really personal. And for whatever reason, I",{"_30":4950,"_16":277,"_278":4951,"_150":2658},"44a75a4f1e71",[],{"_30":4953,"_16":277,"_278":4954,"_150":4956},"f98f8b4152cc",[4955],"df2768e","really can't pinpoint it on one thing. I think Covid did have a big impact in shifting this. But",{"_30":4958,"_16":277,"_278":4959,"_150":2658},"95ea880a0284",[],{"_30":4961,"_16":277,"_278":4962,"_150":4964},"d91d04bf8f78",[4963],"a63ff62","everything around product and DevRel and community events and stuff with technical tools feels a lot",{"_30":4966,"_16":277,"_278":4967,"_150":2658},"81dc5267a98c",[],{"_30":4969,"_16":277,"_278":4970,"_150":4972},"a3ab6a0eccce",[4971],"b57d0e4","less personal, like your interaction with people...",[4974,4975,4977,4979,4981],{"_30":4939,"_16":2666,"_2667":4932},{"_30":4947,"_16":2666,"_2667":4976},"00:15:39.040",{"_30":4955,"_16":2666,"_2667":4978},"00:15:46.120",{"_30":4963,"_16":2666,"_2667":4980},"00:15:51.310",{"_30":4971,"_16":2666,"_2667":4982},"00:15:59.150",{"_30":4984,"_16":272,"_273":4985,"_281":5015,"_283":284},"cc87e14905d7",[4986,4991,4994,4999,5002,5007,5010],{"_30":4987,"_16":277,"_278":4988,"_150":4990},"85edf91beba3",[4989],"71715ab","I'll flip it the other way, at HashiCorp,",{"_30":4992,"_16":277,"_278":4993,"_150":2658},"70ca6f6c1a64",[],{"_30":4995,"_16":277,"_278":4996,"_150":4998},"429b83130545",[4997],"b217e47","at these community events you would always interact directly with me or an engineer on the team.",{"_30":5000,"_16":277,"_278":5001,"_150":2658},"77869bf5a9de",[],{"_30":5003,"_16":277,"_278":5004,"_150":5006},"db4ee83813d8",[5005],"ea2eded","There was not a DevRel person. There was not people in the middle ears directly with these",{"_30":5008,"_16":277,"_278":5009,"_150":2658},"015e1fbf8cd5",[],{"_30":5011,"_16":277,"_278":5012,"_150":5014},"1d25b7967aae",[5013],"e2f721d","people that worked on the product.",[5016,5017,5019,5021],{"_30":4989,"_16":2666,"_2667":4982},{"_30":4997,"_16":2666,"_2667":5018},"00:16:06.510",{"_30":5005,"_16":2666,"_2667":5020},"00:16:12.270",{"_30":5013,"_16":2666,"_2667":5022},"00:16:17.440",{"_30":5024,"_16":272,"_273":5025,"_281":5063,"_283":284},"63ce4fb70232",[5026,5031,5034,5039,5042,5047,5050,5055,5058],{"_30":5027,"_16":277,"_278":5028,"_150":5030},"088c80adce5e",[5029],"1e2bc4f","And also it was generally with smaller",{"_30":5032,"_16":277,"_278":5033,"_150":2658},"c0396cf99510",[],{"_30":5035,"_16":277,"_278":5036,"_150":5038},"702b5b55c97a",[5037],"38df72d","companies and I will point and blame that I think the big companies like Amazon,",{"_30":5040,"_16":277,"_278":5041,"_150":2658},"3831e015b807",[],{"_30":5043,"_16":277,"_278":5044,"_150":5046},"d3abbe2aa721",[5045],"fa4137d","Google, etc. poisoned the well a little bit because they sort of figured out the strategy",{"_30":5048,"_16":277,"_278":5049,"_150":2658},"a5bc215b5a1b",[],{"_30":5051,"_16":277,"_278":5052,"_150":5054},"fe30172c2143",[5053],"dd3f74e","and started systematizing it. I remember at a certain point realizing that Amazon was",{"_30":5056,"_16":277,"_278":5057,"_150":2658},"5ec186112d17",[],{"_30":5059,"_16":277,"_278":5060,"_150":5062},"fc737e656bab",[5061],"3034afb","just like paying for DevRel to go to literally every single event and be present.",[5064,5065,5067,5069,5071],{"_30":5029,"_16":2666,"_2667":5022},{"_30":5037,"_16":2666,"_2667":5066},"00:16:24.400",{"_30":5045,"_16":2666,"_2667":5068},"00:16:30.080",{"_30":5053,"_16":2666,"_2667":5070},"00:16:35.640",{"_30":5061,"_16":2666,"_2667":5072},"00:16:41.480",{"_30":5074,"_16":272,"_273":5075,"_281":5097,"_283":284},"481613553761",[5076,5081,5084,5089,5092],{"_30":5077,"_16":277,"_278":5078,"_150":5080},"87d4dac15c86",[5079],"229a858","And I think that",{"_30":5082,"_16":277,"_278":5083,"_150":2658},"28aa2a2acefd",[],{"_30":5085,"_16":277,"_278":5086,"_150":5088},"be8c2568c3b2",[5087],"6abd7e2","lowers the authenticity. Not because of the people they're sending, but because there's",{"_30":5090,"_16":277,"_278":5091,"_150":2658},"b9e38e6224b1",[],{"_30":5093,"_16":277,"_278":5094,"_150":5096},"57d2fa21a59c",[5095],"438d3d7","people in the middle of what you're trying to reach.",[5098,5099,5101],{"_30":5079,"_16":2666,"_2667":5072},{"_30":5087,"_16":2666,"_2667":5100},"00:16:46.120",{"_30":5095,"_16":2666,"_2667":5102},"00:16:50.600",{"_30":5104,"_16":272,"_273":5105,"_281":5151,"_283":704},"78004ab3ce45",[5106,5111,5114,5119,5122,5127,5130,5135,5138,5143,5146],{"_30":5107,"_16":277,"_278":5108,"_150":5110},"f6e39db62525",[5109],"2ef7fe3","We were at that point where you",{"_30":5112,"_16":277,"_278":5113,"_150":2658},"9a006f71099e",[],{"_30":5115,"_16":277,"_278":5116,"_150":5118},"2b5ce7f317e0",[5117],"77f7b8d","would go to a developer event and 100% of the speakers were just the people who built",{"_30":5120,"_16":277,"_278":5121,"_150":2658},"f1a41cd12b29",[],{"_30":5123,"_16":277,"_278":5124,"_150":5126},"5d7180e0b399",[5125],"b43aae8","the product. That was who it really was. There was no marketing happening. It was",{"_30":5128,"_16":277,"_278":5129,"_150":2658},"20a6163f3c57",[],{"_30":5131,"_16":277,"_278":5132,"_150":5134},"1f42de7296b0",[5133],"55a4a09","just people passionate about what they were building, sharing what they were building. And I",{"_30":5136,"_16":277,"_278":5137,"_150":2658},"04e9b466c47e",[],{"_30":5139,"_16":277,"_278":5140,"_150":5142},"e01ab60a0864",[5141],"89002e8","think that makes a big difference. And I think it makes a big difference in terms of loyalty as",{"_30":5144,"_16":277,"_278":5145,"_150":2658},"814fa8b69f26",[],{"_30":5147,"_16":277,"_278":5148,"_150":5150},"6bc72fef04bd",[5149],"c54ae12","well.",[5152,5153,5155,5157,5159,5161],{"_30":5109,"_16":2666,"_2667":5102},{"_30":5117,"_16":2666,"_2667":5154},"00:16:56.000",{"_30":5125,"_16":2666,"_2667":5156},"00:17:01.640",{"_30":5133,"_16":2666,"_2667":5158},"00:17:06.040",{"_30":5141,"_16":2666,"_2667":5160},"00:17:09.240",{"_30":5149,"_16":2666,"_2667":5162},"00:17:13.089",{"_30":5164,"_16":272,"_273":5165,"_281":5187,"_283":284},"18138cff7410",[5166,5171,5174,5179,5182],{"_30":5167,"_16":277,"_278":5168,"_150":5170},"ef45d5c7ae38",[5169],"6e45b6a","As better products came out, as competitors came out, I think we",{"_30":5172,"_16":277,"_278":5173,"_150":2658},"d045d82fc504",[],{"_30":5175,"_16":277,"_278":5176,"_150":5178},"1631797bde01",[5177],"cf69feb","were able to retain this really strong, like, \"No, but we want, we want the HashiCorp tool to work,\"",{"_30":5180,"_16":277,"_278":5181,"_150":2658},"1744b39dab96",[],{"_30":5183,"_16":277,"_278":5184,"_150":5186},"f21acd0a3e57",[5185],"a7f09ca","because you're connecting to people, you don't really connect to products.",[5188,5189,5191],{"_30":5169,"_16":2666,"_2667":5162},{"_30":5177,"_16":2666,"_2667":5190},"00:17:19.009",{"_30":5185,"_16":2666,"_2667":5192},"00:17:23.969",{"_30":5194,"_16":272,"_273":5195,"_281":5217,"_283":284},"caddda00cf5d",[5196,5201,5204,5209,5212],{"_30":5197,"_16":277,"_278":5198,"_150":5200},"b32cac5fe1db",[5199],"82c85b9","Personally, I have no problem switching from one product to another. I have no loyalty to a product.",{"_30":5202,"_16":277,"_278":5203,"_150":2658},"5db1f22b5496",[],{"_30":5205,"_16":277,"_278":5206,"_150":5208},"4c62f667ffc1",[5207],"a5d5cb2","But if I know the people that work on the product, I have more loyalty to a human than the product.",{"_30":5210,"_16":277,"_278":5211,"_150":2658},"0f0855d322fd",[],{"_30":5213,"_16":277,"_278":5214,"_150":5216},"ae26649e52da",[5215],"78de82a","And actually, in the AI world, I feel this a lot right now.",[5218,5220,5222],{"_30":5199,"_16":2666,"_2667":5219},"00:17:29.169",{"_30":5207,"_16":2666,"_2667":5221},"00:17:34.689",{"_30":5215,"_16":2666,"_2667":5223},"00:17:39.729",{"_30":5225,"_16":272,"_273":5226,"_281":5264,"_283":284},"7238de9e1aae",[5227,5232,5235,5240,5243,5248,5251,5256,5259],{"_30":5228,"_16":277,"_278":5229,"_150":5231},"d31c2bbdc2ed",[5230],"0bfc110","I know Quinn and I know Sourcegraph.",{"_30":5233,"_16":277,"_278":5234,"_150":2658},"c3b5b5839873",[],{"_30":5236,"_16":277,"_278":5237,"_150":5239},"146d11912c37",[5238],"73b19dd","So actually I'm really excited about Amp. But as much as I like the other tools in the space and",{"_30":5241,"_16":277,"_278":5242,"_150":2658},"fea9a476a5e1",[],{"_30":5244,"_16":277,"_278":5245,"_150":5247},"4775333a9da2",[5246],"b373158","I've interacted with community people, I don't know who's working on it. I've",{"_30":5249,"_16":277,"_278":5250,"_150":2658},"683c971d91cd",[],{"_30":5252,"_16":277,"_278":5253,"_150":5255},"bc2ffb597d91",[5254],"1e7f6fa","never met anyone. So, I'll switch, I don't care. You know, I don't feel that way about",{"_30":5257,"_16":277,"_278":5258,"_150":2658},"de53b89a3d39",[],{"_30":5260,"_16":277,"_278":5261,"_150":5263},"973def26a1f1",[5262],"163abb8","that. And I think that's really important.",[5265,5266,5268,5270,5272],{"_30":5230,"_16":2666,"_2667":5223},{"_30":5238,"_16":2666,"_2667":5267},"00:17:45.140",{"_30":5246,"_16":2666,"_2667":5269},"00:17:49.900",{"_30":5254,"_16":2666,"_2667":5271},"00:17:54.900",{"_30":5262,"_16":2666,"_2667":5273},"00:18:00.380",{"_30":5275,"_16":272,"_273":5276,"_281":5290,"_283":704},"a0f37fc4270e",[5277,5282,5285],{"_30":5278,"_16":277,"_278":5279,"_150":5281},"356a246b0e8f",[5280],"e27114b","The point is community should be",{"_30":5283,"_16":277,"_278":5284,"_150":2658},"f15926242af3",[],{"_30":5286,"_16":277,"_278":5287,"_150":5289},"3af970d14126",[5288],"71a9c52","authentic and I think community is human.",[5291,5292],{"_30":5280,"_16":2666,"_2667":5273},{"_30":5288,"_16":2666,"_2667":5293},"00:18:04.620",{"_30":5295,"_16":272,"_273":5296,"_281":5305,"_283":284},"9b4e4751d5a7",[5297,5301],{"_30":5298,"_16":277,"_278":5299,"_150":3047},"c6540ec8d77a",[5300,389],"1b76860",{"_30":5302,"_16":277,"_278":5303,"_150":5304},"ff53ca620be6",[5300]," Yeah. And it was loyalty more to you and Armon and the engineering team?",[5306],{"_30":5300,"_16":2666,"_2667":5307},"00:18:07.620",{"_30":5309,"_16":272,"_273":5310,"_281":5319,"_283":284},"36b43851a2d5",[5311,5315],{"_30":5312,"_16":277,"_278":5313,"_150":3104},"4d47eaea35cc",[5314,389],"d776efe",{"_30":5316,"_16":277,"_278":5317,"_150":5318},"6417d9709477",[5314]," I think so, yeah. It was always human.",[5320],{"_30":5314,"_16":2666,"_2667":5321},"00:18:15.230",{"_30":5323,"_16":272,"_273":5324,"_281":5357,"_283":284},"fd2189d3d38a",[5325,5329,5333,5336,5341,5344,5349,5352],{"_30":5326,"_16":277,"_278":5327,"_150":3047},"1a30f96ba9a4",[5328,389],"2d2fc61",{"_30":5330,"_16":277,"_278":5331,"_150":5332},"957add331aa3",[5328]," Something that made my job a little bit easier at HashiCorp was that community was ingrained in",{"_30":5334,"_16":277,"_278":5335,"_150":2658},"dba3ffc4419e",[],{"_30":5337,"_16":277,"_278":5338,"_150":5340},"dcb0f7b2b72e",[5339],"d6d9c0b","everything we did, right? From how customer success responded to a ticket, because when",{"_30":5342,"_16":277,"_278":5343,"_150":2658},"5b0a4bdd9e91",[],{"_30":5345,"_16":277,"_278":5346,"_150":5348},"97fd98adff22",[5347],"e93cb54","Mitchell open sourced his first project, Vagrant, he was like, \"oh, I don't have a lot of",{"_30":5350,"_16":277,"_278":5351,"_150":2658},"1acab069d667",[],{"_30":5353,"_16":277,"_278":5354,"_150":5356},"c2f13d2d37dd",[5355],"9b5d551","downloads.\"",[5358,5360,5362,5364],{"_30":5328,"_16":2666,"_2667":5359},"00:18:18.990",{"_30":5339,"_16":2666,"_2667":5361},"00:18:24.590",{"_30":5347,"_16":2666,"_2667":5363},"00:18:32.790",{"_30":5355,"_16":2666,"_2667":5365},"00:18:36.310",{"_30":5367,"_16":272,"_273":5368,"_281":5390,"_283":284},"7ad02573f570",[5369,5374,5377,5382,5385],{"_30":5370,"_16":277,"_278":5371,"_150":5373},"cd337ca8cd28",[5372],"37e5630","But then once he started posting on Twitter and being more public and speaking at",{"_30":5375,"_16":277,"_278":5376,"_150":2658},"8b4a4abd9220",[],{"_30":5378,"_16":277,"_278":5379,"_150":5381},"d4b578608266",[5380],"a46602e","meetups and conferences, he learned how to grow open source projects. So",{"_30":5383,"_16":277,"_278":5384,"_150":2658},"6dda481a95f0",[],{"_30":5386,"_16":277,"_278":5387,"_150":5389},"df011c466cad",[5388],"67fe8a0","we already had the framework ingrained.",[5391,5392,5394],{"_30":5372,"_16":2666,"_2667":5365},{"_30":5380,"_16":2666,"_2667":5393},"00:18:41.470",{"_30":5388,"_16":2666,"_2667":5395},"00:18:46.350",{"_30":5397,"_16":272,"_273":5398,"_281":5415,"_283":284},"862b3be7630e",[5399,5403,5407,5410],{"_30":5400,"_16":277,"_278":5401,"_150":3104},"78070884c373",[5402,389],"108c782",{"_30":5404,"_16":277,"_278":5405,"_150":5406},"fe16f4098acb",[5402]," Yeah, and early on, I think support is a really good example. Support honestly pisses me off all the",{"_30":5408,"_16":277,"_278":5409,"_150":2658},"0e186f03d4ab",[],{"_30":5411,"_16":277,"_278":5412,"_150":5414},"6381e96bf43b",[5413],"35cc379","time. Not at HashiCorp. Yes, at HashiCorp, but everywhere. And it feels so impersonal.",[5416,5418],{"_30":5402,"_16":2666,"_2667":5417},"00:18:50.270",{"_30":5413,"_16":2666,"_2667":5419},"00:18:55.630",{"_30":5421,"_16":272,"_273":5422,"_281":5460,"_283":284},"73c84ad2111a",[5423,5428,5431,5436,5439,5444,5447,5452,5455],{"_30":5424,"_16":277,"_278":5425,"_150":5427},"fb238639c802",[5426],"aeab844","And",{"_30":5429,"_16":277,"_278":5430,"_150":2658},"8528d4c48af1",[],{"_30":5432,"_16":277,"_278":5433,"_150":5435},"dc405be894e5",[5434],"8a10258","early on at HashiCorp, this feels a little bit like Big Brothery, but I would watch every single",{"_30":5437,"_16":277,"_278":5438,"_150":2658},"32963c69c59e",[],{"_30":5440,"_16":277,"_278":5441,"_150":5443},"6a815a2c7f3a",[5442],"988385e","support interaction and I would, metaphorically, we were remote, so",{"_30":5445,"_16":277,"_278":5446,"_150":2658},"e777b2399e7a",[],{"_30":5448,"_16":277,"_278":5449,"_150":5451},"84879ab1cc66",[5450],"78ba86c","metaphorically, I would tap on the shoulder of the support person and be like, \"don't talk to",{"_30":5453,"_16":277,"_278":5454,"_150":2658},"91a85974ece1",[],{"_30":5456,"_16":277,"_278":5457,"_150":5459},"2f210e0d554a",[5458],"8d34290","them that way.\"",[5461,5462,5464,5466,5468],{"_30":5426,"_16":2666,"_2667":5419},{"_30":5434,"_16":2666,"_2667":5463},"00:19:01.860",{"_30":5442,"_16":2666,"_2667":5465},"00:19:07.660",{"_30":5450,"_16":2666,"_2667":5467},"00:19:11.180",{"_30":5458,"_16":2666,"_2667":5469},"00:19:15.260",{"_30":5471,"_16":272,"_273":5472,"_281":5494,"_283":284},"83a4d3a7d14c",[5473,5478,5481,5486,5489],{"_30":5474,"_16":277,"_278":5475,"_150":5477},"825355d943a6",[5476],"2801a35","You know, I worked at the Apple Store in college, retail, and they",{"_30":5479,"_16":277,"_278":5480,"_150":2658},"9f005878252f",[],{"_30":5482,"_16":277,"_278":5483,"_150":5485},"2a985b83c24b",[5484],"d8576d2","always taught you this thing. Of course it was an acronym for Apple, because it's",{"_30":5487,"_16":277,"_278":5488,"_150":2658},"04256afb5469",[],{"_30":5490,"_16":277,"_278":5491,"_150":5493},"af0ae5c6690e",[5492],"bf2720c","like a cult.",[5495,5496,5498],{"_30":5476,"_16":2666,"_2667":5469},{"_30":5484,"_16":2666,"_2667":5497},"00:19:21.420",{"_30":5492,"_16":2666,"_2667":5499},"00:19:24.660",{"_30":5501,"_16":272,"_273":5502,"_281":5511,"_283":284},"6e4ac7288920",[5503,5507],{"_30":5504,"_16":277,"_278":5505,"_150":3047},"c4381712fa52",[5506,389],"b181cc1",{"_30":5508,"_16":277,"_278":5509,"_150":5510},"bcbddfe17350",[5506]," But HashiCorp wasn't?",[5512],{"_30":5506,"_16":2666,"_2667":5513},"00:19:29.230",{"_30":5515,"_16":272,"_273":5516,"_281":5525,"_283":284},"a6f17f4e45b6",[5517,5521],{"_30":5518,"_16":277,"_278":5519,"_150":3104},"92509f54cce4",[5520,389],"7120b03",{"_30":5522,"_16":277,"_278":5523,"_150":5524},"99bb14cad71f",[5520]," We tried.",[5526],{"_30":5520,"_16":2666,"_2667":5527},"00:19:30.030",{"_30":5529,"_16":272,"_273":5530,"_281":5539,"_283":284},"5a600399bc9c",[5531,5535],{"_30":5532,"_16":277,"_278":5533,"_150":3047},"c5324c17bdd9",[5534,389],"8976763",{"_30":5536,"_16":277,"_278":5537,"_150":5538},"e85982708928",[5534]," That big glowing H we always had at our conference.",[5540],{"_30":5534,"_16":2666,"_2667":5541},"00:19:32.630",{"_30":5543,"_16":272,"_273":5544,"_281":5569,"_283":284},"19489d9d5994",[5545,5549,5553,5556,5561,5564],{"_30":5546,"_16":277,"_278":5547,"_150":3104},"8f1c28e657b3",[5548,389],"afcc777",{"_30":5550,"_16":277,"_278":5551,"_150":5552},"1c4f726f193d",[5548]," Very church-like. But at Apple, one of the first things you did before you sold someone a",{"_30":5554,"_16":277,"_278":5555,"_150":2658},"db8733a5074e",[],{"_30":5557,"_16":277,"_278":5558,"_150":5560},"cea80983f363",[5559],"1c1f5ce","device was they taught you to learn more about that person and empathize with the problem",{"_30":5562,"_16":277,"_278":5563,"_150":2658},"aae4f8c83a39",[],{"_30":5565,"_16":277,"_278":5566,"_150":5568},"8a02f49aeebd",[5567],"eed2498","they're trying to solve, because there was no commission or anything at the Apple Store.",[5570,5572,5574],{"_30":5548,"_16":2666,"_2667":5571},"00:19:35.670",{"_30":5559,"_16":2666,"_2667":5573},"00:19:43.530",{"_30":5567,"_16":2666,"_2667":5575},"00:19:49.350",{"_30":5577,"_16":272,"_273":5578,"_281":5616,"_283":284},"0a0809c4ac9f",[5579,5584,5587,5592,5595,5600,5603,5608,5611],{"_30":5580,"_16":277,"_278":5581,"_150":5583},"bc2f6e99783c",[5582],"aa5351d","So",{"_30":5585,"_16":277,"_278":5586,"_150":2658},"ed3bf3be1d8b",[],{"_30":5588,"_16":277,"_278":5589,"_150":5591},"764438ceb39c",[5590],"0bf2da8","you wanted to sell them the correct device for their needs. Because a",{"_30":5593,"_16":277,"_278":5594,"_150":2658},"4b4ede0254ab",[],{"_30":5596,"_16":277,"_278":5597,"_150":5599},"732b6b7b9457",[5598],"1639d94","lot of people come in and just say, \"I want this computer. This is exactly what I want.\" And they",{"_30":5601,"_16":277,"_278":5602,"_150":2658},"1ac10d568b57",[],{"_30":5604,"_16":277,"_278":5605,"_150":5607},"b69b290e119e",[5606],"7d6e1eb","could be wrong and then they get a bad taste of the whole company. So, yeah, there was a lot of",{"_30":5609,"_16":277,"_278":5610,"_150":2658},"4f3d7267e6f2",[],{"_30":5612,"_16":277,"_278":5613,"_150":5615},"68c4dd922835",[5614],"6a9b857","support requests that came in that was like, this is my problem. It's like, here's a solution.",[5617,5618,5620,5622,5624],{"_30":5582,"_16":2666,"_2667":5575},{"_30":5590,"_16":2666,"_2667":5619},"00:19:52.390",{"_30":5598,"_16":2666,"_2667":5621},"00:19:57.140",{"_30":5606,"_16":2666,"_2667":5623},"00:20:01.580",{"_30":5614,"_16":2666,"_2667":5625},"00:20:06.140",{"_30":5627,"_16":272,"_273":5628,"_281":5650,"_283":284},"c5c9c9e4742b",[5629,5634,5637,5642,5645],{"_30":5630,"_16":277,"_278":5631,"_150":5633},"583ecc43d1d2",[5632],"2711e07","And the solution's good. But I always try to encourage people to learn about this person.",{"_30":5635,"_16":277,"_278":5636,"_150":2658},"c933351c3c85",[],{"_30":5638,"_16":277,"_278":5639,"_150":5641},"db0bad613611",[5640],"401467a","Like, what do they do? Why are they solving this? Are they happy? Empathize a little bit. And",{"_30":5643,"_16":277,"_278":5644,"_150":2658},"659d98a1a1ee",[],{"_30":5646,"_16":277,"_278":5647,"_150":5649},"7887f9696904",[5648],"24b9e77","we lost that as we scaled up. But I think we would be better.",[5651,5653,5655],{"_30":5632,"_16":2666,"_2667":5652},"00:20:10.260",{"_30":5640,"_16":2666,"_2667":5654},"00:20:15.540",{"_30":5648,"_16":2666,"_2667":5656},"00:20:21.890",{"_30":5658,"_16":272,"_273":5659,"_281":5681,"_283":284},"f27d61582a83",[5660,5665,5668,5673,5676],{"_30":5661,"_16":277,"_278":5662,"_150":5664},"f67d35aa752a",[5663],"5faf3a4","It obviously scales to a retail",{"_30":5666,"_16":277,"_278":5667,"_150":2658},"01a73ee39ed5",[],{"_30":5669,"_16":277,"_278":5670,"_150":5672},"4404275806eb",[5671],"5bb2842","level of Apple. I think we would be better if all interactions were that way. And I think, again, it",{"_30":5674,"_16":277,"_278":5675,"_150":2658},"41a960513948",[],{"_30":5677,"_16":277,"_278":5678,"_150":5680},"e4108b089531",[5679],"7610478","builds loyalty, it pays off from a company perspective, but it's also just a good thing to do.",[5682,5683,5685],{"_30":5663,"_16":2666,"_2667":5656},{"_30":5671,"_16":2666,"_2667":5684},"00:20:27.390",{"_30":5679,"_16":2666,"_2667":5686},"00:20:32.110",{"_30":5688,"_16":272,"_273":5689,"_281":5706,"_283":284},"90324a3f7b77",[5690,5694,5698,5701],{"_30":5691,"_16":277,"_278":5692,"_150":3047},"f860f954f129",[5693,389],"3d83761",{"_30":5695,"_16":277,"_278":5696,"_150":5697},"d702e53d3969",[5693]," And how do you think the community and the DevRel playbooks have changed from when we were doing",{"_30":5699,"_16":277,"_278":5700,"_150":2658},"d6c1afdd76f4",[],{"_30":5702,"_16":277,"_278":5703,"_150":5705},"c7e8f3148cdb",[5704],"aaf901e","community to today?",[5707,5709],{"_30":5693,"_16":2666,"_2667":5708},"00:20:37.870",{"_30":5704,"_16":2666,"_2667":5710},"00:20:43.390",{"_30":5712,"_16":272,"_273":5713,"_281":5746,"_283":284},"c360b0ab6b3e",[5714,5718,5722,5725,5730,5733,5738,5741],{"_30":5715,"_16":277,"_278":5716,"_150":3104},"98da90d9d939",[5717,389],"9c12597",{"_30":5719,"_16":277,"_278":5720,"_150":5721},"26ad7b6a3375",[5717]," Oh, it's totally different. Weekly, I talk to new founders. It's where I spend most of my time",{"_30":5723,"_16":277,"_278":5724,"_150":2658},"d3602d9b6964",[],{"_30":5726,"_16":277,"_278":5727,"_150":5729},"3703b12b1b74",[5728],"86de3d7","right now is talking to founders, advising companies, things like that. And weekly, I'll talk to",{"_30":5731,"_16":277,"_278":5732,"_150":2658},"2d05f671188c",[],{"_30":5734,"_16":277,"_278":5735,"_150":5737},"8c88fb34e029",[5736],"24b5794","people where it's like, \"oh, I want to learn and copy the HashiCorp Playbook.\" And I'm like nope,",{"_30":5739,"_16":277,"_278":5740,"_150":2658},"6344a027137a",[],{"_30":5742,"_16":277,"_278":5743,"_150":5745},"45de7164b45b",[5744],"e5dc75b","light it all on fire.",[5747,5749,5751,5753],{"_30":5717,"_16":2666,"_2667":5748},"00:20:44.910",{"_30":5728,"_16":2666,"_2667":5750},"00:20:50.280",{"_30":5736,"_16":2666,"_2667":5752},"00:20:55.560",{"_30":5744,"_16":2666,"_2667":5754},"00:20:59.960",{"_30":5756,"_16":272,"_273":5757,"_281":5787,"_283":704},"1aa03f6f73b8",[5758,5763,5766,5771,5774,5779,5782],{"_30":5759,"_16":277,"_278":5760,"_150":5762},"b84eaa2149de",[5761],"2769688","It doesn't work anymore. The world is different. The world has",{"_30":5764,"_16":277,"_278":5765,"_150":2658},"f6063e245d48",[],{"_30":5767,"_16":277,"_278":5768,"_150":5770},"757a16201eb8",[5769],"9e38f42","changed. None of it will be successful anymore. But I think the abstract nature of",{"_30":5772,"_16":277,"_278":5773,"_150":2658},"e3ed676e0c56",[],{"_30":5775,"_16":277,"_278":5776,"_150":5778},"5939b86b5b81",[5777],"d2c79b8","it is still right. Connect with people, build that loyalty, build something exciting.",{"_30":5780,"_16":277,"_278":5781,"_150":2658},"16a61ff4c763",[],{"_30":5783,"_16":277,"_278":5784,"_150":5786},"fe4125702964",[5785],"5768d69","Build something that when people use it, they smile.",[5788,5789,5791,5793],{"_30":5761,"_16":2666,"_2667":5754},{"_30":5769,"_16":2666,"_2667":5790},"00:21:05.080",{"_30":5777,"_16":2666,"_2667":5792},"00:21:12.200",{"_30":5785,"_16":2666,"_2667":5794},"00:21:17.050",{"_30":5796,"_16":272,"_273":5797,"_281":5835,"_283":284},"98c683cdc3e5",[5798,5803,5806,5811,5814,5819,5822,5827,5830],{"_30":5799,"_16":277,"_278":5800,"_150":5802},"9e0013a5fef7",[5801],"377d748","Things like that. Don't be",{"_30":5804,"_16":277,"_278":5805,"_150":2658},"934ab8be4fbc",[],{"_30":5807,"_16":277,"_278":5808,"_150":5810},"3b5aeb2c6316",[5809],"8b18356","gross, just really basic things. But the medium by which you disseminate that information is",{"_30":5812,"_16":277,"_278":5813,"_150":2658},"f2975c155d5c",[],{"_30":5815,"_16":277,"_278":5816,"_150":5818},"48e24c42aff5",[5817],"2c547cf","totally different now. It used to be in person conferences, you just talked directly to people. Now",{"_30":5820,"_16":277,"_278":5821,"_150":2658},"ee0fd195b171",[],{"_30":5823,"_16":277,"_278":5824,"_150":5826},"c980a69ab9de",[5825],"a268027","there's a lot of media involved in it, a lot of attention grabbing, things like that, it's a little",{"_30":5828,"_16":277,"_278":5829,"_150":2658},"680929f092de",[],{"_30":5831,"_16":277,"_278":5832,"_150":5834},"2db8c955b689",[5833],"9953bbb","bit different.",[5836,5837,5839,5841,5843],{"_30":5801,"_16":2666,"_2667":5794},{"_30":5809,"_16":2666,"_2667":5838},"00:21:21.890",{"_30":5817,"_16":2666,"_2667":5840},"00:21:27.530",{"_30":5825,"_16":2666,"_2667":5842},"00:21:31.170",{"_30":5833,"_16":2666,"_2667":5844},"00:21:36.690",{"_30":5846,"_16":272,"_273":5847,"_281":5878,"_283":284},"ba299b49b8da",[5848,5853,5856,5861,5864,5869,5873],{"_30":5849,"_16":277,"_278":5850,"_150":5852},"48de897a86cb",[5851],"3a7269b","But I think you could do attention grabbing in a non-slimy way",{"_30":5854,"_16":277,"_278":5855,"_150":2658},"c8cc8aeb46b3",[],{"_30":5857,"_16":277,"_278":5858,"_150":5860},"073015e9f764",[5859],"100ddc8","if you focus on those core ideas basically. Gen-Zers. Yeah, the joke I tell people is, \"just",{"_30":5862,"_16":277,"_278":5863,"_150":2658},"7f1a13142693",[],{"_30":5865,"_16":277,"_278":5866,"_150":5868},"3f851e50e8e8",[5867],"31ce0ee","hire someone, Gen Z, who agrees with your philosophy and just let them go. Just let them go do it.",{"_30":5870,"_16":277,"_278":5871,"_150":5872},"944df1e7ab3e",[]," \"",{"_30":5874,"_16":277,"_278":5875,"_150":5877},"b6daecbc9051",[5876],"4276b65","It works really well.",[5879,5880,5882,5884],{"_30":5851,"_16":2666,"_2667":5844},{"_30":5859,"_16":2666,"_2667":5881},"00:21:41.490",{"_30":5867,"_16":2666,"_2667":5883},"00:21:49.190",{"_30":5876,"_16":2666,"_2667":5885},"00:21:57.510",{"_30":5887,"_16":272,"_273":5888,"_281":5926,"_283":284},"94c1396da6fc",[5889,5894,5897,5902,5905,5910,5913,5918,5921],{"_30":5890,"_16":277,"_278":5891,"_150":5893},"56beba18684a",[5892],"9af25c0","But no, the serious thing is, it matters where you are",{"_30":5895,"_16":277,"_278":5896,"_150":2658},"0e99610652e8",[],{"_30":5898,"_16":277,"_278":5899,"_150":5901},"a84e9b181c97",[5900],"e8fcf29","sort of in the understanding of the zeitgeist, but I have found, especially with the open source that",{"_30":5903,"_16":277,"_278":5904,"_150":2658},"cff426bcf47d",[],{"_30":5906,"_16":277,"_278":5907,"_150":5909},"2be232650aeb",[5908],"fa26fc0","I work on now, a lot more successful by literally having these college students. As long as you",{"_30":5911,"_16":277,"_278":5912,"_150":2658},"513190b9dcc0",[],{"_30":5914,"_16":277,"_278":5915,"_150":5917},"4182cb9eaeb6",[5916],"aa96815","set the boundaries of no insulting people, use this sort of wording, whatever, just go off",{"_30":5919,"_16":277,"_278":5920,"_150":2658},"22b91ef36fc9",[],{"_30":5922,"_16":277,"_278":5923,"_150":5925},"ee6456f9bfad",[5924],"ed5dd5f","and do it and it works. It works to get attention.",[5927,5928,5930,5932,5934],{"_30":5892,"_16":2666,"_2667":5885},{"_30":5900,"_16":2666,"_2667":5929},"00:22:03.630",{"_30":5908,"_16":2666,"_2667":5931},"00:22:09.630",{"_30":5916,"_16":2666,"_2667":5933},"00:22:15.560",{"_30":5924,"_16":2666,"_2667":5935},"00:22:23.320",{"_30":5937,"_16":272,"_273":5938,"_281":5963,"_283":284},"58ebbda83f0f",[5939,5943,5947,5950,5955,5958],{"_30":5940,"_16":277,"_278":5941,"_150":3047},"7bf18edba7c6",[5942,389],"60715a2",{"_30":5944,"_16":277,"_278":5945,"_150":5946},"22217261f4c6",[5942]," I mean the playbooks are changing so much, right? We're watching all these AI companies, how",{"_30":5948,"_16":277,"_278":5949,"_150":2658},"2454c6bea337",[],{"_30":5951,"_16":277,"_278":5952,"_150":5954},"803b57cf2412",[5953],"1dd1550","they do direct-to-consumer or through these launch videos. It's so different from when",{"_30":5956,"_16":277,"_278":5957,"_150":2658},"04f8dfd07d4f",[],{"_30":5959,"_16":277,"_278":5960,"_150":5962},"d948ad4a3669",[5961],"661b9f9","we were doing things.",[5964,5966,5968],{"_30":5942,"_16":2666,"_2667":5965},"00:22:28.000",{"_30":5953,"_16":2666,"_2667":5967},"00:22:32.200",{"_30":5961,"_16":2666,"_2667":5969},"00:22:39.340",{"_30":5971,"_16":272,"_273":5972,"_281":5981,"_283":284},"6317c6d88540",[5973,5977],{"_30":5974,"_16":277,"_278":5975,"_150":3104},"d092ee3176a2",[5976,389],"a6c1bce",{"_30":5978,"_16":277,"_278":5979,"_150":5980},"a62bb7e97681",[5976]," Way different.",[5982],{"_30":5976,"_16":2666,"_2667":5983},"00:22:40.060",{"_30":5985,"_16":272,"_273":5986,"_281":5990,"_283":284},"57b0f43845d6",[5987],{"_30":5988,"_16":277,"_278":5989,"_150":1039},"dad04eb952c8",[],[],{"_30":5992,"_16":272,"_273":5993,"_281":5998,"_283":405},"5f5f2351390f",[5994],{"_30":5995,"_16":277,"_278":5996,"_150":5997},"40a90886e615",[],"Speaking the Language of Enterprises",[],{"_30":6000,"_16":272,"_273":6001,"_281":6005,"_283":284},"0940fe8c0b14",[6002],{"_30":6003,"_16":277,"_278":6004,"_150":1039},"68920bf29f06",[],[],{"_30":6007,"_16":272,"_273":6008,"_281":6041,"_283":284},"57f96e618084",[6009,6013,6017,6020,6025,6028,6033,6036],{"_30":6010,"_16":277,"_278":6011,"_150":3047},"8f998df1a1a6",[6012,389],"fe851b7",{"_30":6014,"_16":277,"_278":6015,"_150":6016},"d5df8071245a",[6012]," Yeah, I now kind of want to shift to, I mean we started as an open source company and then had to",{"_30":6018,"_16":277,"_278":6019,"_150":2658},"909d2649d749",[],{"_30":6021,"_16":277,"_278":6022,"_150":6024},"3dda90d67b58",[6023],"b885f8b","make the shift to building out go-to-market, building products. I mean there's lots of things",{"_30":6026,"_16":277,"_278":6027,"_150":2658},"ecd823d9db8e",[],{"_30":6029,"_16":277,"_278":6030,"_150":6032},"41c01469c335",[6031],"fedbb7f","in that. But how did we make this shift from being a purely open source and then figuring out how",{"_30":6034,"_16":277,"_278":6035,"_150":2658},"df6168fa52c9",[],{"_30":6037,"_16":277,"_278":6038,"_150":6040},"c23d1c673120",[6039],"5ea6fbe","to kind of build products?",[6042,6044,6046,6048],{"_30":6012,"_16":2666,"_2667":6043},"00:22:40.620",{"_30":6023,"_16":2666,"_2667":6045},"00:22:45.180",{"_30":6031,"_16":2666,"_2667":6047},"00:22:51.580",{"_30":6039,"_16":2666,"_2667":6049},"00:22:56.140",{"_30":6051,"_16":272,"_273":6052,"_281":6085,"_283":284},"be2ae907a895",[6053,6057,6061,6064,6069,6072,6077,6080],{"_30":6054,"_16":277,"_278":6055,"_150":3104},"df19a430c479",[6056,389],"3f42a64",{"_30":6058,"_16":277,"_278":6059,"_150":6060},"7b7e4519c14b",[6056]," Yeah, I think it applies, it's a very general application, whether you're",{"_30":6062,"_16":277,"_278":6063,"_150":2658},"2c0cdffbf967",[],{"_30":6065,"_16":277,"_278":6066,"_150":6068},"5c483b3a1af6",[6067],"bc872bf","open source or not, is that you need to solve a real problem. And a real",{"_30":6070,"_16":277,"_278":6071,"_150":2658},"5e28da362162",[],{"_30":6073,"_16":277,"_278":6074,"_150":6076},"a54de92043e1",[6075],"2678201","shift that I had to come up with was, as an engineer, I understood the technical problems we were",{"_30":6078,"_16":277,"_278":6079,"_150":2658},"cf66f0cc8fa0",[],{"_30":6081,"_16":277,"_278":6082,"_150":6084},"9a44e48fc73a",[6083],"c28643a","solving.",[6086,6088,6090,6092],{"_30":6056,"_16":2666,"_2667":6087},"00:22:58.220",{"_30":6067,"_16":2666,"_2667":6089},"00:23:02.980",{"_30":6075,"_16":2666,"_2667":6091},"00:23:07.510",{"_30":6083,"_16":2666,"_2667":6093},"00:23:14.070",{"_30":6095,"_16":272,"_273":6096,"_281":6118,"_283":284},"4a8af4cadbb2",[6097,6102,6105,6110,6113],{"_30":6098,"_16":277,"_278":6099,"_150":6101},"c2db38d37344",[6100],"c756838","And the most annoying question I would get asked, and I should have realized earlier on that",{"_30":6103,"_16":277,"_278":6104,"_150":2658},"cdcaab19e9ae",[],{"_30":6106,"_16":277,"_278":6107,"_150":6109},"8bae3e214c72",[6108],"00210cc","it was a signal that I should be learning something rather than being annoyed by something, was",{"_30":6111,"_16":277,"_278":6112,"_150":2658},"d352f9b3fea1",[],{"_30":6114,"_16":277,"_278":6115,"_150":6117},"9024725b7108",[6116],"458ec3b","people would be like, \"yeah, but what solution is this for a customer.\"",[6119,6120,6122],{"_30":6100,"_16":2666,"_2667":6093},{"_30":6108,"_16":2666,"_2667":6121},"00:23:20.190",{"_30":6116,"_16":2666,"_2667":6123},"00:23:25.270",{"_30":6125,"_16":272,"_273":6126,"_281":6148,"_283":284},"58ef7bc52467",[6127,6132,6135,6140,6143],{"_30":6128,"_16":277,"_278":6129,"_150":6131},"0b51fabd8f72",[6130],"1c20b23","I'm like what do you mean,",{"_30":6133,"_16":277,"_278":6134,"_150":2658},"91b3181366a6",[],{"_30":6136,"_16":277,"_278":6137,"_150":6139},"090d603b5710",[6138],"17ebb5f","\"what is the solution? The problem is infrastructure automation and the solution is an automation",{"_30":6141,"_16":277,"_278":6142,"_150":2658},"3542a6ff2b54",[],{"_30":6144,"_16":277,"_278":6145,"_150":6147},"dd4a3a8ce775",[6146],"9019b65","tool for infrastructure. Like it's so obvious like what you're trying to do.\"",[6149,6150,6152],{"_30":6130,"_16":2666,"_2667":6123},{"_30":6138,"_16":2666,"_2667":6151},"00:23:33.110",{"_30":6146,"_16":2666,"_2667":6153},"00:23:40.970",{"_30":6155,"_16":272,"_273":6156,"_281":6186,"_283":284},"5987c33e6f96",[6157,6162,6165,6170,6173,6178,6181],{"_30":6158,"_16":277,"_278":6159,"_150":6161},"dd84a011b271",[6160],"75944ab","But realizing that",{"_30":6163,"_16":277,"_278":6164,"_150":2658},"1ea16360567a",[],{"_30":6166,"_16":277,"_278":6167,"_150":6169},"b060ea62c9e1",[6168],"334179c","I guess the way technical people look at problem solutions is different from a way a non-technical",{"_30":6171,"_16":277,"_278":6172,"_150":2658},"a304e74b5ffc",[],{"_30":6174,"_16":277,"_278":6175,"_150":6177},"cca981ddfc33",[6176],"fe2adf4","or not as deeply technical buyer looks at problems and solutions. They're looking at it from an",{"_30":6179,"_16":277,"_278":6180,"_150":2658},"a2a6026a34c6",[],{"_30":6182,"_16":277,"_278":6183,"_150":6185},"d70ef3453185",[6184],"5d941f7","organizational perspective or from an industry trend perspective.",[6187,6188,6190,6192],{"_30":6160,"_16":2666,"_2667":6153},{"_30":6168,"_16":2666,"_2667":6189},"00:23:47.650",{"_30":6176,"_16":2666,"_2667":6191},"00:23:55.650",{"_30":6184,"_16":2666,"_2667":6193},"00:24:01.490",{"_30":6195,"_16":272,"_273":6196,"_281":6226,"_283":284},"909f463c1b0f",[6197,6202,6205,6210,6213,6218,6221],{"_30":6198,"_16":277,"_278":6199,"_150":6201},"01b47c66bf51",[6200],"12e969a","I think Quinn put up a really good",{"_30":6203,"_16":277,"_278":6204,"_150":2658},"d85dd0b359e8",[],{"_30":6206,"_16":277,"_278":6207,"_150":6209},"bfea5b70e39b",[6208],"b0f71bf","quote which is like, they have a mandate to ship AI. What does that mean? Like what does that mean?",{"_30":6211,"_16":277,"_278":6212,"_150":2658},"7c0a144ef07c",[],{"_30":6214,"_16":277,"_278":6215,"_150":6217},"46d346a40bc5",[6216],"151770b","But it doesn't matter. They have that mandate. You as an AI company need to be in",{"_30":6219,"_16":277,"_278":6220,"_150":2658},"0225d507d2a3",[],{"_30":6222,"_16":277,"_278":6223,"_150":6225},"1baec1fe7d84",[6224],"edcecb4","the conversation to be a solution for that mandate.",[6227,6228,6230,6232],{"_30":6200,"_16":2666,"_2667":6193},{"_30":6208,"_16":2666,"_2667":6229},"00:24:06.570",{"_30":6216,"_16":2666,"_2667":6231},"00:24:13.040",{"_30":6224,"_16":2666,"_2667":6233},"00:24:19.640",{"_30":6235,"_16":272,"_273":6236,"_281":6274,"_283":284},"835aee452dd6",[6237,6242,6245,6250,6253,6258,6261,6266,6269],{"_30":6238,"_16":277,"_278":6239,"_150":6241},"7d33a916dded",[6240],"74d8343","And so you need to have the right white papers",{"_30":6243,"_16":277,"_278":6244,"_150":2658},"ab4b9596ba04",[],{"_30":6246,"_16":277,"_278":6247,"_150":6249},"3b066352265f",[6248],"f43ee3c","and the right marketing copy and be speaking the right language to",{"_30":6251,"_16":277,"_278":6252,"_150":2658},"6996a2e97597",[],{"_30":6254,"_16":277,"_278":6255,"_150":6257},"811dd9417bc3",[6256],"078d7bb","those people. And it took me a little bit too long to figure that out. I always thought it",{"_30":6259,"_16":277,"_278":6260,"_150":2658},"2390d07271b8",[],{"_30":6262,"_16":277,"_278":6263,"_150":6265},"4bca32f7bb54",[6264],"c0ab624","was a bug, that when I went to VMware's website I had no fucking clue what they were talking about",{"_30":6267,"_16":277,"_278":6268,"_150":2658},"80a480d37049",[],{"_30":6270,"_16":277,"_278":6271,"_150":6273},"4db1b7f2fd7a",[6272],"a735bc0","the whole thing.",[6275,6276,6278,6280,6282],{"_30":6240,"_16":2666,"_2667":6233},{"_30":6248,"_16":2666,"_2667":6277},"00:24:23.599",{"_30":6256,"_16":2666,"_2667":6279},"00:24:27.560",{"_30":6264,"_16":2666,"_2667":6281},"00:24:32.520",{"_30":6272,"_16":2666,"_2667":6283},"00:24:38.610",{"_30":6285,"_16":272,"_273":6286,"_281":6308,"_283":284},"82aaa8218185",[6287,6292,6295,6300,6303],{"_30":6288,"_16":277,"_278":6289,"_150":6291},"88434f3895c5",[6290],"29cf29e","And then I realized it's a feature because a lot of people do understand that",{"_30":6293,"_16":277,"_278":6294,"_150":2658},"f8b733d8f8d2",[],{"_30":6296,"_16":277,"_278":6297,"_150":6299},"c84419762f5e",[6298],"f424ad0","and they spend a lot of money. And so suddenly our website, I would visit our own website and be",{"_30":6301,"_16":277,"_278":6302,"_150":2658},"63acebf86d9f",[],{"_30":6304,"_16":277,"_278":6305,"_150":6307},"10dd951ca91e",[6306],"d8300a7","like, \"I have no idea what's going on, what are we selling?\" But it was working.",[6309,6310,6312],{"_30":6290,"_16":2666,"_2667":6283},{"_30":6298,"_16":2666,"_2667":6311},"00:24:43.170",{"_30":6306,"_16":2666,"_2667":6313},"00:24:49.730",{"_30":6315,"_16":272,"_273":6316,"_281":6338,"_283":284},"5e94e5ce0d34",[6317,6322,6325,6330,6333],{"_30":6318,"_16":277,"_278":6319,"_150":6321},"1db9dfad3c5d",[6320],"4e214aa","And so the point is,",{"_30":6323,"_16":277,"_278":6324,"_150":2658},"bbc69c0798eb",[],{"_30":6326,"_16":277,"_278":6327,"_150":6329},"f03963683cd1",[6328],"4124b0a","I think again this is part of that technical founder transition is learning to speak the right",{"_30":6331,"_16":277,"_278":6332,"_150":2658},"8f8081b264d9",[],{"_30":6334,"_16":277,"_278":6335,"_150":6337},"757f8c9867f6",[6336],"d66bfb5","language for the different people that you're interacting with.",[6339,6340,6342],{"_30":6320,"_16":2666,"_2667":6313},{"_30":6328,"_16":2666,"_2667":6341},"00:24:57.770",{"_30":6336,"_16":2666,"_2667":6343},"00:25:02.850",{"_30":6345,"_16":272,"_273":6346,"_281":6368,"_283":704},"b3f69a602058",[6347,6352,6355,6360,6363],{"_30":6348,"_16":277,"_278":6349,"_150":6351},"de170823bf4f",[6350],"7b2b855","The way they're",{"_30":6353,"_16":277,"_278":6354,"_150":2658},"6983a5504e4c",[],{"_30":6356,"_16":277,"_278":6357,"_150":6359},"c0f3d769f088",[6358],"1249985","thinking about the problem isn't wrong, it's just different. It's a different scope and it's",{"_30":6361,"_16":277,"_278":6362,"_150":2658},"33d96a99912f",[],{"_30":6364,"_16":277,"_278":6365,"_150":6367},"d47d485abbb1",[6366],"a55b84d","a different challenge that they're trying to solve. I think that is super important.",[6369,6370,6372],{"_30":6350,"_16":2666,"_2667":6343},{"_30":6358,"_16":2666,"_2667":6371},"00:25:09.970",{"_30":6366,"_16":2666,"_2667":6373},"00:25:14.050",{"_30":6375,"_16":272,"_273":6376,"_281":6401,"_283":284},"46da25ba5390",[6377,6381,6385,6388,6393,6396],{"_30":6378,"_16":277,"_278":6379,"_150":3047},"7be9b19d7bd4",[6380,389],"096af01",{"_30":6382,"_16":277,"_278":6383,"_150":6384},"c7916707fcc0",[6380]," And we had to learn, right? We were very close to our open source users, they were all",{"_30":6386,"_16":277,"_278":6387,"_150":2658},"f9618a4da55c",[],{"_30":6389,"_16":277,"_278":6390,"_150":6392},"4de1b09420e9",[6391],"1046e4f","developers. And then the language that we use to market our open source projects",{"_30":6394,"_16":277,"_278":6395,"_150":2658},"53f67e14d96b",[],{"_30":6397,"_16":277,"_278":6398,"_150":6400},"1100f4393b4c",[6399],"c745620","were so different from the language we had to use for enterprise.",[6402,6404,6406],{"_30":6380,"_16":2666,"_2667":6403},"00:25:18.370",{"_30":6391,"_16":2666,"_2667":6405},"00:25:23.970",{"_30":6399,"_16":2666,"_2667":6407},"00:25:28.710",{"_30":6409,"_16":272,"_273":6410,"_281":6432,"_283":284},"00f96ff0baa3",[6411,6416,6419,6424,6427],{"_30":6412,"_16":277,"_278":6413,"_150":6415},"522dbf640a6f",[6414],"e2f1e20","And we had to learn what",{"_30":6417,"_16":277,"_278":6418,"_150":2658},"a9bea723834f",[],{"_30":6420,"_16":277,"_278":6421,"_150":6423},"bb8a6d62d52b",[6422],"f8c8c89","the enterprises were needing, what did we need to solve for them, and then how do we use the",{"_30":6425,"_16":277,"_278":6426,"_150":2658},"9b935438f340",[],{"_30":6428,"_16":277,"_278":6429,"_150":6431},"004e781f86a6",[6430],"0589ddf","language that they will understand?",[6433,6434,6436],{"_30":6414,"_16":2666,"_2667":6407},{"_30":6422,"_16":2666,"_2667":6435},"00:25:33.350",{"_30":6430,"_16":2666,"_2667":6437},"00:25:38.510",{"_30":6439,"_16":272,"_273":6440,"_281":6473,"_283":284},"9daf7ba2b774",[6441,6445,6449,6452,6457,6460,6465,6468],{"_30":6442,"_16":277,"_278":6443,"_150":3104},"c42609a4bc52",[6444,389],"421f280",{"_30":6446,"_16":277,"_278":6447,"_150":6448},"74007371dd6d",[6444]," A big part of it was making enterprises aware that this was a problem that needed to be solved. O",{"_30":6450,"_16":277,"_278":6451,"_150":2658},"0820476058d0",[],{"_30":6453,"_16":277,"_278":6454,"_150":6456},"7bc5bf8f221d",[6455],"359e6d6","ne thing that really stuck out in my mind was Terraform. When we first started",{"_30":6458,"_16":277,"_278":6459,"_150":2658},"45bab7944286",[],{"_30":6461,"_16":277,"_278":6462,"_150":6464},"2c960fe17800",[6463],"b75abd9","talking to analysts, put us in some category, it might have been configuration management.",{"_30":6466,"_16":277,"_278":6467,"_150":2658},"c2ab62fc90d8",[],{"_30":6469,"_16":277,"_278":6470,"_150":6472},"91f0514317a1",[6471],"c9c6298","But I was like, \"this isn't the right category.\"",[6474,6476,6478,6480],{"_30":6444,"_16":2666,"_2667":6475},"00:25:40.070",{"_30":6455,"_16":2666,"_2667":6477},"00:25:44.629",{"_30":6463,"_16":2666,"_2667":6479},"00:25:50.030",{"_30":6471,"_16":2666,"_2667":6481},"00:25:56.620",{"_30":6483,"_16":272,"_273":6484,"_281":6506,"_283":284},"da78db03eaf2",[6485,6490,6493,6498,6501],{"_30":6486,"_16":277,"_278":6487,"_150":6489},"484e01ca9391",[6488],"54e9ff5","But there was no cloud automation category or any",{"_30":6491,"_16":277,"_278":6492,"_150":2658},"571c614e8c60",[],{"_30":6494,"_16":277,"_278":6495,"_150":6497},"a6a374d88826",[6496],"2d1d6c7","thing that fit better. So they just put us into that. And the problem was in 2015, that",{"_30":6499,"_16":277,"_278":6500,"_150":2658},"35cb17c77aa6",[],{"_30":6502,"_16":277,"_278":6503,"_150":6505},"d6652864b305",[6504],"2312bcd","configuration management as a category was not a priority for executives.",[6507,6508,6510],{"_30":6488,"_16":2666,"_2667":6481},{"_30":6496,"_16":2666,"_2667":6509},"00:26:01.740",{"_30":6504,"_16":2666,"_2667":6511},"00:26:08.140",{"_30":6513,"_16":272,"_273":6514,"_281":6552,"_283":284},"d0e85d94c424",[6515,6520,6523,6528,6531,6536,6539,6544,6547],{"_30":6516,"_16":277,"_278":6517,"_150":6519},"df150741385e",[6518],"391dc6b","And so, Fortune",{"_30":6521,"_16":277,"_278":6522,"_150":2658},"d3a426394d72",[],{"_30":6524,"_16":277,"_278":6525,"_150":6527},"cccdc57f194c",[6526],"5159ade","500 executives, these buyers, these decision makers would go to conferences, would talk socially",{"_30":6529,"_16":277,"_278":6530,"_150":2658},"5601b22ff067",[],{"_30":6532,"_16":277,"_278":6533,"_150":6535},"03f6e36bab04",[6534],"3eb26b9","amongst each other and all these things. And when we came in, they had never heard of us, their",{"_30":6537,"_16":277,"_278":6538,"_150":2658},"c09152c521be",[],{"_30":6540,"_16":277,"_278":6541,"_150":6543},"f4435e00ee59",[6542],"a9b5e7b","developers had heard of us. But when they started looking into it, pulling reports, be like, \"oh,",{"_30":6545,"_16":277,"_278":6546,"_150":2658},"9760c4cbaa64",[],{"_30":6548,"_16":277,"_278":6549,"_150":6551},"fd16fca8fa70",[6550],"14e7f6d","it's in this category, not a priority right now.\"",[6553,6554,6556,6558,6560],{"_30":6518,"_16":2666,"_2667":6511},{"_30":6526,"_16":2666,"_2667":6555},"00:26:14.820",{"_30":6534,"_16":2666,"_2667":6557},"00:26:20.580",{"_30":6542,"_16":2666,"_2667":6559},"00:26:25.480",{"_30":6550,"_16":2666,"_2667":6561},"00:26:29.560",{"_30":6563,"_16":272,"_273":6564,"_281":6610,"_283":284},"127c8f4360c6",[6565,6570,6573,6578,6581,6586,6589,6594,6597,6602,6605],{"_30":6566,"_16":277,"_278":6567,"_150":6569},"00ef1254be21",[6568],"f9662dd","And that was really hurting our sales",{"_30":6571,"_16":277,"_278":6572,"_150":2658},"6c9370257c93",[],{"_30":6574,"_16":277,"_278":6575,"_150":6577},"97bf88e6a324",[6576],"4c43f6d","process. And then eventually through a lot of our pushing, but through the market as well,",{"_30":6579,"_16":277,"_278":6580,"_150":2658},"09fcb8aa7775",[],{"_30":6582,"_16":277,"_278":6583,"_150":6585},"6725cde8da70",[6584],"7ff4f2b","Gartner introduced the cloud automation category and instantly put us at the top of that category.",{"_30":6587,"_16":277,"_278":6588,"_150":2658},"306e7c15dcd1",[],{"_30":6590,"_16":277,"_278":6591,"_150":6593},"170da4b0598a",[6592],"eeeeaf3","And cloud automation became",{"_30":6595,"_16":277,"_278":6596,"_150":2658},"d244cd5fb073",[],{"_30":6598,"_16":277,"_278":6599,"_150":6601},"6b13008d9fe7",[6600],"f91ef12","relevant. And that became suddenly an executive problem that needed to be solved",{"_30":6603,"_16":277,"_278":6604,"_150":2658},"5085894ba14b",[],{"_30":6606,"_16":277,"_278":6607,"_150":6609},"95f7bfb01737",[6608],"33e0247","within a defined timeline.",[6611,6612,6614,6616,6618,6620],{"_30":6568,"_16":2666,"_2667":6561},{"_30":6576,"_16":2666,"_2667":6613},"00:26:35.200",{"_30":6584,"_16":2666,"_2667":6615},"00:26:41.390",{"_30":6592,"_16":2666,"_2667":6617},"00:26:48.500",{"_30":6600,"_16":2666,"_2667":6619},"00:26:52.100",{"_30":6608,"_16":2666,"_2667":6621},"00:27:00.540",{"_30":6623,"_16":272,"_273":6624,"_281":6654,"_283":284},"845ee7c0bdc0",[6625,6630,6633,6638,6641,6646,6649],{"_30":6626,"_16":277,"_278":6627,"_150":6629},"4e549c561bd2",[6628],"689cc45","And overnight sales process became a lot simpler. And the learning",{"_30":6631,"_16":277,"_278":6632,"_150":2658},"fb1355bf07ae",[],{"_30":6634,"_16":277,"_278":6635,"_150":6637},"348413a0864a",[6636],"3fada27","there was really how, in some cases, not grounded in reality the buying cycle is, or what people",{"_30":6639,"_16":277,"_278":6640,"_150":2658},"b8b962e0ed3b",[],{"_30":6642,"_16":277,"_278":6643,"_150":6645},"455989562dc8",[6644],"e66c75c","are buying. It's grounded in what is safe and what analysts are saying and what's not going to",{"_30":6647,"_16":277,"_278":6648,"_150":2658},"2d41a06135dd",[],{"_30":6650,"_16":277,"_278":6651,"_150":6653},"2663c99fe016",[6652],"a186aec","get you fired. And yeah, it's trends. It's trends for sure, and being part of that trend.",[6655,6656,6658,6660],{"_30":6628,"_16":2666,"_2667":6621},{"_30":6636,"_16":2666,"_2667":6657},"00:27:07.500",{"_30":6644,"_16":2666,"_2667":6659},"00:27:17.250",{"_30":6652,"_16":2666,"_2667":6661},"00:27:22.520",{"_30":6663,"_16":272,"_273":6664,"_281":6694,"_283":284},"1894600e823a",[6665,6670,6673,6678,6681,6686,6689],{"_30":6666,"_16":277,"_278":6667,"_150":6669},"495c2a04e245",[6668],"24e1b01","But",{"_30":6671,"_16":277,"_278":6672,"_150":2658},"560d9be6d4f5",[],{"_30":6674,"_16":277,"_278":6675,"_150":6677},"8c6db8e1cf8e",[6676],"3f07372","you need to be part of the conversation. And so we started spending a lot more",{"_30":6679,"_16":277,"_278":6680,"_150":2658},"718a416039f7",[],{"_30":6682,"_16":277,"_278":6683,"_150":6685},"f7de33c48831",[6684],"322060a","money, a lot more time, I hated every minute of this, but a lot more time on phone calls with",{"_30":6687,"_16":277,"_278":6688,"_150":2658},"d60378e93eeb",[],{"_30":6690,"_16":277,"_278":6691,"_150":6693},"d69bbbab5654",[6692],"11ff967","analysts, you know, doing a lot of analyst relations stuff, going to all their conferences. Yes.",[6695,6696,6698,6700],{"_30":6668,"_16":2666,"_2667":6661},{"_30":6676,"_16":2666,"_2667":6697},"00:27:26.920",{"_30":6684,"_16":2666,"_2667":6699},"00:27:32.480",{"_30":6692,"_16":2666,"_2667":6701},"00:27:38.480",{"_30":6703,"_16":272,"_273":6704,"_281":6726,"_283":704},"d1f8f67986ce",[6705,6710,6713,6718,6721],{"_30":6706,"_16":277,"_278":6707,"_150":6709},"7176acf7f200",[6708],"bcdc167","You just needed to be relevant, just to show up on the radar, so that when you were clearly, in",{"_30":6711,"_16":277,"_278":6712,"_150":2658},"49eefd5160c6",[],{"_30":6714,"_16":277,"_278":6715,"_150":6717},"fff688db00ef",[6716],"8736867","our opinion, the right technical product to buy, the buyer felt safe making that decision and buying",{"_30":6719,"_16":277,"_278":6720,"_150":2658},"7e571a4ba077",[],{"_30":6722,"_16":277,"_278":6723,"_150":6725},"b75791fcfa8d",[6724],"2cc78cb","it.",[6727,6729,6731],{"_30":6708,"_16":2666,"_2667":6728},"00:27:43.810",{"_30":6716,"_16":2666,"_2667":6730},"00:27:49.450",{"_30":6724,"_16":2666,"_2667":6732},"00:27:55.010",{"_30":6734,"_16":272,"_273":6735,"_281":6744,"_283":284},"a2fe77d052fa",[6736,6740],{"_30":6737,"_16":277,"_278":6738,"_150":3047},"932627a79f59",[6739,389],"7b7ba1a",{"_30":6741,"_16":277,"_278":6742,"_150":6743},"0153c0b3483b",[6739]," What about the discovery of the importance of steak dinners and going golfing?",[6745],{"_30":6739,"_16":2666,"_2667":6746},"00:27:55.250",{"_30":6748,"_16":272,"_273":6749,"_281":6774,"_283":284},"4b7b95420cf9",[6750,6754,6758,6761,6766,6769],{"_30":6751,"_16":277,"_278":6752,"_150":3104},"bba5080fb6f9",[6753,389],"428a86d",{"_30":6755,"_16":277,"_278":6756,"_150":6757},"604da187689e",[6753]," I think I tweeted this. I don't know. It's so irrationally",{"_30":6759,"_16":277,"_278":6760,"_150":2658},"0c419e30bce3",[],{"_30":6762,"_16":277,"_278":6763,"_150":6765},"a4652fba0454",[6764],"53d7ed5","effective to have dinner with somebody. And as a distributed remote company and",{"_30":6767,"_16":277,"_278":6768,"_150":2658},"047b415cb6e4",[],{"_30":6770,"_16":277,"_278":6771,"_150":6773},"61278941a841",[6772],"eedf8bd","as an engineer who didn't want to leave my house, it was so annoying.",[6775,6777,6779],{"_30":6753,"_16":2666,"_2667":6776},"00:27:59.850",{"_30":6764,"_16":2666,"_2667":6778},"00:28:05.970",{"_30":6772,"_16":2666,"_2667":6780},"00:28:11.860",{"_30":6782,"_16":272,"_273":6783,"_281":6829,"_283":284},"ea8d1ac57354",[6784,6789,6792,6797,6800,6805,6808,6813,6816,6821,6824],{"_30":6785,"_16":277,"_278":6786,"_150":6788},"5545c5624bef",[6787],"06a450d","But I",{"_30":6790,"_16":277,"_278":6791,"_150":2658},"c75c38301639",[],{"_30":6793,"_16":277,"_278":6794,"_150":6796},"6b9643fb1b5b",[6795],"bfd9b8e","realized with enterprise sales in particular, and maybe this is all wrong and this is changing from",{"_30":6798,"_16":277,"_278":6799,"_150":2658},"f11e6afa2053",[],{"_30":6801,"_16":277,"_278":6802,"_150":6804},"911f48efded6",[6803],"9b0fe55","what Quinn said, but I realized how I used to make fun of these people that would fly on an",{"_30":6806,"_16":277,"_278":6807,"_150":2658},"285290d860b7",[],{"_30":6809,"_16":277,"_278":6810,"_150":6812},"edb38ce70026",[6811],"2816e1e","airplane, just have one meeting and go back home. And then, next thing you know",{"_30":6814,"_16":277,"_278":6815,"_150":2658},"a90d2bb13b97",[],{"_30":6817,"_16":277,"_278":6818,"_150":6820},"ea09bddf557e",[6819],"c9572e2","I'm on a flight to Germany for two hours and literally the same calendar day I'm on a flight back",{"_30":6822,"_16":277,"_278":6823,"_150":2658},"1ae7e8c6f26a",[],{"_30":6825,"_16":277,"_278":6826,"_150":6828},"5681d7fdc2e9",[6827],"9324edd","home.",[6830,6831,6833,6835,6837,6839],{"_30":6787,"_16":2666,"_2667":6780},{"_30":6795,"_16":2666,"_2667":6832},"00:28:18.580",{"_30":6803,"_16":2666,"_2667":6834},"00:28:24.340",{"_30":6811,"_16":2666,"_2667":6836},"00:28:29.140",{"_30":6819,"_16":2666,"_2667":6838},"00:28:34.650",{"_30":6827,"_16":2666,"_2667":6840},"00:28:40.690",{"_30":6842,"_16":272,"_273":6843,"_281":6865,"_283":284},"9dcccd20c5a9",[6844,6849,6852,6857,6860],{"_30":6845,"_16":277,"_278":6846,"_150":6848},"9c11ba923aeb",[6847],"cb79db6","And it's like, what's the waste? You spend that money in carbon footprint but then you get",{"_30":6850,"_16":277,"_278":6851,"_150":2658},"026cc38c348b",[],{"_30":6853,"_16":277,"_278":6854,"_150":6856},"02a2a98c07c6",[6855],"a9a35bd","a seven figure deal done. And it required the dinner to push that over with a founder or a",{"_30":6858,"_16":277,"_278":6859,"_150":2658},"ad69bbbb3d94",[],{"_30":6861,"_16":277,"_278":6862,"_150":6864},"147857ab3b02",[6863],"5d70c25","high-level person.",[6866,6867,6869],{"_30":6847,"_16":2666,"_2667":6840},{"_30":6855,"_16":2666,"_2667":6868},"00:28:46.250",{"_30":6863,"_16":2666,"_2667":6870},"00:28:52.050",{"_30":6872,"_16":272,"_273":6873,"_281":6903,"_283":704},"9689225caea2",[6874,6879,6882,6887,6890,6895,6898],{"_30":6875,"_16":277,"_278":6876,"_150":6878},"5adc277ab813",[6877],"638079f","And the enterprise sales process I feel like is still",{"_30":6880,"_16":277,"_278":6881,"_150":2658},"af3a42258882",[],{"_30":6883,"_16":277,"_278":6884,"_150":6886},"a2925d5c1c47",[6885],"2d80113","very human-oriented. I don't think you're going to click-and-sell these large, large, large",{"_30":6888,"_16":277,"_278":6889,"_150":2658},"b764977e487a",[],{"_30":6891,"_16":277,"_278":6892,"_150":6894},"be8629750b93",[6893],"154a2a3","deals anytime soon. And so you really need to build that relationship, build that trust, build that",{"_30":6896,"_16":277,"_278":6897,"_150":2658},"672791a01c3b",[],{"_30":6899,"_16":277,"_278":6900,"_150":6902},"04b6635a8407",[6901],"dafa554","partnership.",[6904,6905,6907,6909],{"_30":6877,"_16":2666,"_2667":6870},{"_30":6885,"_16":2666,"_2667":6906},"00:28:58.410",{"_30":6893,"_16":2666,"_2667":6908},"00:29:04.390",{"_30":6901,"_16":2666,"_2667":6910},"00:29:09.670",{"_30":6912,"_16":272,"_273":6913,"_281":6959,"_283":284},"57c57dcdb91f",[6914,6919,6922,6927,6930,6935,6938,6943,6946,6951,6954],{"_30":6915,"_16":277,"_278":6916,"_150":6918},"e669e0bc8362",[6917],"8941bc5","I think that's something we pushed a lot, was like we weren't trying to just be a",{"_30":6920,"_16":277,"_278":6921,"_150":2658},"b26b5a289164",[],{"_30":6923,"_16":277,"_278":6924,"_150":6926},"f858270acc31",[6925],"80af0ec","vendor, we were trying to be a partner. We wanted to be the company that any sort of cloud",{"_30":6928,"_16":277,"_278":6929,"_150":2658},"16e222a3ace4",[],{"_30":6931,"_16":277,"_278":6932,"_150":6934},"3a522c1981dd",[6933],"bcc0422","problem they had, they could ask us and we could be like \"yeah, we don't do that. 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I think the most important thing is the fearless",{"_30":7039,"_16":277,"_278":7040,"_150":2658},"bce8d645382c",[],{"_30":7042,"_16":277,"_278":7043,"_150":7045},"3c05440baa6c",[7044],"4fcc04a","thing I talked about. I think that's my number one regret about everything. Just stay fearless.",{"_30":7047,"_16":277,"_278":7048,"_150":2658},"aa5fec7b5f68",[],{"_30":7050,"_16":277,"_278":7051,"_150":7053},"04b720a084f9",[7052],"e4b2f9f","You're here because you're funded, presumably, already. And you have this idea, people believe",{"_30":7055,"_16":277,"_278":7056,"_150":2658},"87809a45f527",[],{"_30":7058,"_16":277,"_278":7059,"_150":7061},"d78382c082a9",[7060],"531cbe8","in you, you believe in yourself. Just stick to that.",[7063,7065,7067,7069],{"_30":7033,"_16":2666,"_2667":7064},"00:29:53.010",{"_30":7044,"_16":2666,"_2667":7066},"00:30:01.170",{"_30":7052,"_16":2666,"_2667":7068},"00:30:05.970",{"_30":7060,"_16":2666,"_2667":7070},"00:30:13.890",{"_30":7072,"_16":272,"_273":7073,"_281":7095,"_283":284},"155e722a11b9",[7074,7079,7082,7087,7090],{"_30":7075,"_16":277,"_278":7076,"_150":7078},"b0ecec5a436a",[7077],"aadf815","Adapt to the changing world and",{"_30":7080,"_16":277,"_278":7081,"_150":2658},"df2cc83bcd7f",[],{"_30":7083,"_16":277,"_278":7084,"_150":7086},"aaff2306b3d4",[7085],"cc9ff24","everything changing very quickly, but be fearless in that adaptation and just dive for it. I",{"_30":7088,"_16":277,"_278":7089,"_150":2658},"11e8a10adf40",[],{"_30":7091,"_16":277,"_278":7092,"_150":7094},"297e13098104",[7093],"d96cea8","think that's really important because that's what separates startups from non-startups.",[7096,7097,7099],{"_30":7077,"_16":2666,"_2667":7070},{"_30":7085,"_16":2666,"_2667":7098},"00:30:19.570",{"_30":7093,"_16":2666,"_2667":7100},"00:30:26.480",{"_30":7102,"_16":272,"_273":7103,"_281":7125,"_283":284},"0b48f061a823",[7104,7109,7112,7117,7120],{"_30":7105,"_16":277,"_278":7106,"_150":7108},"2280d5a55dd8",[7107],"4df501c","HashiCorp and other later-stage companies start falling into that bucket where they start turning",{"_30":7110,"_16":277,"_278":7111,"_150":2658},"6592bf5f399f",[],{"_30":7113,"_16":277,"_278":7114,"_150":7116},"e1f224e2a68b",[7115],"21ec964","into big companies. And I used to think that big companies couldn't move fast because they were",{"_30":7118,"_16":277,"_278":7119,"_150":2658},"f16004de9ff8",[],{"_30":7121,"_16":277,"_278":7122,"_150":7124},"93f7007ddd5d",[7123],"2441ca3","incompetent. And I learned that that's not true.",[7126,7128,7130],{"_30":7107,"_16":2666,"_2667":7127},"00:30:31.880",{"_30":7115,"_16":2666,"_2667":7129},"00:30:36.440",{"_30":7123,"_16":2666,"_2667":7131},"00:30:40.560",{"_30":7133,"_16":272,"_273":7134,"_281":7164,"_283":284},"cca39d91a515",[7135,7140,7143,7148,7151,7156,7159],{"_30":7136,"_16":277,"_278":7137,"_150":7139},"ac39cdeda0b9",[7138],"26af832","There's a ton of competent people. Every company",{"_30":7141,"_16":277,"_278":7142,"_150":2658},"6424f3432fcc",[],{"_30":7144,"_16":277,"_278":7145,"_150":7147},"205adac795b7",[7146],"7094a46","I ever went to was filled with them, really. The problem is that the system bogs you",{"_30":7149,"_16":277,"_278":7150,"_150":2658},"14cbac30077a",[],{"_30":7152,"_16":277,"_278":7153,"_150":7155},"18363c25229a",[7154],"7e7ca97","down. The fear, the risk, that all bogs you down. 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From Engineer to Enterprise Leader

Speakers