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Developer ",{"_20":395,"_90":273,"_274":396,"_141":398},"7aa3b54f64f6",[397],"a50030cc5b04","Vitali Avagyan",{"_20":400,"_90":273,"_274":401,"_141":402},"a0f94686e2c4",[]," asserts that the key to understanding code, particularly code across different languages, is to stop thinking of it as lines of plain text, and to treat it as a relational graph, which is the basis of his open-source project ",{"_20":404,"_90":273,"_274":405,"_141":407},"c66f9ef7a776",[406],"b6ce27c00ce8","code-graph-rag",{"_20":409,"_90":273,"_274":410,"_141":411},"c24ce7265e1d",[],".",[413,415],{"_20":397,"_90":30,"_383":414},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/vitali-avagyan-a1566234/",{"_20":406,"_90":30,"_383":416},"https://github.com/vitali87/code-graph-rag",{"_20":418,"_90":127,"_92":419},"c9d37b6922a5",{"_94":420,"_90":96},"image-bc24d7b1e62740bb7448a1a80a9dfd59940c68d6-3840x1100-jpg",{"_20":422,"_90":268,"_269":423,"_277":434,"_279":280},"b80310699127",[424,429],{"_20":425,"_90":273,"_274":426,"_141":428},"a0931bc06a15",[427],"em","Vitali Avagyan discusses using GraphRAG to parse repos with Memgraph. Image courtesy ",{"_20":430,"_90":273,"_274":431,"_141":433},"5ef047d4ccf9",[432,427],"5b72c578e5d1","Memgraph",[435],{"_20":432,"_90":30,"_383":436},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jUTq6nCEY",{"_20":438,"_90":268,"_269":439,"_277":444,"_279":355},"2fc0e81b9ef7",[440],{"_20":441,"_90":273,"_274":442,"_141":443},"4cb4e6406d24",[],"Viewing Code as a Retrievable Graph",[],{"_20":446,"_90":268,"_269":447,"_277":461,"_279":280},"c357da4c0347",[448,452,457],{"_20":449,"_90":273,"_274":450,"_141":451},"b42b4a2c8abb",[],"Avagyan notes that when you hand a codebase to one of today’s coding assistants, it’ll often treat it as a text artifact. “Then, it traverses the code base with a ",{"_20":453,"_90":273,"_274":454,"_141":456},"683e39e682aa",[455],"67f4fbd2fe9a","grep",{"_20":458,"_90":273,"_274":459,"_141":460},"7de49dd818b7",[]," or possibly some kind of agentic search. As you might imagine, that can become inefficient, especially considering some of the questions you might typically have about a codebase.”",[462],{"_20":455,"_90":30,"_383":463},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grep",{"_20":465,"_90":268,"_269":466,"_277":480,"_279":280},"6bfeff21d7b3",[467,471,476],{"_20":468,"_90":273,"_274":469,"_141":470},"2814a2a422f6",[],"The creator gives the example of asking an agent to find the longest nested function call in your codebase. Today’s agents will search through the imports and invocations and do some counting, a task that LLMs aren’t great at. “But if you already have a graph that represents all core relationships between methods and functions, you or an AI agent can just write a ",{"_20":472,"_90":273,"_274":473,"_141":475},"fd7434afa3fb",[474],"40d5a9d1fab0","Cypher",{"_20":477,"_90":273,"_274":478,"_141":479},"850209620fae",[]," query that will calculate it for you in milliseconds.” The creator suggests that treating codebases as graphs in this way can conserve both tokens and time.",[481],{"_20":474,"_90":30,"_383":482},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypher_(query_language)",{"_20":484,"_90":268,"_269":485,"_277":490,"_279":280},"8edb1e48b5a2",[486],{"_20":487,"_90":273,"_274":488,"_141":489},"b5cb7e6813d4",[],"The creator clarifies, “that doesn't mean you should use [text] or [graphs] exclusively. They can be used in conjunction with each other. You can have grep, other types of search, and graph search together. Then, given that the AI has both contexts, it will decide which way to go.”",[],{"_20":492,"_90":268,"_269":493,"_277":498,"_279":280},"55289533b05a",[494],{"_20":495,"_90":273,"_274":496,"_141":497},"494b6d9eb54a",[],"The creator suggests that the project specifically addresses the dichotomy between graph search and traditional text search/grep. “The first part of the project is how you go from code to graph. The second is an assistant that has a context of a graph, but it also has all the tools that typical coding agents or harnesses have. I also use it alongside my other coding harnesses. For some problems, it can find solutions faster and more accurately.”",[],{"_20":500,"_90":268,"_269":501,"_277":506,"_279":355},"cc2e0c67c8ad",[502],{"_20":503,"_90":273,"_274":504,"_141":505},"a7a96359e940",[],"Accounting for Variation Across Languages, Frameworks",[],{"_20":508,"_90":268,"_269":509,"_277":532,"_279":280},"755c01bddb6f",[510,514,519,523,528],{"_20":511,"_90":273,"_274":512,"_141":513},"8cfad1aaed2e",[],"The creator clarifies that precisely mapping codebases to graphs requires a correct build for each framework and programming language. “Even with an underlying technology like ",{"_20":515,"_90":273,"_274":516,"_141":518},"c4f79c67c17a",[517],"d7c41e85c164","Tree-sitter",{"_20":520,"_90":273,"_274":521,"_141":522},"2d414b50c68b",[],", which parses the ",{"_20":524,"_90":273,"_274":525,"_141":527},"ecb02d6d29a7",[526],"249727404c78","abstract syntax tree",{"_20":529,"_90":273,"_274":530,"_141":531},"916d54525867",[]," and gives you all the syntactic relationships, it's not still enough because there’s so much variety between languages and frameworks.”",[533,535],{"_20":517,"_90":30,"_383":534},"https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/",{"_20":526,"_90":30,"_383":536},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_syntax_tree",{"_20":538,"_90":268,"_269":539,"_277":544,"_279":280},"4b92136c2a79",[540],{"_20":541,"_90":273,"_274":542,"_141":543},"916fbfa96bd2",[],"Avagyan’s approach was to unify the variety within a single graph ontology that worked across multiple languages, from which he designed the project to let users map relationships within a monorepo, even those that contain multiple languages (the project currently supports more than a dozen). With such precise relationships properly mapped, users can use Cypher or another query language (or some sort of tool to map natural language to a query language) to query any part of a codebase as a graph, and compare against semantic search.",[],{"_20":546,"_90":268,"_269":547,"_277":552,"_279":280},"a36ee5a77fd2",[548],{"_20":549,"_90":273,"_274":550,"_141":551},"b5e47a104baa",[],"“Obviously, this has lots of benefits. If you ask a question about a specific function or a service with semantic search, it looks at the vector similarity and brings you some functions, some of which may have relevant names, but may not be relevant to your actual query. But using graphs, if you can translate your intent into Cypher (with the help of AI), you can basically pinpoint which function you are looking for.” The creator clarifies that the project also supports semantic search as an add-on to support things like code comments, and that in practice, graph parsing and semantic search tend to be complementary.",[],{"_20":554,"_90":268,"_269":555,"_277":560,"_279":355},"6154d54ed4e6",[556],{"_20":557,"_90":273,"_274":558,"_141":559},"1641bec46e7a",[],"Making Code Graphs Deterministic with AST",[],{"_20":562,"_90":268,"_269":563,"_277":568,"_279":280},"0815be5d9aee",[564],{"_20":565,"_90":273,"_274":566,"_141":567},"6ea22a083826",[],"As he sought to ensure the project yielded reliable graph representations, Avagyan found that asking LLMs to one-shot graph representations didn’t quite work. “[The LLMs] hallucinated some relationship edges and nodes. So, the project uses Tree-sitter parsers for different languages, which give you the basic relationships you can extract from AST as something of a unified way of using any type of language.”",[],{"_20":570,"_90":268,"_269":571,"_277":585,"_279":280},"4ed1d30f3dc2",[572,576,581],{"_20":573,"_90":273,"_274":574,"_141":575},"9a4ee9a258b2",[],"“Obviously, there are so many considerations when you go into specifics, like finding call relationships. Each language has its own specific intricacies, like how ",{"_20":577,"_90":273,"_274":578,"_141":580},"e56a902ff095",[579],"1b1e54e0707e","polymorphism",{"_20":582,"_90":273,"_274":583,"_141":584},"9b109a84fb06",[]," works.” The creator notes that tracking all the nuances isn’t necessarily covered by existing deterministic open-source tools either. What is even more difficult is the runtime behavior of the code. That's why recent efforts have been placed to trace call relationships apparent at runtime and merge them into the same graph with statically-derived ones.”",[586],{"_20":579,"_90":30,"_383":587},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_(computer_science)",{"_20":589,"_90":268,"_269":590,"_277":604,"_279":280},"9b53b53a2ef7",[591,595,600],{"_20":592,"_90":273,"_274":593,"_141":594},"84140f1e533e",[],"“And from there, we run thousands of test cases to ensure there are no regressions every time a new functionality is added. Every new functionality or bugfix is accompanied by a handful of new tests.” The creator suggests the project continuously runs more than 7,000 unit/integration tests using ",{"_20":596,"_90":273,"_274":597,"_141":599},"a90a0f3ba6d2",[598],"cb676615c060","red/green test-driven development",{"_20":601,"_90":273,"_274":602,"_141":603},"a3e38bb4ef42",[],". Over time, the combination of hand-built code and agent-powered testing and development has proven to be effective. “At the beginning, I spent so much time on architecting [the project], setting the right relationships, that sort of thing, to ensure the foundation was ‘right.’ But when the foundation is ‘right,’ AI is great at doing the rest.”",[605],{"_20":598,"_90":30,"_383":606},"https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-patterns/red-green-tdd/",{"_20":608,"_90":268,"_269":609,"_277":614,"_279":355},"e71e561bda30",[610],{"_20":611,"_90":273,"_274":612,"_141":613},"8bfe3199c316",[],"Bottlenecks and Resource Management",[],{"_20":616,"_90":268,"_269":617,"_277":622,"_279":280},"2e27e83e6ea0",[618],{"_20":619,"_90":273,"_274":620,"_141":621},"b4e8f24bb41b",[],"The creator suggests that the project is continuing to improve on traditional challenges in graph-based projects, which have historically not always been particularly responsive. “I would say storage has never been a problem. With this project, I spent significant time optimizing the build process of going from codebase to graph. (I actually optimised the build time by more than 5x with a separate repo I built that optimizes user-defined codebase segments against specific metrics like speed within accepted memory constraints. The agent then \"autosearches\" the best code among competing candidates while running the build against the ground-truthed evaluation cases which you or your agents have collected or constructed yourself.)”",[],{"_20":624,"_90":268,"_269":625,"_277":647,"_279":280},"d8236069c0ba",[626,630,635,639,643],{"_20":627,"_90":273,"_274":628,"_141":629},"37e4c8419854",[],"“I would say that a practical use of code-graph-rag is ",{"_20":631,"_90":273,"_274":632,"_141":634},"0f95656bd1a7",[633],"ec14de8b6db9","dead code detection",{"_20":636,"_90":273,"_274":637,"_141":638},"28ed3f1a3a15",[],". If you have vibe coded your repo, or it’s otherwise in a state that you don't know exactly what's happening because there are so many abstractions or code duplications, or that code isn’t reachable. For example, there is a ",{"_20":640,"_90":273,"_274":641,"_141":642},"cba21817906a",[427],"code graph",{"_20":644,"_90":273,"_274":645,"_141":646},"2dd3e29f6f5e",[]," command that will check the reachability of all your code. If some are not reachable, they’re likely candidates [for being dead code and potentially getting deleted].”",[648],{"_20":633,"_90":30,"_383":649},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead-code_elimination",{"_20":651,"_90":268,"_269":652,"_277":665,"_279":280},"623b0301e0bf",[653,657,661],{"_20":654,"_90":273,"_274":655,"_141":656},"c9fdbc40e4d6",[],"“Otherwise, I don't think storage is a problem. The project uses ",{"_20":658,"_90":273,"_274":659,"_141":433},"34da333815d3",[660],"c1ed526f5769",{"_20":662,"_90":273,"_274":663,"_141":664},"da89921f17d9",[]," as a GraphDB and it's really fast, it runs in memory and you can deploy using Docker containers, and that would be enough to deploy locally, and the project has the building blocks for bigger deployments to the cloud. So far, it seems to scale well (people have even graphed the Linux kernel) and I haven’t seen any real degradation in speed when it comes to querying graphs.”",[666],{"_20":660,"_90":30,"_383":667},"https://memgraph.com/",{"_20":669,"_90":268,"_269":670,"_277":683,"_279":280},"824172ebddac",[671,675,679],{"_20":672,"_90":273,"_274":673,"_141":674},"7cdd05898655",[],"Avagyan notes that some users come to the project looking for performance and cost gains as well. “Some people claim that the project is as much as 65% more cost-efficient than traditional agentic coding and search, and I can’t verify those numbers myself. I ",{"_20":676,"_90":273,"_274":677,"_141":678},"36ec44554375",[427],"can",{"_20":680,"_90":273,"_274":681,"_141":682},"e051511f75df",[]," say that I’ve observed the project to be very fast, and it seems more fault-tolerant in a way.”",[],{"_20":685,"_90":268,"_269":686,"_277":691,"_279":280},"2cfb4c4a9a81",[687],{"_20":688,"_90":273,"_274":689,"_141":690},"b8c18965ccb1",[],"“Let’s say the project fails in one Cypher query? Then it can just repeat it, and with that query, you can gain lots of context up front, very fast. And that failure is less costly compared to if AI were to go and perform its own search, realize it was searching in the wrong place, then go to another place...you can imagine how things would accumulate really fast.”",[],{"_20":693,"_90":268,"_269":694,"_277":699,"_279":280},"6a4ddfd50139",[695],{"_20":696,"_90":273,"_274":697,"_141":698},"847581b898f9",[],"“To be honest, the goal of the project was never cost reduction, but I think it’s a byproduct, since you get the accuracy of a graph and the accuracy of an MCP and agent to invoke the correct tools to query the graph.",[],{"_20":701,"_90":268,"_269":702,"_277":707,"_279":355},"06fc03e6d208",[703],{"_20":704,"_90":273,"_274":705,"_141":706},"0743e3b412d6",[],"Real-World Use Cases for Graphing a Codebase",[],{"_20":709,"_90":268,"_269":710,"_277":715,"_279":280},"34664692f09c",[711],{"_20":712,"_90":273,"_274":713,"_141":714},"2b1eaf954306",[],"The creator calls out onboarding new engineers as a key use case for the project. “People tell me that using the project has significantly reduced onboarding times because it can gather information about different aspects of a monorepo codebase and give that directly to new junior engineers.”",[],{"_20":717,"_90":268,"_269":718,"_277":723,"_279":280},"a9bdfd671d83",[719],{"_20":720,"_90":273,"_274":721,"_141":722},"b0569066d73c",[],"“Since we recently added FLOWS_TO, READS_FROM and WRITES_TO relationships in a graph, it’s now easy to analyze the relationships between microservices in your codebase as well. (I’ve actually been approached by security companies about using the project for security detection use cases across large codebases, which is a natural fit as tracing how data moves through a system is exactly what those relationships capture.)”",[],{"_20":725,"_90":268,"_269":726,"_277":731,"_279":280},"e96ed7f2d62e",[727],{"_20":728,"_90":273,"_274":729,"_141":730},"e4b2c56f631d",[],"So you can see why companies are adopting the project as part of their onboarding tools. You could use it as an MCP server in Claude Code or any other harness or just use Cypher queries to search your codebase before even starting any agentic exploration. This approach is quick and gives you a really good grasp of a codebase, without getting sidetracked to other areas that may not be as important.”",[],{"_20":733,"_90":268,"_269":734,"_277":757,"_279":280},"b003dd295bbf",[735,739,744,748,753],{"_20":736,"_90":273,"_274":737,"_141":738},"2a8e4e8ba899",[],"Avagyan notes growing interest among teams managing heavyweight ERP systems with some flavor of Python, as well as ongoing requests around app development. “",{"_20":740,"_90":273,"_274":741,"_141":743},"fc85ec3d18b6",[742],"fc884ca87ef9","Dart",{"_20":745,"_90":273,"_274":746,"_141":747},"cee0616ee44a",[]," is already supported and includes ",{"_20":749,"_90":273,"_274":750,"_141":752},"ab660c7a1ffd",[751],"eb5b74dd23fd","Flutter",{"_20":754,"_90":273,"_274":755,"_141":756},"b630193673be",[]," widget structure.”",[758,760],{"_20":742,"_90":30,"_383":759},"https://dart.dev/overview",{"_20":751,"_90":30,"_383":761},"https://flutter.dev/",{"_20":763,"_90":268,"_269":764,"_277":769,"_279":355},"5a3ea8acd83b",[765],{"_20":766,"_90":273,"_274":767,"_141":768},"1cd77c6dd0f6",[],"Why Aren’t Enterprises Already Graphing Their Codebases?",[],{"_20":771,"_90":268,"_269":772,"_277":777,"_279":280},"7cbaec07cf9b",[773],{"_20":774,"_90":273,"_274":775,"_141":776},"52c6bc34d2b2",[],"The creator suggests that graphing codebases is a useful approach for any organization, but the timing might not be quite right for large-scale enterprises that are slow to embrace change. “I believe many companies, including major AI vendors like Cursor or Anthropic, have been experimenting with graph-based approaches, if not for codebase mapping, then for use cases like memory management.”",[],{"_20":779,"_90":268,"_269":780,"_277":785,"_279":280},"a89686ddcbd7",[781],{"_20":782,"_90":273,"_274":783,"_141":784},"eb00873aac4a",[],"Avagyan notes that those companies may be hitting a stumbling block. “I think one problem companies may be having is accuracy.”",[],{"_20":787,"_90":268,"_269":788,"_277":793,"_279":280},"f2f91f55c9c2",[789],{"_20":790,"_90":273,"_274":791,"_141":792},"5556895009c6",[],"“You can get really far with one language, maybe with a toy example using a tool like Tree-sitter. But jobs that require you to unify graphs across different languages, and build usable and accurate relationships over top of them, and making sure it can work at scale, that’s different. For example, a monorepo is a living creature that changes every minute: People commit and delete code and so on. So your graph needs to keep up with that. It needs to recalculate [those relationships] with every change, every drop, every addition. The project has a graph updater designed specifically to make this real-time syncing possible.”",[],{"_20":795,"_90":268,"_269":796,"_277":801,"_279":280},"526da0bc67f6",[797],{"_20":798,"_90":273,"_274":799,"_141":800},"b5c434461aac",[],"The creator suggests that while he spent the better part of a year building a system that could dynamically map and remap graph representations of codebases without significant latency, not every org is on the same page. “Even doing something like this with AI agents will take some time, and will cost internal resources. And people don’t always have patience for these things and may want to see a one-shot solution instead. But I think the approach will get more momentum and I think many companies will adopt it eventually.”",[],{"_20":803,"_90":268,"_269":804,"_277":809,"_279":355},"05e8e1c9fe0a",[805],{"_20":806,"_90":273,"_274":807,"_141":808},"76872200c049",[],"Learnings from Building",[],{"_20":811,"_90":268,"_269":812,"_277":817,"_279":280},"8c4981547047",[813],{"_20":814,"_90":273,"_274":815,"_141":816},"58335d9df518",[],"When asked what his most important learnings from the project are, Avagyan offers a few suggestions. “One, which I think is most important, is to just build something for yourself that you would like to have. That's pretty much how this project was born. Because I was dealing with [the challenges of managing a] monorepo, and at first, I just wanted to visualize it and understand its complexity. I looked for solutions to see if there was a good product for me. I didn't find one, so I decided I would build it myself, and after releasing it publicly, it turned to be useful for other people.”",[],{"_20":819,"_90":268,"_269":820,"_277":852,"_279":280},"81d7413fc3b2",[821,825,830,834,839,843,848],{"_20":822,"_90":273,"_274":823,"_141":824},"321ac6bc0e40",[],"“Second, I would recommend building things from the perspective of thinking about what you do every day and how you can accelerate what you do and be more performant with your tools.” The creator notes another open-source project of his, ",{"_20":826,"_90":273,"_274":827,"_141":829},"9f8ed6fdab01",[828],"f040745fb71d","Croft",{"_20":831,"_90":273,"_274":832,"_141":833},"630e70cbbe50",[],", as an example. “I’m a VS Code user, but I enjoy terminal as well, so I found myself going back and forth between VS Code, ",{"_20":835,"_90":273,"_274":836,"_141":838},"94d7ac6fa32a",[837],"3f971d287b17","Neovim",{"_20":840,"_90":273,"_274":841,"_141":842},"e76bcfb5a8f3",[],", ",{"_20":844,"_90":273,"_274":845,"_141":847},"93a91dcf4857",[846],"2f238ed440f7","Zed",{"_20":849,"_90":273,"_274":850,"_141":851},"1bb94c846e83",[]," and other alternatives. I found myself thinking there should be a better way, so I built a VS Code clone in the terminal with Rust to make it super-fast. I’ve been using it every day myself and I would recommend others try it out.”",[853,855,857],{"_20":828,"_90":30,"_383":854},"https://github.com/vitali87/croft",{"_20":837,"_90":30,"_383":856},"https://neovim.io/",{"_20":846,"_90":30,"_383":858},"https://zed.dev/",{"_20":860,"_90":268,"_269":861,"_277":884,"_279":280},"6869a525750a",[862,866,871,875,880],{"_20":863,"_90":273,"_274":864,"_141":865},"30637c109bb6",[],"“Finally, I’d recommend finding a distribution channel for your work. Even the greatest product on earth won’t necessarily be noticed if you just put it on GitHub and leave it there. You need to promote it. I was fortunate enough to have worked with the founder of ",{"_20":867,"_90":273,"_274":868,"_141":870},"6424a1b96d65",[869],"48182a105088","Daily Dose of Data Science",{"_20":872,"_90":273,"_274":873,"_141":874},"3954a9df1f48",[]," when I was working on my own startup back in 2023. I got coverage for my product in this popular newsletter, which might have been the trigger that helped it ‘go viral’ on GitHub the first time. That said, I have also tried many other channels like Hacker News, LinkedIn and X posts, giving talks (including this session ",{"_20":876,"_90":273,"_274":877,"_141":879},"6f0d56991c70",[878],"41760ee29615","with Memgraph",{"_20":881,"_90":273,"_274":882,"_141":883},"dd3d4a61f74f",[],"), but eventually, the project started trending again on GitHub organically. I guess it might have to do with the ‘right solution at the right time’ phenomenon.”",[885,887],{"_20":869,"_90":30,"_383":886},"https://blog.dailydoseofds.com/",{"_20":878,"_90":30,"_383":888},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jUTq6nCEY&t=2s",{"_20":890,"_90":268,"_269":891,"_277":896,"_279":355},"1d6c6865362e",[892],{"_20":893,"_90":273,"_274":894,"_141":895},"2586e6d9e8b9",[],"The Future of Codebases: Built and Managed by AI?",[],{"_20":898,"_90":268,"_269":899,"_277":904,"_279":280},"ab8bfa185ba6",[900],{"_20":901,"_90":273,"_274":902,"_141":903},"067bce70e73c",[],"From his experience building the project, Avagyan advises anyone working in a technical capacity to learn how to orchestrate. “Software engineering is changing faster than people think. The ability to orchestrate things will be important no matter what. By that, I mean knowing many different technologies: Their strengths and weaknesses, the scalability of each thing, and when to use what.”",[],{"_20":906,"_90":268,"_269":907,"_277":920,"_279":280},"afb3c879f969",[908,912,916],{"_20":909,"_90":273,"_274":910,"_141":911},"49750bd53c8c",[],"“For example, in order to deploy applications at scale, you might need a Kubernetes cluster. You shouldn’t have to be a highly skilled DevOps engineer to know that as AI can help you there, but you would need to know ",{"_20":913,"_90":273,"_274":914,"_141":915},"7f5989d240bd",[427],"when",{"_20":917,"_90":273,"_274":918,"_141":919},"56e7f92d1742",[]," to use it, and what the pros and cons are. That will help you to have this overarching, holistic view of what it's like to build a highly scalable software engineering system.”",[],{"_20":922,"_90":268,"_269":923,"_277":928,"_279":280},"dc75d7ad8097",[924],{"_20":925,"_90":273,"_274":926,"_141":927},"c6a9980c57d2",[],"“You need to understand how the distributed systems work, and the code-graph-rag project fits really well here to help you ask architectural questions and locate potential bottlenecks, like dead code or other opportunities for optimization.”",[],{"_20":930,"_90":268,"_269":931,"_277":944,"_279":280},"628421de9da8",[932,936,940],{"_20":933,"_90":273,"_274":934,"_141":935},"0cc52c592750",[],"“It’s about having this type of ‘systems thinking,’ an understanding of system design architecture and the underlying principles of the technologies. Not just knowing ",{"_20":937,"_90":273,"_274":938,"_141":939},"d4b8c4a82cf1",[427],"what Redis is",{"_20":941,"_90":273,"_274":942,"_141":943},"ad91e713dbfb",[],", but also understanding what caching is and why it’s important. You’re going to need to apply that understanding when you think your system actually needs caching!”",[],{"_20":946,"_90":268,"_269":947,"_277":952,"_279":280},"8eaf5dda166e",[948],{"_20":949,"_90":273,"_274":950,"_141":951},"7fccb285f275",[],"“So I think orchestration will be important for quite some time, because AI is still not at the level of fully, autonomously orchestrating large-scale systems that will work smoothly and without any problems. We are not there yet.”",[],17,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/28801f05c737cc57c3c04d467a0a54838fc70ad0-1200x630.png","9d8377ac-25e6-47b7-8e40-22ee9a7cb43e","2026-08-27T16:38:00.000Z","understanding-code-by-treating-it-as-a-graph","templateType","default","Is the Key to Understanding Code Treating it as a Graph?","blogArticle",{"_287":963,"_297":1394,"_127":1395,"_300":1396,"_302":1397,"_304":1398,"_958":959,"_32":1399,"_307":961},[964,972,980,1028,1036,1040,1048,1056,1085,1093,1101,1109,1117,1125,1133,1172,1184,1196,1208,1220,1228,1236,1244,1252,1260,1268,1276,1306,1314,1322,1330,1338,1346,1354,1362,1370,1378,1386],{"_20":965,"_90":268,"_269":966,"_277":971,"_279":355},"9196fa5c1337",[967],{"_20":968,"_90":273,"_274":969,"_141":970},"daa6967db340",[],"The Unique Challenges of Mobile Compute",[],{"_20":973,"_90":268,"_269":974,"_277":979,"_279":280},"76f45bfec570",[975],{"_20":976,"_90":273,"_274":977,"_141":978},"6c276d156142",[],"A significant focus in modern AI has been on large language models with billions of parameters. Billions more parameters mean bigger training investment, and presumably, more-impressive performance. But there are emerging use cases for mobile AI inference, like offline mobile text generation and the rise of general-purpose generative models for edge that hint at a growing need for reliable mobile AI performance.",[],{"_20":981,"_90":268,"_269":982,"_277":1019,"_279":280},"af0f0de9eaae",[983,988,992,997,1001,1006,1010,1015],{"_20":984,"_90":273,"_274":985,"_141":987},"bce9edf18932",[986],"01f586bb19c8","Chris Karani",{"_20":989,"_90":273,"_274":990,"_141":991},"669b28ad0b26",[],", a longtime software engineer with specific expertise working in the mobile space, has built a variety of open-source, mobile-specific AI projects like ",{"_20":993,"_90":273,"_274":994,"_141":996},"8b6f89ec9c39",[995],"dc8c3118f86c","Wax",{"_20":998,"_90":273,"_274":999,"_141":1000},"43437631fed2",[]," and ",{"_20":1002,"_90":273,"_274":1003,"_141":1005},"4fbb11a36374",[1004],"4edd5928711b","Swarm",{"_20":1007,"_90":273,"_274":1008,"_141":1009},"e59bd93b5314",[],", and is now focusing on building a mobile-specific monitoring and release-gating platform ",{"_20":1011,"_90":273,"_274":1012,"_141":1014},"aa0cafd1ebca",[1013],"a7fbf0b65b8d","RYNO",{"_20":1016,"_90":273,"_274":1017,"_141":1018},"4ab51806f777",[]," after observing the unique challenges that on-device inference poses to software performance on mobile.",[1020,1022,1024,1026],{"_20":986,"_90":30,"_383":1021},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriskarani/",{"_20":995,"_90":30,"_383":1023},"https://github.com/christopherkarani/Wax",{"_20":1004,"_90":30,"_383":1025},"https://github.com/christopherkarani/Swarm",{"_20":1013,"_90":30,"_383":1027},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL9lcmvSs7o",{"_20":1029,"_90":268,"_269":1030,"_277":1035,"_279":280},"6a7d245a9398",[1031],{"_20":1032,"_90":273,"_274":1033,"_141":1034},"d215b9275145",[],"Below, he explains why mobile inference needs a new breed of observability, and why on-device inference may necessitate a different way to think about app development: At the edge, moving inference on-device effectively introduces a variety of new hardware-specific variables, such as device generations, OS versions, and thermal and memory constraints.",[],{"_20":1037,"_90":127,"_92":1038},"68822d00ffc2",{"_94":1039,"_90":96},"image-1dd5e966858d3cb95946cf1b3d940b1c92f2c46a-2030x554-png",{"_20":1041,"_90":268,"_269":1042,"_277":1047,"_279":280},"23fa169cb01d",[1043],{"_20":1044,"_90":273,"_274":1045,"_141":1046},"57f6112d5429",[427],"The RYNO dashboard specifically monitors on-device inference.",[],{"_20":1049,"_90":268,"_269":1050,"_277":1055,"_279":355},"5d05e23e9ffc",[1051],{"_20":1052,"_90":273,"_274":1053,"_141":1054},"d169649fc0a1",[],"How Traditional Observability Can’t Cover AI at the Edge",[],{"_20":1057,"_90":268,"_269":1058,"_277":1080,"_279":280},"1e42fff1e07f",[1059,1063,1068,1071,1076],{"_20":1060,"_90":273,"_274":1061,"_141":1062},"c4f86ecd4a57",[],"Karani explains that as a builder in the mobile space, he initially relied on popular tools like ",{"_20":1064,"_90":273,"_274":1065,"_141":1067},"471e6fe7b6f2",[1066],"f7f739690c4b","LangFuse",{"_20":1069,"_90":273,"_274":1070,"_141":1000},"4d633666c652",[],{"_20":1072,"_90":273,"_274":1073,"_141":1075},"a54412f6e2d3",[1074],"f42d14678a11","LangSmith",{"_20":1077,"_90":273,"_274":1078,"_141":1079},"ad6e4e5ad7b2",[]," for observability, but found that neither provided the monitoring coverage his projects needed. He found himself building RYNO, a flight recorder and release gate for AI in production on mobile, which focuses on privacy, safe execution traces from real devices, and turning production failures into regression tests to improve future releases.",[1081,1083],{"_20":1066,"_90":30,"_383":1082},"https://langfuse.com/",{"_20":1074,"_90":30,"_383":1084},"https://www.langchain.com/langsmith-platform",{"_20":1086,"_90":268,"_269":1087,"_277":1092,"_279":280},"4a79b7587c7b",[1088],{"_20":1089,"_90":273,"_274":1090,"_141":1091},"f0af90a0db90",[],"“The project combines the hardware state with the end AI behavior to let teams debug and figure out why model failures happen when the apps are actually in production,” the founder explains. As an example, Karani cites a team he spoke with whose mobile app that identifies plants out in the wild and diagnoses them for issues.",[],{"_20":1094,"_90":268,"_269":1095,"_277":1100,"_279":280},"f8c80b58c7b7",[1096],{"_20":1097,"_90":273,"_274":1098,"_141":1099},"756f14956665",[],"Over time, the app team noticed negative reviews in the App Store from frustrated users who found the app misidentifying plants, but when the app’s developers conducted the same tests internally, they noticed no errors. “What they didn't realize was that a lot of their users were out using their apps in high ambient temperatures. This causes a variety of issues that the existing tools just couldn't catch.”",[],{"_20":1102,"_90":268,"_269":1103,"_277":1108,"_279":280},"73f032e4b7e8",[1104],{"_20":1105,"_90":273,"_274":1106,"_141":1107},"4a033185569e",[],"“For instance, once inference is running on a phone in production, changes in thermal state, memory pressure, and available compute can change how that workload performs in production. You can see slower execution, memory-related failures, or different behavior from what you saw during testing. RYNO comes in and is able to combine the hardware state with the model output and help teams debug why their models are failing when they're out into production.”",[],{"_20":1110,"_90":268,"_269":1111,"_277":1116,"_279":355},"cc837e4097a6",[1112],{"_20":1113,"_90":273,"_274":1114,"_141":1115},"4be7b5ebf70f",[],"Closing the Loop for Mobile: Ragequitting, UX, and Regressions",[],{"_20":1118,"_90":268,"_269":1119,"_277":1124,"_279":280},"ac1a98cd7c62",[1120],{"_20":1121,"_90":273,"_274":1122,"_141":1123},"cb6169cdaa7e",[],"For consumer-level mobile applications, this type of failure can lead to the ultimate cost: Users ragequitting the app and immediately deleting it. While the founder’s aim is eventually to target optimization opportunities for any edge computing setup, he admits that mobile is his current focus. “In mobile, most apps have a high uninstall rate.”",[],{"_20":1126,"_90":268,"_269":1127,"_277":1132,"_279":280},"09e3da705404",[1128],{"_20":1129,"_90":273,"_274":1130,"_141":1131},"bb84bfa9efca",[],"To avoid grossly inaccurate outputs due to hallucinations, Karani explains that his platform runs AI jobs across five stages: Capture, explain, replay, promote, and release.",[],{"_20":1134,"_90":268,"_269":1135,"_1163":1164,"_1165":1166,"_277":1167,"_279":280},"a3c417f4e89a",[1136,1141,1145,1150,1154,1159],{"_20":1137,"_90":273,"_274":1138,"_141":1140},"14fdc7cba99a",[1139],"strong","Capture:",{"_20":1142,"_90":273,"_274":1143,"_141":1144},"aa00c58d638c",[]," Utilizing the open-source, lightweight, privacy-centric ",{"_20":1146,"_90":273,"_274":1147,"_141":1149},"62c5efc259aa",[1148],"39f4350f1285","Terra SDK",{"_20":1151,"_90":273,"_274":1152,"_141":1153},"faaca851a04b",[],", which can be embedded into mobile apps, and is built on ",{"_20":1155,"_90":273,"_274":1156,"_141":1158},"2b5210b4a320",[1157],"12ed0e79639f","open telemetry",{"_20":1160,"_90":273,"_274":1161,"_141":1162},"1cf657c9feb9",[]," to prevent vendor lock-in, and records OS version, memory pressure, thermal state, and records OS version, memory pressure, thermal state, device class, and the compute resources involved in inference, such as CPU, GPU, or Neural Engine where available","level",1,"listItem","bullet",[1168,1170],{"_20":1148,"_90":30,"_383":1169},"https://github.com/tryterra/terra-react",{"_20":1157,"_90":30,"_383":1171},"https://opentelemetry.io",{"_20":1173,"_90":268,"_269":1174,"_1163":1164,"_1165":1166,"_277":1183,"_279":280},"6bfe8b8aa55b",[1175,1179],{"_20":1176,"_90":273,"_274":1177,"_141":1178},"531d8bfb8a6c",[1139],"Explain:",{"_20":1180,"_90":273,"_274":1181,"_141":1182},"102c1b804637",[]," Utilizing the local macOS app’s ability to plot a visual timeline of device physics and model execution, identifying factors like correlating changes in device state with changes in model execution",[],{"_20":1185,"_90":268,"_269":1186,"_1163":1164,"_1165":1166,"_277":1195,"_279":280},"16a216eace7b",[1187,1191],{"_20":1188,"_90":273,"_274":1189,"_141":1190},"005091edab91",[1139],"Replay:",{"_20":1192,"_90":273,"_274":1193,"_141":1194},"6e1f8d5da353",[]," Having captured structured metadata, template IDs, token counts, and the precise physical hardware context at the time of errors, developers can use a replay button to recreate the conditions surrounding the failure to artificially reproduce the same environmental stress for testing purposes",[],{"_20":1197,"_90":268,"_269":1198,"_1163":1164,"_1165":1166,"_277":1207,"_279":280},"64a94ff32346",[1199,1203],{"_20":1200,"_90":273,"_274":1201,"_141":1202},"c2cb193596ec",[1139],"Promote:",{"_20":1204,"_90":273,"_274":1205,"_141":1206},"057867fa95b8",[]," Teams can turn a one-off production failure into a structured, repeatable evaluation",[],{"_20":1209,"_90":268,"_269":1210,"_1163":1164,"_1165":1166,"_277":1219,"_279":280},"523186127ddd",[1211,1215],{"_20":1212,"_90":273,"_274":1213,"_141":1214},"3f0388696f60",[1139],"Release:",{"_20":1216,"_90":273,"_274":1217,"_141":1218},"3802f3236628",[]," From here, the platform connects to a team CI/CD pipeline to run various evaluations on different devices with that specific eval case prior to the next app release to prevent further regressions before they make it to production",[],{"_20":1221,"_90":268,"_269":1222,"_277":1227,"_279":280},"88dd59afe227",[1223],{"_20":1224,"_90":273,"_274":1225,"_141":1226},"6cf15725e554",[],"The founder adds: “A lot of these issues also come in simple OS updates. Everything was working fine, then Apple launches a new update that introduces unexpected changes. And sometimes getting that stress test when you're testing within a controlled environment is difficult. So a lot of these issues can only be caught when the AI is actually ‘out in the wild.’”",[],{"_20":1229,"_90":268,"_269":1230,"_277":1235,"_279":280},"a4d61e87b83e",[1231],{"_20":1232,"_90":273,"_274":1233,"_141":1234},"c63132c0118c",[],"“Sometimes you have to actually catch these failures once they're actually already out there because these systems are so non deterministic. They're not like traditional, deterministic software where you might have a really tight unit test case, so certain errors don’t reach production.”",[],{"_20":1237,"_90":268,"_269":1238,"_277":1243,"_279":280},"51f37cb77d65",[1239],{"_20":1240,"_90":273,"_274":1241,"_141":1242},"9098f81dfbb7",[],"“Because there's 100 million ways that the AI can actually fail. So, one of the best approaches is having this sort of loop that we've created to catch them quickly in production and ensure that they don't persist in the future.”",[],{"_20":1245,"_90":268,"_269":1246,"_277":1251,"_279":355},"6e814b0ff721",[1247],{"_20":1248,"_90":273,"_274":1249,"_141":1250},"07bb1c6dbf0f",[],"Building for Privacy and Memory Optimization",[],{"_20":1253,"_90":268,"_269":1254,"_277":1259,"_279":280},"564424a3cff6",[1255],{"_20":1256,"_90":273,"_274":1257,"_141":1258},"4c7d752edc34",[],"Karani explains that privacy was a key part of the project due to its initial focus on iOS. “We believe that the on-device AI on iOS is some of the best in the world right now. The Apple Neural Engine lets users run these really awesome models. But for iOS and mobile users, privacy is very important. It’s common even for experienced teams to accidentally violate user privacy while trying to collect the debugging context they desperately need.”",[],{"_20":1261,"_90":268,"_269":1262,"_277":1267,"_279":280},"1d35f785606e",[1263],{"_20":1264,"_90":273,"_274":1265,"_141":1266},"8a890a6f2be8",[],"“This is how teams are silently trying to capture model regression with internal tooling. They captured a prompt and its output, and those contain extremely sensitive data, so you end up violating user privacy. To fix that for RYNO, we actually have a ‘never log’ list. No screenshots, no user prompts, no contacts lists, no physical addresses, no chat transcripts.”",[],{"_20":1269,"_90":268,"_269":1270,"_277":1275,"_279":280},"846ca4d16b40",[1271],{"_20":1272,"_90":273,"_274":1273,"_141":1274},"8da126fcdaa0",[],"“We use a minimal telemetry schema. Instead of logging what the user has typed, we log a structured shape and the operational health of the mathematical transaction. We've been using a lot of tools to ensure that teams are able to get the metadata that they need to reproduce these failures while still avoiding violations of user privacy in the process. We think this is super-important for on-device AI.”",[],{"_20":1277,"_90":268,"_269":1278,"_277":1301,"_279":280},"ea0d0888f24d",[1279,1283,1288,1292,1297],{"_20":1280,"_90":273,"_274":1281,"_141":1282},"c484d592a241",[],"Aside from privacy, the founder notes that going lightweight was an important architectural consideration to run successfully on edge. “Because of the memory pressure issues with the ",{"_20":1284,"_90":273,"_274":1285,"_141":1287},"e39d37c1ea2c",[1286],"a281272b15f2","Jetson Linux",{"_20":1289,"_90":273,"_274":1290,"_141":1291},"7c27af004f44",[],", we made a key decision early on to build the core of the SDK in ",{"_20":1293,"_90":273,"_274":1294,"_141":1296},"a74babccffb6",[1295],"a0ea04ccc546","Zig",{"_20":1298,"_90":273,"_274":1299,"_141":1300},"49524083c6a5",[],". This gave us a lot of control over memory pressure and it gave us full control over how we actually want to architect memory use for the SDK, because on-device AI uses a lot of resources on mobile.”",[1302,1304],{"_20":1286,"_90":30,"_383":1303},"https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-linux-r3643",{"_20":1295,"_90":30,"_383":1305},"https://ziglang.org/",{"_20":1307,"_90":268,"_269":1308,"_277":1313,"_279":280},"e379b830e1eb",[1309],{"_20":1310,"_90":273,"_274":1311,"_141":1312},"090dfbc5e2fc",[],"“So we needed to build an SDK that's extremely lightweight. Because we’re running an observability SDK on constrained hardware, it would need to stay lightweight enough to not create another source of memory pressure competing against the model it’s observing. We think that for edge AI, debugging is something that is going to become a big problem. And it's totally different from how current tools actually enable teams to receive telemetry.”",[],{"_20":1315,"_90":268,"_269":1316,"_277":1321,"_279":280},"d120d7d1c55e",[1317],{"_20":1318,"_90":273,"_274":1319,"_141":1320},"017f00a9c3a6",[],"The founder admits that part of his inspiration came from his own analysis of the AI space, which increasingly seems dominated by billion-dollar vendors pushing trillion-parameter models. “We believe wholeheartedly that edge AI is 100% the future. Smaller models are improving at a rapid rate. Vendors like Apple and Google keep pumping a lot of money in the space, and we think that the kind of benefits that edge AI provides are undeniable.”",[],{"_20":1323,"_90":268,"_269":1324,"_277":1329,"_279":280},"88259a07d188",[1325],{"_20":1326,"_90":273,"_274":1327,"_141":1328},"007257714f01",[],"“First, there’s privacy. Second, there’s improvements to latency, and third, is cost reduction. As the models keep improving, people are going to start realizing and taking this extremely seriously as we move forward. The space is still very early. But the world I see in the future is one in which we'll have on-device AI everywhere you go. There’s already on-device AI in cars, and we'll have robots that need on-device AI, for television, mobile, and so on.”",[],{"_20":1331,"_90":268,"_269":1332,"_277":1337,"_279":280},"fa06d141f9b1",[1333],{"_20":1334,"_90":273,"_274":1335,"_141":1336},"8c15a64289b3",[],"“Yes, the Cloud will always be where true intelligence, the larger computational intelligence, lives. But more and more companies are going to keep moving towards leveraging the on-device AI space as we move forward. And I think that's why Apple has also been putting a lot of effort year over year into the Apple Neural Engine and every chip that they release, prioritizing the inference power that they can actually pull out of the on device models.”",[],{"_20":1339,"_90":268,"_269":1340,"_277":1345,"_279":355},"bb08c1e33c67",[1341],{"_20":1342,"_90":273,"_274":1343,"_141":1344},"8225a1eccfb5",[],"Founder Lessons, Enterprise Adoption, and the Future of Compute",[],{"_20":1347,"_90":268,"_269":1348,"_277":1353,"_279":280},"0f1dca34a263",[1349],{"_20":1350,"_90":273,"_274":1351,"_141":1352},"5446dd4a7a6b",[],"For founders looking to build on-device AI products, Karani suggests that his own deep understanding of the space has been fundamental to his progress. “I think having a good understanding of how the hardware state actually works is important. The computation and the OS system attributes during inference time...that’s a different problem space that a lot of engineers need to understand if they're going into the on-device space.”",[],{"_20":1355,"_90":268,"_269":1356,"_277":1361,"_279":280},"2f49784b8a7f",[1357],{"_20":1358,"_90":273,"_274":1359,"_141":1360},"bd75e9744e7c",[],"“Inference is one thing, input and output of prompts is another. But for a lot of these models, you have to understand they're not in a problem space that is similar to running on a large data center in Atlanta with perfect resources all the time. These are models that are running on-device with varying, different pressures in constrained environments. Understanding those environments is key to actually building the right systems for AI solutions.”",[],{"_20":1363,"_90":268,"_269":1364,"_277":1369,"_279":280},"d217ab50b70d",[1365],{"_20":1366,"_90":273,"_274":1367,"_141":1368},"80ee14ec9ff8",[],"On the question of why device-specific telemetry still doesn’t seem to be mainstream at the enterprise level, the founder points back to how the tool ecosystem for edge computing is still in its early days. “There’s a lack of tooling. A lot of the enterprise companies we speak to are concerned over their lack of telemetry and understanding of how models behave when they’re actually out into production.”",[],{"_20":1371,"_90":268,"_269":1372,"_277":1377,"_279":280},"66d1e4b93387",[1373],{"_20":1374,"_90":273,"_274":1375,"_141":1376},"f3f842438cd8",[],"“For instance, we were speaking to a medical company that was trying to launch a very privacy-centric, on-device model to different customers. But what they found is that they just couldn’t risk getting an incorrect diagnosis from the model (and not being able to understand why it happened). Existing tools just didn't cater to them. The space is so early and emerging and a lot of the focus is on cloud models.”",[],{"_20":1379,"_90":268,"_269":1380,"_277":1385,"_279":280},"37063324755f",[1381],{"_20":1382,"_90":273,"_274":1383,"_141":1384},"345027e2fcbe",[],"The founder notes that while high-end cloud models get a lot of attention, they’re also currently leading to a lot of untenable costs. “I think that's what's going to push enterprises more into on-device AI. And as [on-device models] improve, the solutions will become simpler, but we need to provide them with the kind of tooling that enables them to ship on-device AI reliably to their users.”",[],{"_20":1387,"_90":268,"_269":1388,"_277":1393,"_279":280},"8e071c2e06f0",[1389],{"_20":1390,"_90":273,"_274":1391,"_141":1392},"6731a73112cc",[],"Will there be an inflection point at which everything flips from cloud to local? Maybe not. “I think people are going to have a balance of the two. Teams will leverage on-device models for certain tasks and route to cloud models when they need heavy computational work to be completed. I think the future will be a hybrid of the two. I don’t think on-device AI is going to completely negate the need for Cloud, but I think cost and performance are going to push people to try to understand how to leverage a hybrid of the two. And the majority of the work we do today will be pushed to the on-device models for inference.”",[],13,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/b4042cb54ee8f7b7f4ab04864bd8e1cf7a157ff6-1200x630.png","f7ca2bf6-bf0c-4904-aa01-faede655849e","2026-08-25T16:22:00.000Z","why-on-device-inference-needs-custom-observability","Why On-Device Inference Needs Custom Observability",{"_287":1401,"_297":2124,"_127":2125,"_300":2126,"_302":2127,"_304":2128,"_958":959,"_32":2129,"_307":961},[1402,1410,1440,1448,1496,1500,1515,1523,1542,1561,1577,1585,1615,1623,1631,1639,1658,1677,1693,1701,1709,1718,1726,1734,1742,1761,1796,1804,1828,1847,1855,1863,1879,1887,1895,1910,1918,1926,1934,1953,1977,2003,2011,2038,2046,2054,2062,2070,2078,2097,2116],{"_20":1403,"_90":268,"_269":1404,"_277":1409,"_279":355},"7a24ac14d07e",[1405],{"_20":1406,"_90":273,"_274":1407,"_141":1408},"48d3443f20a8",[],"How Can Agents Be the Future if They’re not Reliable?",[],{"_20":1411,"_90":268,"_269":1412,"_277":1435,"_279":280},"ff2d4b14fb40",[1413,1417,1422,1426,1431],{"_20":1414,"_90":273,"_274":1415,"_141":1416},"4b0676b5544d",[],"Some reports suggest that as many as ",{"_20":1418,"_90":273,"_274":1419,"_141":1421},"7633cd943027",[1420],"72307ba313ce","25%",{"_20":1423,"_90":273,"_274":1424,"_141":1425},"103406d76f91",[]," of enterprises have adopted agentic workflows. Isn’t this the era of AI agents? Why isn’t the number higher? Aside from predictable enterprise-level concerns (",{"_20":1427,"_90":273,"_274":1428,"_141":1430},"01325be45d21",[1429],"c2f310fcffb7","49%",{"_20":1432,"_90":273,"_274":1433,"_141":1434},"c145585f2175",[]," of enterprises are reportedly holding off due to security concerns, for instance), agents haven’t proven to be reliable workhorses at scale, particularly for long-horizon tasks. Not yet, anyway.",[1436,1438],{"_20":1420,"_90":30,"_383":1437},"https://snyk.io/blog/agentic-development-lifecycle/",{"_20":1429,"_90":30,"_383":1439},"https://www.forrester.com/blogs/the-state-of-agentic-ai-in-2026-companies-are-chasing-few-are-catching/",{"_20":1441,"_90":268,"_269":1442,"_277":1447,"_279":280},"72359702785e",[1443],{"_20":1444,"_90":273,"_274":1445,"_141":1446},"c805aa2c35cb",[],"Agents still can’t “remember” their learnings from previous successful runs, still hallucinate when their context window becomes full, and still have a number of other issues. Wasn’t the perfect agentic future supposed to feature technical teams commanding fleets of infallible, well-trained agents to do their bidding?",[],{"_20":1449,"_90":268,"_269":1450,"_277":1489,"_279":280},"24ebf08aefeb",[1451,1455,1460,1464,1469,1472,1476,1480,1485],{"_20":1452,"_90":273,"_274":1453,"_141":1454},"0008706ad2a9",[],"Open-source creator ",{"_20":1456,"_90":273,"_274":1457,"_141":1459},"bfecdcdc2d8e",[1458],"f4b6e64c3af0","Mike Hostetler",{"_20":1461,"_90":273,"_274":1462,"_141":1463},"c55ab4189631",[]," believes such a future is possible if systems combine strong guardrails with fault-tolerant infrastructure designed for large-scale deployments. Here, he explains why he built his project, ",{"_20":1465,"_90":273,"_274":1466,"_141":1468},"1b8ae31d51e4",[1467],"b47c6c24e0ab","Jido",{"_20":1470,"_90":273,"_274":1471,"_141":842},"4ac8dc73cc44",[],{"_20":1473,"_90":273,"_274":1474,"_141":1475},"2f226b078804",[427],"not",{"_20":1477,"_90":273,"_274":1478,"_141":1479},"7c9c7486bda0",[]," using Python, the de facto programming language for AI, but using ",{"_20":1481,"_90":273,"_274":1482,"_141":1484},"be12332c52e1",[1483],"f60c98fe6c05","Elixir",{"_20":1486,"_90":273,"_274":1487,"_141":1488},"1edf6210f9e9",[],", which was inherently designed to support maintainability and massive concurrency.",[1490,1492,1494],{"_20":1458,"_90":30,"_383":1491},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikehostetler/",{"_20":1467,"_90":30,"_383":1493},"https://github.com/agentjido/jido",{"_20":1483,"_90":30,"_383":1495},"https://elixir-lang.org/",{"_20":1497,"_90":127,"_92":1498},"4bd56dd08d69",{"_94":1499,"_90":96},"image-734e0114ac063680123b3471dd5f4f588375e8fa-1280x591-jpg",{"_20":1501,"_90":268,"_269":1502,"_277":1512,"_279":280},"b03c891ae9f1",[1503,1507],{"_20":1504,"_90":273,"_274":1505,"_141":1506},"0c2b5b8ee499",[427],"Mike Hostetler discusses how AI is changing the business of building software on the Software Without Borders podcast. Image courtesy ",{"_20":1508,"_90":273,"_274":1509,"_141":1511},"a2615c1217b2",[1510,427],"ea2317db32a8","Software \nWithout Borders",[1513],{"_20":1510,"_90":30,"_383":1514},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVYqx_FDTPU",{"_20":1516,"_90":268,"_269":1517,"_277":1522,"_279":355},"378419cb6538",[1518],{"_20":1519,"_90":273,"_274":1520,"_141":1521},"b95d6349db96",[],"Resolving Nondeterministic LLMs and Deterministic Algorithms",[],{"_20":1524,"_90":268,"_269":1525,"_277":1539,"_279":280},"87b25977462d",[1526,1530,1535],{"_20":1527,"_90":273,"_274":1528,"_141":1529},"2cb97e117942",[],"Hostetler, a veteran developer and founder, got his start working on the ",{"_20":1531,"_90":273,"_274":1532,"_141":1534},"5df850edc9eb",[1533],"e7748844a8dd","jQuery",{"_20":1536,"_90":273,"_274":1537,"_141":1538},"e6f957aa936c",[]," ecosystem, from which he built a career, a startup, and a lifelong curiosity about technology. He explains that his introduction to Elixir came from a tour of duty working in distributed systems, which inspired him to think through the challenge of being able to run multiple agents with real-world reliability. “I envisioned a future of ‘10,000 agents per human.’”",[1540],{"_20":1533,"_90":30,"_383":1541},"https://jquery.com",{"_20":1543,"_90":268,"_269":1544,"_277":1558,"_279":280},"0609f26003a6",[1545,1549,1554],{"_20":1546,"_90":273,"_274":1547,"_141":1548},"11d3ae480877",[],"The creator notes that his original vision was running 10,000 agents on a single ",{"_20":1550,"_90":273,"_274":1551,"_141":1553},"bd8a2854d8b0",[1552],"f82f2e7f077d","Raspberry Pi",{"_20":1555,"_90":273,"_274":1556,"_141":1557},"3efb34af94bf",[],". In other words, in a resource-constrained environment with no direct access to LLMs. Models were getting better, but capital expenditure from foundation labs continued to skyrocket.",[1559],{"_20":1552,"_90":30,"_383":1560},"https://www.raspberrypi.com/",{"_20":1562,"_90":268,"_269":1563,"_277":1576,"_279":280},"c7d5705ac245",[1564,1568,1572],{"_20":1565,"_90":273,"_274":1566,"_141":1567},"22d5ed497f6c",[],"Hostetler suggests his goal was to make the best of both worlds: Capitalize on the improving performance of state-of-the-art models, combined with performant infrastructure that wouldn’t break the bank. “The intersection of these two ideas is: Agents needed to be easy to build, easy to deploy, easy to orchestrate and coordinate. And then, 20% of your agents could use an LLM as the thinking step. But it needed to be just as easy to build 80% of your agents on what I call ",{"_20":1569,"_90":273,"_274":1570,"_141":1571},"ae3aaa793b3f",[427],"classical AI algorithms",{"_20":1573,"_90":273,"_274":1574,"_141":1575},"c8c502a31d12",[],".”",[],{"_20":1578,"_90":268,"_269":1579,"_277":1584,"_279":280},"5e457368ab04",[1580],{"_20":1581,"_90":273,"_274":1582,"_141":1583},"ed9ee37193c9",[],"The builder clarifies that ‘classic algorithms’ also include logic that predates LLMs: “Everything from a finite state machine to a behavior tree to hierarchical task networks. Video game AI as well as LLM AI. And those could work in concert and then be easily and inexpensively deployable for a user, which gets into the real pragmatic piece.”",[],{"_20":1586,"_90":268,"_269":1587,"_277":1610,"_279":280},"c843c70bed8d",[1588,1592,1597,1601,1606],{"_20":1589,"_90":273,"_274":1590,"_141":1591},"9425a3cff2d7",[],"Hostetler clarifies that despite Jido’s explicit “AI optional” clause, his approach to AI is less skeptical and more pragmatic. “I love the nondeterminism of LLMs. I love pushing those boundaries. Just by happenstance, having put my own open-source project out there, I got to know ",{"_20":1593,"_90":273,"_274":1594,"_141":1596},"9a152e0af025",[1595],"c4b6a4a077f8","Geoff Huntley",{"_20":1598,"_90":273,"_274":1599,"_141":1600},"f8941b7433c0",[]," and tried ",{"_20":1602,"_90":273,"_274":1603,"_141":1605},"b9826d2e81c5",[1604],"cfe50a2150c7","the Ralph Wiggum loop",{"_20":1607,"_90":273,"_274":1608,"_141":1609},"64bca5e784fe",[]," before it was publicly available. Loved it, and had Jido running loops.”",[1611,1613],{"_20":1595,"_90":30,"_383":1612},"https://ghuntley.com",{"_20":1604,"_90":30,"_383":1614},"https://ghuntley.com/loop/",{"_20":1616,"_90":268,"_269":1617,"_277":1622,"_279":280},"103cd73a04dd",[1618],{"_20":1619,"_90":273,"_274":1620,"_141":1621},"9d7796132c04",[],"“But I quickly observed that [with successive loops], you end up compounding quality issues and you run into these challenges.” The builder’s observations led him to start experimenting with combinations of agentic loops and classical, deterministic AI algorithms, based on a self-taught course of study.",[],{"_20":1624,"_90":268,"_269":1625,"_277":1630,"_279":280},"0291b7718207",[1626],{"_20":1627,"_90":273,"_274":1628,"_141":1629},"094ef0d4310f",[],"“I've used my computer science degree more in the last two years than I have in my entire career, which is just so much fun. So I’m not ‘anti-AI’ at all. What I want to put forward is something that lets you use both modes of tooling in the same context, instead of having a ‘developer mentality’ that requires a hard switch between ‘Here’s an agent that has an LLM as its brain’ versus an agent that has a finite state machine as its brain, and you have to build a bridge between the two. Jido makes both into first-class citizens. I knew as an engineer, as an architect, I would want both.”",[],{"_20":1632,"_90":268,"_269":1633,"_277":1638,"_279":355},"8b84eea66041",[1634],{"_20":1635,"_90":273,"_274":1636,"_141":1637},"66b38a3b5c20",[],"How Can Agents Master Long-Horizon Jobs?",[],{"_20":1640,"_90":268,"_269":1641,"_277":1655,"_279":280},"47dc737f6c1e",[1642,1646,1651],{"_20":1643,"_90":273,"_274":1644,"_141":1645},"867bc7833538",[],"Hostetler admits to reading, and speculating about, the news headlines about agents seemingly getting closer to the holy grail of succeeding on complicated, long-horizon tasks in a single, zero-shot run. “Yes, I read the headlines, and I see the ",{"_20":1647,"_90":273,"_274":1648,"_141":1650},"06d1b38bf227",[1649],"2ea1dd0e9cf9","METR reports",{"_20":1652,"_90":273,"_274":1653,"_141":1654},"8b4acaa0ac87",[],". I would say I have hypotheses about the topic, but I acknowledge the limits of my hypotheses.”",[1656],{"_20":1649,"_90":30,"_383":1657},"https://metr.org/time-horizons/",{"_20":1659,"_90":268,"_269":1660,"_277":1674,"_279":280},"8d0acac52e79",[1661,1665,1670],{"_20":1662,"_90":273,"_274":1663,"_141":1664},"2c71dc2a8678",[],"“We see new model drops like the [recalled-and-re-released] ",{"_20":1666,"_90":273,"_274":1667,"_141":1669},"45c1bbef0be9",[1668],"f0386e204d9f","Fable 5",{"_20":1671,"_90":273,"_274":1672,"_141":1673},"1fbdf1ad0724",[],", which can reportedly do a long-running task for eight hours, uninterrupted.” The creator notes that it can be hard to separate reality from hype, but notes that foundation labs may have different incentives than the rest of us.",[1675],{"_20":1668,"_90":30,"_383":1676},"https://www.anthropic.com/news/fable-mythos-access",{"_20":1678,"_90":268,"_269":1679,"_277":1692,"_279":280},"a2cf64eff7a9",[1680,1684,1688],{"_20":1681,"_90":273,"_274":1682,"_141":1683},"eaf492689fdb",[],"“I would think there is a lot of pressure to embed the capability ",{"_20":1685,"_90":273,"_274":1686,"_141":1687},"92183232c806",[427],"behind the walls",{"_20":1689,"_90":273,"_274":1690,"_141":1691},"8058aab96629",[]," of the model; to make Fable better via academic RL, or to have a lot of infrastructure running between the API call and the model itself. You see them pulling in things like their web API tools, and doing everything to make Anthropic a walled garden for any corporate customer.”",[],{"_20":1694,"_90":268,"_269":1695,"_277":1700,"_279":280},"41e706c870c8",[1696],{"_20":1697,"_90":273,"_274":1698,"_141":1699},"14797e507230",[],"Hostetler contrasts the lofty ambitions of foundation labs against his day-to-day work, which requires him to service ERP systems maintained by tech leaders across the country who need reliable performance, day in and day out.",[],{"_20":1702,"_90":268,"_269":1703,"_277":1708,"_279":280},"c04dd4c136d2",[1704],{"_20":1705,"_90":273,"_274":1706,"_141":1707},"840ee6f95b58",[],"The creator suggests starting from a strong harness, but also looking into reliability. “A really concrete step is to start with a very high-quality model harness if I'm going to build my own agent. Yes, admittedly, Elixir’s philosophy is ‘let it crash,’ but you don't really want that to happen in practice. Your focus should be: How do you recover from the crash? How do you deliver high-quality software from that?”",[],{"_20":1710,"_90":268,"_269":1711,"_277":1716,"_279":1717},"5824b8efe53d",[1712],{"_20":1713,"_90":273,"_274":1714,"_141":1715},"16d38849b2d4",[],"“Elixir’s philosophy is ‘let it crash,’ but you don't really want that to happen in practice. Your focus should be: How do you recover from the crash? How do you deliver high-quality software from that?” -Mike Hostetler, Creator/Jido",[],"blockquote",{"_20":1719,"_90":268,"_269":1720,"_277":1725,"_279":355},"5959d9db324a",[1721],{"_20":1722,"_90":273,"_274":1723,"_141":1724},"9adc46734820",[],"Squaring the Circle: Autonomous Agents vs. Reliable Uptime",[],{"_20":1727,"_90":268,"_269":1728,"_277":1733,"_279":280},"b4fc4a69d6f3",[1729],{"_20":1730,"_90":273,"_274":1731,"_141":1732},"e958458240eb",[],"The builder recognizes the gap between LLM-powered agents that often fall down for a variety of reasons and Elixir-based systems like Discord and Pinterest that are expected to provide continuous uptime for millions of users. “Without getting too technical, this really was a key design decision of Jido itself.”",[],{"_20":1735,"_90":268,"_269":1736,"_277":1741,"_279":280},"40ebc9c9d5ad",[1737],{"_20":1738,"_90":273,"_274":1739,"_141":1740},"9b48defee678",[],"Hostetler explains that the project was designed to accommodate both builders of independent, solo agents as well as those building for coordinated, multi-agent use cases. “And also, there’s all the infrastructure concerns for when you go to deploy: Where does it live? How is it persisted? It's persisted with what I consider to be two schools of thought.”",[],{"_20":1743,"_90":268,"_269":1744,"_277":1758,"_279":280},"01a202626a6c",[1745,1749,1754],{"_20":1746,"_90":273,"_274":1747,"_141":1748},"6a69eed46b2a",[],"“The first [persistence story] is that I persist my ",{"_20":1750,"_90":273,"_274":1751,"_141":1753},"be252cd6a312",[1752],"e73f4b0caaf3","BEAM system",{"_20":1755,"_90":273,"_274":1756,"_141":1757},"888079506d54",[]," back to a durable store, like a Postgres database which is centralized. No issue there. And I would say that more than half our users use this. The other key story is what I call the fully distributed, fault-tolerant approach for scale that you get into with the really big deployments, such as WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger. Multi-region, multi-clustered...the big stuff.”",[1759],{"_20":1752,"_90":30,"_383":1760},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEAM_(Erlang_virtual_machine)",{"_20":1762,"_90":268,"_269":1763,"_277":1793,"_279":280},"52380ad616db",[1764,1768,1772,1776,1780,1784,1789],{"_20":1765,"_90":273,"_274":1766,"_141":1767},"04e742e52dfa",[],"“Jido was geared for [large-scale deployments]. We could get into the specifics of how Jido was created to live within the BEAM itself, but it ",{"_20":1769,"_90":273,"_274":1770,"_141":1771},"7f2912ffef49",[427],"is",{"_20":1773,"_90":273,"_274":1774,"_141":1775},"f38721e57e56",[]," possible. And there are nuances here, too. People come to the project and they sometimes feel like it's overbuilt. Case in point, when you send a message into a Jido agent, we use a dedicated message envelope called a ",{"_20":1777,"_90":273,"_274":1778,"_141":1779},"360df35b7e3c",[427],"Jido signal",{"_20":1781,"_90":273,"_274":1782,"_141":1783},"51665ddc50c6",[],", which, when you're in a single-node use case is really and truly overkill. And yet it's the standard built on the ",{"_20":1785,"_90":273,"_274":1786,"_141":1788},"152bbc74099b",[1787],"0abd3bbf8418","CloudEvents spec",{"_20":1790,"_90":273,"_274":1791,"_141":1792},"ca903e998961",[]," (which is independent of, and exists outside of Elixir).”",[1794],{"_20":1787,"_90":30,"_383":1795},"https://cloudevents.io/",{"_20":1797,"_90":268,"_269":1798,"_277":1803,"_279":280},"46faea6fef5d",[1799],{"_20":1800,"_90":273,"_274":1801,"_141":1802},"e670c10a6d1b",[],"“We do this because you can't have it both ways: You can't have your typical simple JSON payload alongside a robust, enterprise-grade, transport-agnostic CloudEvents envelope and do the same thing. You've got to pick a lane. And so, Jido picked the ‘robust and scalable’ lane. I do work with some teams that are now asking me about the multi-cluster use case. I’m working toward a demo of a multi-region cluster independent of a durable store with resilient agents.”",[],{"_20":1805,"_90":268,"_269":1806,"_277":1827,"_279":280},"8a6207353488",[1807,1811,1815,1819,1823],{"_20":1808,"_90":273,"_274":1809,"_141":1810},"775967e75006",[],"“To clarify, everything I just discussed was ",{"_20":1812,"_90":273,"_274":1813,"_141":1814},"5cfaaca93e88",[427],"outside",{"_20":1816,"_90":273,"_274":1817,"_141":1818},"97a4f29363fe",[]," the agentic loop. ",{"_20":1820,"_90":273,"_274":1821,"_141":1822},"accaff227757",[427],"Within",{"_20":1824,"_90":273,"_274":1825,"_141":1826},"83672844a0e3",[]," the agentic loop of determinism versus nondeterminism, there are guardrails within which Jido has to operate. It can't just go do everything because it was meant for the Raspberry Pi use case. Because Elixir and BEAM can natively cluster, you could easily have a deploy to support a use case for something like, let’s say, Internet of Things (IoT).”",[],{"_20":1829,"_90":268,"_269":1830,"_277":1844,"_279":280},"36dc5918428c",[1831,1835,1840],{"_20":1832,"_90":273,"_274":1833,"_141":1834},"f9f53a4cd67b",[],"“For example, you’re going to have a central cluster that then works with Jido agents that are deployed in an IoT setting that talk back to the central cluster, and you'd have two agents communicating with one another. You could have that modality in a larger deployment. As an example, one of the big successes in the Elixir world is the robot control project ",{"_20":1836,"_90":273,"_274":1837,"_141":1839},"30ba83fa35f4",[1838],"74bfc2d507f3","Beam Bots",{"_20":1841,"_90":273,"_274":1842,"_141":1843},"ac05df5ad6aa",[],", which adopted Jido natively, so we’re seeing use cases for non-clustered low-level IoT all the way up to your typical Claude Code agent harness.”",[1845],{"_20":1838,"_90":30,"_383":1846},"https://github.com/beam-bots",{"_20":1848,"_90":268,"_269":1849,"_277":1854,"_279":355},"6471f5331431",[1850],{"_20":1851,"_90":273,"_274":1852,"_141":1853},"88eb6436d108",[],"How Startup Founders Should Think About Agentic Products",[],{"_20":1856,"_90":268,"_269":1857,"_277":1862,"_279":280},"b02dc08a377e",[1858],{"_20":1859,"_90":273,"_274":1860,"_141":1861},"71c2612c69e4",[],"When asked how he would advise startup founders thinking of launching agentic products, Hostetler offers a handful of suggestions. “For your first level of planning, I would say: Focus on the default. How you define what an ‘agent’ is could be colored by your Claude Code glasses! Make sure that as you're defining an agent in terms of what you bring into your infrastructure, and that you have a tighter, concrete definition of what that is.”",[],{"_20":1864,"_90":268,"_269":1865,"_277":1878,"_279":280},"322cd96a4729",[1866,1870,1874],{"_20":1867,"_90":273,"_274":1868,"_141":1869},"a7c7ebbd0554",[],"“Second, the other mistake that I've seen (and have made personally) is that everybody wants to let the LLM ‘take the wheel.’ At the point when you're designing infrastructure to build a company on, you have to draw clear boundaries between nondeterminism and determinism, and create gates to bring it back and forth. And this is ",{"_20":1871,"_90":273,"_274":1872,"_141":1873},"1ea4bce42d9f",[427],"outside of",{"_20":1875,"_90":273,"_274":1876,"_141":1877},"9510224427a1",[]," the agentic loop.”",[],{"_20":1880,"_90":268,"_269":1881,"_277":1886,"_279":280},"e80672b9d929",[1882],{"_20":1883,"_90":273,"_274":1884,"_141":1885},"61e9e3aed2a8",[],"The creator suggests that customer expectations for agentic projects have grown over time. “After a few years, we’ve seen the patterns that ‘work,’ whether it's natural language or dynamic UI, we know the patterns to create user value and what users expect. The innovation has shifted from, ‘We can do just about anything,’ to ‘The user expectations are pretty much there, so how do you deliver on that?’”",[],{"_20":1888,"_90":268,"_269":1889,"_277":1894,"_279":280},"32013237d35f",[1890],{"_20":1891,"_90":273,"_274":1892,"_141":1893},"95b20553d1ab",[],"Hostetler describes an interesting project a friend built in Elixir that effectively replicated Claude Code’s functionality, but for posting on LinkedIn, using a dedicated agent with a specific ID. “Persistence wasn't dynamically allocated, but the agent would persist, and then it would hibernate and rehydrate when you wanted to edit a piece of content.”",[],{"_20":1896,"_90":268,"_269":1897,"_277":1909,"_279":280},"3309765c1194",[1898,1902,1906],{"_20":1899,"_90":273,"_274":1900,"_141":1901},"6b38e3208d9b",[],"The project let users edit posts normally via the LinkedIn GUI, but also supported giving instructions to a coordinator agent. “The key is, he made that persistent throughout the entire experience. So, no matter which modality you were interacting with, there was a kind of predefined team structure for how the agents would interact with your content. And it just struck me as this really innovative mental leap, that any agentic products I see ",{"_20":1903,"_90":273,"_274":1904,"_141":1905},"302d71f6b276",[427],"aren't thinking big enough",{"_20":1907,"_90":273,"_274":1908,"_141":1575},"5e2c8479951c",[],[],{"_20":1911,"_90":268,"_269":1912,"_277":1917,"_279":280},"f9024ac9c07d",[1913],{"_20":1914,"_90":273,"_274":1915,"_141":1916},"090d9b48e200",[],"The creator suggests that the main challenge he’d offer to startup founders and product owners is to think bigger. “I don't see a lot of product owners thinking about [larger ideas] because they're really stuck in the mindset of, ‘Claude Code is my agent. It can do everything. I have to always use Claude Code.’ I say: ‘No, you really need to break out of that mental model.’”",[],{"_20":1919,"_90":268,"_269":1920,"_277":1925,"_279":1717},"d279075f7c24",[1921],{"_20":1922,"_90":273,"_274":1923,"_141":1924},"1407b21e0ca6",[],"“It just struck me...that any agentic products I see aren't thinking big enough. I don't see a lot of product owners thinking about [larger ideas] because they're really stuck in the mindset of, ‘Claude Code is my agent. I say: ‘No, you really need to break out of that mental model.’”",[],{"_20":1927,"_90":268,"_269":1928,"_277":1933,"_279":355},"8bd22d228d02",[1929],{"_20":1930,"_90":273,"_274":1931,"_141":1932},"febccbe3dad6",[],"How to Think About Enterprise Adoption",[],{"_20":1935,"_90":268,"_269":1936,"_277":1950,"_279":280},"55d44d50b054",[1937,1941,1946],{"_20":1938,"_90":273,"_274":1939,"_141":1940},"140634326dd3",[],"When asked how he would advise ambitious startup founders looking to sell AI products to enterprises, Hostetler draws upon his own day-to-day experience. “I would say that we're early. I would acknowledge the timeline displacement, ",{"_20":1942,"_90":273,"_274":1943,"_141":1945},"60c8c804bc83",[1944],"395e4914b63e","Ray Kurzweil’s",{"_20":1947,"_90":273,"_274":1948,"_141":1949},"940cd7aa0849",[]," riff on the William Gibson quote about the future being here, just not evenly distributed.”",[1951],{"_20":1944,"_90":30,"_383":1952},"https://www.writingsbyraykurzweil.com/the-law-of-accelerating-returns",{"_20":1954,"_90":268,"_269":1955,"_277":1976,"_279":280},"69e3ce55443f",[1956,1960,1964,1968,1972],{"_20":1957,"_90":273,"_274":1958,"_141":1959},"c2cbce688847",[],"“What's happening in enterprises is that there are engineering teams who ",{"_20":1961,"_90":273,"_274":1962,"_141":1963},"8f43979ee05a",[427],"are ",{"_20":1965,"_90":273,"_274":1966,"_141":1967},"7386ba0066ca",[],"using the latest tools, and they're on that curve somewhere. But ",{"_20":1969,"_90":273,"_274":1970,"_141":1971},"80dac42e9497",[427],"the operations teams",{"_20":1973,"_90":273,"_274":1974,"_141":1975},"f3f8661263be",[]," are just starting.” The creator notes that he works with operations teams that are just starting to encounter the same challenges that engineering teams faced 18 months ago: Worrying whether AI will replace them, realizing AI likely won’t replace them, then trying to figure out how to fit into this brave new world.",[],{"_20":1978,"_90":268,"_269":1979,"_277":2000,"_279":280},"d6bdea3ba045",[1980,1984,1989,1993,1997],{"_20":1981,"_90":273,"_274":1982,"_141":1983},"6dbb3fee6f18",[],"“We're early in that phase [where people are trying to find] pragmatic use cases. The issue isn't so much the tools themselves. What's interesting to me is the layer above them, which I wrote about in ",{"_20":1985,"_90":273,"_274":1986,"_141":1988},"e44831398a0a",[1987],"ba5da2cbf968","my blog on orchestration",{"_20":1990,"_90":273,"_274":1991,"_141":1992},"3c012b7e05ac",[],". To me, orchestration is the cornerstone, because there's nothing actually orchestrating ",{"_20":1994,"_90":273,"_274":1995,"_141":1996},"c493d94c2769",[427],"the tools",{"_20":1998,"_90":273,"_274":1999,"_141":1575},"0ddedf4c18ed",[],[2001],{"_20":1987,"_90":30,"_383":2002},"https://mike-hostetler.com/blog/orchestrating-intelligence-why-every-company-will-have-a-chief-agent-officer-y4EQpjr9",{"_20":2004,"_90":268,"_269":2005,"_277":2010,"_279":280},"ffdaf5b669b5",[2006],{"_20":2007,"_90":273,"_274":2008,"_141":2009},"d9fbf1dd4f20",[],"“I think that corporations are set up in silos. Sales isn't talking to marketing, who isn't talking to ops. Ops isn't talking to product. So, the pragmatic things that we need are places to deploy AI experiments, because the thing we've emphasized internally isn't so much AI as an end state, but rather, AI as iteration.”",[],{"_20":2012,"_90":268,"_269":2013,"_277":2035,"_279":280},"86f97ec55b10",[2014,2018,2023,2027,2031],{"_20":2015,"_90":273,"_274":2016,"_141":2017},"9aad627e9643",[],"The creator recounts a story of a team he works with using Claude Code to build a dashboard. In a completely unintended consequence, Claude Code used the Google Workspace connect to deploy the dashboard to Google Sheets via ",{"_20":2019,"_90":273,"_274":2020,"_141":2022},"865280795f71",[2021],"2ed51292aa7f","Apps Script",{"_20":2024,"_90":273,"_274":2025,"_141":2026},"4e0143f6f2a2",[]," to create a public URL via, of all things, a Google Sheets backdoor. “I burst out laughing. There's an entire product ",{"_20":2028,"_90":273,"_274":2029,"_141":2030},"25776a76f3df",[427],"right there,",{"_20":2032,"_90":273,"_274":2033,"_141":2034},"8a472903f3c6",[]," in that space between a non-technical user and a model’s instincts to propose unexpected solutions.”",[2036],{"_20":2021,"_90":30,"_383":2037},"https://developers.google.com/apps-script/overview",{"_20":2039,"_90":268,"_269":2040,"_277":2045,"_279":280},"1afc27d42096",[2041],{"_20":2042,"_90":273,"_274":2043,"_141":2044},"19bdb5bfad0f",[],"Hostetler also points out a strong business opportunity in governance. “During my tour of duty in corporate, I spent two years as a VP of enterprise technology. I managed all the IT and compliance stuff for a publicly-traded company.” The creator notes that “AI governance” could easily go beyond basic compliance frameworks like SOC 2.",[],{"_20":2047,"_90":268,"_269":2048,"_277":2053,"_279":280},"8fe6ad610c6c",[2049],{"_20":2050,"_90":273,"_274":2051,"_141":2052},"9e450b53590e",[],"“Every LLM call in your organization will eventually be proxied and logged. But nobody's doing this at the moment. Think about just capturing it as one problem. Analyzing and fingerprinting.” The creator predicts that sooner than we think, organizations may need to be “AI compliant” with whatever new version of the SOC2 standard that arises.",[],{"_20":2055,"_90":268,"_269":2056,"_277":2061,"_279":280},"ef3eab6b09a3",[2057],{"_20":2058,"_90":273,"_274":2059,"_141":2060},"856e44ea47e3",[],"“Another [enterprise use case] I’d look at is insurance. Cybersecurity insurance with AI, mark my words, in the next two years, that will be a ‘thing.’ And this won’t just be your CrowdStrike-style, on-device stuff. It's all the things that get exfiltrated from what you build. Nobody's talking about that. The strategy there is very immature. Admittedly, this isn’t a very sexy space, but I think there's a lot of money to be made there.”",[],{"_20":2063,"_90":268,"_269":2064,"_277":2069,"_279":355},"8c5c46a705f3",[2065],{"_20":2066,"_90":273,"_274":2067,"_141":2068},"e55bcf804130",[],"The Future of Elixir and Durable Systems",[],{"_20":2071,"_90":268,"_269":2072,"_277":2077,"_279":280},"44f07555baa8",[2073],{"_20":2074,"_90":273,"_274":2075,"_141":2076},"83aa3f705283",[],"The creator is realistic about how his project and the greater Elixir ecosystem figure into the future of software development. “A non-Elixir shop is going to have a hard time adopting Elixir. So I can see Jido becoming an agentic sidecar that eventually makes it easy for TypeScript devs to spin up an agent with Elixir-level durability.”",[],{"_20":2079,"_90":268,"_269":2080,"_277":2094,"_279":280},"dbad934515e7",[2081,2085,2090],{"_20":2082,"_90":273,"_274":2083,"_141":2084},"ddf9d15e994c",[],"“This might be for a market segment that could be ‘one step below’ the ",{"_20":2086,"_90":273,"_274":2087,"_141":2089},"7929d2ffed1a",[2088],"f82cbe3cdbf8","Temporals",{"_20":2091,"_90":273,"_274":2092,"_141":2093},"82c9fc0d6074",[]," of the world. To clarify, I’ve used Temporal before, and it’s fantastic, though expensive. But thinking pragmatically, there are a lot more TypeScript devs in the world. Python will be its own thing. TypeScript devs are going to need an SDK to easily call Jido agents, and then Jido agents will operate async, and it'll just be self-contained with a dashboard to spin it up.”",[2095],{"_20":2088,"_90":30,"_383":2096},"https://temporal.io/",{"_20":2098,"_90":268,"_269":2099,"_277":2113,"_279":280},"b3f069861ce0",[2100,2104,2109],{"_20":2101,"_90":273,"_274":2102,"_141":2103},"7dc862f60a3b",[],"The creator acknowledges that popularly-used languages and frameworks like TypeScript and ",{"_20":2105,"_90":273,"_274":2106,"_141":2108},"a5ab9089e32a",[2107],"cc95782eb602","Node.js",{"_20":2110,"_90":273,"_274":2111,"_141":2112},"05d94911aeac",[]," are excellent for what they are, and that they solve specific problems. “But you need to be able to spin things up inexpensively that companies built on TypeScript can solve either by running in Docker via their infrastructure, or run out of a cloud where they can spin up platforms of agents, with one agent per customer (or dozens of agents per customer).”",[2114],{"_20":2107,"_90":30,"_383":2115},"http://node.js",{"_20":2117,"_90":268,"_269":2118,"_277":2123,"_279":280},"1c459bacc235",[2119],{"_20":2120,"_90":273,"_274":2121,"_141":2122},"4773952f0d8b",[],"“And to be able to do that practically is just going to be overwhelmingly expensive, even with Cloud costs. 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Customer Success in the Age of AI\n
- The Founder's Paradox
- Defining the Golden Path
- Building the Stack
- An Action Plan and the Maturity Model
\n

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Tailscale redefines enterprise network security away from a traditional VPN model, to one in which all individual point-to-point communications are independently authenticated and secured regardless of device location.\n",[],"altLogo",{"_90":91,"_2195":2196,"_92":2197,"_2199":2200,"_2201":2196},"alt","Logo of Tailscale",{"_94":2198,"_90":96},"image-30e7733ab194818ba734868af198b266a22888a7-296x53-svg","attribution","","caption","zero config VPN for building secure 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CX",{"_90":304,"_2168":2277},"travis-perkins","teamMember","startDate","2026-05-15T01:00:00.000Z",[2282,2291],{"_239":2283,"_241":2284,"_243":2285,"_90":2286,"_253":2283,"_13":2287,"_2215":2288,"_304":2289},"2023-07-17T23:23:49Z","eec559a9-10e7-4405-82e4-e0736495ec36","TfMkf5gVJ7UWv1vMi5Qxor","tag","Artificial intelligence, including AI-powered coding assistants built on large language models.","AI",{"_90":304,"_2168":2290},"ai",{"_239":2292,"_241":2293,"_243":2294,"_90":2286,"_253":2295,"_13":2200,"_2215":2296,"_304":2297},"2021-09-21T20:59:30Z","tag-4929","TfMkf5gVJ7UWv1vMi5R04L","2022-09-15T14:18:16Z","Customer Success",{"_90":304,"_2168":2298},"customer-success","Customer Success in the Age of AI","transcript",[2302,2336,2367,2398,2429,2460,2481,2512,2543,2584,2605,2613,2644,2665,2696,2737,2778,2799,2830,2851,2862,2893,2934,2965,2996,3017,3038,3079,3120,3151,3172,3180,3221,3262,3303,3334,3375,3406,3447,3478,3509,3560,3601,3632,3663,3704,3715,3746,3777,3808,3816,3857,3878,3919,3970,3991,4032,4063,4114,4145,4176,4187,4218,4259,4280,4331,4382,4390,4431,4482,4503,4534,4575,4606,4647,4658,4699,4750,4781,4812,4843],{"_20":2303,"_90":268,"_269":2304,"_277":2327,"_279":280},"4a2d5c4fd812",[2305,2310,2314,2319,2322],{"_20":2306,"_90":273,"_274":2307,"_141":2309},"8f4533caa2c1",[2308],"7f1dfcf","Thank you so much, and thank you all for being here.",{"_20":2311,"_90":273,"_274":2312,"_141":2313},"fd473a720995",[]," ",{"_20":2315,"_90":273,"_274":2316,"_141":2318},"f0135d0d36bd",[2317],"f6c9d5b","Today we're going to talk about customer success in the age of AI and really what that means, and realistically more so about",{"_20":2320,"_90":273,"_274":2321,"_141":2313},"af6d6b367b7d",[],{"_20":2323,"_90":273,"_274":2324,"_141":2326},"7447c296e51b",[2325],"d600769","how do you optimize the things that need to be optimized, but not in a way that's detrimental to the signals that you need to keep and get from your customers.",[2328,2332,2334],{"_20":2308,"_90":2329,"_2330":2331},"timestamp","time","00:00:02.960",{"_20":2317,"_90":2329,"_2330":2333},"00:00:05.040",{"_20":2325,"_90":2329,"_2330":2335},"00:00:12.559",{"_20":2337,"_90":268,"_269":2338,"_277":2360,"_279":280},"736475fa528f",[2339,2344,2347,2352,2355],{"_20":2340,"_90":273,"_274":2341,"_141":2343},"f8bf9308cf39",[2342],"afd9a0b","So we'll do a brief intro on myself as well as Tailscale.",{"_20":2345,"_90":273,"_274":2346,"_141":2313},"e71786a8d907",[],{"_20":2348,"_90":273,"_274":2349,"_141":2351},"11a153678625",[2350],"a8cce76","I tried to make my own deck and our design people",{"_20":2353,"_90":273,"_274":2354,"_141":2313},"ea954d220b89",[],{"_20":2356,"_90":273,"_274":2357,"_141":2359},"fd5e2f375d0a",[2358],"92c6406","almost threw up, and so we're gonna use the Tailscale deck.",[2361,2363,2365],{"_20":2342,"_90":2329,"_2330":2362},"00:00:20.780",{"_20":2350,"_90":2329,"_2330":2364},"00:00:24.780",{"_20":2358,"_90":2329,"_2330":2366},"00:00:28.860",{"_20":2368,"_90":268,"_269":2369,"_277":2391,"_279":280},"34a79e822fcd",[2370,2375,2378,2383,2386],{"_20":2371,"_90":273,"_274":2372,"_141":2374},"b4fe7142871e",[2373],"3cb4319","A little background on myself and Tailscale, the founder's paradox again between speed as well as fidelity and how do you balance the two.",{"_20":2376,"_90":273,"_274":2377,"_141":2313},"1613e33b883d",[],{"_20":2379,"_90":273,"_274":2380,"_141":2382},"446b75bcc02c",[2381],"43e85e6","We'll talk a little about the stack as well, not only how we're using AI today and what our stack looks like at Tailscale, but even for early stage founders, just some things that you can do to bootstrap",{"_20":2384,"_90":273,"_274":2385,"_141":2313},"334644752085",[],{"_20":2387,"_90":273,"_274":2388,"_141":2390},"8234b97b23be",[2389],"bed0c35","your stack as well and even build a lightweight CSP or customer success platform.",[2392,2394,2396],{"_20":2373,"_90":2329,"_2330":2393},"00:00:32.300",{"_20":2381,"_90":2329,"_2330":2395},"00:00:40.300",{"_20":2389,"_90":2329,"_2330":2397},"00:00:51.260",{"_20":2399,"_90":268,"_269":2400,"_277":2422,"_279":280},"1107f058f2ee",[2401,2406,2409,2414,2417],{"_20":2402,"_90":273,"_274":2403,"_141":2405},"df1a0f84b8b6",[2404],"c405257","And then an action plan, right?",{"_20":2407,"_90":273,"_274":2408,"_141":2313},"97e41ec10f76",[],{"_20":2410,"_90":273,"_274":2411,"_141":2413},"0c33a33400cb",[2412],"45c515a","And so that is more tailored for again the earlier stage founders in the room, but would love to talk to those that are a little bit later stage",{"_20":2415,"_90":273,"_274":2416,"_141":2313},"b363d9f64f81",[],{"_20":2418,"_90":273,"_274":2419,"_141":2421},"a02310181f38",[2420],"3df0fa6","and dig in to what some of those details are around what you can do in the next ninety days to really up your customer success game.",[2423,2425,2427],{"_20":2404,"_90":2329,"_2330":2424},"00:00:56.300",{"_20":2412,"_90":2329,"_2330":2426},"00:00:57.579",{"_20":2420,"_90":2329,"_2330":2428},"00:01:04.160",{"_20":2430,"_90":268,"_269":2431,"_277":2453,"_279":280},"67d9e027c87c",[2432,2437,2440,2445,2448],{"_20":2433,"_90":273,"_274":2434,"_141":2436},"d731c32b5e81",[2435],"e2aa00b","So I did look like that at one point.",{"_20":2438,"_90":273,"_274":2439,"_141":2313},"6cc97cae98ac",[],{"_20":2441,"_90":273,"_274":2442,"_141":2444},"90795414d9c4",[2443],"bef4ee5","Still the same hair, but yeah, that's what I can look like, but Bay Area native.",{"_20":2446,"_90":273,"_274":2447,"_141":2313},"f30c824f35ca",[],{"_20":2449,"_90":273,"_274":2450,"_141":2452},"5e17f0ade0f1",[2451],"2a35982","And so I've been in and around tech for about 20 years.",[2454,2456,2458],{"_20":2435,"_90":2329,"_2330":2455},"00:01:12.020",{"_20":2443,"_90":2329,"_2330":2457},"00:01:14.420",{"_20":2451,"_90":2329,"_2330":2459},"00:01:20.340",{"_20":2461,"_90":268,"_269":2462,"_277":2476,"_279":280},"5f315847ff06",[2463,2468,2471],{"_20":2464,"_90":273,"_274":2465,"_141":2467},"9ad1283bc668",[2466],"12c968f","I helped found the customer success team at Cloudflare as well as Pulumi.",{"_20":2469,"_90":273,"_274":2470,"_141":2313},"262cc87b1fd8",[],{"_20":2472,"_90":273,"_274":2473,"_141":2475},"42d63c553c1f",[2474],"1b11eb3","I was a founder myself, so long story short, startups are hard.",[2477,2479],{"_20":2466,"_90":2329,"_2330":2478},"00:01:23.700",{"_20":2474,"_90":2329,"_2330":2480},"00:01:30.100",{"_20":2482,"_90":268,"_269":2483,"_277":2505,"_279":280},"4fea91faa8db",[2484,2489,2492,2497,2500],{"_20":2485,"_90":273,"_274":2486,"_141":2488},"89bf6b11848e",[2487],"f972f9a","And now I'm currently at Tailscale where I run CX.",{"_20":2490,"_90":273,"_274":2491,"_141":2313},"f8ec505e76ff",[],{"_20":2493,"_90":273,"_274":2494,"_141":2496},"54074c43ce26",[2495],"d70cf5d","And for us at Tailscale, CX is support as well as customer success.",{"_20":2498,"_90":273,"_274":2499,"_141":2313},"2834d4821c91",[],{"_20":2501,"_90":273,"_274":2502,"_141":2504},"a028763b62f9",[2503],"c45924a","So a lot of the post-sales technical customer-facing teams.",[2506,2508,2510],{"_20":2487,"_90":2329,"_2330":2507},"00:01:35.120",{"_20":2495,"_90":2329,"_2330":2509},"00:01:38.160",{"_20":2503,"_90":2329,"_2330":2511},"00:01:42.400",{"_20":2513,"_90":268,"_269":2514,"_277":2536,"_279":280},"0aa95a40b735",[2515,2520,2523,2528,2531],{"_20":2516,"_90":273,"_274":2517,"_141":2519},"1e02529aa058",[2518],"314bd38","So Tailscale for those that don't know, and as I was chatting with some of you all, you guys are already using it, and so this will probably bore you a little bit maybe for the folks that are on the screen.",{"_20":2521,"_90":273,"_274":2522,"_141":2313},"2934cc104fcb",[],{"_20":2524,"_90":273,"_274":2525,"_141":2527},"b4143ed8a442",[2526],"16426b1","Tailscale is a secure connectivity platform, right?",{"_20":2529,"_90":273,"_274":2530,"_141":2313},"f376ca50ccb0",[],{"_20":2532,"_90":273,"_274":2533,"_141":2535},"518373528dcd",[2534],"dd6bbc6","And there's a whole bunch of use cases and applications that you can leverage on top of that platform.",[2537,2539,2541],{"_20":2518,"_90":2329,"_2330":2538},"00:01:46.940",{"_20":2526,"_90":2329,"_2330":2540},"00:01:55.840",{"_20":2534,"_90":2329,"_2330":2542},"00:01:59.520",{"_20":2544,"_90":268,"_269":2545,"_277":2575,"_279":280},"fa250242659e",[2546,2551,2554,2559,2562,2567,2570],{"_20":2547,"_90":273,"_274":2548,"_141":2550},"1689c6e2768b",[2549],"d1a51c0","The one you see front and center is a product that we launched recently called Aperture, which I'll actually spend a little bit of time on and how we are actually using it internally, not only across our company, but also specifically within the CX team.",{"_20":2552,"_90":273,"_274":2553,"_141":2313},"3cfcbf56de13",[],{"_20":2555,"_90":273,"_274":2556,"_141":2558},"8014c88da81e",[2557],"b6ca53a","But a lot of folks have thought about us through the lens of a home lab, right?",{"_20":2560,"_90":273,"_274":2561,"_141":2313},"7c76b5a5a94d",[],{"_20":2563,"_90":273,"_274":2564,"_141":2566},"f0dc1ca1ae94",[2565],"ee4dcd6","So how do I get access to my stack at home?",{"_20":2568,"_90":273,"_274":2569,"_141":2313},"673bd0a07f6d",[],{"_20":2571,"_90":273,"_274":2572,"_141":2574},"d9839c85fc19",[2573],"b7a1b62","Or if I'm a business, how do I give my developers access to the infrastructure tooling, et cetera, they need?",[2576,2578,2580,2582],{"_20":2549,"_90":2329,"_2330":2577},"00:02:04.400",{"_20":2557,"_90":2329,"_2330":2579},"00:02:16.340",{"_20":2565,"_90":2329,"_2330":2581},"00:02:19.220",{"_20":2573,"_90":2329,"_2330":2583},"00:02:22.260",{"_20":2585,"_90":268,"_269":2586,"_277":2600,"_279":280},"40ec572a17fe",[2587,2592,2595],{"_20":2588,"_90":273,"_274":2589,"_141":2591},"4068e4210575",[2590],"88c5e52","It can all be through Tailscale.",{"_20":2593,"_90":273,"_274":2594,"_141":2313},"2a76c6db4988",[],{"_20":2596,"_90":273,"_274":2597,"_141":2599},"ce4eb82ffcb4",[2598],"9f773ae","And so just a little frame up there.",[2601,2603],{"_20":2590,"_90":2329,"_2330":2602},"00:02:28.160",{"_20":2598,"_90":2329,"_2330":2604},"00:02:30.720",{"_20":2606,"_90":268,"_269":2607,"_277":2612,"_279":355},"9616bb3c499e",[2608],{"_20":2609,"_90":273,"_274":2610,"_141":2611},"4ae64bba060d",[],"The Founder's Paradox",[],{"_20":2614,"_90":268,"_269":2615,"_277":2637,"_279":280},"b4cf83f18a4f",[2616,2621,2624,2629,2632],{"_20":2617,"_90":273,"_274":2618,"_141":2620},"4bd545a70596",[2619],"01ef260","So the founder's paradox, let's talk about this a little bit.",{"_20":2622,"_90":273,"_274":2623,"_141":2313},"acb347e2de3f",[],{"_20":2625,"_90":273,"_274":2626,"_141":2628},"37e83bbf6a52",[2627],"9f72fc1","In the age of AI, it's optimize, optimize, optimize, right?",{"_20":2630,"_90":273,"_274":2631,"_141":2313},"5f3e5dfa9675",[],{"_20":2633,"_90":273,"_274":2634,"_141":2636},"1d364c77e588",[2635],"17c38bc","So everything that can be optimized, let's do it.",[2638,2640,2642],{"_20":2619,"_90":2329,"_2330":2639},"00:02:33.680",{"_20":2627,"_90":2329,"_2330":2641},"00:02:37.220",{"_20":2635,"_90":2329,"_2330":2643},"00:02:41.540",{"_20":2645,"_90":268,"_269":2646,"_277":2660,"_279":280},"c144456be960",[2647,2652,2655],{"_20":2648,"_90":273,"_274":2649,"_141":2651},"32dcb338a43c",[2650],"7a1f361","Let's add an agent for this.",{"_20":2653,"_90":273,"_274":2654,"_141":2313},"a26e27734fa4",[],{"_20":2656,"_90":273,"_274":2657,"_141":2659},"99a0a65fe378",[2658],"c66ccb4","Let's build a tool for that, let's vibecode that.",[2661,2663],{"_20":2650,"_90":2329,"_2330":2662},"00:02:43.700",{"_20":2658,"_90":2329,"_2330":2664},"00:02:45.060",{"_20":2666,"_90":268,"_269":2667,"_277":2689,"_279":280},"7959451f133d",[2668,2673,2676,2681,2684],{"_20":2669,"_90":273,"_274":2670,"_141":2672},"889f6d8046c0",[2671],"61028a7","The problem is you lose a lot of information, you lose a lot of signal.",{"_20":2674,"_90":273,"_274":2675,"_141":2313},"ded77f705642",[],{"_20":2677,"_90":273,"_274":2678,"_141":2680},"79b5f229a161",[2679],"bf1b8eb","And that's the piece that is super critical to the not only survival of your business, but also how you engage with your customers.",{"_20":2682,"_90":273,"_274":2683,"_141":2313},"8ddb432f6df7",[],{"_20":2685,"_90":273,"_274":2686,"_141":2688},"4c379476f787",[2687],"164ebf4","It almost becomes your strategic moat.",[2690,2692,2694],{"_20":2671,"_90":2329,"_2330":2691},"00:02:48.120",{"_20":2679,"_90":2329,"_2330":2693},"00:02:52.520",{"_20":2687,"_90":2329,"_2330":2695},"00:02:59.180",{"_20":2697,"_90":268,"_269":2698,"_277":2728,"_279":280},"27b2e84d0c81",[2699,2704,2707,2712,2715,2720,2723],{"_20":2700,"_90":273,"_274":2701,"_141":2703},"410a46a6c170",[2702],"d4c9dd9","So the argument here isn't to just not optimize anything and throw humans at the problem.",{"_20":2705,"_90":273,"_274":2706,"_141":2313},"7c23781ff097",[],{"_20":2708,"_90":273,"_274":2709,"_141":2711},"b47ba3e0dcb4",[2710],"ba4d695","Absolutely not.",{"_20":2713,"_90":273,"_274":2714,"_141":2313},"1892340c2832",[],{"_20":2716,"_90":273,"_274":2717,"_141":2719},"d9d4b73f04c5",[2718],"f7c2f9a","The idea here is to optimize the things that are repetitive tasks",{"_20":2721,"_90":273,"_274":2722,"_141":2313},"283f35456380",[],{"_20":2724,"_90":273,"_274":2725,"_141":2727},"79b071ca7e75",[2726],"b66c30d","that really don't add a ton of value to your day, nor do they actually add a lot of value to your customers as well.",[2729,2731,2733,2735],{"_20":2702,"_90":2329,"_2330":2730},"00:03:01.660",{"_20":2710,"_90":2329,"_2330":2732},"00:03:07.340",{"_20":2718,"_90":2329,"_2330":2734},"00:03:08.460",{"_20":2726,"_90":2329,"_2330":2736},"00:03:12.340",{"_20":2738,"_90":268,"_269":2739,"_277":2769,"_279":280},"f2eed932879c",[2740,2745,2748,2753,2756,2761,2764],{"_20":2741,"_90":273,"_274":2742,"_141":2744},"7f7d7c2d0fc6",[2743],"f160cbd","So there's always this index of:",{"_20":2746,"_90":273,"_274":2747,"_141":2313},"670344c0b1ab",[],{"_20":2749,"_90":273,"_274":2750,"_141":2752},"4d8ba4870d0b",[2751],"b6c68c2","how do I move fast?",{"_20":2754,"_90":273,"_274":2755,"_141":2313},"af209bc9fa56",[],{"_20":2757,"_90":273,"_274":2758,"_141":2760},"776ce300e307",[2759],"f0d631f","How do I help my customers more quickly?",{"_20":2762,"_90":273,"_274":2763,"_141":2313},"130307e4252f",[],{"_20":2765,"_90":273,"_274":2766,"_141":2768},"402bef484ae5",[2767],"3ec37a6","But you can't do it at the detriment of the signals that you're getting.",[2770,2772,2774,2776],{"_20":2743,"_90":2329,"_2330":2771},"00:03:18.260",{"_20":2751,"_90":2329,"_2330":2773},"00:03:19.960",{"_20":2759,"_90":2329,"_2330":2775},"00:03:20.920",{"_20":2767,"_90":2329,"_2330":2777},"00:03:22.920",{"_20":2779,"_90":268,"_269":2780,"_277":2794,"_279":280},"e98fc28c6b5f",[2781,2786,2789],{"_20":2782,"_90":273,"_274":2783,"_141":2785},"c6d6663a6644",[2784],"894bef8","So you really need to be using AI as sort of a high-pass filter.",{"_20":2787,"_90":273,"_274":2788,"_141":2313},"c34db3d68e85",[],{"_20":2790,"_90":273,"_274":2791,"_141":2793},"981d847bec38",[2792],"79ee0f7","And so you're stripping away a lot of that noise and getting to the meat of it.",[2795,2797],{"_20":2784,"_90":2329,"_2330":2796},"00:03:25.960",{"_20":2792,"_90":2329,"_2330":2798},"00:03:29.799",{"_20":2800,"_90":268,"_269":2801,"_277":2823,"_279":280},"a7b63c9cf68f",[2802,2807,2810,2815,2818],{"_20":2803,"_90":273,"_274":2804,"_141":2806},"f7e44e1eaa84",[2805],"4554b0b","And so that meat can be, what is influencing my product roadmap?",{"_20":2808,"_90":273,"_274":2809,"_141":2313},"b6b5912311ae",[],{"_20":2811,"_90":273,"_274":2812,"_141":2814},"2efd8471a8c7",[2813],"d034f8d","It can be, how do I help customers stay on the golden path?",{"_20":2816,"_90":273,"_274":2817,"_141":2313},"ed846e24e0df",[],{"_20":2819,"_90":273,"_274":2820,"_141":2822},"5de30c7ee4ae",[2821],"8624029","How do I make sure that they're constantly not only driving the outcomes that they want, but then also sharing that information back with me?",[2824,2826,2828],{"_20":2805,"_90":2329,"_2330":2825},"00:03:33.959",{"_20":2813,"_90":2329,"_2330":2827},"00:03:38.360",{"_20":2821,"_90":2329,"_2330":2829},"00:03:42.959",{"_20":2831,"_90":268,"_269":2832,"_277":2846,"_279":280},"6647eecab56a",[2833,2838,2841],{"_20":2834,"_90":273,"_274":2835,"_141":2837},"254873b81df9",[2836],"2c3f6a1","So that's a thing that I can then take on and then understand.",{"_20":2839,"_90":273,"_274":2840,"_141":2313},"b55f631cd60a",[],{"_20":2842,"_90":273,"_274":2843,"_141":2845},"a36d6539be4e",[2844],"5230060","And bringing in all of this context into how I'm actually building the product versus, well, I have this vision and that's the path I'm going to stick on and that's it.",[2847,2849],{"_20":2836,"_90":2329,"_2330":2848},"00:03:49.100",{"_20":2844,"_90":2329,"_2330":2850},"00:03:52.540",{"_20":2852,"_90":268,"_269":2853,"_277":2859,"_279":1717},"02457a9748c4",[2854],{"_20":2855,"_90":273,"_274":2856,"_141":2858},"6d1c646f4d60",[2857],"12d4cbe","In an era where the technical AI assistance is a commodity, it's really trust and human engagement are the things that become moats and the things that you cannot commoditize.",[2860],{"_20":2857,"_90":2329,"_2330":2861},"00:04:01.560",{"_20":2863,"_90":268,"_269":2864,"_277":2886,"_279":280},"a08aece50cd1",[2865,2870,2873,2878,2881],{"_20":2866,"_90":273,"_274":2867,"_141":2869},"753e8c784d87",[2868],"f2270e9","I think that's",{"_20":2871,"_90":273,"_274":2872,"_141":2313},"ae850f84c530",[],{"_20":2874,"_90":273,"_274":2875,"_141":2877},"f03353bea49e",[2876],"c538db3","super critical for especially earlier stage founders where again you only have so much time. I get it, there's a couple of you guys, you're hacking away, you're trying to build this product, you're trying to get it into more hands.",{"_20":2879,"_90":273,"_274":2880,"_141":2313},"a9999e8d6cd8",[],{"_20":2882,"_90":273,"_274":2883,"_141":2885},"79cac0517442",[2884],"7c7cb15","But it can't be at the cost of what actually matters, which is that human interaction.",[2887,2889,2891],{"_20":2868,"_90":2329,"_2330":2888},"00:04:13.720",{"_20":2876,"_90":2329,"_2330":2890},"00:04:14.599",{"_20":2884,"_90":2329,"_2330":2892},"00:04:25.260",{"_20":2894,"_90":268,"_269":2895,"_277":2925,"_279":280},"eb38558b2292",[2896,2901,2904,2909,2912,2917,2920],{"_20":2897,"_90":273,"_274":2898,"_141":2900},"65c5696a8205",[2899],"da416f2","We see it day and day at Tailscale.",{"_20":2902,"_90":273,"_274":2903,"_141":2313},"7a9ab6eddfe0",[],{"_20":2905,"_90":273,"_274":2906,"_141":2908},"3bc27ed3cbf1",[2907],"16ae085","So I'll get into this a little bit about our stack that we use.",{"_20":2910,"_90":273,"_274":2911,"_141":2313},"7a1d32a344dc",[],{"_20":2913,"_90":273,"_274":2914,"_141":2916},"39d7e2de8889",[2915],"2d5e04a","But one of the things that's important for us",{"_20":2918,"_90":273,"_274":2919,"_141":2313},"a71395645b9c",[],{"_20":2921,"_90":273,"_274":2922,"_141":2924},"86d4cbcfc414",[2923],"3ea6165","is to have high quality human-based support and interactions for all of our users.",[2926,2928,2930,2932],{"_20":2899,"_90":2329,"_2330":2927},"00:04:30.220",{"_20":2907,"_90":2329,"_2330":2929},"00:04:32.620",{"_20":2915,"_90":2329,"_2330":2931},"00:04:35.980",{"_20":2923,"_90":2329,"_2330":2933},"00:04:38.440",{"_20":2935,"_90":268,"_269":2936,"_277":2958,"_279":280},"d76b0ed70f58",[2937,2942,2945,2950,2953],{"_20":2938,"_90":273,"_274":2939,"_141":2941},"d8ac78ac6f56",[2940],"63f292e","Whether you're spending zero dollars with us or hundreds of thousands of dollars with us, we want to make sure that there's humans at the end of the day that can engage with you.",{"_20":2943,"_90":273,"_274":2944,"_141":2313},"6a7cecf92b21",[],{"_20":2946,"_90":273,"_274":2947,"_141":2949},"b20ea5c86219",[2948],"228cde1","But at the same time we make sure that there is still an element of expediency.",{"_20":2951,"_90":273,"_274":2952,"_141":2313},"1eda117dd50d",[],{"_20":2954,"_90":273,"_274":2955,"_141":2957},"6150299d0dd9",[2956],"375289e","And sometimes that comes through the lens of AI as an example, and we'll talk about that in a moment.",[2959,2961,2963],{"_20":2940,"_90":2329,"_2330":2960},"00:04:43.000",{"_20":2948,"_90":2329,"_2330":2962},"00:04:50.539",{"_20":2956,"_90":2329,"_2330":2964},"00:04:55.819",{"_20":2966,"_90":268,"_269":2967,"_277":2989,"_279":280},"a3d413088f0e",[2968,2973,2976,2981,2984],{"_20":2969,"_90":273,"_274":2970,"_141":2972},"224ed8f0d96e",[2971],"10bf857","But this almost becomes like your competitive moat.",{"_20":2974,"_90":273,"_274":2975,"_141":2313},"146b36056178",[],{"_20":2977,"_90":273,"_274":2978,"_141":2980},"e4c691a826c9",[2979],"982916e","Maybe less so now.",{"_20":2982,"_90":273,"_274":2983,"_141":2313},"052885e6e1bb",[],{"_20":2985,"_90":273,"_274":2986,"_141":2988},"f393c191cb99",[2987],"64ffcf2","But the argument earlier on in the AI revolution was like, oh I can just vibecode your product.",[2990,2992,2994],{"_20":2971,"_90":2329,"_2330":2991},"00:05:00.940",{"_20":2979,"_90":2329,"_2330":2993},"00:05:04.480",{"_20":2987,"_90":2329,"_2330":2995},"00:05:05.680",{"_20":2997,"_90":268,"_269":2998,"_277":3012,"_279":280},"da27b41a9a1b",[2999,3004,3007],{"_20":3000,"_90":273,"_274":3001,"_141":3003},"b92b8dbdedec",[3002],"77dbd93","Why does it matter?",{"_20":3005,"_90":273,"_274":3006,"_141":2313},"a0ec9449bf01",[],{"_20":3008,"_90":273,"_274":3009,"_141":3011},"5e9d9e3022f4",[3010],"0c4f9fd","I don't need this offering that you have.",[3013,3015],{"_20":3002,"_90":2329,"_2330":3014},"00:05:10.240",{"_20":3010,"_90":2329,"_2330":3016},"00:05:11.040",{"_20":3018,"_90":268,"_269":3019,"_277":3033,"_279":280},"6d15d6a0aeda",[3020,3025,3028],{"_20":3021,"_90":273,"_274":3022,"_141":3024},"44d30ec111d4",[3023],"2ebc491","And so sometimes that human differentiation, that trust element, that human engagement is what differentiates you and your brand and your product.",{"_20":3026,"_90":273,"_274":3027,"_141":2313},"78a89ca3b648",[],{"_20":3029,"_90":273,"_274":3030,"_141":3032},"3e1045e6dc77",[3031],"b7dcc2d","And so customer success is really about then maintaining that fidelity.",[3034,3036],{"_20":3023,"_90":2329,"_2330":3035},"00:05:13.240",{"_20":3031,"_90":2329,"_2330":3037},"00:05:22.080",{"_20":3039,"_90":268,"_269":3040,"_277":3070,"_279":280},"b47d1949ebb8",[3041,3046,3049,3054,3057,3062,3065],{"_20":3042,"_90":273,"_274":3043,"_141":3045},"46b063f98026",[3044],"a2837d9","So that gap, if you will, between founder taste, so the things that you know your product in and out.",{"_20":3047,"_90":273,"_274":3048,"_141":2313},"786197a17441",[],{"_20":3050,"_90":273,"_274":3051,"_141":3053},"e5ed35e8bed4",[3052],"dad3de8","You're the one that has ultimately built it.",{"_20":3055,"_90":273,"_274":3056,"_141":2313},"6601179339d2",[],{"_20":3058,"_90":273,"_274":3059,"_141":3061},"ee0bb856a861",[3060],"8522035","And so you're trying to also then extend yourself out in a way that keeps that same sort of vibe.",{"_20":3063,"_90":273,"_274":3064,"_141":2313},"917fcc6cddf5",[],{"_20":3066,"_90":273,"_274":3067,"_141":3069},"1a8422367c0c",[3068],"e242dc6","The things that make you you.",[3071,3073,3075,3077],{"_20":3044,"_90":2329,"_2330":3072},"00:05:26.400",{"_20":3052,"_90":2329,"_2330":3074},"00:05:32.480",{"_20":3060,"_90":2329,"_2330":3076},"00:05:34.960",{"_20":3068,"_90":2329,"_2330":3078},"00:05:41.120",{"_20":3080,"_90":268,"_269":3081,"_277":3111,"_279":280},"3881c86d5ed2",[3082,3087,3090,3095,3098,3103,3106],{"_20":3083,"_90":273,"_274":3084,"_141":3086},"be194e092707",[3085],"27bdb70","But as you continue to scale your team,",{"_20":3088,"_90":273,"_274":3089,"_141":2313},"98d615ca9788",[],{"_20":3091,"_90":273,"_274":3092,"_141":3094},"cf3de91fd9e8",[3093],"07c193f","you have to get further away from where all of that's happening.",{"_20":3096,"_90":273,"_274":3097,"_141":2313},"77f710487afa",[],{"_20":3099,"_90":273,"_274":3100,"_141":3102},"3c5a371709a7",[3101],"3402c2c","And I've seen this time and time again where founders think that they can just continue to stay involved and engaged in that way.",{"_20":3104,"_90":273,"_274":3105,"_141":2313},"b208a730d2f5",[],{"_20":3107,"_90":273,"_274":3108,"_141":3110},"c3e13da23d57",[3109],"e36a706","And that's just not the case.",[3112,3114,3116,3118],{"_20":3085,"_90":2329,"_2330":3113},"00:05:43.120",{"_20":3093,"_90":2329,"_2330":3115},"00:05:45.940",{"_20":3101,"_90":2329,"_2330":3117},"00:05:48.500",{"_20":3109,"_90":2329,"_2330":3119},"00:05:54.100",{"_20":3121,"_90":268,"_269":3122,"_277":3144,"_279":280},"4601b0ef59a9",[3123,3128,3131,3136,3139],{"_20":3124,"_90":273,"_274":3125,"_141":3127},"d21270d0bc3e",[3126],"6b9a70d","It's about then starting to build structure and starting to build a team that can take that on, but represent you and represent your style, your taste",{"_20":3129,"_90":273,"_274":3130,"_141":2313},"2bbbfaa0f6ec",[],{"_20":3132,"_90":273,"_274":3133,"_141":3135},"ac0ee85701c8",[3134],"8e83143","as you continue to grow.",{"_20":3137,"_90":273,"_274":3138,"_141":2313},"7127e96d7b59",[],{"_20":3140,"_90":273,"_274":3141,"_141":3143},"462dde889a60",[3142],"7ab2e85","And that is actually a real picture of my teammates as well when we were in Cancun.",[3145,3147,3149],{"_20":3126,"_90":2329,"_2330":3146},"00:05:55.380",{"_20":3134,"_90":2329,"_2330":3148},"00:06:02.860",{"_20":3142,"_90":2329,"_2330":3150},"00:06:04.780",{"_20":3152,"_90":268,"_269":3153,"_277":3167,"_279":1717},"645d2853bb2e",[3154,3159,3162],{"_20":3155,"_90":273,"_274":3156,"_141":3158},"6b8c8f6eb17e",[3157],"38a455d","Every one of those support interactions, success interactions",{"_20":3160,"_90":273,"_274":3161,"_141":2313},"14bdb786b898",[],{"_20":3163,"_90":273,"_274":3164,"_141":3166},"2dfa7fc1dcaf",[3165],"566cee9","becomes a diagnostic event that you can ultimately then leverage to improve your product, to improve how you engage with your users and with your customers.",[3168,3170],{"_20":3157,"_90":2329,"_2330":3169},"00:06:09.900",{"_20":3165,"_90":2329,"_2330":3171},"00:06:13.980",{"_20":3173,"_90":268,"_269":3174,"_277":3179,"_279":355},"4db3f0b7b539",[3175],{"_20":3176,"_90":273,"_274":3177,"_141":3178},"0c7fb3360212",[],"Defining the Golden Path",[],{"_20":3181,"_90":268,"_269":3182,"_277":3212,"_279":280},"6b06149892a0",[3183,3188,3191,3196,3199,3204,3207],{"_20":3184,"_90":273,"_274":3185,"_141":3187},"30415fbdbe1b",[3186],"8f9a3c7","So one of the things that you need to do early on, and this is what I've done through my entire career, is define what good looks like.",{"_20":3189,"_90":273,"_274":3190,"_141":2313},"68c132242f92",[],{"_20":3192,"_90":273,"_274":3193,"_141":3195},"c802133a6f13",[3194],"b41ae85","So defining what good looks like tends to be things like activation.",{"_20":3197,"_90":273,"_274":3198,"_141":2313},"1107fd203b4e",[],{"_20":3200,"_90":273,"_274":3201,"_141":3203},"0ccaa44ec65a",[3202],"64fe4b0","So what are the top two or three things that a user or customer needs to do in the first 48 hours",{"_20":3205,"_90":273,"_274":3206,"_141":2313},"7419ad8c1342",[],{"_20":3208,"_90":273,"_274":3209,"_141":3211},"8aebf8daa46a",[3210],"1049623","to activate?",[3213,3215,3217,3219],{"_20":3186,"_90":2329,"_2330":3214},"00:06:22.860",{"_20":3194,"_90":2329,"_2330":3216},"00:06:30.660",{"_20":3202,"_90":2329,"_2330":3218},"00:06:35.700",{"_20":3210,"_90":2329,"_2330":3220},"00:06:42.120",{"_20":3222,"_90":268,"_269":3223,"_277":3253,"_279":280},"6445b014968d",[3224,3229,3232,3237,3240,3245,3248],{"_20":3225,"_90":273,"_274":3226,"_141":3228},"4cb640da9846",[3227],"d88a8c5","Is that enabling OIDC?",{"_20":3230,"_90":273,"_274":3231,"_141":2313},"8bcb41cdcf20",[],{"_20":3233,"_90":273,"_274":3234,"_141":3236},"974436ed01bf",[3235],"2bb6ec4","Is that enabling SCIM or SAML, etc.?",{"_20":3238,"_90":273,"_274":3239,"_141":2313},"1b144b8dfb88",[],{"_20":3241,"_90":273,"_274":3242,"_141":3244},"b6aab6c59507",[3243],"e2c3ba7","What are the things that actually need to happen and occur",{"_20":3246,"_90":273,"_274":3247,"_141":2313},"9f3de6f6d6cd",[],{"_20":3249,"_90":273,"_274":3250,"_141":3252},"ece4b742f3de",[3251],"c90ae67","to then be on that proverbial golden path?",[3254,3256,3258,3260],{"_20":3227,"_90":2329,"_2330":3255},"00:06:43.479",{"_20":3235,"_90":2329,"_2330":3257},"00:06:45.400",{"_20":3243,"_90":2329,"_2330":3259},"00:06:48.599",{"_20":3251,"_90":2329,"_2330":3261},"00:06:51.360",{"_20":3263,"_90":268,"_269":3264,"_277":3294,"_279":280},"08cd5b01518c",[3265,3270,3273,3278,3281,3286,3289],{"_20":3266,"_90":273,"_274":3267,"_141":3269},"8c3a3c80368f",[3268],"a6b2aef","Because it's one of those things where I've seen it time and time again, more so at our stage where that first 30 days are super critical.",{"_20":3271,"_90":273,"_274":3272,"_141":2313},"f72bd910c01c",[],{"_20":3274,"_90":273,"_274":3275,"_141":3277},"dd0eca82cc7d",[3276],"e4d7697","If they're not in a good place and they're not seeing value in your product or your solution or your offering,",{"_20":3279,"_90":273,"_274":3280,"_141":2313},"250c297d380b",[],{"_20":3282,"_90":273,"_274":3283,"_141":3285},"c84d5147af3b",[3284],"4d98fec","they're gone.",{"_20":3287,"_90":273,"_274":3288,"_141":2313},"f320c8828c0b",[],{"_20":3290,"_90":273,"_274":3291,"_141":3293},"6a84bd401ef8",[3292],"04baa3d","In a world where there's a million different alternatives, you have to always think about that golden path.",[3295,3297,3299,3301],{"_20":3268,"_90":2329,"_2330":3296},"00:06:54.080",{"_20":3276,"_90":2329,"_2330":3298},"00:07:00.640",{"_20":3284,"_90":2329,"_2330":3300},"00:07:05.160",{"_20":3292,"_90":2329,"_2330":3302},"00:07:06.280",{"_20":3304,"_90":268,"_269":3305,"_277":3327,"_279":280},"1620d947a34d",[3306,3311,3314,3319,3322],{"_20":3307,"_90":273,"_274":3308,"_141":3310},"ec6eb0d756a6",[3309],"7cc8b0b","And then from there, that's where you can get into more of the drift detection.",{"_20":3312,"_90":273,"_274":3313,"_141":2313},"a7641a5ba825",[],{"_20":3315,"_90":273,"_274":3316,"_141":3318},"cc1a88f825ac",[3317],"1743bc1","So there's going to be situations where customers go off of that golden path.",{"_20":3320,"_90":273,"_274":3321,"_141":2313},"265a4bc786ce",[],{"_20":3323,"_90":273,"_274":3324,"_141":3326},"19bd54089b77",[3325],"b3e1fe1","And this goes back to, again, if you're constantly just optimizing, you might miss these signals.",[3328,3330,3332],{"_20":3309,"_90":2329,"_2330":3329},"00:07:12.040",{"_20":3317,"_90":2329,"_2330":3331},"00:07:15.760",{"_20":3325,"_90":2329,"_2330":3333},"00:07:19.600",{"_20":3335,"_90":268,"_269":3336,"_277":3366,"_279":280},"8fb2b43cbdf7",[3337,3342,3345,3350,3353,3358,3361],{"_20":3338,"_90":273,"_274":3339,"_141":3341},"5621fa5fe8dc",[3340],"9494063","Those signals can be influential to again your product roadmap.",{"_20":3343,"_90":273,"_274":3344,"_141":2313},"41858bbf7398",[],{"_20":3346,"_90":273,"_274":3347,"_141":3349},"e760d0649241",[3348],"7ccd356","It can help then veer customers back onto the golden path.",{"_20":3351,"_90":273,"_274":3352,"_141":2313},"bfb3aa4d6f3a",[],{"_20":3354,"_90":273,"_274":3355,"_141":3357},"b5599e70ca07",[3356],"f93a53a","Maybe you just have poor onboarding documentation.",{"_20":3359,"_90":273,"_274":3360,"_141":2313},"106732bd1811",[],{"_20":3362,"_90":273,"_274":3363,"_141":3365},"21e4d6edf256",[3364],"af5328f","Maybe there's something missing in how you're actually engaging with your customers earlier on, whether that be in how your marketing materials are presented.",[3367,3369,3371,3373],{"_20":3340,"_90":2329,"_2330":3368},"00:07:24.740",{"_20":3348,"_90":2329,"_2330":3370},"00:07:29.300",{"_20":3356,"_90":2329,"_2330":3372},"00:07:32.500",{"_20":3364,"_90":2329,"_2330":3374},"00:07:34.980",{"_20":3376,"_90":268,"_269":3377,"_277":3399,"_279":280},"8e54607cde38",[3378,3383,3386,3391,3394],{"_20":3379,"_90":273,"_274":3380,"_141":3382},"ac090ca8ac0a",[3381],"cbb5e95","But the idea here is to detect that.",{"_20":3384,"_90":273,"_274":3385,"_141":2313},"60c9baf1ee55",[],{"_20":3387,"_90":273,"_274":3388,"_141":3390},"47ddc7dfbd98",[3389],"1eb4cb6","And that's where AI can actually really come into play, pick up those signals.",{"_20":3392,"_90":273,"_274":3393,"_141":2313},"4ca123ebeba8",[],{"_20":3395,"_90":273,"_274":3396,"_141":3398},"99eef79dd614",[3397],"3af2ea0","And then this is where it's gonna be key for your time is when to actually intervene.",[3400,3402,3404],{"_20":3381,"_90":2329,"_2330":3401},"00:07:42.740",{"_20":3389,"_90":2329,"_2330":3403},"00:07:44.700",{"_20":3397,"_90":2329,"_2330":3405},"00:07:48.780",{"_20":3407,"_90":268,"_269":3408,"_277":3438,"_279":280},"e43fff4f5d5d",[3409,3414,3417,3422,3425,3430,3433],{"_20":3410,"_90":273,"_274":3411,"_141":3413},"e78c68c377cd",[3412],"37d8161","And so when you're actually then seeing these drifts,",{"_20":3415,"_90":273,"_274":3416,"_141":2313},"00dc6c511884",[],{"_20":3418,"_90":273,"_274":3419,"_141":3421},"7f25ccd90e32",[3420],"5fd4204","does that mean that the founders should immediately jump in?",{"_20":3423,"_90":273,"_274":3424,"_141":2313},"49cccb05fc73",[],{"_20":3426,"_90":273,"_274":3427,"_141":3429},"075cfc9d36d0",[3428],"89836b7","Does it mean that we should actually then send them some sort of materials?",{"_20":3431,"_90":273,"_274":3432,"_141":2313},"40bda2b1e681",[],{"_20":3434,"_90":273,"_274":3435,"_141":3437},"12ed37abe245",[3436],"1191d34","Does it mean that we should open up a Slack channel with them?",[3439,3441,3443,3445],{"_20":3412,"_90":2329,"_2330":3440},"00:07:53.980",{"_20":3420,"_90":2329,"_2330":3442},"00:07:57.340",{"_20":3428,"_90":2329,"_2330":3444},"00:08:00.300",{"_20":3436,"_90":2329,"_2330":3446},"00:08:04.060",{"_20":3448,"_90":268,"_269":3449,"_277":3471,"_279":280},"ac081a8be682",[3450,3455,3458,3463,3466],{"_20":3451,"_90":273,"_274":3452,"_141":3454},"0de4fca7aa3c",[3453],"aeae485","It really depends on how you guys operate today and what works for you guys.",{"_20":3456,"_90":273,"_274":3457,"_141":2313},"29deb06833f0",[],{"_20":3459,"_90":273,"_274":3460,"_141":3462},"b6d55b973611",[3461],"96b542f","I was talking earlier with some folks about how they are onboarding their customers and doing weekly check-ins as an example. At Tailscale, throughout the entire process, and we'll talk about this in a little bit as well,",{"_20":3464,"_90":273,"_274":3465,"_141":2313},"f7d83e644cbb",[],{"_20":3467,"_90":273,"_274":3468,"_141":3470},"7ebfeed234b3",[3469],"31a3ecc","we have a dedicated Slack channel with our customers pre-sales.",[3472,3474,3476],{"_20":3453,"_90":2329,"_2330":3473},"00:08:07.020",{"_20":3461,"_90":2329,"_2330":3475},"00:08:11.900",{"_20":3469,"_90":2329,"_2330":3477},"00:08:23.060",{"_20":3479,"_90":268,"_269":3480,"_277":3502,"_279":280},"23a440a7ca11",[3481,3486,3489,3494,3497],{"_20":3482,"_90":273,"_274":3483,"_141":3485},"9e1c9744352c",[3484],"c3c894c","And then it's actually something because you sort of get them hooked a little bit, but that's something that they can pay for on the post-sale side as well and have",{"_20":3487,"_90":273,"_274":3488,"_141":2313},"0abbe016cded",[],{"_20":3490,"_90":273,"_274":3491,"_141":3493},"87a9190d18c6",[3492],"52e43a0","in perpetuity.",{"_20":3495,"_90":273,"_274":3496,"_141":2313},"d498f03c6287",[],{"_20":3498,"_90":273,"_274":3499,"_141":3501},"72834337a89c",[3500],"1b32f75","But there's obviously customers that we want to continue that asynchronous communication with indefinitely.",[3503,3505,3507],{"_20":3484,"_90":2329,"_2330":3504},"00:08:26.740",{"_20":3492,"_90":2329,"_2330":3506},"00:08:32.959",{"_20":3500,"_90":2329,"_2330":3508},"00:08:34.080",{"_20":3510,"_90":268,"_269":3511,"_277":3549,"_279":280},"4a8848607ba5",[3512,3517,3520,3525,3528,3533,3536,3541,3544],{"_20":3513,"_90":273,"_274":3514,"_141":3516},"61ad32c6c3a0",[3515],"de41cfc","And so what this means is the reality of everything is the shifting expectations.",{"_20":3518,"_90":273,"_274":3519,"_141":2313},"33bc467e32fa",[],{"_20":3521,"_90":273,"_274":3522,"_141":3524},"4baf632acf2b",[3523],"9473d5b","In an AI world today,",{"_20":3526,"_90":273,"_274":3527,"_141":2313},"e430abbdb69d",[],{"_20":3529,"_90":273,"_274":3530,"_141":3532},"0332d2f1e0c6",[3531],"ccda003","everyone is expecting expediency.",{"_20":3534,"_90":273,"_274":3535,"_141":2313},"3ae4710bb92b",[],{"_20":3537,"_90":273,"_274":3538,"_141":3540},"fca62cf91c41",[3539],"725a08f","They're expecting experts and they're also expecting self-service.",{"_20":3542,"_90":273,"_274":3543,"_141":2313},"02c977b2becc",[],{"_20":3545,"_90":273,"_274":3546,"_141":3548},"d9f74089178f",[3547],"92882e4","Being able to troubleshoot their own problems.",[3550,3552,3554,3556,3558],{"_20":3515,"_90":2329,"_2330":3551},"00:08:41.579",{"_20":3523,"_90":2329,"_2330":3553},"00:08:46.699",{"_20":3531,"_90":2329,"_2330":3555},"00:08:48.860",{"_20":3539,"_90":2329,"_2330":3557},"00:08:51.260",{"_20":3547,"_90":2329,"_2330":3559},"00:08:55.420",{"_20":3561,"_90":268,"_269":3562,"_277":3592,"_279":280},"a055099d6961",[3563,3568,3571,3576,3579,3584,3587],{"_20":3564,"_90":273,"_274":3565,"_141":3567},"fb734a28c6ec",[3566],"34dac64","One of the things is when I first joined Tailscale, and I won't talk about the company, we had a chatbot that we had in place.",{"_20":3569,"_90":273,"_274":3570,"_141":2313},"f96a0ef28084",[],{"_20":3572,"_90":273,"_274":3573,"_141":3575},"0d453bc4be9f",[3574],"a9d89c2","'Cause",{"_20":3577,"_90":273,"_274":3578,"_141":2313},"40145260261e",[],{"_20":3580,"_90":273,"_274":3581,"_141":3583},"14a2e075a3ae",[3582],"90a41ab","support was drowning in support requests, because again we support all of our customers.",{"_20":3585,"_90":273,"_274":3586,"_141":2313},"c498ca822383",[],{"_20":3588,"_90":273,"_274":3589,"_141":3591},"2ccf3dc30be6",[3590],"974c048","And so it's like, well, let's get a chatbot in there.",[3593,3595,3597,3599],{"_20":3566,"_90":2329,"_2330":3594},"00:08:57.620",{"_20":3574,"_90":2329,"_2330":3596},"00:09:04.899",{"_20":3582,"_90":2329,"_2330":3598},"00:09:05.339",{"_20":3590,"_90":2329,"_2330":3600},"00:09:10.060",{"_20":3602,"_90":268,"_269":3603,"_277":3625,"_279":280},"748f5e7920c2",[3604,3609,3612,3617,3620],{"_20":3605,"_90":273,"_274":3606,"_141":3608},"85208a04f28a",[3607],"9ab8f55","Developers absolutely hated it.",{"_20":3610,"_90":273,"_274":3611,"_141":2313},"1fe735eb76ad",[],{"_20":3613,"_90":273,"_274":3614,"_141":3616},"22be607f79ab",[3615],"af29c3b","Because one of the things is you have this little window and you're trying to put context in and then you're getting this massive response that",{"_20":3618,"_90":273,"_274":3619,"_141":2313},"592333de9062",[],{"_20":3621,"_90":273,"_274":3622,"_141":3624},"0deb20be6406",[3623],"94dccab","hallucinated most of the time and it just was not valuable at all.",[3626,3628,3630],{"_20":3607,"_90":2329,"_2330":3627},"00:09:13.300",{"_20":3615,"_90":2329,"_2330":3629},"00:09:15.060",{"_20":3623,"_90":2329,"_2330":3631},"00:09:21.140",{"_20":3633,"_90":268,"_269":3634,"_277":3656,"_279":280},"350afc0ffb7f",[3635,3640,3643,3648,3651],{"_20":3636,"_90":273,"_274":3637,"_141":3639},"3abeddac58ec",[3638],"f905315","And so we introduced a new tool that was actually much more respectful.",{"_20":3641,"_90":273,"_274":3642,"_141":2313},"bae43fabbb08",[],{"_20":3644,"_90":273,"_274":3645,"_141":3647},"9d69093a3380",[3646],"ac8955a","And the way we implemented it was a little Ask AI widget in the lower right corner.",{"_20":3649,"_90":273,"_274":3650,"_141":2313},"81e0fc3d0b46",[],{"_20":3652,"_90":273,"_274":3653,"_141":3655},"b1bee36a9b36",[3654],"0e344a5","So you can ask AI and it's a simple sort of question interface.",[3657,3659,3661],{"_20":3638,"_90":2329,"_2330":3658},"00:09:24.820",{"_20":3646,"_90":2329,"_2330":3660},"00:09:29.860",{"_20":3654,"_90":2329,"_2330":3662},"00:09:34.100",{"_20":3664,"_90":268,"_269":3665,"_277":3695,"_279":280},"f29a650510c3",[3666,3671,3674,3679,3682,3687,3690],{"_20":3667,"_90":273,"_274":3668,"_141":3670},"5ff320e41507",[3669],"01b4241","And the beauty of this tool, it says I don't know.",{"_20":3672,"_90":273,"_274":3673,"_141":2313},"3fc33303136e",[],{"_20":3675,"_90":273,"_274":3676,"_141":3678},"806a83326c7b",[3677],"6cf3128","That was one of the biggest things,",{"_20":3680,"_90":273,"_274":3681,"_141":2313},"754a995d0a7c",[],{"_20":3683,"_90":273,"_274":3684,"_141":3686},"fa33695e247d",[3685],"3c144cb","to start building that trust even through the lens of AI, to give that response of I don't know based on what I've been told or what I've been trained on.",{"_20":3688,"_90":273,"_274":3689,"_141":2313},"092044ded017",[],{"_20":3691,"_90":273,"_274":3692,"_141":3694},"674b99be3eb9",[3693],"f353193","Here might be an answer for you.",[3696,3698,3700,3702],{"_20":3669,"_90":2329,"_2330":3697},"00:09:37.779",{"_20":3677,"_90":2329,"_2330":3699},"00:09:41.620",{"_20":3685,"_90":2329,"_2330":3701},"00:09:43.759",{"_20":3693,"_90":2329,"_2330":3703},"00:09:52.040",{"_20":3705,"_90":268,"_269":3706,"_277":3712,"_279":1717},"7a19e6cea1be",[3707],{"_20":3708,"_90":273,"_274":3709,"_141":3711},"8e3f9302a04c",[3710],"d03bb03","Saying I don't know was huge and continuing to build that trust, even though we were leveraging AI.",[3713],{"_20":3710,"_90":2329,"_2330":3714},"00:09:53.959",{"_20":3716,"_90":268,"_269":3717,"_277":3739,"_279":280},"93dcc3f89527",[3718,3723,3726,3731,3734],{"_20":3719,"_90":273,"_274":3720,"_141":3722},"291dc5eb060a",[3721],"97305da","And then we also introduced it within our support contact us form.",{"_20":3724,"_90":273,"_274":3725,"_141":2313},"82094c614df4",[],{"_20":3727,"_90":273,"_274":3728,"_141":3730},"20ec443932b1",[3729],"272f9fd","So you can fill out our support contact us form, you hit submit, it'll generate a response for you.",{"_20":3732,"_90":273,"_274":3733,"_141":2313},"df3c4ae3bbe7",[],{"_20":3735,"_90":273,"_274":3736,"_141":3738},"fa58c286edc1",[3737],"5583871","You can take it or you can hit submit again and it goes to again our human-based support.",[3740,3742,3744],{"_20":3721,"_90":2329,"_2330":3741},"00:09:58.760",{"_20":3729,"_90":2329,"_2330":3743},"00:10:02.700",{"_20":3737,"_90":2329,"_2330":3745},"00:10:07.020",{"_20":3747,"_90":268,"_269":3748,"_277":3770,"_279":280},"4badf37c5277",[3749,3754,3757,3762,3765],{"_20":3750,"_90":273,"_274":3751,"_141":3753},"11920a418751",[3752],"6b38389","So the idea here is, okay, expediency, take that result and off you go.",{"_20":3755,"_90":273,"_274":3756,"_141":2313},"fc938aa72b15",[],{"_20":3758,"_90":273,"_274":3759,"_141":3761},"9c137ea0de09",[3760],"65eb971","Or",{"_20":3763,"_90":273,"_274":3764,"_141":2313},"0c4c7104b4cc",[],{"_20":3766,"_90":273,"_274":3767,"_141":3769},"83c2da347792",[3768],"9d1c813","again come to us from a human-based perspective and we'll give you that high quality support.",[3771,3773,3775],{"_20":3752,"_90":2329,"_2330":3772},"00:10:10.780",{"_20":3760,"_90":2329,"_2330":3774},"00:10:15.420",{"_20":3768,"_90":2329,"_2330":3776},"00:10:16.040",{"_20":3778,"_90":268,"_269":3779,"_277":3801,"_279":280},"ed2ff700cccf",[3780,3785,3788,3793,3796],{"_20":3781,"_90":273,"_274":3782,"_141":3784},"fcb7550d1f51",[3783],"88d48af","And so it's one of these things about understanding",{"_20":3786,"_90":273,"_274":3787,"_141":2313},"73391d301f97",[],{"_20":3789,"_90":273,"_274":3790,"_141":3792},"3b2bf9b35246",[3791],"f2a94a0","how your customers work, how they operate, and really leaning into that.",{"_20":3794,"_90":273,"_274":3795,"_141":2313},"edc2977ad2bb",[],{"_20":3797,"_90":273,"_274":3798,"_141":3800},"0c8d76c1e1cc",[3799],"8c7f686","And because you guys are developers and so you understand when you're using a product how you want to engage, try to replicate that as much as possible.",[3802,3804,3806],{"_20":3783,"_90":2329,"_2330":3803},"00:10:21.080",{"_20":3791,"_90":2329,"_2330":3805},"00:10:23.860",{"_20":3799,"_90":2329,"_2330":3807},"00:10:27.700",{"_20":3809,"_90":268,"_269":3810,"_277":3815,"_279":355},"b67543810d1d",[3811],{"_20":3812,"_90":273,"_274":3813,"_141":3814},"78d962f64871",[],"Building the Stack",[],{"_20":3817,"_90":268,"_269":3818,"_277":3848,"_279":280},"b71db4d52495",[3819,3824,3827,3832,3835,3840,3843],{"_20":3820,"_90":273,"_274":3821,"_141":3823},"cf499acd86f8",[3822],"07c29b9","And so we'll talk a little bit about our stack.",{"_20":3825,"_90":273,"_274":3826,"_141":2313},"82b706356c3d",[],{"_20":3828,"_90":273,"_274":3829,"_141":3831},"92b127b36d30",[3830],"9d88732","I mentioned the tool that I talked about in terms of AI.",{"_20":3833,"_90":273,"_274":3834,"_141":2313},"6d414d285bff",[],{"_20":3836,"_90":273,"_274":3837,"_141":3839},"cb19974c2ca7",[3838],"a97dd20","But we also use it through the lens of our own actual product usage.",{"_20":3841,"_90":273,"_274":3842,"_141":2313},"b968eed969c4",[],{"_20":3844,"_90":273,"_274":3845,"_141":3847},"f84e67b2e839",[3846],"d7a730d","And so there's a product we came out with called Aperture.",[3849,3851,3853,3855],{"_20":3822,"_90":2329,"_2330":3850},"00:10:37.300",{"_20":3830,"_90":2329,"_2330":3852},"00:10:39.380",{"_20":3838,"_90":2329,"_2330":3854},"00:10:44.060",{"_20":3846,"_90":2329,"_2330":3856},"00:10:47.660",{"_20":3858,"_90":268,"_269":3859,"_277":3873,"_279":280},"cb7ac15bf989",[3860,3865,3868],{"_20":3861,"_90":273,"_274":3862,"_141":3864},"0b6a86141a6d",[3863],"21dcb7c","The idea is that it's a single API key",{"_20":3866,"_90":273,"_274":3867,"_141":2313},"e83806e32f82",[],{"_20":3869,"_90":273,"_274":3870,"_141":3872},"d25566447364",[3871],"bbfc302","that you give to us and then you can give access out to then all of your developers, or in our case our customer success engineers, because how our engineers are actually using AI today is through the lens of things like Claude, where they're actually replicating our customers' environments.",[3874,3876],{"_20":3863,"_90":2329,"_2330":3875},"00:10:51.260",{"_20":3871,"_90":2329,"_2330":3877},"00:10:54.360",{"_20":3879,"_90":268,"_269":3880,"_277":3910,"_279":280},"d577b61673a1",[3881,3886,3889,3894,3897,3902,3905],{"_20":3882,"_90":273,"_274":3883,"_141":3885},"ffe71e915e82",[3884],"a5fd976","And it sits also on top of our code base and we can identify quickly where there are issues within our code base that the customer is bringing up.",{"_20":3887,"_90":273,"_274":3888,"_141":2313},"e571c9b894db",[],{"_20":3890,"_90":273,"_274":3891,"_141":3893},"1d79e10bf44d",[3892],"2b9cfa5","We can then create PRs from that or",{"_20":3895,"_90":273,"_274":3896,"_141":2313},"f6767be92906",[],{"_20":3898,"_90":273,"_274":3899,"_141":3901},"dc7a5b81ab4a",[3900],"1a7c2e1","in certain situations we can quickly find workarounds for our customers.",{"_20":3903,"_90":273,"_274":3904,"_141":2313},"733771a9d8c3",[],{"_20":3906,"_90":273,"_274":3907,"_141":3909},"74037bcdd286",[3908],"f01e455","The beauty of this is everyone has visibility into it.",[3911,3913,3915,3917],{"_20":3884,"_90":2329,"_2330":3912},"00:11:09.080",{"_20":3892,"_90":2329,"_2330":3914},"00:11:16.120",{"_20":3900,"_90":2329,"_2330":3916},"00:11:18.459",{"_20":3908,"_90":2329,"_2330":3918},"00:11:22.540",{"_20":3920,"_90":268,"_269":3921,"_277":3959,"_279":280},"d127ce6cb878",[3922,3927,3930,3935,3938,3943,3946,3951,3954],{"_20":3923,"_90":273,"_274":3924,"_141":3926},"62a9037d6e0f",[3925],"ddad997","And so what we have found is",{"_20":3928,"_90":273,"_274":3929,"_141":2313},"04c47ca31b4c",[],{"_20":3931,"_90":273,"_274":3932,"_141":3934},"cacdfe14ca64",[3933],"f212225","teammates, rather than just sitting over someone's shoulder or asynchronously asking, hey, how did you solve this or that?",{"_20":3936,"_90":273,"_274":3937,"_141":2313},"278327cd44c1",[],{"_20":3939,"_90":273,"_274":3940,"_141":3942},"2df8109af7f7",[3941],"e1ff849","We can actually go in and see all of the prompts",{"_20":3944,"_90":273,"_274":3945,"_141":2313},"0faefb22964c",[],{"_20":3947,"_90":273,"_274":3948,"_141":3950},"615c83aaaf29",[3949],"ef2afee","and responses as part of that.",{"_20":3952,"_90":273,"_274":3953,"_141":2313},"ddae8749ac7a",[],{"_20":3955,"_90":273,"_274":3956,"_141":3958},"45af734ac36f",[3957],"5323ca5","And that's where we're actually learning a lot from each other asynchronously versus having to always jump on a call, et cetera.",[3960,3962,3964,3966,3968],{"_20":3925,"_90":2329,"_2330":3961},"00:11:25.019",{"_20":3933,"_90":2329,"_2330":3963},"00:11:27.140",{"_20":3941,"_90":2329,"_2330":3965},"00:11:32.980",{"_20":3949,"_90":2329,"_2330":3967},"00:11:35.259",{"_20":3957,"_90":2329,"_2330":3969},"00:11:36.699",{"_20":3971,"_90":268,"_269":3972,"_277":3986,"_279":280},"dd0ad3c8b1a4",[3973,3978,3981],{"_20":3974,"_90":273,"_274":3975,"_141":3977},"8614f9f339b4",[3976],"2d90813","And so my point with this is",{"_20":3979,"_90":273,"_274":3980,"_141":2313},"6842d1b32152",[],{"_20":3982,"_90":273,"_274":3983,"_141":3985},"69155a0c67ee",[3984],"db4fb60","the things that we're also building internally or the things that we're selling or the things that we're using as well, and it's become a very central part of our product stack.",[3987,3989],{"_20":3976,"_90":2329,"_2330":3988},"00:11:42.540",{"_20":3984,"_90":2329,"_2330":3990},"00:11:44.140",{"_20":3992,"_90":268,"_269":3993,"_277":4023,"_279":280},"a79b6e711b65",[3994,3999,4002,4007,4010,4015,4018],{"_20":3995,"_90":273,"_274":3996,"_141":3998},"52a55a81d352",[3997],"8cedd38","In addition to this, we're using the basics like Jira, like Gong, like Slack, as I mentioned earlier.",{"_20":4000,"_90":273,"_274":4001,"_141":2313},"da08337b48ac",[],{"_20":4003,"_90":273,"_274":4004,"_141":4006},"5530e2cae5e1",[4005],"23a797e","So there's nothing that's absolutely insane or crazy about our stack.",{"_20":4008,"_90":273,"_274":4009,"_141":2313},"21b859380241",[],{"_20":4011,"_90":273,"_274":4012,"_141":4014},"cc41cb428037",[4013],"8c6c31f","It's almost whatever tools make sense for you in your stage and phase, you can ultimately make work.",{"_20":4016,"_90":273,"_274":4017,"_141":2313},"8e7f490cf3f7",[],{"_20":4019,"_90":273,"_274":4020,"_141":4022},"b8c922655b14",[4021],"6082480","And a lot of that again has become a commodity.",[4024,4026,4028,4030],{"_20":3997,"_90":2329,"_2330":4025},"00:11:53.959",{"_20":4005,"_90":2329,"_2330":4027},"00:12:00.680",{"_20":4013,"_90":2329,"_2330":4029},"00:12:04.300",{"_20":4021,"_90":2329,"_2330":4031},"00:12:10.459",{"_20":4033,"_90":268,"_269":4034,"_277":4056,"_279":280},"a114467a3c74",[4035,4040,4043,4048,4051],{"_20":4036,"_90":273,"_274":4037,"_141":4039},"2549c034f884",[4038],"d0e7db3","So the bootstrap stack.",{"_20":4041,"_90":273,"_274":4042,"_141":2313},"7ab812f62dfa",[],{"_20":4044,"_90":273,"_274":4045,"_141":4047},"6c39148739cf",[4046],"b4b688d","And I stripped some of the company names here, but I can bring them back in conversationally.",{"_20":4049,"_90":273,"_274":4050,"_141":2313},"f6428ce697ff",[],{"_20":4052,"_90":273,"_274":4053,"_141":4055},"f7943f4a90f2",[4054],"4a13ebe","But it's really about synthesis.",[4057,4059,4061],{"_20":4038,"_90":2329,"_2330":4058},"00:12:15.780",{"_20":4046,"_90":2329,"_2330":4060},"00:12:17.700",{"_20":4054,"_90":2329,"_2330":4062},"00:12:23.060",{"_20":4064,"_90":268,"_269":4065,"_277":4103,"_279":280},"92c26738df8b",[4066,4071,4074,4079,4082,4087,4090,4095,4098],{"_20":4067,"_90":273,"_274":4068,"_141":4070},"4d3b1e29b58e",[4069],"799a0d9","And so",{"_20":4072,"_90":273,"_274":4073,"_141":2313},"58239c91bbc2",[],{"_20":4075,"_90":273,"_274":4076,"_141":4078},"ba1a3d45a90a",[4077],"df371bb","syncing Slack or email or ticketing conversations into one source.",{"_20":4080,"_90":273,"_274":4081,"_141":2313},"d99198d91206",[],{"_20":4083,"_90":273,"_274":4084,"_141":4086},"6b3ba8f392ed",[4085],"3347869","And so a lot of times there's a ton of support tools out there.",{"_20":4088,"_90":273,"_274":4089,"_141":2313},"a81199de038c",[],{"_20":4091,"_90":273,"_274":4092,"_141":4094},"2b540fd2e450",[4093],"518c0ab","We're talking about Unthread, I'm a big fan of Pylon, and there's a handful of others that will bring all of that context into one place",{"_20":4096,"_90":273,"_274":4097,"_141":2313},"bbad4ded92af",[],{"_20":4099,"_90":273,"_274":4100,"_141":4102},"29b425e3409d",[4101],"7420a4a","instead of having all these disparate channels.",[4104,4106,4108,4110,4112],{"_20":4069,"_90":2329,"_2330":4105},"00:12:25.060",{"_20":4077,"_90":2329,"_2330":4107},"00:12:25.839",{"_20":4085,"_90":2329,"_2330":4109},"00:12:33.279",{"_20":4093,"_90":2329,"_2330":4111},"00:12:35.980",{"_20":4101,"_90":2329,"_2330":4113},"00:12:43.959",{"_20":4115,"_90":268,"_269":4116,"_277":4138,"_279":280},"372c0c1aff4e",[4117,4122,4125,4130,4133],{"_20":4118,"_90":273,"_274":4119,"_141":4121},"7a5c9f2d34ad",[4120],"40e6d23","From an early stage perspective, I always feel like having a dedicated Slack channel for all of your customers, maybe a community Slack channel as well, is a great way to get more high fidelity engagement from your customers.",{"_20":4123,"_90":273,"_274":4124,"_141":2313},"0d5c8fb4c106",[],{"_20":4126,"_90":273,"_274":4127,"_141":4129},"6c15141aa601",[4128],"03240b1","And then using, whether it be PostHog or otherwise, tracking those events.",{"_20":4131,"_90":273,"_274":4132,"_141":2313},"3d1e56ad96c9",[],{"_20":4134,"_90":273,"_274":4135,"_141":4137},"b08865e92aad",[4136],"d46f610","And those events of staying on the golden path, veering off the golden path, etc.",[4139,4141,4143],{"_20":4120,"_90":2329,"_2330":4140},"00:12:46.200",{"_20":4128,"_90":2329,"_2330":4142},"00:12:58.360",{"_20":4136,"_90":2329,"_2330":4144},"00:13:03.560",{"_20":4146,"_90":268,"_269":4147,"_277":4169,"_279":280},"08c3b0198f14",[4148,4153,4156,4161,4164],{"_20":4149,"_90":273,"_274":4150,"_141":4152},"88e8e66ac0e2",[4151],"48e0df3","So that then allows you to quickly intervene, as I mentioned earlier, with potentially a founder or with some other touch point.",{"_20":4154,"_90":273,"_274":4155,"_141":2313},"2989afe69285",[],{"_20":4157,"_90":273,"_274":4158,"_141":4160},"b5acd9ac34d9",[4159],"d2eca60","And then notifying in Slack, let's say you've defined what your tier one customers are, using that as a way of saying if a customer that is a tier one reaches out or has this event that they're going off the golden path",{"_20":4162,"_90":273,"_274":4163,"_141":2313},"fd9173c5636c",[],{"_20":4165,"_90":273,"_274":4166,"_141":4168},"5ab12a4af729",[4167],"c98d118","that you can then quickly intervene in a way that is actually high value.",[4170,4172,4174],{"_20":4151,"_90":2329,"_2330":4171},"00:13:07.980",{"_20":4159,"_90":2329,"_2330":4173},"00:13:16.060",{"_20":4167,"_90":2329,"_2330":4175},"00:13:29.320",{"_20":4177,"_90":268,"_269":4178,"_277":4184,"_279":1717},"93f1675cebe1",[4179],{"_20":4180,"_90":273,"_274":4181,"_141":4183},"a80de3f9bcf2",[4182],"6021000","We're trying to optimize your time and not over-optimize all of your processes.",[4185],{"_20":4182,"_90":2329,"_2330":4186},"00:13:33.400",{"_20":4188,"_90":268,"_269":4189,"_277":4211,"_279":280},"f69f79947d90",[4190,4195,4198,4203,4206],{"_20":4191,"_90":273,"_274":4192,"_141":4194},"9af101550f8f",[4193],"f83c206","And again, the human handoff.",{"_20":4196,"_90":273,"_274":4197,"_141":2313},"0147053093f1",[],{"_20":4199,"_90":273,"_274":4200,"_141":4202},"1357c06d4bd1",[4201],"97c1145","This is the piece that's super critical, and I know I've been laboring on about it, but I can't stress it enough that that is your differentiator, engaging from a human-to-human perspective",{"_20":4204,"_90":273,"_274":4205,"_141":2313},"f70e94bb8de6",[],{"_20":4207,"_90":273,"_274":4208,"_141":4210},"1d8328375e87",[4209],"27f1082","is huge.",[4212,4214,4216],{"_20":4193,"_90":2329,"_2330":4213},"00:13:39.620",{"_20":4201,"_90":2329,"_2330":4215},"00:13:41.620",{"_20":4209,"_90":2329,"_2330":4217},"00:13:51.240",{"_20":4219,"_90":268,"_269":4220,"_277":4250,"_279":280},"ef1921a7e5ba",[4221,4226,4229,4234,4237,4242,4245],{"_20":4222,"_90":273,"_274":4223,"_141":4225},"89f3d9c9cb0a",[4224],"6efde30","We see it time and time again, even at our stage at a Series C, where customers put emphasis on meeting them in person, engaging with them on Slack, being that ever presence.",{"_20":4227,"_90":273,"_274":4228,"_141":2313},"fc748d89cca9",[],{"_20":4230,"_90":273,"_274":4231,"_141":4233},"bb4dc2f72d09",[4232],"1dc87b7","And I can't tell you how many times, and so",{"_20":4235,"_90":273,"_274":4236,"_141":2313},"0d6fcd3ac317",[],{"_20":4238,"_90":273,"_274":4239,"_141":4241},"cf1247df14eb",[4240],"1e5083f","we'll sell against the Palo Alto Networks, the Zscalers.",{"_20":4243,"_90":273,"_274":4244,"_141":2313},"81885c6d6c0e",[],{"_20":4246,"_90":273,"_274":4247,"_141":4249},"993d55470929",[4248],"18f3243","These are massive companies.",[4251,4253,4255,4257],{"_20":4224,"_90":2329,"_2330":4252},"00:13:51.800",{"_20":4232,"_90":2329,"_2330":4254},"00:14:03.480",{"_20":4240,"_90":2329,"_2330":4256},"00:14:05.759",{"_20":4248,"_90":2329,"_2330":4258},"00:14:08.639",{"_20":4260,"_90":268,"_269":4261,"_277":4275,"_279":280},"51696756ec43",[4262,4267,4270],{"_20":4263,"_90":273,"_274":4264,"_141":4266},"8f28bf938f21",[4265],"925d559","And how many times we meet with customers that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars with us.",{"_20":4268,"_90":273,"_274":4269,"_141":2313},"cf093a367fc6",[],{"_20":4271,"_90":273,"_274":4272,"_141":4274},"771ca121c1f5",[4273],"50b31b2","And they're like, we never see our vendors.",[4276,4278],{"_20":4265,"_90":2329,"_2330":4277},"00:14:10.399",{"_20":4273,"_90":2329,"_2330":4279},"00:14:14.360",{"_20":4281,"_90":268,"_269":4282,"_277":4320,"_279":280},"94f64959cbfe",[4283,4288,4291,4296,4299,4304,4307,4312,4315],{"_20":4284,"_90":273,"_274":4285,"_141":4287},"457da86a07aa",[4286],"83f2af4","And so we're constantly making an effort to show up and be present.",{"_20":4289,"_90":273,"_274":4290,"_141":2313},"f3848c036a68",[],{"_20":4292,"_90":273,"_274":4293,"_141":4295},"c8cb71d709ba",[4294],"5313c88","That doesn't mean you have to fly around the world.",{"_20":4297,"_90":273,"_274":4298,"_141":2313},"cd36d18acc8e",[],{"_20":4300,"_90":273,"_274":4301,"_141":4303},"55aa91b375e6",[4302],"4399c45","I know",{"_20":4305,"_90":273,"_274":4306,"_141":2313},"93f0f7bb7e83",[],{"_20":4308,"_90":273,"_274":4309,"_141":4311},"ed6c7cdfe6e5",[4310],"f9ff7c1","some of you actually have flown around the world just to be here.",{"_20":4313,"_90":273,"_274":4314,"_141":2313},"532774fd390a",[],{"_20":4316,"_90":273,"_274":4317,"_141":4319},"9eaccf22214e",[4318],"dffe6ec","So appreciate that.",[4321,4323,4325,4327,4329],{"_20":4286,"_90":2329,"_2330":4322},"00:14:16.840",{"_20":4294,"_90":2329,"_2330":4324},"00:14:20.600",{"_20":4302,"_90":2329,"_2330":4326},"00:14:22.680",{"_20":4310,"_90":2329,"_2330":4328},"00:14:23.259",{"_20":4318,"_90":2329,"_2330":4330},"00:14:25.740",{"_20":4332,"_90":268,"_269":4333,"_277":4371,"_279":280},"029e5e944c29",[4334,4339,4342,4347,4350,4355,4358,4363,4366],{"_20":4335,"_90":273,"_274":4336,"_141":4338},"cf6399b69ceb",[4337],"83d3639","But it doesn't mean you have to fly around the world or always be in a boardroom with your customers.",{"_20":4340,"_90":273,"_274":4341,"_141":2313},"6c8f45e121b7",[],{"_20":4343,"_90":273,"_274":4344,"_141":4346},"ad9f2a523add",[4345],"146bf8d","But again, just meeting them where they are is super, super critical.",{"_20":4348,"_90":273,"_274":4349,"_141":2313},"7a60a3be31f7",[],{"_20":4351,"_90":273,"_274":4352,"_141":4354},"2815a2be98f0",[4353],"376ee45","And then it's about",{"_20":4356,"_90":273,"_274":4357,"_141":2313},"8d9eb10d2826",[],{"_20":4359,"_90":273,"_274":4360,"_141":4362},"8fc1d8be8f2c",[4361],"8166f02","automating those things that are repetitive tasks",{"_20":4364,"_90":273,"_274":4365,"_141":2313},"27e885805e14",[],{"_20":4367,"_90":273,"_274":4368,"_141":4370},"22d6d3a0c9ad",[4369],"1be928a","and not having to think about the things that are low-value interactions for you.",[4372,4374,4376,4378,4380],{"_20":4337,"_90":2329,"_2330":4373},"00:14:26.940",{"_20":4345,"_90":2329,"_2330":4375},"00:14:31.339",{"_20":4353,"_90":2329,"_2330":4377},"00:14:34.860",{"_20":4361,"_90":2329,"_2330":4379},"00:14:36.440",{"_20":4369,"_90":2329,"_2330":4381},"00:14:38.920",{"_20":4383,"_90":268,"_269":4384,"_277":4389,"_279":355},"70178bab1b0e",[4385],{"_20":4386,"_90":273,"_274":4387,"_141":4388},"8fd6b8c84e0b",[],"An Action Plan and the Maturity Model",[],{"_20":4391,"_90":268,"_269":4392,"_277":4422,"_279":280},"edfde48c227e",[4393,4398,4401,4406,4409,4414,4417],{"_20":4394,"_90":273,"_274":4395,"_141":4397},"d511c148de4f",[4396],"7e1b0d8","So how does this actually play out today?",{"_20":4399,"_90":273,"_274":4400,"_141":2313},"2175b7a2091a",[],{"_20":4402,"_90":273,"_274":4403,"_141":4405},"22ff34ea5844",[4404],"ac8158e","And so this is something that you can ultimately take on and I know I'm preaching the choir because in some of my conversations you guys are already doing this, which is absolutely amazing.",{"_20":4407,"_90":273,"_274":4408,"_141":2313},"b41100a9c11e",[],{"_20":4410,"_90":273,"_274":4411,"_141":4413},"f23706ebf53b",[4412],"adcb811","But even having a welcome email from you is huge",{"_20":4415,"_90":273,"_274":4416,"_141":2313},"18c374fc9405",[],{"_20":4418,"_90":273,"_274":4419,"_141":4421},"f3693ea40469",[4420],"7990b62","and it actually comes from your email box.",[4423,4425,4427,4429],{"_20":4396,"_90":2329,"_2330":4424},"00:14:46.160",{"_20":4404,"_90":2329,"_2330":4426},"00:14:48.720",{"_20":4412,"_90":2329,"_2330":4428},"00:14:55.520",{"_20":4420,"_90":2329,"_2330":4430},"00:14:58.959",{"_20":4432,"_90":268,"_269":4433,"_277":4471,"_279":280},"9cbabba2e70f",[4434,4439,4442,4447,4450,4455,4458,4463,4466],{"_20":4435,"_90":273,"_274":4436,"_141":4438},"bc90901d75e9",[4437],"9ec45c2","And the key here guys is to actually respond to those emails.",{"_20":4440,"_90":273,"_274":4441,"_141":2313},"a97fdce28222",[],{"_20":4443,"_90":273,"_274":4444,"_141":4446},"30c0b9b63ebc",[4445],"9303a49","That's a big thing.",{"_20":4448,"_90":273,"_274":4449,"_141":2313},"885740614625",[],{"_20":4451,"_90":273,"_274":4452,"_141":4454},"2863f8696106",[4453],"f6fcfd3","It can't be like",{"_20":4456,"_90":273,"_274":4457,"_141":2313},"e595b759fa57",[],{"_20":4459,"_90":273,"_274":4460,"_141":4462},"4f02779697ab",[4461],"b974a44","cool checkbox,",{"_20":4464,"_90":273,"_274":4465,"_141":2313},"05c3632362aa",[],{"_20":4467,"_90":273,"_274":4468,"_141":4470},"3e7c5a9439fd",[4469],"feef660","I said hello to them and that's it.",[4472,4474,4476,4478,4480],{"_20":4437,"_90":2329,"_2330":4473},"00:15:01.200",{"_20":4445,"_90":2329,"_2330":4475},"00:15:05.120",{"_20":4453,"_90":2329,"_2330":4477},"00:15:05.920",{"_20":4461,"_90":2329,"_2330":4479},"00:15:06.759",{"_20":4469,"_90":2329,"_2330":4481},"00:15:07.800",{"_20":4483,"_90":268,"_269":4484,"_277":4498,"_279":280},"c3f776a55f51",[4485,4490,4493],{"_20":4486,"_90":273,"_274":4487,"_141":4489},"cf9762656733",[4488],"94faf19","But actually if they give you some product feedback or if they say something to you, make sure that you respond in some way, shape, or form.",{"_20":4491,"_90":273,"_274":4492,"_141":2313},"662348b19b3d",[],{"_20":4494,"_90":273,"_274":4495,"_141":4497},"01c7af98ec9e",[4496],"c3091ae","Doesn't have to be every single minute of every single day responding, but that is important to show that you are human, that there's people behind this building.",[4499,4501],{"_20":4488,"_90":2329,"_2330":4500},"00:15:09.959",{"_20":4496,"_90":2329,"_2330":4502},"00:15:16.459",{"_20":4504,"_90":268,"_269":4505,"_277":4527,"_279":280},"23faebeefbe3",[4506,4511,4514,4519,4522],{"_20":4507,"_90":273,"_274":4508,"_141":4510},"0768db3f04f2",[4509],"4e13c6c","And then again, consider Slack channels.",{"_20":4512,"_90":273,"_274":4513,"_141":2313},"de9e5296bdfd",[],{"_20":4515,"_90":273,"_274":4516,"_141":4518},"64a017fb1a9a",[4517],"2cbf8f5","Again, as I mentioned earlier, there's a ton of tools that you can leverage that will help make managing those a whole lot easier.",{"_20":4520,"_90":273,"_274":4521,"_141":2313},"6b2212f412a9",[],{"_20":4523,"_90":273,"_274":4524,"_141":4526},"58008720199b",[4525],"b2571bd","So you don't have to worry about endlessly scrolling all of those channels.",[4528,4530,4532],{"_20":4509,"_90":2329,"_2330":4529},"00:15:24.900",{"_20":4517,"_90":2329,"_2330":4531},"00:15:27.060",{"_20":4525,"_90":2329,"_2330":4533},"00:15:33.380",{"_20":4535,"_90":268,"_269":4536,"_277":4566,"_279":280},"68a2e371bd45",[4537,4542,4545,4550,4553,4558,4561],{"_20":4538,"_90":273,"_274":4539,"_141":4541},"57846384b893",[4540],"3c9843f","And then think about building community as part of that earlier on because that is one of the things that you can help defray some of that load for you and then again just",{"_20":4543,"_90":273,"_274":4544,"_141":2313},"6d2ad9bc772b",[],{"_20":4546,"_90":273,"_274":4547,"_141":4549},"ebeb386a96e0",[4548],"2e8fcb9","pick up some of those signals.",{"_20":4551,"_90":273,"_274":4552,"_141":2313},"8feeaf33bf54",[],{"_20":4554,"_90":273,"_274":4555,"_141":4557},"3505b915f64c",[4556],"88ccb00","But a community that is thriving, that is engaging, that is talking about these topics around your product can be huge.",{"_20":4559,"_90":273,"_274":4560,"_141":2313},"7b88949edfa1",[],{"_20":4562,"_90":273,"_274":4563,"_141":4565},"9c601b4e4a51",[4564],"faea00e","And reduce some of that support burden on you.",[4567,4569,4571,4573],{"_20":4540,"_90":2329,"_2330":4568},"00:15:36.720",{"_20":4548,"_90":2329,"_2330":4570},"00:15:44.860",{"_20":4556,"_90":2329,"_2330":4572},"00:15:46.300",{"_20":4564,"_90":2329,"_2330":4574},"00:15:52.140",{"_20":4576,"_90":268,"_269":4577,"_277":4599,"_279":280},"7107d9db16a4",[4578,4583,4586,4591,4594],{"_20":4579,"_90":273,"_274":4580,"_141":4582},"309721556ca4",[4581],"8020242","And then again, really about automation.",{"_20":4584,"_90":273,"_274":4585,"_141":2313},"1683266424c7",[],{"_20":4587,"_90":273,"_274":4588,"_141":4590},"8dc7ac0130dc",[4589],"29ba532","So using something, whether it be Claude, et cetera, to then take in a lot of that context from a support ticket or a conversational perspective",{"_20":4592,"_90":273,"_274":4593,"_141":2313},"e708e06cfdd5",[],{"_20":4595,"_90":273,"_274":4596,"_141":4598},"b0aea9c69f45",[4597],"7235218","and actually turn that into real insights that you guys can leverage.",[4600,4602,4604],{"_20":4581,"_90":2329,"_2330":4601},"00:15:55.060",{"_20":4589,"_90":2329,"_2330":4603},"00:15:57.380",{"_20":4597,"_90":2329,"_2330":4605},"00:16:06.280",{"_20":4607,"_90":268,"_269":4608,"_277":4638,"_279":280},"97127b0b5df8",[4609,4614,4617,4622,4625,4630,4633],{"_20":4610,"_90":273,"_274":4611,"_141":4613},"26ca1aea90b5",[4612],"175ad11","So the maturity model around customer success",{"_20":4615,"_90":273,"_274":4616,"_141":2313},"baa57b0b9913",[],{"_20":4618,"_90":273,"_274":4619,"_141":4621},"e8ecdc5cc4d8",[4620],"ae41656","is one that you guys can adopt today.",{"_20":4623,"_90":273,"_274":4624,"_141":2313},"5fbe10520e5e",[],{"_20":4626,"_90":273,"_274":4627,"_141":4629},"43d8c5c1cc5a",[4628],"52d5bd0","So reactive is what's happening right now.",{"_20":4631,"_90":273,"_274":4632,"_141":2313},"e742324e033a",[],{"_20":4634,"_90":273,"_274":4635,"_141":4637},"f125a1f37cfd",[4636],"862a595","Customer complaint comes in or something happens within the product, I'm reacting to that moment.",[4639,4641,4643,4645],{"_20":4612,"_90":2329,"_2330":4640},"00:16:12.120",{"_20":4620,"_90":2329,"_2330":4642},"00:16:15.660",{"_20":4628,"_90":2329,"_2330":4644},"00:16:17.500",{"_20":4636,"_90":2329,"_2330":4646},"00:16:19.900",{"_20":4648,"_90":268,"_269":4649,"_277":4655,"_279":1717},"663b6c6c897e",[4650],{"_20":4651,"_90":273,"_274":4652,"_141":4654},"53a70b56db2b",[4653],"8a8251a","The key here is to get to a place of proactive communication as quickly as possible.",[4656],{"_20":4653,"_90":2329,"_2330":4657},"00:16:25.940",{"_20":4659,"_90":268,"_269":4660,"_277":4690,"_279":280},"deb2e0d32e2d",[4661,4666,4669,4674,4677,4682,4685],{"_20":4662,"_90":273,"_274":4663,"_141":4665},"ee80cb5977f4",[4664],"04086de","That golden path as an example is going to be key.",{"_20":4667,"_90":273,"_274":4668,"_141":2313},"2e5e840f8a4b",[],{"_20":4670,"_90":273,"_274":4671,"_141":4673},"e249478dfd6a",[4672],"c940d31","So that when that veering off of that golden path happens",{"_20":4675,"_90":273,"_274":4676,"_141":2313},"b068c8dfc548",[],{"_20":4678,"_90":273,"_274":4679,"_141":4681},"2093ce06b829",[4680],"67c89c2","that there is something, some communication that's happening.",{"_20":4683,"_90":273,"_274":4684,"_141":2313},"370878ce5e59",[],{"_20":4686,"_90":273,"_274":4687,"_141":4689},"98ff4e32000e",[4688],"09895d9","Again, whether it's the founder, whether it's some sort of communication, 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is",{"_20":4759,"_90":273,"_274":4760,"_141":2313},"807c3efcb54c",[],{"_20":4762,"_90":273,"_274":4763,"_141":4765},"e5772e223505",[4764],"b040da6","they're doing something in the product that means that they're likely to expand or use more of our product as well.",{"_20":4767,"_90":273,"_274":4768,"_141":2313},"bb52871e3e11",[],{"_20":4770,"_90":273,"_274":4771,"_141":4773},"3ac5b57bb1e1",[4772],"84a6e71","But again, you want to be much more in the driver's seat and not just reactive there.",[4775,4777,4779],{"_20":4756,"_90":2329,"_2330":4776},"00:17:00.360",{"_20":4764,"_90":2329,"_2330":4778},"00:17:02.279",{"_20":4772,"_90":2329,"_2330":4780},"00:17:07.480",{"_20":4782,"_90":268,"_269":4783,"_277":4805,"_279":280},"b7f3be1ca3ea",[4784,4789,4792,4797,4800],{"_20":4785,"_90":273,"_274":4786,"_141":4788},"62d650296e96",[4787],"7eb0048","And then the holy grail is being much more 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Customer Success in the Age of AI

Speakers