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We help you stay ahead with the hottest resources, latest product updates, and top job opportunities from the community. Don’t miss out—subscribe now.","markDefs",[],"style","normal","file","Subscribe Now","library","name","Subscribe to Heavybit Updates","override","excerpt",[287],{"_20":288,"_90":266,"_267":289,"_275":294,"_277":278},"a6e929c55732",[290],{"_20":291,"_90":271,"_272":292,"_141":293},"a6e929c557320",[],"We brought together a group of developer relations experts to discuss how they’ve built and maintained vibrant, active developer communities for their orgs.",[],"filmedOn","2019-11-19",{"_24":298,"_671":672},[299,323,654],{"_300":301,"_310":311,"_127":312,"_313":314,"_315":316,"_317":318,"_319":320,"_32":321,"_322":245},"content",[302],{"_20":303,"_90":266,"_267":304,"_275":309,"_277":278},"9ad1b52e511c",[305],{"_20":306,"_90":271,"_272":307,"_141":308},"9ad1b52e511c0",[],"Tamao Nakahara offers examples of how, at New Relic, Pivotal and VMware’s Cloud Foundry, she built user engagement campaigns and supported champions programs via cultivated incentives. She explains how you can build a sustainable and ROI-focused evangelism team and champion program, all while managing the pressures of a tough market, with authentic content and increased reach.",[],"duration",1936.467867,"https://image.mux.com/irQwo1DN4oZ2Qb4H2alRo5efxwOPCq7y/thumbnail.png","objectID","video-2369","poster","mux","publishDate","2016-04-26T10:51:46","slug","building-successful-developer-communities","Building Successful Developer Communities","typeName",{"_300":324,"_310":647,"_127":648,"_313":649,"_317":650,"_319":651,"_32":652,"_322":653},[325,334,342,350,358,366,386,395,403,415,423,431,439,450,458,466,474,482,490,498,517,525,533,541,549,557,576,589,601,613,621,629],{"_20":326,"_90":266,"_267":327,"_275":333,"_277":278},"f39b67512180",[328],{"_20":329,"_90":271,"_272":330,"_141":332},"f39b675121800",[331],"em","As end-users and increasingly purchasing decision-makers, developers are an important audience for DevTools software teams. In this post from Devada, Chief Technologist Jesse Davis shares why communities are a critical part of any developer tool’s marketing strategy.",[],{"_20":335,"_90":266,"_267":336,"_275":341,"_277":278},"e685b196fccc",[337],{"_20":338,"_90":271,"_272":339,"_141":340},"e685b196fccc0",[],"What motivates software developers each day? What is the key to unlocking their productivity and engagement? If you employ, work with, or depend on developers, you need to know what motivates these key members of your staff.",[],{"_20":343,"_90":266,"_267":344,"_275":349,"_277":278},"bbe8fb94793b",[345],{"_20":346,"_90":271,"_272":347,"_141":348},"bbe8fb94793b0",[],"Developers find that “contributing to community” is just as important as “making lots of money” according to a 2018 Evans Data survey. While this may be a surprising statistic to some, it makes a lot of sense when you understand how developers master their craft.",[],{"_20":351,"_90":266,"_267":352,"_275":357,"_277":278},"406ebfb2f86f",[353],{"_20":354,"_90":271,"_272":355,"_141":356},"406ebfb2f86f0",[],"Future developers typically go to college and get a degree or attend boot camps and learn on your own. No matter which path you take there is one common thread: you get help from other developers. Everyone has their Yoda that they ask questions to, and this apprenticeship is something that every developer experiences; it’s part of how they become good at their craft. After they know enough to help more junior developers, they jump at the chance to give back to others and share the knowledge that they’ve gained.",[],{"_20":359,"_90":266,"_267":360,"_275":365,"_277":278},"ef50aca807fe",[361],{"_20":362,"_90":271,"_272":363,"_141":364},"ef50aca807fe0",[],"It’s also important to understand how critical developers are in today’s world. While I’m not a fan of the term “digital transformation” I certainly believe that it’s a real trend: nearly every company is becoming a software company. Websites and mobile apps are essential to doing business and require developers to make those happen; developers’ contributions are fundamental to the world’s ability to do business and maximize our potential.",[],{"_20":367,"_90":266,"_267":368,"_275":382,"_277":278},"733b558ebe27",[369,373,378],{"_20":370,"_90":271,"_272":371,"_141":372},"733b558ebe270",[],"So, why do I use the word “tribe”? Let’s take a look at the definition in the book “Tribes” by Seth Godin: “A group needs only two things to be a tribe: ",{"_20":374,"_90":271,"_272":375,"_141":377},"733b558ebe271",[376],"aeb528b452ae","a shared interest and a way to communicate.",{"_20":379,"_90":271,"_272":380,"_141":381},"733b558ebe272",[],"” This makes sense – developers are connected by the desire to advance technology through software and we communicate over the internet (chat, online communities, etc.) so the definition really does fit! Another reason I use the word tribe is that we act like one: 4 out of 5 developers feel a sense of kinship or connection to other developers — even when a developer works for a competitor (Evans Data Corp. 2017). Sharing code and helping others is part of a Developer’s DNA – and provides a path forward in addressing some of the thorniest issues impacting companies that depend on developers’ talents.",[383],{"_20":376,"_90":30,"_384":385},"href","https://www.ted.com/talks/seth_godin_the_tribes_we_lead",{"_20":387,"_90":266,"_267":388,"_275":393,"_277":394},"fc323a323cd9",[389],{"_20":390,"_90":271,"_272":391,"_141":392},"fc323a323cd90",[],"The Global Developer Pool is Growing Faster, But Needs More Support Than Ever",[],"h2",{"_20":396,"_90":266,"_267":397,"_275":402,"_277":278},"5a72e8d9a551",[398],{"_20":399,"_90":271,"_272":400,"_141":401},"5a72e8d9a5510",[],"Before I launch into why we need to strengthen the tribe, let’s look at a few numbers:",[],{"_20":404,"_90":266,"_267":405,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":414,"_277":278},"e0db30ebab3b",[406],{"_20":407,"_90":271,"_272":408,"_141":409},"e0db30ebab3b0",[],"There are about 23 million developers in the world today. The number is expected to rise to 27 million by 2023. A higher percentage of that growth is happening in India and China, and these countries will have the largest developer populations in 5 years. (Evans Data Corp. 2018)","level",1,"listItem","bullet",[],{"_20":416,"_90":266,"_267":417,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":422,"_277":278},"9dc828d285ff",[418],{"_20":419,"_90":271,"_272":420,"_141":421},"9dc828d285ff0",[],"Half of all developers have been coding for less than five years. (Evans Data Corp 2018).",[],{"_20":424,"_90":266,"_267":425,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":430,"_277":278},"78aa386eec7c",[426],{"_20":427,"_90":271,"_272":428,"_141":429},"78aa386eec7c0",[],"42% of developer time worldwide is spent on tech debt and bugs instead of being spent on innovation. (Stripe)",[],{"_20":432,"_90":266,"_267":433,"_275":438,"_277":278},"6f6447c76fe2",[434],{"_20":435,"_90":271,"_272":436,"_141":437},"6f6447c76fe20",[],"Employers as diverse as academia, the military, and media are increasingly dependent on employees with coding skills. (Forbes)\nThere’s a disturbing trend here: the developer pool is growing globally to meet the demand for talent (which is great); however, that will introduce a large number of inexperienced developers into the market.",[],{"_20":440,"_90":266,"_267":441,"_275":447,"_277":278},"1122a0e66172",[442],{"_20":443,"_90":271,"_272":444,"_141":446},"1122a0e661720",[445],"c341ee8b80ce","That’s where the developer community comes into play.",[448],{"_20":445,"_90":30,"_384":449},"/library/video/building-vibrant-developer-communities",{"_20":451,"_90":266,"_267":452,"_275":457,"_277":394},"f9f86e9b4b2d",[453],{"_20":454,"_90":271,"_272":455,"_141":456},"f9f86e9b4b2d0",[],"Developers Have Always Been Community-Minded",[],{"_20":459,"_90":266,"_267":460,"_275":465,"_277":278},"627f806d7dec",[461],{"_20":462,"_90":271,"_272":463,"_141":464},"627f806d7dec0",[],"Programming pioneer Grace Hopper used to ship sample code on magnetic tapes to everyone who ordered a UNIVAC. More importantly, she encouraged them to make changes, add new programs, and ship them back so she could share with others. This is the first example of someone making sure that developers were engaged and able to use a system quickly, greatly enhancing what we call “time to hello world” – this was the first developer community!",[],{"_20":467,"_90":266,"_267":468,"_275":473,"_277":278},"e7f70fdd4b05",[469],{"_20":470,"_90":271,"_272":471,"_141":472},"e7f70fdd4b050",[],"IBM took a completely different path: they made customers pay for the operating system when they ordered their early machines. This gave rise to the SHARE community (share.org). The volunteer organization created the first open-source operating system for early IBM machines – and that community has been sharing software since 1955, proving that software developers have deep roots in sharing and working together to solve big problems.",[],{"_20":475,"_90":266,"_267":476,"_275":481,"_277":278},"e0214d5c84e3",[477],{"_20":478,"_90":271,"_272":479,"_141":480},"e0214d5c84e30",[],"At their core, developers just want to do their work quickly and effectively which is why they don’t see corporate boundaries as an issue when helping each other out. Constantly reinventing the wheel when you hit a coding hurdle will kill your productivity, so in order to keep up with faster release cycles, we definitely need to encourage sharing in online communities!",[],{"_20":483,"_90":266,"_267":484,"_275":489,"_277":394},"6c22602f2d12",[485],{"_20":486,"_90":271,"_272":487,"_141":488},"6c22602f2d120",[],"Developer Communities Are Essential to DevTools Startup Growth",[],{"_20":491,"_90":266,"_267":492,"_275":497,"_277":278},"d302fcdcea1b",[493],{"_20":494,"_90":271,"_272":495,"_141":496},"d302fcdcea1b0",[],"Most enterprise-sized tech companies have figured out that building a community is critical to helping spread the use of their software or platform. 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Getting developers productive in the first 20 minutes of using your platform is essential to developing long-term advocates for your products.",[515],{"_20":508,"_90":30,"_384":516},"/library/blog/developer-support-best-practices/",{"_20":518,"_90":266,"_267":519,"_275":524,"_277":278},"e2b71ca5fa81",[520],{"_20":521,"_90":271,"_272":522,"_141":523},"e2b71ca5fa810",[],"Developers say community helps them write high-quality code faster.",[],{"_20":526,"_90":266,"_267":527,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":532,"_277":278},"e8b36ebdfdcf",[528],{"_20":529,"_90":271,"_272":530,"_141":531},"e8b36ebdfdcf0",[],"31% of developers cite improved code quality when actively involved in a community.",[],{"_20":534,"_90":266,"_267":535,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":540,"_277":278},"ab99555ab9a9",[536],{"_20":537,"_90":271,"_272":538,"_141":539},"ab99555ab9a90",[],"77% of developers cite reduced time to implementation when actively involved in a community. (Evans, 2017)",[],{"_20":542,"_90":266,"_267":543,"_275":548,"_277":394},"85be30c654d0",[544],{"_20":545,"_90":271,"_272":546,"_141":547},"85be30c654d00",[],"3 Key Aspects of Developer Community Building",[],{"_20":550,"_90":266,"_267":551,"_275":556,"_277":278},"a43b27d4921d",[552],{"_20":553,"_90":271,"_272":554,"_141":555},"a43b27d4921d0",[],"Some of you reading this might be thinking, “We’ve got this box checked. We’ve got searchable documentation, and a solid wiki – we’re good.’’",[],{"_20":558,"_90":266,"_267":559,"_275":573,"_277":278},"d3277721dc7b",[560,564,569],{"_20":561,"_90":271,"_272":562,"_141":563},"d3277721dc7b0",[],"Yes, having good documentation is great, but that’s level zero. If you want a highly-engaged army of developers advocating for your products, ",{"_20":565,"_90":271,"_272":566,"_141":568},"d3277721dc7b1",[567],"59f44350a357","you’re going to have to do more than that",{"_20":570,"_90":271,"_272":571,"_141":572},"d3277721dc7b2",[],".",[574],{"_20":567,"_90":30,"_384":575},"/library/blog/building-blocks-for-an-innovative-and-inclusive-developer-community-part-1/",{"_20":577,"_90":266,"_267":578,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":588,"_277":278},"2e82e41940d3",[579,584],{"_20":580,"_90":271,"_272":581,"_141":583},"2e82e41940d30",[582],"strong","Build your own vibrant, online community",{"_20":585,"_90":271,"_272":586,"_141":587},"2e82e41940d31",[]," – For internal use, external use, or both. Make it interactive and intuitive and award the top contributors (internal and external). Encourage ideas and let people know where those ideas stand. Make it a community your users and employees turn to before they turn to each other, blast a Slack message, or post online.",[],{"_20":590,"_90":266,"_267":591,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":600,"_277":278},"c618d9e64b8c",[592,596],{"_20":593,"_90":271,"_272":594,"_141":595},"c618d9e64b8c0",[582],"Nurture developers in your local community",{"_20":597,"_90":271,"_272":598,"_141":599},"c618d9e64b8c1",[]," – Are your developers actively mentoring others in the community, attending MeetUps, or hosting them? Encourage community participation by partnering with the developers in your neck of the woods – go local!",[],{"_20":602,"_90":266,"_267":603,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":612,"_277":278},"1c5925367c3d",[604,608],{"_20":605,"_90":271,"_272":606,"_141":607},"1c5925367c3d0",[582],"Think about tomorrow’s developers",{"_20":609,"_90":271,"_272":610,"_141":611},"1c5925367c3d1",[]," – Consider what you can do for the next generation of developers. Whether sponsoring a Girls Who Code event, or other STEM activities, helping children get excited about developer careers is really important.",[],{"_20":614,"_90":266,"_267":615,"_275":620,"_277":278},"e7117bc22a91",[616],{"_20":617,"_90":271,"_272":618,"_141":619},"e7117bc22a910",[],"After all, it’s going to take the whole tribe working together to meet the world’s need for developers.",[],{"_20":622,"_90":266,"_267":623,"_275":628,"_277":278},"950352227aa1",[624],{"_20":625,"_90":271,"_272":626,"_141":627},"950352227aa12",[],"",[],{"_20":630,"_90":266,"_267":631,"_275":644,"_277":278},"902c5a2e1d47",[632,636,641],{"_20":633,"_90":271,"_272":634,"_141":635},"902c5a2e1d470",[331],"This post originally appeared on Devada as ",{"_20":637,"_90":271,"_272":638,"_141":640},"902c5a2e1d471",[331,639],"0b9a57a0735c","Raising a Tribe of Developers",{"_20":642,"_90":271,"_272":643,"_141":572},"902c5a2e1d472",[331],[645],{"_20":639,"_90":30,"_384":646},"https://devada.com/developers-helping-developers/",8,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/55f2a16d1094b911909f14be543e581e31c2d699-800x300.jpg","blog-post-12934","2020-03-05T10:02:55","developer-community-startup-growth","Why Developer Communities are Essential for DevTools Startup Growth","blogArticle",{"_300":655,"_310":664,"_127":665,"_313":666,"_317":667,"_319":668,"_32":669,"_322":670},[656],{"_20":657,"_90":266,"_267":658,"_275":663,"_277":278},"1a8031aa9211",[659],{"_20":660,"_90":271,"_272":661,"_141":662},"b1b1a99452b2",[],"In episode 26 of Open Source Ready, Brian Douglas and John McBride sit down with Quinn Slack. They explore how Sourcegraph built Amp, why unconstrained coding agents represent a major shift, and why AI economics make traditional SaaS pricing impossible. Quinn also breaks down the rise of open source models, the future of developer tooling, and why ads might be the key to making AI accessible to everyone.",[],"47:25","https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/79201f7b95d6f360cc0df6a5a8678b607df6d5ed-3000x3000.jpg","3da30fab-95d0-49dc-870a-c34423d1eb02","2025-11-24T08:10:00.000Z","open-source-ready/ep-26-the-economics-of-ai-coding-with-quinn-slack","Open Source Ready Ep. #26, The Economics of AI Coding with Quinn Slack","podcastEpisode","recent",[673,1283,1716],{"_300":674,"_310":1277,"_127":1278,"_313":1279,"_317":1280,"_319":1281,"_32":1282,"_322":653},[675,683,713,742,746,761,769,788,807,815,823,831,861,869,877,885,893,912,931,939,947,974,992,1008,1016,1024,1032,1040,1048,1056,1086,1094,1102,1110,1118,1126,1134,1142,1183,1213,1221,1229,1245,1253,1269],{"_20":676,"_90":266,"_267":677,"_275":682,"_277":394},"f09e9612ef15",[678],{"_20":679,"_90":271,"_272":680,"_141":681},"85de00f41251",[],"Why Code-as-Text Doesn’t Work for Genuine Understanding",[],{"_20":684,"_90":266,"_267":685,"_275":708,"_277":278},"4b5755f9b8bc",[686,690,695,699,704],{"_20":687,"_90":271,"_272":688,"_141":689},"adc4d52ad4cd",[],"Major engineering orgs claim that as much as ",{"_20":691,"_90":271,"_272":692,"_141":694},"d1aebf2378c0",[693],"afe823ab102f","30%",{"_20":696,"_90":271,"_272":697,"_141":698},"47cf0e8a331c",[]," to ",{"_20":700,"_90":271,"_272":701,"_141":703},"a7022507758b",[702],"8042bdcd04fd","75%",{"_20":705,"_90":271,"_272":706,"_141":707},"70dd8d1c5fc1",[]," of their new code is AI-generated, which does nothing to help the ongoing challenges of first-time onboarding for codebases and the updating of existing codebases for newly-hired engineers and growing teams (as well as for agentic coding assistants).",[709,711],{"_20":693,"_90":30,"_384":710},"https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/29/microsoft-ceo-says-up-to-30-of-the-companys-code-was-written-by-ai/",{"_20":702,"_90":30,"_384":712},"https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/infrastructure-and-cloud/google-cloud/cloud-next-2026-sundar-pichai/",{"_20":714,"_90":266,"_267":715,"_275":737,"_277":278},"9b432548c002",[716,720,725,729,734],{"_20":717,"_90":271,"_272":718,"_141":719},"9c50f1246f14",[],"As generating code becomes free, understanding what any of it does becomes much more costly, and updating it becomes significantly more complex. Developer ",{"_20":721,"_90":271,"_272":722,"_141":724},"7aa3b54f64f6",[723],"a50030cc5b04","Vitali Avagyan",{"_20":726,"_90":271,"_272":727,"_141":728},"a0f94686e2c4",[]," asserts that the key to understanding code, particularly code across different languages, is to stop thinking of it as lines of plain text, and to treat it as a relational graph, which is the basis of his open-source project ",{"_20":730,"_90":271,"_272":731,"_141":733},"c66f9ef7a776",[732],"b6ce27c00ce8","code-graph-rag",{"_20":735,"_90":271,"_272":736,"_141":572},"c24ce7265e1d",[],[738,740],{"_20":723,"_90":30,"_384":739},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/vitali-avagyan-a1566234/",{"_20":732,"_90":30,"_384":741},"https://github.com/vitali87/code-graph-rag",{"_20":743,"_90":127,"_92":744},"c9d37b6922a5",{"_94":745,"_90":96},"image-bc24d7b1e62740bb7448a1a80a9dfd59940c68d6-3840x1100-jpg",{"_20":747,"_90":266,"_267":748,"_275":758,"_277":278},"b80310699127",[749,753],{"_20":750,"_90":271,"_272":751,"_141":752},"a0931bc06a15",[331],"Vitali Avagyan discusses using GraphRAG to parse repos with Memgraph. Image courtesy ",{"_20":754,"_90":271,"_272":755,"_141":757},"5ef047d4ccf9",[756,331],"5b72c578e5d1","Memgraph",[759],{"_20":756,"_90":30,"_384":760},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jUTq6nCEY",{"_20":762,"_90":266,"_267":763,"_275":768,"_277":394},"2fc0e81b9ef7",[764],{"_20":765,"_90":271,"_272":766,"_141":767},"4cb4e6406d24",[],"Viewing Code as a Retrievable Graph",[],{"_20":770,"_90":266,"_267":771,"_275":785,"_277":278},"c357da4c0347",[772,776,781],{"_20":773,"_90":271,"_272":774,"_141":775},"b42b4a2c8abb",[],"Avagyan notes that when you hand a codebase to one of today’s coding assistants, it’ll often treat it as a text artifact. “Then, it traverses the code base with a ",{"_20":777,"_90":271,"_272":778,"_141":780},"683e39e682aa",[779],"67f4fbd2fe9a","grep",{"_20":782,"_90":271,"_272":783,"_141":784},"7de49dd818b7",[]," or possibly some kind of agentic search. As you might imagine, that can become inefficient, especially considering some of the questions you might typically have about a codebase.”",[786],{"_20":779,"_90":30,"_384":787},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grep",{"_20":789,"_90":266,"_267":790,"_275":804,"_277":278},"6bfeff21d7b3",[791,795,800],{"_20":792,"_90":271,"_272":793,"_141":794},"2814a2a422f6",[],"The creator gives the example of asking an agent to find the longest nested function call in your codebase. Today’s agents will search through the imports and invocations and do some counting, a task that LLMs aren’t great at. “But if you already have a graph that represents all core relationships between methods and functions, you or an AI agent can just write a ",{"_20":796,"_90":271,"_272":797,"_141":799},"fd7434afa3fb",[798],"40d5a9d1fab0","Cypher",{"_20":801,"_90":271,"_272":802,"_141":803},"850209620fae",[]," query that will calculate it for you in milliseconds.” The creator suggests that treating codebases as graphs in this way can conserve both tokens and time.",[805],{"_20":798,"_90":30,"_384":806},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypher_(query_language)",{"_20":808,"_90":266,"_267":809,"_275":814,"_277":278},"8edb1e48b5a2",[810],{"_20":811,"_90":271,"_272":812,"_141":813},"b5cb7e6813d4",[],"The creator clarifies, “that doesn't mean you should use [text] or [graphs] exclusively. They can be used in conjunction with each other. You can have grep, other types of search, and graph search together. Then, given that the AI has both contexts, it will decide which way to go.”",[],{"_20":816,"_90":266,"_267":817,"_275":822,"_277":278},"55289533b05a",[818],{"_20":819,"_90":271,"_272":820,"_141":821},"494b6d9eb54a",[],"The creator suggests that the project specifically addresses the dichotomy between graph search and traditional text search/grep. “The first part of the project is how you go from code to graph. The second is an assistant that has a context of a graph, but it also has all the tools that typical coding agents or harnesses have. I also use it alongside my other coding harnesses. For some problems, it can find solutions faster and more accurately.”",[],{"_20":824,"_90":266,"_267":825,"_275":830,"_277":394},"cc2e0c67c8ad",[826],{"_20":827,"_90":271,"_272":828,"_141":829},"a7a96359e940",[],"Accounting for Variation Across Languages, Frameworks",[],{"_20":832,"_90":266,"_267":833,"_275":856,"_277":278},"755c01bddb6f",[834,838,843,847,852],{"_20":835,"_90":271,"_272":836,"_141":837},"8cfad1aaed2e",[],"The creator clarifies that precisely mapping codebases to graphs requires a correct build for each framework and programming language. “Even with an underlying technology like ",{"_20":839,"_90":271,"_272":840,"_141":842},"c4f79c67c17a",[841],"d7c41e85c164","Tree-sitter",{"_20":844,"_90":271,"_272":845,"_141":846},"2d414b50c68b",[],", which parses the ",{"_20":848,"_90":271,"_272":849,"_141":851},"ecb02d6d29a7",[850],"249727404c78","abstract syntax tree",{"_20":853,"_90":271,"_272":854,"_141":855},"916d54525867",[]," and gives you all the syntactic relationships, it's not still enough because there’s so much variety between languages and frameworks.”",[857,859],{"_20":841,"_90":30,"_384":858},"https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/",{"_20":850,"_90":30,"_384":860},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_syntax_tree",{"_20":862,"_90":266,"_267":863,"_275":868,"_277":278},"4b92136c2a79",[864],{"_20":865,"_90":271,"_272":866,"_141":867},"916fbfa96bd2",[],"Avagyan’s approach was to unify the variety within a single graph ontology that worked across multiple languages, from which he designed the project to let users map relationships within a monorepo, even those that contain multiple languages (the project currently supports more than a dozen). With such precise relationships properly mapped, users can use Cypher or another query language (or some sort of tool to map natural language to a query language) to query any part of a codebase as a graph, and compare against semantic search.",[],{"_20":870,"_90":266,"_267":871,"_275":876,"_277":278},"a36ee5a77fd2",[872],{"_20":873,"_90":271,"_272":874,"_141":875},"b5e47a104baa",[],"“Obviously, this has lots of benefits. If you ask a question about a specific function or a service with semantic search, it looks at the vector similarity and brings you some functions, some of which may have relevant names, but may not be relevant to your actual query. But using graphs, if you can translate your intent into Cypher (with the help of AI), you can basically pinpoint which function you are looking for.” The creator clarifies that the project also supports semantic search as an add-on to support things like code comments, and that in practice, graph parsing and semantic search tend to be complementary.",[],{"_20":878,"_90":266,"_267":879,"_275":884,"_277":394},"6154d54ed4e6",[880],{"_20":881,"_90":271,"_272":882,"_141":883},"1641bec46e7a",[],"Making Code Graphs Deterministic with AST",[],{"_20":886,"_90":266,"_267":887,"_275":892,"_277":278},"0815be5d9aee",[888],{"_20":889,"_90":271,"_272":890,"_141":891},"6ea22a083826",[],"As he sought to ensure the project yielded reliable graph representations, Avagyan found that asking LLMs to one-shot graph representations didn’t quite work. “[The LLMs] hallucinated some relationship edges and nodes. So, the project uses Tree-sitter parsers for different languages, which give you the basic relationships you can extract from AST as something of a unified way of using any type of language.”",[],{"_20":894,"_90":266,"_267":895,"_275":909,"_277":278},"4ed1d30f3dc2",[896,900,905],{"_20":897,"_90":271,"_272":898,"_141":899},"9a4ee9a258b2",[],"“Obviously, there are so many considerations when you go into specifics, like finding call relationships. Each language has its own specific intricacies, like how ",{"_20":901,"_90":271,"_272":902,"_141":904},"e56a902ff095",[903],"1b1e54e0707e","polymorphism",{"_20":906,"_90":271,"_272":907,"_141":908},"9b109a84fb06",[]," works.” The creator notes that tracking all the nuances isn’t necessarily covered by existing deterministic open-source tools either. What is even more difficult is the runtime behavior of the code. That's why recent efforts have been placed to trace call relationships apparent at runtime and merge them into the same graph with statically-derived ones.”",[910],{"_20":903,"_90":30,"_384":911},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphism_(computer_science)",{"_20":913,"_90":266,"_267":914,"_275":928,"_277":278},"9b53b53a2ef7",[915,919,924],{"_20":916,"_90":271,"_272":917,"_141":918},"84140f1e533e",[],"“And from there, we run thousands of test cases to ensure there are no regressions every time a new functionality is added. Every new functionality or bugfix is accompanied by a handful of new tests.” The creator suggests the project continuously runs more than 7,000 unit/integration tests using ",{"_20":920,"_90":271,"_272":921,"_141":923},"a90a0f3ba6d2",[922],"cb676615c060","red/green test-driven development",{"_20":925,"_90":271,"_272":926,"_141":927},"a3e38bb4ef42",[],". Over time, the combination of hand-built code and agent-powered testing and development has proven to be effective. “At the beginning, I spent so much time on architecting [the project], setting the right relationships, that sort of thing, to ensure the foundation was ‘right.’ But when the foundation is ‘right,’ AI is great at doing the rest.”",[929],{"_20":922,"_90":30,"_384":930},"https://simonwillison.net/guides/agentic-engineering-patterns/red-green-tdd/",{"_20":932,"_90":266,"_267":933,"_275":938,"_277":394},"e71e561bda30",[934],{"_20":935,"_90":271,"_272":936,"_141":937},"8bfe3199c316",[],"Bottlenecks and Resource Management",[],{"_20":940,"_90":266,"_267":941,"_275":946,"_277":278},"2e27e83e6ea0",[942],{"_20":943,"_90":271,"_272":944,"_141":945},"b4e8f24bb41b",[],"The creator suggests that the project is continuing to improve on traditional challenges in graph-based projects, which have historically not always been particularly responsive. “I would say storage has never been a problem. With this project, I spent significant time optimizing the build process of going from codebase to graph. (I actually optimised the build time by more than 5x with a separate repo I built that optimizes user-defined codebase segments against specific metrics like speed within accepted memory constraints. The agent then \"autosearches\" the best code among competing candidates while running the build against the ground-truthed evaluation cases which you or your agents have collected or constructed yourself.)”",[],{"_20":948,"_90":266,"_267":949,"_275":971,"_277":278},"d8236069c0ba",[950,954,959,963,967],{"_20":951,"_90":271,"_272":952,"_141":953},"37e4c8419854",[],"“I would say that a practical use of code-graph-rag is ",{"_20":955,"_90":271,"_272":956,"_141":958},"0f95656bd1a7",[957],"ec14de8b6db9","dead code detection",{"_20":960,"_90":271,"_272":961,"_141":962},"28ed3f1a3a15",[],". If you have vibe coded your repo, or it’s otherwise in a state that you don't know exactly what's happening because there are so many abstractions or code duplications, or that code isn’t reachable. For example, there is a ",{"_20":964,"_90":271,"_272":965,"_141":966},"cba21817906a",[331],"code graph",{"_20":968,"_90":271,"_272":969,"_141":970},"2dd3e29f6f5e",[]," command that will check the reachability of all your code. If some are not reachable, they’re likely candidates [for being dead code and potentially getting deleted].”",[972],{"_20":957,"_90":30,"_384":973},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead-code_elimination",{"_20":975,"_90":266,"_267":976,"_275":989,"_277":278},"623b0301e0bf",[977,981,985],{"_20":978,"_90":271,"_272":979,"_141":980},"c9fdbc40e4d6",[],"“Otherwise, I don't think storage is a problem. The project uses ",{"_20":982,"_90":271,"_272":983,"_141":757},"34da333815d3",[984],"c1ed526f5769",{"_20":986,"_90":271,"_272":987,"_141":988},"da89921f17d9",[]," as a GraphDB and it's really fast, it runs in memory and you can deploy using Docker containers, and that would be enough to deploy locally, and the project has the building blocks for bigger deployments to the cloud. So far, it seems to scale well (people have even graphed the Linux kernel) and I haven’t seen any real degradation in speed when it comes to querying graphs.”",[990],{"_20":984,"_90":30,"_384":991},"https://memgraph.com/",{"_20":993,"_90":266,"_267":994,"_275":1007,"_277":278},"824172ebddac",[995,999,1003],{"_20":996,"_90":271,"_272":997,"_141":998},"7cdd05898655",[],"Avagyan notes that some users come to the project looking for performance and cost gains as well. “Some people claim that the project is as much as 65% more cost-efficient than traditional agentic coding and search, and I can’t verify those numbers myself. I ",{"_20":1000,"_90":271,"_272":1001,"_141":1002},"36ec44554375",[331],"can",{"_20":1004,"_90":271,"_272":1005,"_141":1006},"e051511f75df",[]," say that I’ve observed the project to be very fast, and it seems more fault-tolerant in a way.”",[],{"_20":1009,"_90":266,"_267":1010,"_275":1015,"_277":278},"2cfb4c4a9a81",[1011],{"_20":1012,"_90":271,"_272":1013,"_141":1014},"b8c18965ccb1",[],"“Let’s say the project fails in one Cypher query? Then it can just repeat it, and with that query, you can gain lots of context up front, very fast. And that failure is less costly compared to if AI were to go and perform its own search, realize it was searching in the wrong place, then go to another place...you can imagine how things would accumulate really fast.”",[],{"_20":1017,"_90":266,"_267":1018,"_275":1023,"_277":278},"6a4ddfd50139",[1019],{"_20":1020,"_90":271,"_272":1021,"_141":1022},"847581b898f9",[],"“To be honest, the goal of the project was never cost reduction, but I think it’s a byproduct, since you get the accuracy of a graph and the accuracy of an MCP and agent to invoke the correct tools to query the graph.",[],{"_20":1025,"_90":266,"_267":1026,"_275":1031,"_277":394},"06fc03e6d208",[1027],{"_20":1028,"_90":271,"_272":1029,"_141":1030},"0743e3b412d6",[],"Real-World Use Cases for Graphing a Codebase",[],{"_20":1033,"_90":266,"_267":1034,"_275":1039,"_277":278},"34664692f09c",[1035],{"_20":1036,"_90":271,"_272":1037,"_141":1038},"2b1eaf954306",[],"The creator calls out onboarding new engineers as a key use case for the project. “People tell me that using the project has significantly reduced onboarding times because it can gather information about different aspects of a monorepo codebase and give that directly to new junior engineers.”",[],{"_20":1041,"_90":266,"_267":1042,"_275":1047,"_277":278},"a9bdfd671d83",[1043],{"_20":1044,"_90":271,"_272":1045,"_141":1046},"b0569066d73c",[],"“Since we recently added FLOWS_TO, READS_FROM and WRITES_TO relationships in a graph, it’s now easy to analyze the relationships between microservices in your codebase as well. (I’ve actually been approached by security companies about using the project for security detection use cases across large codebases, which is a natural fit as tracing how data moves through a system is exactly what those relationships capture.)”",[],{"_20":1049,"_90":266,"_267":1050,"_275":1055,"_277":278},"e96ed7f2d62e",[1051],{"_20":1052,"_90":271,"_272":1053,"_141":1054},"e4b2c56f631d",[],"So you can see why companies are adopting the project as part of their onboarding tools. You could use it as an MCP server in Claude Code or any other harness or just use Cypher queries to search your codebase before even starting any agentic exploration. This approach is quick and gives you a really good grasp of a codebase, without getting sidetracked to other areas that may not be as important.”",[],{"_20":1057,"_90":266,"_267":1058,"_275":1081,"_277":278},"b003dd295bbf",[1059,1063,1068,1072,1077],{"_20":1060,"_90":271,"_272":1061,"_141":1062},"2a8e4e8ba899",[],"Avagyan notes growing interest among teams managing heavyweight ERP systems with some flavor of Python, as well as ongoing requests around app development. “",{"_20":1064,"_90":271,"_272":1065,"_141":1067},"fc85ec3d18b6",[1066],"fc884ca87ef9","Dart",{"_20":1069,"_90":271,"_272":1070,"_141":1071},"cee0616ee44a",[]," is already supported and includes ",{"_20":1073,"_90":271,"_272":1074,"_141":1076},"ab660c7a1ffd",[1075],"eb5b74dd23fd","Flutter",{"_20":1078,"_90":271,"_272":1079,"_141":1080},"b630193673be",[]," widget structure.”",[1082,1084],{"_20":1066,"_90":30,"_384":1083},"https://dart.dev/overview",{"_20":1075,"_90":30,"_384":1085},"https://flutter.dev/",{"_20":1087,"_90":266,"_267":1088,"_275":1093,"_277":394},"5a3ea8acd83b",[1089],{"_20":1090,"_90":271,"_272":1091,"_141":1092},"1cd77c6dd0f6",[],"Why Aren’t Enterprises Already Graphing Their Codebases?",[],{"_20":1095,"_90":266,"_267":1096,"_275":1101,"_277":278},"7cbaec07cf9b",[1097],{"_20":1098,"_90":271,"_272":1099,"_141":1100},"52c6bc34d2b2",[],"The creator suggests that graphing codebases is a useful approach for any organization, but the timing might not be quite right for large-scale enterprises that are slow to embrace change. “I believe many companies, including major AI vendors like Cursor or Anthropic, have been experimenting with graph-based approaches, if not for codebase mapping, then for use cases like memory management.”",[],{"_20":1103,"_90":266,"_267":1104,"_275":1109,"_277":278},"a89686ddcbd7",[1105],{"_20":1106,"_90":271,"_272":1107,"_141":1108},"eb00873aac4a",[],"Avagyan notes that those companies may be hitting a stumbling block. “I think one problem companies may be having is accuracy.”",[],{"_20":1111,"_90":266,"_267":1112,"_275":1117,"_277":278},"f2f91f55c9c2",[1113],{"_20":1114,"_90":271,"_272":1115,"_141":1116},"5556895009c6",[],"“You can get really far with one language, maybe with a toy example using a tool like Tree-sitter. But jobs that require you to unify graphs across different languages, and build usable and accurate relationships over top of them, and making sure it can work at scale, that’s different. For example, a monorepo is a living creature that changes every minute: People commit and delete code and so on. So your graph needs to keep up with that. It needs to recalculate [those relationships] with every change, every drop, every addition. The project has a graph updater designed specifically to make this real-time syncing possible.”",[],{"_20":1119,"_90":266,"_267":1120,"_275":1125,"_277":278},"526da0bc67f6",[1121],{"_20":1122,"_90":271,"_272":1123,"_141":1124},"b5c434461aac",[],"The creator suggests that while he spent the better part of a year building a system that could dynamically map and remap graph representations of codebases without significant latency, not every org is on the same page. “Even doing something like this with AI agents will take some time, and will cost internal resources. And people don’t always have patience for these things and may want to see a one-shot solution instead. But I think the approach will get more momentum and I think many companies will adopt it eventually.”",[],{"_20":1127,"_90":266,"_267":1128,"_275":1133,"_277":394},"05e8e1c9fe0a",[1129],{"_20":1130,"_90":271,"_272":1131,"_141":1132},"76872200c049",[],"Learnings from Building",[],{"_20":1135,"_90":266,"_267":1136,"_275":1141,"_277":278},"8c4981547047",[1137],{"_20":1138,"_90":271,"_272":1139,"_141":1140},"58335d9df518",[],"When asked what his most important learnings from the project are, Avagyan offers a few suggestions. “One, which I think is most important, is to just build something for yourself that you would like to have. That's pretty much how this project was born. Because I was dealing with [the challenges of managing a] monorepo, and at first, I just wanted to visualize it and understand its complexity. I looked for solutions to see if there was a good product for me. I didn't find one, so I decided I would build it myself, and after releasing it publicly, it turned to be useful for other people.”",[],{"_20":1143,"_90":266,"_267":1144,"_275":1176,"_277":278},"81d7413fc3b2",[1145,1149,1154,1158,1163,1167,1172],{"_20":1146,"_90":271,"_272":1147,"_141":1148},"321ac6bc0e40",[],"“Second, I would recommend building things from the perspective of thinking about what you do every day and how you can accelerate what you do and be more performant with your tools.” The creator notes another open-source project of his, ",{"_20":1150,"_90":271,"_272":1151,"_141":1153},"9f8ed6fdab01",[1152],"f040745fb71d","Croft",{"_20":1155,"_90":271,"_272":1156,"_141":1157},"630e70cbbe50",[],", as an example. “I’m a VS Code user, but I enjoy terminal as well, so I found myself going back and forth between VS Code, ",{"_20":1159,"_90":271,"_272":1160,"_141":1162},"94d7ac6fa32a",[1161],"3f971d287b17","Neovim",{"_20":1164,"_90":271,"_272":1165,"_141":1166},"e76bcfb5a8f3",[],", ",{"_20":1168,"_90":271,"_272":1169,"_141":1171},"93a91dcf4857",[1170],"2f238ed440f7","Zed",{"_20":1173,"_90":271,"_272":1174,"_141":1175},"1bb94c846e83",[]," and other alternatives. I found myself thinking there should be a better way, so I built a VS Code clone in the terminal with Rust to make it super-fast. I’ve been using it every day myself and I would recommend others try it out.”",[1177,1179,1181],{"_20":1152,"_90":30,"_384":1178},"https://github.com/vitali87/croft",{"_20":1161,"_90":30,"_384":1180},"https://neovim.io/",{"_20":1170,"_90":30,"_384":1182},"https://zed.dev/",{"_20":1184,"_90":266,"_267":1185,"_275":1208,"_277":278},"6869a525750a",[1186,1190,1195,1199,1204],{"_20":1187,"_90":271,"_272":1188,"_141":1189},"30637c109bb6",[],"“Finally, I’d recommend finding a distribution channel for your work. Even the greatest product on earth won’t necessarily be noticed if you just put it on GitHub and leave it there. You need to promote it. I was fortunate enough to have worked with the founder of ",{"_20":1191,"_90":271,"_272":1192,"_141":1194},"6424a1b96d65",[1193],"48182a105088","Daily Dose of Data Science",{"_20":1196,"_90":271,"_272":1197,"_141":1198},"3954a9df1f48",[]," when I was working on my own startup back in 2023. I got coverage for my product in this popular newsletter, which might have been the trigger that helped it ‘go viral’ on GitHub the first time. That said, I have also tried many other channels like Hacker News, LinkedIn and X posts, giving talks (including this session ",{"_20":1200,"_90":271,"_272":1201,"_141":1203},"6f0d56991c70",[1202],"41760ee29615","with Memgraph",{"_20":1205,"_90":271,"_272":1206,"_141":1207},"dd3d4a61f74f",[],"), but eventually, the project started trending again on GitHub organically. I guess it might have to do with the ‘right solution at the right time’ phenomenon.”",[1209,1211],{"_20":1193,"_90":30,"_384":1210},"https://blog.dailydoseofds.com/",{"_20":1202,"_90":30,"_384":1212},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2jUTq6nCEY&t=2s",{"_20":1214,"_90":266,"_267":1215,"_275":1220,"_277":394},"1d6c6865362e",[1216],{"_20":1217,"_90":271,"_272":1218,"_141":1219},"2586e6d9e8b9",[],"The Future of Codebases: Built and Managed by AI?",[],{"_20":1222,"_90":266,"_267":1223,"_275":1228,"_277":278},"ab8bfa185ba6",[1224],{"_20":1225,"_90":271,"_272":1226,"_141":1227},"067bce70e73c",[],"From his experience building the project, Avagyan advises anyone working in a technical capacity to learn how to orchestrate. “Software engineering is changing faster than people think. The ability to orchestrate things will be important no matter what. By that, I mean knowing many different technologies: Their strengths and weaknesses, the scalability of each thing, and when to use what.”",[],{"_20":1230,"_90":266,"_267":1231,"_275":1244,"_277":278},"afb3c879f969",[1232,1236,1240],{"_20":1233,"_90":271,"_272":1234,"_141":1235},"49750bd53c8c",[],"“For example, in order to deploy applications at scale, you might need a Kubernetes cluster. You shouldn’t have to be a highly skilled DevOps engineer to know that as AI can help you there, but you would need to know ",{"_20":1237,"_90":271,"_272":1238,"_141":1239},"7f5989d240bd",[331],"when",{"_20":1241,"_90":271,"_272":1242,"_141":1243},"56e7f92d1742",[]," to use it, and what the pros and cons are. That will help you to have this overarching, holistic view of what it's like to build a highly scalable software engineering system.”",[],{"_20":1246,"_90":266,"_267":1247,"_275":1252,"_277":278},"dc75d7ad8097",[1248],{"_20":1249,"_90":271,"_272":1250,"_141":1251},"c6a9980c57d2",[],"“You need to understand how the distributed systems work, and the code-graph-rag project fits really well here to help you ask architectural questions and locate potential bottlenecks, like dead code or other opportunities for optimization.”",[],{"_20":1254,"_90":266,"_267":1255,"_275":1268,"_277":278},"628421de9da8",[1256,1260,1264],{"_20":1257,"_90":271,"_272":1258,"_141":1259},"0cc52c592750",[],"“It’s about having this type of ‘systems thinking,’ an understanding of system design architecture and the underlying principles of the technologies. Not just knowing ",{"_20":1261,"_90":271,"_272":1262,"_141":1263},"d4b8c4a82cf1",[331],"what Redis is",{"_20":1265,"_90":271,"_272":1266,"_141":1267},"ad91e713dbfb",[],", but also understanding what caching is and why it’s important. You’re going to need to apply that understanding when you think your system actually needs caching!”",[],{"_20":1270,"_90":266,"_267":1271,"_275":1276,"_277":278},"8eaf5dda166e",[1272],{"_20":1273,"_90":271,"_272":1274,"_141":1275},"7fccb285f275",[],"“So I think orchestration will be important for quite some time, because AI is still not at the level of fully, autonomously orchestrating large-scale systems that will work smoothly and without any problems. We are not there yet.”",[],17,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/28801f05c737cc57c3c04d467a0a54838fc70ad0-1200x630.png","9d8377ac-25e6-47b7-8e40-22ee9a7cb43e","2026-08-27T16:38:00.000Z","understanding-code-by-treating-it-as-a-graph","Is the Key to Understanding Code Treating it as a Graph?",{"_300":1284,"_310":1710,"_127":1711,"_313":1712,"_317":1713,"_319":1714,"_32":1715,"_322":653},[1285,1293,1301,1349,1357,1361,1369,1377,1406,1414,1422,1430,1438,1446,1454,1488,1500,1512,1524,1536,1544,1552,1560,1568,1576,1584,1592,1622,1630,1638,1646,1654,1662,1670,1678,1686,1694,1702],{"_20":1286,"_90":266,"_267":1287,"_275":1292,"_277":394},"9196fa5c1337",[1288],{"_20":1289,"_90":271,"_272":1290,"_141":1291},"daa6967db340",[],"The Unique Challenges of Mobile Compute",[],{"_20":1294,"_90":266,"_267":1295,"_275":1300,"_277":278},"76f45bfec570",[1296],{"_20":1297,"_90":271,"_272":1298,"_141":1299},"6c276d156142",[],"A significant focus in modern AI has been on large language models with billions of parameters. Billions more parameters mean bigger training investment, and presumably, more-impressive performance. But there are emerging use cases for mobile AI inference, like offline mobile text generation and the rise of general-purpose generative models for edge that hint at a growing need for reliable mobile AI performance.",[],{"_20":1302,"_90":266,"_267":1303,"_275":1340,"_277":278},"af0f0de9eaae",[1304,1309,1313,1318,1322,1327,1331,1336],{"_20":1305,"_90":271,"_272":1306,"_141":1308},"bce9edf18932",[1307],"01f586bb19c8","Chris Karani",{"_20":1310,"_90":271,"_272":1311,"_141":1312},"669b28ad0b26",[],", a longtime software engineer with specific expertise working in the mobile space, has built a variety of open-source, mobile-specific AI projects like ",{"_20":1314,"_90":271,"_272":1315,"_141":1317},"8b6f89ec9c39",[1316],"dc8c3118f86c","Wax",{"_20":1319,"_90":271,"_272":1320,"_141":1321},"43437631fed2",[]," and ",{"_20":1323,"_90":271,"_272":1324,"_141":1326},"4fbb11a36374",[1325],"4edd5928711b","Swarm",{"_20":1328,"_90":271,"_272":1329,"_141":1330},"e59bd93b5314",[],", and is now focusing on building a mobile-specific monitoring and release-gating platform ",{"_20":1332,"_90":271,"_272":1333,"_141":1335},"aa0cafd1ebca",[1334],"a7fbf0b65b8d","RYNO",{"_20":1337,"_90":271,"_272":1338,"_141":1339},"4ab51806f777",[]," after observing the unique challenges that on-device inference poses to software performance on mobile.",[1341,1343,1345,1347],{"_20":1307,"_90":30,"_384":1342},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/chriskarani/",{"_20":1316,"_90":30,"_384":1344},"https://github.com/christopherkarani/Wax",{"_20":1325,"_90":30,"_384":1346},"https://github.com/christopherkarani/Swarm",{"_20":1334,"_90":30,"_384":1348},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL9lcmvSs7o",{"_20":1350,"_90":266,"_267":1351,"_275":1356,"_277":278},"6a7d245a9398",[1352],{"_20":1353,"_90":271,"_272":1354,"_141":1355},"d215b9275145",[],"Below, he explains why mobile inference needs a new breed of observability, and why on-device inference may necessitate a different way to think about app development: At the edge, moving inference on-device effectively introduces a variety of new hardware-specific variables, such as device generations, OS versions, and thermal and memory constraints.",[],{"_20":1358,"_90":127,"_92":1359},"68822d00ffc2",{"_94":1360,"_90":96},"image-1dd5e966858d3cb95946cf1b3d940b1c92f2c46a-2030x554-png",{"_20":1362,"_90":266,"_267":1363,"_275":1368,"_277":278},"23fa169cb01d",[1364],{"_20":1365,"_90":271,"_272":1366,"_141":1367},"57f6112d5429",[331],"The RYNO dashboard specifically monitors on-device inference.",[],{"_20":1370,"_90":266,"_267":1371,"_275":1376,"_277":394},"5d05e23e9ffc",[1372],{"_20":1373,"_90":271,"_272":1374,"_141":1375},"d169649fc0a1",[],"How Traditional Observability Can’t Cover AI at the Edge",[],{"_20":1378,"_90":266,"_267":1379,"_275":1401,"_277":278},"1e42fff1e07f",[1380,1384,1389,1392,1397],{"_20":1381,"_90":271,"_272":1382,"_141":1383},"c4f86ecd4a57",[],"Karani explains that as a builder in the mobile space, he initially relied on popular tools like ",{"_20":1385,"_90":271,"_272":1386,"_141":1388},"471e6fe7b6f2",[1387],"f7f739690c4b","LangFuse",{"_20":1390,"_90":271,"_272":1391,"_141":1321},"4d633666c652",[],{"_20":1393,"_90":271,"_272":1394,"_141":1396},"a54412f6e2d3",[1395],"f42d14678a11","LangSmith",{"_20":1398,"_90":271,"_272":1399,"_141":1400},"ad6e4e5ad7b2",[]," for observability, but found that neither provided the monitoring coverage his projects needed. He found himself building RYNO, a flight recorder and release gate for AI in production on mobile, which focuses on privacy, safe execution traces from real devices, and turning production failures into regression tests to improve future releases.",[1402,1404],{"_20":1387,"_90":30,"_384":1403},"https://langfuse.com/",{"_20":1395,"_90":30,"_384":1405},"https://www.langchain.com/langsmith-platform",{"_20":1407,"_90":266,"_267":1408,"_275":1413,"_277":278},"4a79b7587c7b",[1409],{"_20":1410,"_90":271,"_272":1411,"_141":1412},"f0af90a0db90",[],"“The project combines the hardware state with the end AI behavior to let teams debug and figure out why model failures happen when the apps are actually in production,” the founder explains. As an example, Karani cites a team he spoke with whose mobile app that identifies plants out in the wild and diagnoses them for issues.",[],{"_20":1415,"_90":266,"_267":1416,"_275":1421,"_277":278},"f8c80b58c7b7",[1417],{"_20":1418,"_90":271,"_272":1419,"_141":1420},"756f14956665",[],"Over time, the app team noticed negative reviews in the App Store from frustrated users who found the app misidentifying plants, but when the app’s developers conducted the same tests internally, they noticed no errors. “What they didn't realize was that a lot of their users were out using their apps in high ambient temperatures. This causes a variety of issues that the existing tools just couldn't catch.”",[],{"_20":1423,"_90":266,"_267":1424,"_275":1429,"_277":278},"73f032e4b7e8",[1425],{"_20":1426,"_90":271,"_272":1427,"_141":1428},"4a033185569e",[],"“For instance, once inference is running on a phone in production, changes in thermal state, memory pressure, and available compute can change how that workload performs in production. You can see slower execution, memory-related failures, or different behavior from what you saw during testing. RYNO comes in and is able to combine the hardware state with the model output and help teams debug why their models are failing when they're out into production.”",[],{"_20":1431,"_90":266,"_267":1432,"_275":1437,"_277":394},"cc837e4097a6",[1433],{"_20":1434,"_90":271,"_272":1435,"_141":1436},"4be7b5ebf70f",[],"Closing the Loop for Mobile: Ragequitting, UX, and Regressions",[],{"_20":1439,"_90":266,"_267":1440,"_275":1445,"_277":278},"ac1a98cd7c62",[1441],{"_20":1442,"_90":271,"_272":1443,"_141":1444},"cb6169cdaa7e",[],"For consumer-level mobile applications, this type of failure can lead to the ultimate cost: Users ragequitting the app and immediately deleting it. While the founder’s aim is eventually to target optimization opportunities for any edge computing setup, he admits that mobile is his current focus. “In mobile, most apps have a high uninstall rate.”",[],{"_20":1447,"_90":266,"_267":1448,"_275":1453,"_277":278},"09e3da705404",[1449],{"_20":1450,"_90":271,"_272":1451,"_141":1452},"bb84bfa9efca",[],"To avoid grossly inaccurate outputs due to hallucinations, Karani explains that his platform runs AI jobs across five stages: Capture, explain, replay, promote, and release.",[],{"_20":1455,"_90":266,"_267":1456,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":1483,"_277":278},"a3c417f4e89a",[1457,1461,1465,1470,1474,1479],{"_20":1458,"_90":271,"_272":1459,"_141":1460},"14fdc7cba99a",[582],"Capture:",{"_20":1462,"_90":271,"_272":1463,"_141":1464},"aa00c58d638c",[]," Utilizing the open-source, lightweight, privacy-centric ",{"_20":1466,"_90":271,"_272":1467,"_141":1469},"62c5efc259aa",[1468],"39f4350f1285","Terra SDK",{"_20":1471,"_90":271,"_272":1472,"_141":1473},"faaca851a04b",[],", which can be embedded into mobile apps, and is built on ",{"_20":1475,"_90":271,"_272":1476,"_141":1478},"2b5210b4a320",[1477],"12ed0e79639f","open telemetry",{"_20":1480,"_90":271,"_272":1481,"_141":1482},"1cf657c9feb9",[]," to prevent vendor lock-in, and records OS version, memory pressure, thermal state, and records OS version, memory pressure, thermal state, device class, and the compute resources involved in inference, such as CPU, GPU, or Neural Engine where available",[1484,1486],{"_20":1468,"_90":30,"_384":1485},"https://github.com/tryterra/terra-react",{"_20":1477,"_90":30,"_384":1487},"https://opentelemetry.io",{"_20":1489,"_90":266,"_267":1490,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":1499,"_277":278},"6bfe8b8aa55b",[1491,1495],{"_20":1492,"_90":271,"_272":1493,"_141":1494},"531d8bfb8a6c",[582],"Explain:",{"_20":1496,"_90":271,"_272":1497,"_141":1498},"102c1b804637",[]," Utilizing the local macOS app’s ability to plot a visual timeline of device physics and model execution, identifying factors like correlating changes in device state with changes in model execution",[],{"_20":1501,"_90":266,"_267":1502,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":1511,"_277":278},"16a216eace7b",[1503,1507],{"_20":1504,"_90":271,"_272":1505,"_141":1506},"005091edab91",[582],"Replay:",{"_20":1508,"_90":271,"_272":1509,"_141":1510},"6e1f8d5da353",[]," Having captured structured metadata, template IDs, token counts, and the precise physical hardware context at the time of errors, developers can use a replay button to recreate the conditions surrounding the failure to artificially reproduce the same environmental stress for testing purposes",[],{"_20":1513,"_90":266,"_267":1514,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":1523,"_277":278},"64a94ff32346",[1515,1519],{"_20":1516,"_90":271,"_272":1517,"_141":1518},"c2cb193596ec",[582],"Promote:",{"_20":1520,"_90":271,"_272":1521,"_141":1522},"057867fa95b8",[]," Teams can turn a one-off production failure into a structured, repeatable evaluation",[],{"_20":1525,"_90":266,"_267":1526,"_410":411,"_412":413,"_275":1535,"_277":278},"523186127ddd",[1527,1531],{"_20":1528,"_90":271,"_272":1529,"_141":1530},"3f0388696f60",[582],"Release:",{"_20":1532,"_90":271,"_272":1533,"_141":1534},"3802f3236628",[]," From here, the platform connects to a team CI/CD pipeline to run various evaluations on different devices with that specific eval case prior to the next app release to prevent further regressions before they make it to production",[],{"_20":1537,"_90":266,"_267":1538,"_275":1543,"_277":278},"88dd59afe227",[1539],{"_20":1540,"_90":271,"_272":1541,"_141":1542},"6cf15725e554",[],"The founder adds: “A lot of these issues also come in simple OS updates. Everything was working fine, then Apple launches a new update that introduces unexpected changes. And sometimes getting that stress test when you're testing within a controlled environment is difficult. So a lot of these issues can only be caught when the AI is actually ‘out in the wild.’”",[],{"_20":1545,"_90":266,"_267":1546,"_275":1551,"_277":278},"a4d61e87b83e",[1547],{"_20":1548,"_90":271,"_272":1549,"_141":1550},"c63132c0118c",[],"“Sometimes you have to actually catch these failures once they're actually already out there because these systems are so non deterministic. They're not like traditional, deterministic software where you might have a really tight unit test case, so certain errors don’t reach production.”",[],{"_20":1553,"_90":266,"_267":1554,"_275":1559,"_277":278},"51f37cb77d65",[1555],{"_20":1556,"_90":271,"_272":1557,"_141":1558},"9098f81dfbb7",[],"“Because there's 100 million ways that the AI can actually fail. So, one of the best approaches is having this sort of loop that we've created to catch them quickly in production and ensure that they don't persist in the future.”",[],{"_20":1561,"_90":266,"_267":1562,"_275":1567,"_277":394},"6e814b0ff721",[1563],{"_20":1564,"_90":271,"_272":1565,"_141":1566},"07bb1c6dbf0f",[],"Building for Privacy and Memory Optimization",[],{"_20":1569,"_90":266,"_267":1570,"_275":1575,"_277":278},"564424a3cff6",[1571],{"_20":1572,"_90":271,"_272":1573,"_141":1574},"4c7d752edc34",[],"Karani explains that privacy was a key part of the project due to its initial focus on iOS. “We believe that the on-device AI on iOS is some of the best in the world right now. The Apple Neural Engine lets users run these really awesome models. But for iOS and mobile users, privacy is very important. It’s common even for experienced teams to accidentally violate user privacy while trying to collect the debugging context they desperately need.”",[],{"_20":1577,"_90":266,"_267":1578,"_275":1583,"_277":278},"1d35f785606e",[1579],{"_20":1580,"_90":271,"_272":1581,"_141":1582},"8a890a6f2be8",[],"“This is how teams are silently trying to capture model regression with internal tooling. They captured a prompt and its output, and those contain extremely sensitive data, so you end up violating user privacy. To fix that for RYNO, we actually have a ‘never log’ list. No screenshots, no user prompts, no contacts lists, no physical addresses, no chat transcripts.”",[],{"_20":1585,"_90":266,"_267":1586,"_275":1591,"_277":278},"846ca4d16b40",[1587],{"_20":1588,"_90":271,"_272":1589,"_141":1590},"8da126fcdaa0",[],"“We use a minimal telemetry schema. Instead of logging what the user has typed, we log a structured shape and the operational health of the mathematical transaction. We've been using a lot of tools to ensure that teams are able to get the metadata that they need to reproduce these failures while still avoiding violations of user privacy in the process. We think this is super-important for on-device AI.”",[],{"_20":1593,"_90":266,"_267":1594,"_275":1617,"_277":278},"ea0d0888f24d",[1595,1599,1604,1608,1613],{"_20":1596,"_90":271,"_272":1597,"_141":1598},"c484d592a241",[],"Aside from privacy, the founder notes that going lightweight was an important architectural consideration to run successfully on edge. “Because of the memory pressure issues with the ",{"_20":1600,"_90":271,"_272":1601,"_141":1603},"e39d37c1ea2c",[1602],"a281272b15f2","Jetson Linux",{"_20":1605,"_90":271,"_272":1606,"_141":1607},"7c27af004f44",[],", we made a key decision early on to build the core of the SDK in ",{"_20":1609,"_90":271,"_272":1610,"_141":1612},"a74babccffb6",[1611],"a0ea04ccc546","Zig",{"_20":1614,"_90":271,"_272":1615,"_141":1616},"49524083c6a5",[],". This gave us a lot of control over memory pressure and it gave us full control over how we actually want to architect memory use for the SDK, because on-device AI uses a lot of resources on mobile.”",[1618,1620],{"_20":1602,"_90":30,"_384":1619},"https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-linux-r3643",{"_20":1611,"_90":30,"_384":1621},"https://ziglang.org/",{"_20":1623,"_90":266,"_267":1624,"_275":1629,"_277":278},"e379b830e1eb",[1625],{"_20":1626,"_90":271,"_272":1627,"_141":1628},"090dfbc5e2fc",[],"“So we needed to build an SDK that's extremely lightweight. Because we’re running an observability SDK on constrained hardware, it would need to stay lightweight enough to not create another source of memory pressure competing against the model it’s observing. We think that for edge AI, debugging is something that is going to become a big problem. And it's totally different from how current tools actually enable teams to receive telemetry.”",[],{"_20":1631,"_90":266,"_267":1632,"_275":1637,"_277":278},"d120d7d1c55e",[1633],{"_20":1634,"_90":271,"_272":1635,"_141":1636},"017f00a9c3a6",[],"The founder admits that part of his inspiration came from his own analysis of the AI space, which increasingly seems dominated by billion-dollar vendors pushing trillion-parameter models. “We believe wholeheartedly that edge AI is 100% the future. Smaller models are improving at a rapid rate. Vendors like Apple and Google keep pumping a lot of money in the space, and we think that the kind of benefits that edge AI provides are undeniable.”",[],{"_20":1639,"_90":266,"_267":1640,"_275":1645,"_277":278},"88259a07d188",[1641],{"_20":1642,"_90":271,"_272":1643,"_141":1644},"007257714f01",[],"“First, there’s privacy. Second, there’s improvements to latency, and third, is cost reduction. As the models keep improving, people are going to start realizing and taking this extremely seriously as we move forward. The space is still very early. But the world I see in the future is one in which we'll have on-device AI everywhere you go. There’s already on-device AI in cars, and we'll have robots that need on-device AI, for television, mobile, and so on.”",[],{"_20":1647,"_90":266,"_267":1648,"_275":1653,"_277":278},"fa06d141f9b1",[1649],{"_20":1650,"_90":271,"_272":1651,"_141":1652},"8c15a64289b3",[],"“Yes, the Cloud will always be where true intelligence, the larger computational intelligence, lives. But more and more companies are going to keep moving towards leveraging the on-device AI space as we move forward. And I think that's why Apple has also been putting a lot of effort year over year into the Apple Neural Engine and every chip that they release, prioritizing the inference power that they can actually pull out of the on device models.”",[],{"_20":1655,"_90":266,"_267":1656,"_275":1661,"_277":394},"bb08c1e33c67",[1657],{"_20":1658,"_90":271,"_272":1659,"_141":1660},"8225a1eccfb5",[],"Founder Lessons, Enterprise Adoption, and the Future of Compute",[],{"_20":1663,"_90":266,"_267":1664,"_275":1669,"_277":278},"0f1dca34a263",[1665],{"_20":1666,"_90":271,"_272":1667,"_141":1668},"5446dd4a7a6b",[],"For founders looking to build on-device AI products, Karani suggests that his own deep understanding of the space has been fundamental to his progress. “I think having a good understanding of how the hardware state actually works is important. The computation and the OS system attributes during inference time...that’s a different problem space that a lot of engineers need to understand if they're going into the on-device space.”",[],{"_20":1671,"_90":266,"_267":1672,"_275":1677,"_277":278},"2f49784b8a7f",[1673],{"_20":1674,"_90":271,"_272":1675,"_141":1676},"bd75e9744e7c",[],"“Inference is one thing, input and output of prompts is another. But for a lot of these models, you have to understand they're not in a problem space that is similar to running on a large data center in Atlanta with perfect resources all the time. These are models that are running on-device with varying, different pressures in constrained environments. Understanding those environments is key to actually building the right systems for AI solutions.”",[],{"_20":1679,"_90":266,"_267":1680,"_275":1685,"_277":278},"d217ab50b70d",[1681],{"_20":1682,"_90":271,"_272":1683,"_141":1684},"80ee14ec9ff8",[],"On the question of why device-specific telemetry still doesn’t seem to be mainstream at the enterprise level, the founder points back to how the tool ecosystem for edge computing is still in its early days. “There’s a lack of tooling. A lot of the enterprise companies we speak to are concerned over their lack of telemetry and understanding of how models behave when they’re actually out into production.”",[],{"_20":1687,"_90":266,"_267":1688,"_275":1693,"_277":278},"66d1e4b93387",[1689],{"_20":1690,"_90":271,"_272":1691,"_141":1692},"f3f842438cd8",[],"“For instance, we were speaking to a medical company that was trying to launch a very privacy-centric, on-device model to different customers. But what they found is that they just couldn’t risk getting an incorrect diagnosis from the model (and not being able to understand why it happened). Existing tools just didn't cater to them. The space is so early and emerging and a lot of the focus is on cloud models.”",[],{"_20":1695,"_90":266,"_267":1696,"_275":1701,"_277":278},"37063324755f",[1697],{"_20":1698,"_90":271,"_272":1699,"_141":1700},"345027e2fcbe",[],"The founder notes that while high-end cloud models get a lot of attention, they’re also currently leading to a lot of untenable costs. “I think that's what's going to push enterprises more into on-device AI. And as [on-device models] improve, the solutions will become simpler, but we need to provide them with the kind of tooling that enables them to ship on-device AI reliably to their users.”",[],{"_20":1703,"_90":266,"_267":1704,"_275":1709,"_277":278},"8e071c2e06f0",[1705],{"_20":1706,"_90":271,"_272":1707,"_141":1708},"6731a73112cc",[],"Will there be an inflection point at which everything flips from cloud to local? Maybe not. “I think people are going to have a balance of the two. Teams will leverage on-device models for certain tasks and route to cloud models when they need heavy computational work to be completed. I think the future will be a hybrid of the two. I don’t think on-device AI is going to completely negate the need for Cloud, but I think cost and performance are going to push people to try to understand how to leverage a hybrid of the two. And the majority of the work we do today will be pushed to the on-device models for inference.”",[],13,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/b4042cb54ee8f7b7f4ab04864bd8e1cf7a157ff6-1200x630.png","f7ca2bf6-bf0c-4904-aa01-faede655849e","2026-08-25T16:22:00.000Z","why-on-device-inference-needs-custom-observability","Why On-Device Inference Needs Custom Observability",{"_300":1717,"_310":2440,"_127":2441,"_313":2442,"_317":2443,"_319":2444,"_32":2445,"_322":653},[1718,1726,1756,1764,1812,1816,1831,1839,1858,1877,1893,1901,1931,1939,1947,1955,1974,1993,2009,2017,2025,2034,2042,2050,2058,2077,2112,2120,2144,2163,2171,2179,2195,2203,2211,2226,2234,2242,2250,2269,2293,2319,2327,2354,2362,2370,2378,2386,2394,2413,2432],{"_20":1719,"_90":266,"_267":1720,"_275":1725,"_277":394},"7a24ac14d07e",[1721],{"_20":1722,"_90":271,"_272":1723,"_141":1724},"48d3443f20a8",[],"How Can Agents Be the Future if They’re not Reliable?",[],{"_20":1727,"_90":266,"_267":1728,"_275":1751,"_277":278},"ff2d4b14fb40",[1729,1733,1738,1742,1747],{"_20":1730,"_90":271,"_272":1731,"_141":1732},"4b0676b5544d",[],"Some reports suggest that as many as ",{"_20":1734,"_90":271,"_272":1735,"_141":1737},"7633cd943027",[1736],"72307ba313ce","25%",{"_20":1739,"_90":271,"_272":1740,"_141":1741},"103406d76f91",[]," of enterprises have adopted agentic workflows. Isn’t this the era of AI agents? Why isn’t the number higher? Aside from predictable enterprise-level concerns (",{"_20":1743,"_90":271,"_272":1744,"_141":1746},"01325be45d21",[1745],"c2f310fcffb7","49%",{"_20":1748,"_90":271,"_272":1749,"_141":1750},"c145585f2175",[]," of enterprises are reportedly holding off due to security concerns, for instance), agents haven’t proven to be reliable workhorses at scale, particularly for long-horizon tasks. Not yet, anyway.",[1752,1754],{"_20":1736,"_90":30,"_384":1753},"https://snyk.io/blog/agentic-development-lifecycle/",{"_20":1745,"_90":30,"_384":1755},"https://www.forrester.com/blogs/the-state-of-agentic-ai-in-2026-companies-are-chasing-few-are-catching/",{"_20":1757,"_90":266,"_267":1758,"_275":1763,"_277":278},"72359702785e",[1759],{"_20":1760,"_90":271,"_272":1761,"_141":1762},"c805aa2c35cb",[],"Agents still can’t “remember” their learnings from previous successful runs, still hallucinate when their context window becomes full, and still have a number of other issues. Wasn’t the perfect agentic future supposed to feature technical teams commanding fleets of infallible, well-trained agents to do their bidding?",[],{"_20":1765,"_90":266,"_267":1766,"_275":1805,"_277":278},"24ebf08aefeb",[1767,1771,1776,1780,1785,1788,1792,1796,1801],{"_20":1768,"_90":271,"_272":1769,"_141":1770},"0008706ad2a9",[],"Open-source creator ",{"_20":1772,"_90":271,"_272":1773,"_141":1775},"bfecdcdc2d8e",[1774],"f4b6e64c3af0","Mike Hostetler",{"_20":1777,"_90":271,"_272":1778,"_141":1779},"c55ab4189631",[]," believes such a future is possible if systems combine strong guardrails with fault-tolerant infrastructure designed for large-scale deployments. Here, he explains why he built his project, ",{"_20":1781,"_90":271,"_272":1782,"_141":1784},"1b8ae31d51e4",[1783],"b47c6c24e0ab","Jido",{"_20":1786,"_90":271,"_272":1787,"_141":1166},"4ac8dc73cc44",[],{"_20":1789,"_90":271,"_272":1790,"_141":1791},"2f226b078804",[331],"not",{"_20":1793,"_90":271,"_272":1794,"_141":1795},"7c9c7486bda0",[]," using Python, the de facto programming language for AI, but using ",{"_20":1797,"_90":271,"_272":1798,"_141":1800},"be12332c52e1",[1799],"f60c98fe6c05","Elixir",{"_20":1802,"_90":271,"_272":1803,"_141":1804},"1edf6210f9e9",[],", which was inherently designed to support maintainability and massive concurrency.",[1806,1808,1810],{"_20":1774,"_90":30,"_384":1807},"https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikehostetler/",{"_20":1783,"_90":30,"_384":1809},"https://github.com/agentjido/jido",{"_20":1799,"_90":30,"_384":1811},"https://elixir-lang.org/",{"_20":1813,"_90":127,"_92":1814},"4bd56dd08d69",{"_94":1815,"_90":96},"image-734e0114ac063680123b3471dd5f4f588375e8fa-1280x591-jpg",{"_20":1817,"_90":266,"_267":1818,"_275":1828,"_277":278},"b03c891ae9f1",[1819,1823],{"_20":1820,"_90":271,"_272":1821,"_141":1822},"0c2b5b8ee499",[331],"Mike Hostetler discusses how AI is changing the business of building software on the Software Without Borders podcast. Image courtesy ",{"_20":1824,"_90":271,"_272":1825,"_141":1827},"a2615c1217b2",[1826,331],"ea2317db32a8","Software \nWithout Borders",[1829],{"_20":1826,"_90":30,"_384":1830},"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVYqx_FDTPU",{"_20":1832,"_90":266,"_267":1833,"_275":1838,"_277":394},"378419cb6538",[1834],{"_20":1835,"_90":271,"_272":1836,"_141":1837},"b95d6349db96",[],"Resolving Nondeterministic LLMs and Deterministic Algorithms",[],{"_20":1840,"_90":266,"_267":1841,"_275":1855,"_277":278},"87b25977462d",[1842,1846,1851],{"_20":1843,"_90":271,"_272":1844,"_141":1845},"2cb97e117942",[],"Hostetler, a veteran developer and founder, got his start working on the ",{"_20":1847,"_90":271,"_272":1848,"_141":1850},"5df850edc9eb",[1849],"e7748844a8dd","jQuery",{"_20":1852,"_90":271,"_272":1853,"_141":1854},"e6f957aa936c",[]," ecosystem, from which he built a career, a startup, and a lifelong curiosity about technology. He explains that his introduction to Elixir came from a tour of duty working in distributed systems, which inspired him to think through the challenge of being able to run multiple agents with real-world reliability. “I envisioned a future of ‘10,000 agents per human.’”",[1856],{"_20":1849,"_90":30,"_384":1857},"https://jquery.com",{"_20":1859,"_90":266,"_267":1860,"_275":1874,"_277":278},"0609f26003a6",[1861,1865,1870],{"_20":1862,"_90":271,"_272":1863,"_141":1864},"11d3ae480877",[],"The creator notes that his original vision was running 10,000 agents on a single ",{"_20":1866,"_90":271,"_272":1867,"_141":1869},"bd8a2854d8b0",[1868],"f82f2e7f077d","Raspberry Pi",{"_20":1871,"_90":271,"_272":1872,"_141":1873},"3efb34af94bf",[],". In other words, in a resource-constrained environment with no direct access to LLMs. Models were getting better, but capital expenditure from foundation labs continued to skyrocket.",[1875],{"_20":1868,"_90":30,"_384":1876},"https://www.raspberrypi.com/",{"_20":1878,"_90":266,"_267":1879,"_275":1892,"_277":278},"c7d5705ac245",[1880,1884,1888],{"_20":1881,"_90":271,"_272":1882,"_141":1883},"22d5ed497f6c",[],"Hostetler suggests his goal was to make the best of both worlds: Capitalize on the improving performance of state-of-the-art models, combined with performant infrastructure that wouldn’t break the bank. “The intersection of these two ideas is: Agents needed to be easy to build, easy to deploy, easy to orchestrate and coordinate. And then, 20% of your agents could use an LLM as the thinking step. But it needed to be just as easy to build 80% of your agents on what I call ",{"_20":1885,"_90":271,"_272":1886,"_141":1887},"ae3aaa793b3f",[331],"classical AI algorithms",{"_20":1889,"_90":271,"_272":1890,"_141":1891},"c8c502a31d12",[],".”",[],{"_20":1894,"_90":266,"_267":1895,"_275":1900,"_277":278},"5e457368ab04",[1896],{"_20":1897,"_90":271,"_272":1898,"_141":1899},"ed9ee37193c9",[],"The builder clarifies that ‘classic algorithms’ also include logic that predates LLMs: “Everything from a finite state machine to a behavior tree to hierarchical task networks. Video game AI as well as LLM AI. And those could work in concert and then be easily and inexpensively deployable for a user, which gets into the real pragmatic piece.”",[],{"_20":1902,"_90":266,"_267":1903,"_275":1926,"_277":278},"c843c70bed8d",[1904,1908,1913,1917,1922],{"_20":1905,"_90":271,"_272":1906,"_141":1907},"9425a3cff2d7",[],"Hostetler clarifies that despite Jido’s explicit “AI optional” clause, his approach to AI is less skeptical and more pragmatic. “I love the nondeterminism of LLMs. I love pushing those boundaries. Just by happenstance, having put my own open-source project out there, I got to know ",{"_20":1909,"_90":271,"_272":1910,"_141":1912},"9a152e0af025",[1911],"c4b6a4a077f8","Geoff Huntley",{"_20":1914,"_90":271,"_272":1915,"_141":1916},"f8941b7433c0",[]," and tried ",{"_20":1918,"_90":271,"_272":1919,"_141":1921},"b9826d2e81c5",[1920],"cfe50a2150c7","the Ralph Wiggum loop",{"_20":1923,"_90":271,"_272":1924,"_141":1925},"64bca5e784fe",[]," before it was publicly available. Loved it, and had Jido running loops.”",[1927,1929],{"_20":1911,"_90":30,"_384":1928},"https://ghuntley.com",{"_20":1920,"_90":30,"_384":1930},"https://ghuntley.com/loop/",{"_20":1932,"_90":266,"_267":1933,"_275":1938,"_277":278},"103cd73a04dd",[1934],{"_20":1935,"_90":271,"_272":1936,"_141":1937},"9d7796132c04",[],"“But I quickly observed that [with successive loops], you end up compounding quality issues and you run into these challenges.” The builder’s observations led him to start experimenting with combinations of agentic loops and classical, deterministic AI algorithms, based on a self-taught course of study.",[],{"_20":1940,"_90":266,"_267":1941,"_275":1946,"_277":278},"0291b7718207",[1942],{"_20":1943,"_90":271,"_272":1944,"_141":1945},"094ef0d4310f",[],"“I've used my computer science degree more in the last two years than I have in my entire career, which is just so much fun. So I’m not ‘anti-AI’ at all. What I want to put forward is something that lets you use both modes of tooling in the same context, instead of having a ‘developer mentality’ that requires a hard switch between ‘Here’s an agent that has an LLM as its brain’ versus an agent that has a finite state machine as its brain, and you have to build a bridge between the two. Jido makes both into first-class citizens. I knew as an engineer, as an architect, I would want both.”",[],{"_20":1948,"_90":266,"_267":1949,"_275":1954,"_277":394},"8b84eea66041",[1950],{"_20":1951,"_90":271,"_272":1952,"_141":1953},"66b38a3b5c20",[],"How Can Agents Master Long-Horizon Jobs?",[],{"_20":1956,"_90":266,"_267":1957,"_275":1971,"_277":278},"47dc737f6c1e",[1958,1962,1967],{"_20":1959,"_90":271,"_272":1960,"_141":1961},"867bc7833538",[],"Hostetler admits to reading, and speculating about, the news headlines about agents seemingly getting closer to the holy grail of succeeding on complicated, long-horizon tasks in a single, zero-shot run. “Yes, I read the headlines, and I see the ",{"_20":1963,"_90":271,"_272":1964,"_141":1966},"06d1b38bf227",[1965],"2ea1dd0e9cf9","METR reports",{"_20":1968,"_90":271,"_272":1969,"_141":1970},"8b4acaa0ac87",[],". I would say I have hypotheses about the topic, but I acknowledge the limits of my hypotheses.”",[1972],{"_20":1965,"_90":30,"_384":1973},"https://metr.org/time-horizons/",{"_20":1975,"_90":266,"_267":1976,"_275":1990,"_277":278},"8d0acac52e79",[1977,1981,1986],{"_20":1978,"_90":271,"_272":1979,"_141":1980},"2c71dc2a8678",[],"“We see new model drops like the [recalled-and-re-released] ",{"_20":1982,"_90":271,"_272":1983,"_141":1985},"45c1bbef0be9",[1984],"f0386e204d9f","Fable 5",{"_20":1987,"_90":271,"_272":1988,"_141":1989},"1fbdf1ad0724",[],", which can reportedly do a long-running task for eight hours, uninterrupted.” The creator notes that it can be hard to separate reality from hype, but notes that foundation labs may have different incentives than the rest of us.",[1991],{"_20":1984,"_90":30,"_384":1992},"https://www.anthropic.com/news/fable-mythos-access",{"_20":1994,"_90":266,"_267":1995,"_275":2008,"_277":278},"a2cf64eff7a9",[1996,2000,2004],{"_20":1997,"_90":271,"_272":1998,"_141":1999},"eaf492689fdb",[],"“I would think there is a lot of pressure to embed the capability ",{"_20":2001,"_90":271,"_272":2002,"_141":2003},"92183232c806",[331],"behind the walls",{"_20":2005,"_90":271,"_272":2006,"_141":2007},"8058aab96629",[]," of the model; to make Fable better via academic RL, or to have a lot of infrastructure running between the API call and the model itself. You see them pulling in things like their web API tools, and doing everything to make Anthropic a walled garden for any corporate customer.”",[],{"_20":2010,"_90":266,"_267":2011,"_275":2016,"_277":278},"41e706c870c8",[2012],{"_20":2013,"_90":271,"_272":2014,"_141":2015},"14797e507230",[],"Hostetler contrasts the lofty ambitions of foundation labs against his day-to-day work, which requires him to service ERP systems maintained by tech leaders across the country who need reliable performance, day in and day out.",[],{"_20":2018,"_90":266,"_267":2019,"_275":2024,"_277":278},"c04dd4c136d2",[2020],{"_20":2021,"_90":271,"_272":2022,"_141":2023},"840ee6f95b58",[],"The creator suggests starting from a strong harness, but also looking into reliability. “A really concrete step is to start with a very high-quality model harness if I'm going to build my own agent. Yes, admittedly, Elixir’s philosophy is ‘let it crash,’ but you don't really want that to happen in practice. Your focus should be: How do you recover from the crash? How do you deliver high-quality software from that?”",[],{"_20":2026,"_90":266,"_267":2027,"_275":2032,"_277":2033},"5824b8efe53d",[2028],{"_20":2029,"_90":271,"_272":2030,"_141":2031},"16d38849b2d4",[],"“Elixir’s philosophy is ‘let it crash,’ but you don't really want that to happen in practice. Your focus should be: How do you recover from the crash? How do you deliver high-quality software from that?” -Mike Hostetler, Creator/Jido",[],"blockquote",{"_20":2035,"_90":266,"_267":2036,"_275":2041,"_277":394},"5959d9db324a",[2037],{"_20":2038,"_90":271,"_272":2039,"_141":2040},"9adc46734820",[],"Squaring the Circle: Autonomous Agents vs. Reliable Uptime",[],{"_20":2043,"_90":266,"_267":2044,"_275":2049,"_277":278},"b4fc4a69d6f3",[2045],{"_20":2046,"_90":271,"_272":2047,"_141":2048},"e958458240eb",[],"The builder recognizes the gap between LLM-powered agents that often fall down for a variety of reasons and Elixir-based systems like Discord and Pinterest that are expected to provide continuous uptime for millions of users. “Without getting too technical, this really was a key design decision of Jido itself.”",[],{"_20":2051,"_90":266,"_267":2052,"_275":2057,"_277":278},"40ebc9c9d5ad",[2053],{"_20":2054,"_90":271,"_272":2055,"_141":2056},"9b48defee678",[],"Hostetler explains that the project was designed to accommodate both builders of independent, solo agents as well as those building for coordinated, multi-agent use cases. “And also, there’s all the infrastructure concerns for when you go to deploy: Where does it live? How is it persisted? It's persisted with what I consider to be two schools of thought.”",[],{"_20":2059,"_90":266,"_267":2060,"_275":2074,"_277":278},"01a202626a6c",[2061,2065,2070],{"_20":2062,"_90":271,"_272":2063,"_141":2064},"6a69eed46b2a",[],"“The first [persistence story] is that I persist my ",{"_20":2066,"_90":271,"_272":2067,"_141":2069},"be252cd6a312",[2068],"e73f4b0caaf3","BEAM system",{"_20":2071,"_90":271,"_272":2072,"_141":2073},"888079506d54",[]," back to a durable store, like a Postgres database which is centralized. No issue there. And I would say that more than half our users use this. The other key story is what I call the fully distributed, fault-tolerant approach for scale that you get into with the really big deployments, such as WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger. Multi-region, multi-clustered...the big stuff.”",[2075],{"_20":2068,"_90":30,"_384":2076},"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEAM_(Erlang_virtual_machine)",{"_20":2078,"_90":266,"_267":2079,"_275":2109,"_277":278},"52380ad616db",[2080,2084,2088,2092,2096,2100,2105],{"_20":2081,"_90":271,"_272":2082,"_141":2083},"04e742e52dfa",[],"“Jido was geared for [large-scale deployments]. We could get into the specifics of how Jido was created to live within the BEAM itself, but it ",{"_20":2085,"_90":271,"_272":2086,"_141":2087},"7f2912ffef49",[331],"is",{"_20":2089,"_90":271,"_272":2090,"_141":2091},"f38721e57e56",[]," possible. And there are nuances here, too. People come to the project and they sometimes feel like it's overbuilt. Case in point, when you send a message into a Jido agent, we use a dedicated message envelope called a ",{"_20":2093,"_90":271,"_272":2094,"_141":2095},"360df35b7e3c",[331],"Jido signal",{"_20":2097,"_90":271,"_272":2098,"_141":2099},"51665ddc50c6",[],", which, when you're in a single-node use case is really and truly overkill. And yet it's the standard built on the ",{"_20":2101,"_90":271,"_272":2102,"_141":2104},"152bbc74099b",[2103],"0abd3bbf8418","CloudEvents spec",{"_20":2106,"_90":271,"_272":2107,"_141":2108},"ca903e998961",[]," (which is independent of, and exists outside of Elixir).”",[2110],{"_20":2103,"_90":30,"_384":2111},"https://cloudevents.io/",{"_20":2113,"_90":266,"_267":2114,"_275":2119,"_277":278},"46faea6fef5d",[2115],{"_20":2116,"_90":271,"_272":2117,"_141":2118},"e670c10a6d1b",[],"“We do this because you can't have it both ways: You can't have your typical simple JSON payload alongside a robust, enterprise-grade, transport-agnostic CloudEvents envelope and do the same thing. You've got to pick a lane. And so, Jido picked the ‘robust and scalable’ lane. I do work with some teams that are now asking me about the multi-cluster use case. I’m working toward a demo of a multi-region cluster independent of a durable store with resilient agents.”",[],{"_20":2121,"_90":266,"_267":2122,"_275":2143,"_277":278},"8a6207353488",[2123,2127,2131,2135,2139],{"_20":2124,"_90":271,"_272":2125,"_141":2126},"775967e75006",[],"“To clarify, everything I just discussed was ",{"_20":2128,"_90":271,"_272":2129,"_141":2130},"5cfaaca93e88",[331],"outside",{"_20":2132,"_90":271,"_272":2133,"_141":2134},"97a4f29363fe",[]," the agentic loop. ",{"_20":2136,"_90":271,"_272":2137,"_141":2138},"accaff227757",[331],"Within",{"_20":2140,"_90":271,"_272":2141,"_141":2142},"83672844a0e3",[]," the agentic loop of determinism versus nondeterminism, there are guardrails within which Jido has to operate. It can't just go do everything because it was meant for the Raspberry Pi use case. Because Elixir and BEAM can natively cluster, you could easily have a deploy to support a use case for something like, let’s say, Internet of Things (IoT).”",[],{"_20":2145,"_90":266,"_267":2146,"_275":2160,"_277":278},"36dc5918428c",[2147,2151,2156],{"_20":2148,"_90":271,"_272":2149,"_141":2150},"f9f53a4cd67b",[],"“For example, you’re going to have a central cluster that then works with Jido agents that are deployed in an IoT setting that talk back to the central cluster, and you'd have two agents communicating with one another. You could have that modality in a larger deployment. As an example, one of the big successes in the Elixir world is the robot control project ",{"_20":2152,"_90":271,"_272":2153,"_141":2155},"30ba83fa35f4",[2154],"74bfc2d507f3","Beam Bots",{"_20":2157,"_90":271,"_272":2158,"_141":2159},"ac05df5ad6aa",[],", which adopted Jido natively, so we’re seeing use cases for non-clustered low-level IoT all the way up to your typical Claude Code agent harness.”",[2161],{"_20":2154,"_90":30,"_384":2162},"https://github.com/beam-bots",{"_20":2164,"_90":266,"_267":2165,"_275":2170,"_277":394},"6471f5331431",[2166],{"_20":2167,"_90":271,"_272":2168,"_141":2169},"88eb6436d108",[],"How Startup Founders Should Think About Agentic Products",[],{"_20":2172,"_90":266,"_267":2173,"_275":2178,"_277":278},"b02dc08a377e",[2174],{"_20":2175,"_90":271,"_272":2176,"_141":2177},"71c2612c69e4",[],"When asked how he would advise startup founders thinking of launching agentic products, Hostetler offers a handful of suggestions. “For your first level of planning, I would say: Focus on the default. How you define what an ‘agent’ is could be colored by your Claude Code glasses! Make sure that as you're defining an agent in terms of what you bring into your infrastructure, and that you have a tighter, concrete definition of what that is.”",[],{"_20":2180,"_90":266,"_267":2181,"_275":2194,"_277":278},"322cd96a4729",[2182,2186,2190],{"_20":2183,"_90":271,"_272":2184,"_141":2185},"a7c7ebbd0554",[],"“Second, the other mistake that I've seen (and have made personally) is that everybody wants to let the LLM ‘take the wheel.’ At the point when you're designing infrastructure to build a company on, you have to draw clear boundaries between nondeterminism and determinism, and create gates to bring it back and forth. And this is ",{"_20":2187,"_90":271,"_272":2188,"_141":2189},"1ea4bce42d9f",[331],"outside of",{"_20":2191,"_90":271,"_272":2192,"_141":2193},"9510224427a1",[]," the agentic loop.”",[],{"_20":2196,"_90":266,"_267":2197,"_275":2202,"_277":278},"e80672b9d929",[2198],{"_20":2199,"_90":271,"_272":2200,"_141":2201},"61e9e3aed2a8",[],"The creator suggests that customer expectations for agentic projects have grown over time. “After a few years, we’ve seen the patterns that ‘work,’ whether it's natural language or dynamic UI, we know the patterns to create user value and what users expect. The innovation has shifted from, ‘We can do just about anything,’ to ‘The user expectations are pretty much there, so how do you deliver on that?’”",[],{"_20":2204,"_90":266,"_267":2205,"_275":2210,"_277":278},"32013237d35f",[2206],{"_20":2207,"_90":271,"_272":2208,"_141":2209},"95b20553d1ab",[],"Hostetler describes an interesting project a friend built in Elixir that effectively replicated Claude Code’s functionality, but for posting on LinkedIn, using a dedicated agent with a specific ID. “Persistence wasn't dynamically allocated, but the agent would persist, and then it would hibernate and rehydrate when you wanted to edit a piece of content.”",[],{"_20":2212,"_90":266,"_267":2213,"_275":2225,"_277":278},"3309765c1194",[2214,2218,2222],{"_20":2215,"_90":271,"_272":2216,"_141":2217},"6b38e3208d9b",[],"The project let users edit posts normally via the LinkedIn GUI, but also supported giving instructions to a coordinator agent. “The key is, he made that persistent throughout the entire experience. So, no matter which modality you were interacting with, there was a kind of predefined team structure for how the agents would interact with your content. And it just struck me as this really innovative mental leap, that any agentic products I see ",{"_20":2219,"_90":271,"_272":2220,"_141":2221},"302d71f6b276",[331],"aren't thinking big enough",{"_20":2223,"_90":271,"_272":2224,"_141":1891},"5e2c8479951c",[],[],{"_20":2227,"_90":266,"_267":2228,"_275":2233,"_277":278},"f9024ac9c07d",[2229],{"_20":2230,"_90":271,"_272":2231,"_141":2232},"090d9b48e200",[],"The creator suggests that the main challenge he’d offer to startup founders and product owners is to think bigger. “I don't see a lot of product owners thinking about [larger ideas] because they're really stuck in the mindset of, ‘Claude Code is my agent. It can do everything. I have to always use Claude Code.’ I say: ‘No, you really need to break out of that mental model.’”",[],{"_20":2235,"_90":266,"_267":2236,"_275":2241,"_277":2033},"d279075f7c24",[2237],{"_20":2238,"_90":271,"_272":2239,"_141":2240},"1407b21e0ca6",[],"“It just struck me...that any agentic products I see aren't thinking big enough. I don't see a lot of product owners thinking about [larger ideas] because they're really stuck in the mindset of, ‘Claude Code is my agent. I say: ‘No, you really need to break out of that mental model.’”",[],{"_20":2243,"_90":266,"_267":2244,"_275":2249,"_277":394},"8bd22d228d02",[2245],{"_20":2246,"_90":271,"_272":2247,"_141":2248},"febccbe3dad6",[],"How to Think About Enterprise Adoption",[],{"_20":2251,"_90":266,"_267":2252,"_275":2266,"_277":278},"55d44d50b054",[2253,2257,2262],{"_20":2254,"_90":271,"_272":2255,"_141":2256},"140634326dd3",[],"When asked how he would advise ambitious startup founders looking to sell AI products to enterprises, Hostetler draws upon his own day-to-day experience. “I would say that we're early. I would acknowledge the timeline displacement, ",{"_20":2258,"_90":271,"_272":2259,"_141":2261},"60c8c804bc83",[2260],"395e4914b63e","Ray Kurzweil’s",{"_20":2263,"_90":271,"_272":2264,"_141":2265},"940cd7aa0849",[]," riff on the William Gibson quote about the future being here, just not evenly distributed.”",[2267],{"_20":2260,"_90":30,"_384":2268},"https://www.writingsbyraykurzweil.com/the-law-of-accelerating-returns",{"_20":2270,"_90":266,"_267":2271,"_275":2292,"_277":278},"69e3ce55443f",[2272,2276,2280,2284,2288],{"_20":2273,"_90":271,"_272":2274,"_141":2275},"c2cbce688847",[],"“What's happening in enterprises is that there are engineering teams who ",{"_20":2277,"_90":271,"_272":2278,"_141":2279},"8f43979ee05a",[331],"are ",{"_20":2281,"_90":271,"_272":2282,"_141":2283},"7386ba0066ca",[],"using the latest tools, and they're on that curve somewhere. But ",{"_20":2285,"_90":271,"_272":2286,"_141":2287},"80dac42e9497",[331],"the operations teams",{"_20":2289,"_90":271,"_272":2290,"_141":2291},"f3f8661263be",[]," are just starting.” The creator notes that he works with operations teams that are just starting to encounter the same challenges that engineering teams faced 18 months ago: Worrying whether AI will replace them, realizing AI likely won’t replace them, then trying to figure out how to fit into this brave new world.",[],{"_20":2294,"_90":266,"_267":2295,"_275":2316,"_277":278},"d6bdea3ba045",[2296,2300,2305,2309,2313],{"_20":2297,"_90":271,"_272":2298,"_141":2299},"6dbb3fee6f18",[],"“We're early in that phase [where people are trying to find] pragmatic use cases. The issue isn't so much the tools themselves. What's interesting to me is the layer above them, which I wrote about in ",{"_20":2301,"_90":271,"_272":2302,"_141":2304},"e44831398a0a",[2303],"ba5da2cbf968","my blog on orchestration",{"_20":2306,"_90":271,"_272":2307,"_141":2308},"3c012b7e05ac",[],". To me, orchestration is the cornerstone, because there's nothing actually orchestrating ",{"_20":2310,"_90":271,"_272":2311,"_141":2312},"c493d94c2769",[331],"the tools",{"_20":2314,"_90":271,"_272":2315,"_141":1891},"0ddedf4c18ed",[],[2317],{"_20":2303,"_90":30,"_384":2318},"https://mike-hostetler.com/blog/orchestrating-intelligence-why-every-company-will-have-a-chief-agent-officer-y4EQpjr9",{"_20":2320,"_90":266,"_267":2321,"_275":2326,"_277":278},"ffdaf5b669b5",[2322],{"_20":2323,"_90":271,"_272":2324,"_141":2325},"d9fbf1dd4f20",[],"“I think that corporations are set up in silos. Sales isn't talking to marketing, who isn't talking to ops. Ops isn't talking to product. So, the pragmatic things that we need are places to deploy AI experiments, because the thing we've emphasized internally isn't so much AI as an end state, but rather, AI as iteration.”",[],{"_20":2328,"_90":266,"_267":2329,"_275":2351,"_277":278},"86f97ec55b10",[2330,2334,2339,2343,2347],{"_20":2331,"_90":271,"_272":2332,"_141":2333},"9aad627e9643",[],"The creator recounts a story of a team he works with using Claude Code to build a dashboard. In a completely unintended consequence, Claude Code used the Google Workspace connect to deploy the dashboard to Google Sheets via ",{"_20":2335,"_90":271,"_272":2336,"_141":2338},"865280795f71",[2337],"2ed51292aa7f","Apps Script",{"_20":2340,"_90":271,"_272":2341,"_141":2342},"4e0143f6f2a2",[]," to create a public URL via, of all things, a Google Sheets backdoor. “I burst out laughing. There's an entire product ",{"_20":2344,"_90":271,"_272":2345,"_141":2346},"25776a76f3df",[331],"right there,",{"_20":2348,"_90":271,"_272":2349,"_141":2350},"8a472903f3c6",[]," in that space between a non-technical user and a model’s instincts to propose unexpected solutions.”",[2352],{"_20":2337,"_90":30,"_384":2353},"https://developers.google.com/apps-script/overview",{"_20":2355,"_90":266,"_267":2356,"_275":2361,"_277":278},"1afc27d42096",[2357],{"_20":2358,"_90":271,"_272":2359,"_141":2360},"19bdb5bfad0f",[],"Hostetler also points out a strong business opportunity in governance. “During my tour of duty in corporate, I spent two years as a VP of enterprise technology. I managed all the IT and compliance stuff for a publicly-traded company.” The creator notes that “AI governance” could easily go beyond basic compliance frameworks like SOC 2.",[],{"_20":2363,"_90":266,"_267":2364,"_275":2369,"_277":278},"8fe6ad610c6c",[2365],{"_20":2366,"_90":271,"_272":2367,"_141":2368},"9e450b53590e",[],"“Every LLM call in your organization will eventually be proxied and logged. But nobody's doing this at the moment. Think about just capturing it as one problem. Analyzing and fingerprinting.” The creator predicts that sooner than we think, organizations may need to be “AI compliant” with whatever new version of the SOC2 standard that arises.",[],{"_20":2371,"_90":266,"_267":2372,"_275":2377,"_277":278},"ef3eab6b09a3",[2373],{"_20":2374,"_90":271,"_272":2375,"_141":2376},"856e44ea47e3",[],"“Another [enterprise use case] I’d look at is insurance. Cybersecurity insurance with AI, mark my words, in the next two years, that will be a ‘thing.’ And this won’t just be your CrowdStrike-style, on-device stuff. It's all the things that get exfiltrated from what you build. Nobody's talking about that. The strategy there is very immature. Admittedly, this isn’t a very sexy space, but I think there's a lot of money to be made there.”",[],{"_20":2379,"_90":266,"_267":2380,"_275":2385,"_277":394},"8c5c46a705f3",[2381],{"_20":2382,"_90":271,"_272":2383,"_141":2384},"e55bcf804130",[],"The Future of Elixir and Durable Systems",[],{"_20":2387,"_90":266,"_267":2388,"_275":2393,"_277":278},"44f07555baa8",[2389],{"_20":2390,"_90":271,"_272":2391,"_141":2392},"83aa3f705283",[],"The creator is realistic about how his project and the greater Elixir ecosystem figure into the future of software development. “A non-Elixir shop is going to have a hard time adopting Elixir. So I can see Jido becoming an agentic sidecar that eventually makes it easy for TypeScript devs to spin up an agent with Elixir-level durability.”",[],{"_20":2395,"_90":266,"_267":2396,"_275":2410,"_277":278},"dbad934515e7",[2397,2401,2406],{"_20":2398,"_90":271,"_272":2399,"_141":2400},"ddf9d15e994c",[],"“This might be for a market segment that could be ‘one step below’ the ",{"_20":2402,"_90":271,"_272":2403,"_141":2405},"7929d2ffed1a",[2404],"f82cbe3cdbf8","Temporals",{"_20":2407,"_90":271,"_272":2408,"_141":2409},"82c9fc0d6074",[]," of the world. To clarify, I’ve used Temporal before, and it’s fantastic, though expensive. But thinking pragmatically, there are a lot more TypeScript devs in the world. Python will be its own thing. TypeScript devs are going to need an SDK to easily call Jido agents, and then Jido agents will operate async, and it'll just be self-contained with a dashboard to spin it up.”",[2411],{"_20":2404,"_90":30,"_384":2412},"https://temporal.io/",{"_20":2414,"_90":266,"_267":2415,"_275":2429,"_277":278},"b3f069861ce0",[2416,2420,2425],{"_20":2417,"_90":271,"_272":2418,"_141":2419},"7dc862f60a3b",[],"The creator acknowledges that popularly-used languages and frameworks like TypeScript and ",{"_20":2421,"_90":271,"_272":2422,"_141":2424},"a5ab9089e32a",[2423],"cc95782eb602","Node.js",{"_20":2426,"_90":271,"_272":2427,"_141":2428},"05d94911aeac",[]," are excellent for what they are, and that they solve specific problems. “But you need to be able to spin things up inexpensively that companies built on TypeScript can solve either by running in Docker via their infrastructure, or run out of a cloud where they can spin up platforms of agents, with one agent per customer (or dozens of agents per customer).”",[2430],{"_20":2423,"_90":30,"_384":2431},"http://node.js",{"_20":2433,"_90":266,"_267":2434,"_275":2439,"_277":278},"1c459bacc235",[2435],{"_20":2436,"_90":271,"_272":2437,"_141":2438},"4773952f0d8b",[],"“And to be able to do that practically is just going to be overwhelmingly expensive, even with Cloud costs. And you need to be able to stitch it all together, potentially using non-deterministic agents with deterministic agents to deliver a strong product experience. It’s a very early picture, but that's where I see the market now.”",[],19,"https://cdn.sanity.io/images/50q6fr1p/production/a119969ab98a18b0937559865cbc6ee4dee53c2d-1200x630.png","39be2ceb-4600-40c4-80a9-dc0c7b9504dd","2026-08-04T16:24:00.000Z","how-to-make-agents-durable-for-concurrent-systems","How to Make Agents Durable for Concurrent Systems","modules","moreFromLibrary",[2449,2451,2453],{"_20":2450,"_94":314,"_90":96},"57m8tu4so4Ni",{"_20":2452,"_94":649,"_90":96},"E8ZrAVkDsds0",{"_20":2454,"_94":666,"_90":96},"EFPXuwFQmBly","outlines",[2457],{"_20":2458,"_90":266,"_267":2459,"_275":2464,"_277":278},"b2e3a801d1cb",[2460],{"_20":2461,"_90":271,"_272":2462,"_141":2463},"ae00fdcf5b5e",[],"

Building Vibrant Developer Communities\n
- Meet the Panel
- Where Communities Begin
- The Payoff of Starting Early
- Proving Value Beyond Revenue
- Selling Without Breaking Trust
- Champions, Badges, and Thanks
- Failures Worth Learning From
- Audience Q&A
\n

",[],"posterFrame",{"_90":127,"_92":2467},{"_94":2468,"_90":96},"image-0e097b546d6385a31dc4faeb2fe5871e304e6a27-800x300-jpg","2019-11-19T11:33:12","slideDeck",{"_90":319,"_2472":2473},"current","building-vibrant-developer-communities","speakers","speakersWithOrg",[2477,2506,2524,2539],{"_20":2478,"_90":2479,"_2480":2481,"_2488":2489},"spk0rson56","speaker","organization",{"_239":2482,"_241":2483,"_243":2484,"_90":2480,"_246":2482,"_282":2485,"_319":2486},"2026-09-18T20:30:53Z","org-devada","bXkDxvOEdfzf4NR9YxnFFq","Devada",{"_90":319,"_2472":2487},"devada","person",{"_239":2490,"_241":2491,"_243":2492,"_90":2488,"_246":2493,"_2494":627,"_2495":161,"_282":2496,"_2480":-5,"_2497":2498,"_319":2503,"_2505":161},"2021-09-21T21:18:31Z","person-56","Z9vA4vnrsjyW2uZdDJRWlX","2025-08-19T13:26:16Z","bio","generate","Jesse Davis","photo",{"_90":91,"_2499":2500,"_92":2501},"alt","Jesse Davis 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Nugent",[],"startDate","2019-11-19T08:33:00.000Z","tags",[2558,2567],{"_239":2559,"_241":2560,"_20":2560,"_243":2561,"_90":2562,"_246":2563,"_282":2564,"_319":2565},"2022-04-29T20:41:45Z","rec6FbRYYXQeIs6z1","YlxgmKTLxstUdop23VOf6s","tag","2022-06-15T12:10:33Z","Developer Relations",{"_90":319,"_2472":2566},"developer-relations",{"_239":2568,"_241":2569,"_243":2570,"_90":2562,"_246":2571,"_13":2572,"_282":2573,"_319":2574},"2021-09-21T20:59:30Z","tag-53","xOsxlhcvw4vT7qhifo77cX","2022-07-14T18:29:38Z","Discover content that can help you become a better developer-focused marketer.","Marketing",{"_90":319,"_2472":2575},"marketing","Building Vibrant Developer Communities","transcript",[2579,2587,2625,2646,2677,2718,2743,2764,2805,2836,2857,2878,2903,2928,2939,2970,2981,3006,3027,3058,3099,3134,3155,3180,3215,3223,3267,3291,3332,3356,3387,3418,3449,3470,3484,3498,3512,3556,3597,3631,3652,3693,3724,3735,3756,3767,3781,3805,3813,3847,3878,3922,3953,3974,4005,4026,4057,4078,4099,4130,4144,4168,4199,4223,4254,4275,4296,4327,4358,4379,4387,4421,4442,4463,4494,4515,4526,4550,4581,4612,4643,4664,4705,4716,4747,4768,4799,4813,4824,4848,4869,4900,4911,4935,4959,4990,5011,5042,5073,5104,5125,5156,5187,5195,5219,5250,5271,5302,5313,5327,5341,5365,5396,5427,5458,5499,5530,5561,5602,5623,5644,5658,5692,5713,5734,5755,5776,5790,5814,5835,5856,5877,5918,5949,5960,5991,6012,6033,6041,6075,6096,6117,6138,6179,6203,6234,6255,6266,6297,6308,6322,6346,6360,6384,6425,6456,6490,6504,6528,6559,6580,6621,6652,6683,6704,6725,6746,6787,6808,6839,6860,6881,6902,6923,6931,6965,6986,7017,7048,7059,7103,7127,7161,7182,7223,7237,7251,7272,7313,7334,7355,7376,7407,7438,7469,7490,7521,7542,7573,7597,7621,7652,7683,7714,7722,7746,7780,7811,7832,7863,7884,7908,7939,7963,7997,8011,8045,8079,8110,8141,8155,8179,8200,8231,8242,8276,8300,8331,8342,8353,8394,8405,8426,8447,8488,8509,8520,8551,8592,8623,8654,8685,8706,8737,8758,8789,8810,8831,8852,8883,8917,8951,8982,9003,9024,9048,9072,9096,9117,9141,9162,9183,9214,9235,9256,9270,9301,9312,9333,9364],{"_20":2580,"_90":266,"_267":2581,"_275":2586,"_277":394},"84ea588566da",[2582],{"_20":2583,"_90":271,"_272":2584,"_141":2585},"72e32c923216",[],"Meet the Panel",[],{"_20":2588,"_90":266,"_267":2589,"_275":2616,"_277":278},"17f04fad1874",[2590,2595,2599,2603,2608,2611],{"_20":2591,"_90":271,"_272":2592,"_141":2594},"294414ba9613",[2593,582],"dbb0316","Jesse Davis:",{"_20":2596,"_90":271,"_272":2597,"_141":2598},"c70418e52c9f",[2593]," Really excited to be here with you all.",{"_20":2600,"_90":271,"_272":2601,"_141":2602},"b2d8e4878bc7",[]," ",{"_20":2604,"_90":271,"_272":2605,"_141":2607},"7389e2ca16d6",[2606],"53df9bf","Thanks for taking time out of your evening to come to what we hope is a very productive and informative session on developer communities for you all.",{"_20":2609,"_90":271,"_272":2610,"_141":2602},"e02a4dc705dd",[],{"_20":2612,"_90":271,"_272":2613,"_141":2615},"bc3a10806d96",[2614],"ee107fa","It's really exciting for me to spend time with some pretty amazing people in the community space.",[2617,2621,2623],{"_20":2593,"_90":2618,"_2619":2620},"timestamp","time","00:00:09.380",{"_20":2606,"_90":2618,"_2619":2622},"00:00:11.059",{"_20":2614,"_90":2618,"_2619":2624},"00:00:18.740",{"_20":2626,"_90":266,"_267":2627,"_275":2641,"_277":278},"2b96be66af68",[2628,2633,2636],{"_20":2629,"_90":271,"_272":2630,"_141":2632},"e54c300d91cb",[2631],"e804c02","The panel that I have up here, colleagues in the space and even friends.",{"_20":2634,"_90":271,"_272":2635,"_141":2602},"06f863e35d00",[],{"_20":2637,"_90":271,"_272":2638,"_141":2640},"3598f6b3fa1f",[2639],"2b5415c","So you'll get a lively discussion and hopefully a lot of information that you can take back and help you make decisions as you build out your own developer communities.",[2642,2644],{"_20":2631,"_90":2618,"_2619":2643},"00:00:24.500",{"_20":2639,"_90":2618,"_2619":2645},"00:00:28.520",{"_20":2647,"_90":266,"_267":2648,"_275":2670,"_277":278},"b8ae654a6654",[2649,2654,2657,2662,2665],{"_20":2650,"_90":271,"_272":2651,"_141":2653},"a51ab5cdf868",[2652],"9b3eeed","My name is Jesse Davis. I run a development team, head of product at a company called Devada.",{"_20":2655,"_90":271,"_272":2656,"_141":2602},"48583c09153d",[],{"_20":2658,"_90":271,"_272":2659,"_141":2661},"e2289da63091",[2660],"313ffc8","It's funny, I started out my career as a developer and developed software for a long time.",{"_20":2663,"_90":271,"_272":2664,"_141":2602},"3a933c243271",[],{"_20":2666,"_90":271,"_272":2667,"_141":2669},"cf5c9f34f371",[2668],"83d7c9f","And recently I get to wake up every day and help the lives of developers all over the world better by building great communities.",[2671,2673,2675],{"_20":2652,"_90":2618,"_2619":2672},"00:00:36.440",{"_20":2660,"_90":2618,"_2619":2674},"00:00:42.940",{"_20":2668,"_90":2618,"_2619":2676},"00:00:48.060",{"_20":2678,"_90":266,"_267":2679,"_275":2709,"_277":278},"6e4409a9cf83",[2680,2685,2688,2693,2696,2701,2704],{"_20":2681,"_90":271,"_272":2682,"_141":2684},"d03ec2af684f",[2683],"de2064d","And I hope to share some of that information experience with",{"_20":2686,"_90":271,"_272":2687,"_141":2602},"23494c392fe3",[],{"_20":2689,"_90":271,"_272":2690,"_141":2692},"2ae2d9d78b1d",[2691],"16bd481","you tonight. Really excited to be moderating this panel.",{"_20":2694,"_90":271,"_272":2695,"_141":2602},"ecfd697526ab",[],{"_20":2697,"_90":271,"_272":2698,"_141":2700},"b97902baeb6b",[2699],"ff2bff1","And instead of me introducing everyone, I'd like for them to introduce themselves.",{"_20":2702,"_90":271,"_272":2703,"_141":2602},"5e71a48027be",[],{"_20":2705,"_90":271,"_272":2706,"_141":2708},"f32a524cb9fd",[2707],"f7a7dea","So we'll start with Tamao. If you would just give a brief introduction yourself and get to know the audience.",[2710,2712,2714,2716],{"_20":2683,"_90":2618,"_2619":2711},"00:00:53.820",{"_20":2691,"_90":2618,"_2619":2713},"00:00:56.240",{"_20":2699,"_90":2618,"_2619":2715},"00:00:59.600",{"_20":2707,"_90":2618,"_2619":2717},"00:01:03.600",{"_20":2719,"_90":266,"_267":2720,"_275":2738,"_277":278},"8882372d7d35",[2721,2726,2730,2733],{"_20":2722,"_90":271,"_272":2723,"_141":2725},"7c16e28111bc",[2724,582],"64630a7","Tamao Nakahara:",{"_20":2727,"_90":271,"_272":2728,"_141":2729},"b17f0c34c077",[2724]," Hi, my name is Tamao Nakahara, and I currently run a developer experience team at a startup called Weaveworks.",{"_20":2731,"_90":271,"_272":2732,"_141":2602},"154184925fc6",[],{"_20":2734,"_90":271,"_272":2735,"_141":2737},"566567d07657",[2736],"ac7ef9a","We're in the Kubernetes space.",[2739,2741],{"_20":2724,"_90":2618,"_2619":2740},"00:01:08.360",{"_20":2736,"_90":2618,"_2619":2742},"00:01:15.719",{"_20":2744,"_90":266,"_267":2745,"_275":2759,"_277":278},"4a92d5561b2e",[2746,2751,2754],{"_20":2747,"_90":271,"_272":2748,"_141":2750},"1197243e725a",[2749],"6b28505","If we go far back, I started out in the partner space at VMware, but I was kind of with a scrappy person who discovered the thing called Oracle User Group.",{"_20":2752,"_90":271,"_272":2753,"_141":2602},"f1fbff07bd37",[],{"_20":2755,"_90":271,"_272":2756,"_141":2758},"ccd42ef8dfa8",[2757],"08fbb29","So that's kind of my first touch into how certain communities did grassroots stuff.",[2760,2762],{"_20":2749,"_90":2618,"_2619":2761},"00:01:18.160",{"_20":2757,"_90":2618,"_2619":2763},"00:01:26.219",{"_20":2765,"_90":266,"_267":2766,"_275":2796,"_277":278},"834ee2b07844",[2767,2772,2775,2780,2783,2788,2791],{"_20":2768,"_90":271,"_272":2769,"_141":2771},"bade9f2da740",[2770],"d68ce38","And then at VMware they acquired a company called SpringSource.",{"_20":2773,"_90":271,"_272":2774,"_141":2602},"6ea3adf23a3b",[],{"_20":2776,"_90":271,"_272":2777,"_141":2779},"b533cc8278ca",[2778],"a5295b9","And so then created the first DevRel team around Cloud Foundry in Spring.",{"_20":2781,"_90":271,"_272":2782,"_141":2602},"901436c2a3bc",[],{"_20":2784,"_90":271,"_272":2785,"_141":2787},"afc6159f0b33",[2786],"af0c2c5","And I signed up day one.",{"_20":2789,"_90":271,"_272":2790,"_141":2602},"8a37146a9b6f",[],{"_20":2792,"_90":271,"_272":2793,"_141":2795},"85d84acaf077",[2794],"09c230d","I was like, oh my God, what is this thing?",[2797,2799,2801,2803],{"_20":2770,"_90":2618,"_2619":2798},"00:01:30.700",{"_20":2778,"_90":2618,"_2619":2800},"00:01:34.280",{"_20":2786,"_90":2618,"_2619":2802},"00:01:37.799",{"_20":2794,"_90":2618,"_2619":2804},"00:01:39.080",{"_20":2806,"_90":266,"_267":2807,"_275":2829,"_277":278},"a9186e2c884a",[2808,2813,2816,2821,2824],{"_20":2809,"_90":271,"_272":2810,"_141":2812},"2346566c1034",[2811],"e5ef71e","And then kind of got obsessed with that and how that worked and how I just felt really attached to it.",{"_20":2814,"_90":271,"_272":2815,"_141":2602},"77eb85052d1c",[],{"_20":2817,"_90":271,"_272":2818,"_141":2820},"13f95a0c2283",[2819],"636c1ee","And then we got spun off into Pivotal with a lot of the open source bits that were there.",{"_20":2822,"_90":271,"_272":2823,"_141":2602},"21947f9dd4b4",[],{"_20":2825,"_90":271,"_272":2826,"_141":2828},"f579dabbfa64",[2827],"e7b4871","So you might know RabbitMQ, Redis, Groovy, Grails, of course, Spring and Cloud Foundry and others.",[2830,2832,2834],{"_20":2811,"_90":2618,"_2619":2831},"00:01:40.840",{"_20":2819,"_90":2618,"_2619":2833},"00:01:46.780",{"_20":2827,"_90":2618,"_2619":2835},"00:01:51.500",{"_20":2837,"_90":266,"_267":2838,"_275":2852,"_277":278},"44458bf7c1f0",[2839,2844,2847],{"_20":2840,"_90":271,"_272":2841,"_141":2843},"96028ab42e6f",[2842],"4c7fefa","And then after that, I was at New Relic and so ran a developer relations team kind of more in a marketing org.",{"_20":2845,"_90":271,"_272":2846,"_141":2602},"17b531fe5254",[],{"_20":2848,"_90":271,"_272":2849,"_141":2851},"24171e3e5274",[2850],"21e6e91","And now developer experience kind of brings all these different pieces together because we're very much a team that spends a lot of our time contributing to the Kubernetes space and then building our own open source projects.",[2853,2855],{"_20":2842,"_90":2618,"_2619":2854},"00:01:58.060",{"_20":2850,"_90":2618,"_2619":2856},"00:02:04.460",{"_20":2858,"_90":266,"_267":2859,"_275":2873,"_277":278},"2d1515374eb0",[2860,2865,2868],{"_20":2861,"_90":271,"_272":2862,"_141":2864},"e00450c23964",[2863],"52ecb0f","So kind of a wide range of developer marketing through open source",{"_20":2866,"_90":271,"_272":2867,"_141":2602},"67c035afb5e3",[],{"_20":2869,"_90":271,"_272":2870,"_141":2872},"e5e325a524a0",[2871],"37672a0","through product stuff. So if you want to ask me of any of those, I'm happy to help.",[2874,2876],{"_20":2863,"_90":2618,"_2619":2875},"00:02:15.740",{"_20":2871,"_90":2618,"_2619":2877},"00:02:20.140",{"_20":2879,"_90":266,"_267":2880,"_275":2898,"_277":278},"8139760084e4",[2881,2886,2890,2893],{"_20":2882,"_90":271,"_272":2883,"_141":2885},"256b717e91c0",[2884,582],"9cde04f","Dave Nugent:",{"_20":2887,"_90":271,"_272":2888,"_141":2889},"dba2c8723502",[2884]," I'm Dave Nugent. I work for IBM as a developer advocate and I also run the SF JavaScript meetup and ForwardJS",{"_20":2891,"_90":271,"_272":2892,"_141":2602},"401db9ac820c",[],{"_20":2894,"_90":271,"_272":2895,"_141":2897},"c29d8feb9b4d",[2896],"27dae09","conferences. So yeah, excited to be on the panel.",[2899,2901],{"_20":2884,"_90":2618,"_2619":2900},"00:02:24.379",{"_20":2896,"_90":2618,"_2619":2902},"00:02:31.819",{"_20":2904,"_90":266,"_267":2905,"_275":2923,"_277":278},"b1f65fa5fa20",[2906,2911,2915,2918],{"_20":2907,"_90":271,"_272":2908,"_141":2910},"83c6a400f492",[2909,582],"2d27561","Mike Stowe:",{"_20":2912,"_90":271,"_272":2913,"_141":2914},"6f6ed62300f9",[2909]," All right, I'm Mike Stowe. I have no idea what my official title is at RingCentral.",{"_20":2916,"_90":271,"_272":2917,"_141":2602},"0ef6a9208cc7",[],{"_20":2919,"_90":271,"_272":2920,"_141":2922},"b754f47fcdda",[2921],"7323d5f","I stopped counting after like the first four words.",[2924,2926],{"_20":2909,"_90":2618,"_2619":2925},"00:02:35.519",{"_20":2921,"_90":2618,"_2619":2927},"00:02:39.519",{"_20":2929,"_90":266,"_267":2930,"_275":2936,"_277":278},"add18106e180",[2931],{"_20":2932,"_90":271,"_272":2933,"_141":2935},"1bc0dd89b9be",[2934],"3c0e92c","Business card. A business card. So I run RingCentral's developer marketing program.",[2937],{"_20":2934,"_90":2618,"_2619":2938},"00:02:42.560",{"_20":2940,"_90":266,"_267":2941,"_275":2963,"_277":278},"a9d8f3de6444",[2942,2947,2950,2955,2958],{"_20":2943,"_90":271,"_272":2944,"_141":2946},"469a412d39ba",[2945],"d536efd","Before that I started off as an engineer, so I was an engineer for about fifteen years.",{"_20":2948,"_90":271,"_272":2949,"_141":2602},"336df1c7da31",[],{"_20":2951,"_90":271,"_272":2952,"_141":2954},"9c935cddb456",[2953],"add587a","And a lot of people use the term like self-taught developer.",{"_20":2956,"_90":271,"_272":2957,"_141":2602},"e586ea432932",[],{"_20":2959,"_90":271,"_272":2960,"_141":2962},"86671918790b",[2961],"14104b8","I like the term community taught developer because I made way too many mistakes to be self-taught and the community really bailed me out.",[2964,2966,2968],{"_20":2945,"_90":2618,"_2619":2965},"00:02:47.280",{"_20":2953,"_90":2618,"_2619":2967},"00:02:51.360",{"_20":2961,"_90":2618,"_2619":2969},"00:02:54.000",{"_20":2971,"_90":266,"_267":2972,"_275":2978,"_277":278},"fa3b85de743a",[2973],{"_20":2974,"_90":271,"_272":2975,"_141":2977},"6c07f9ad28fd",[2976],"e9dc88f","Or so I thought. After fifteen years people saw my code in production, yay, and said go to marketing.",[2979],{"_20":2976,"_90":2618,"_2619":2980},"00:02:59.640",{"_20":2982,"_90":266,"_267":2983,"_275":3001,"_277":278},"f454377add31",[2984,2989,2993,2996],{"_20":2985,"_90":271,"_272":2986,"_141":2988},"0b8746db7cc1",[2987,582],"e124657","Jesse:",{"_20":2990,"_90":271,"_272":2991,"_141":2992},"0adaad429df9",[2987]," Thanks, Mike. Great team this evening for y'all.",{"_20":2994,"_90":271,"_272":2995,"_141":2602},"b319cba3e426",[],{"_20":2997,"_90":271,"_272":2998,"_141":3000},"96eca720a4dd",[2999],"18c73fd","A lot of experience and community.",[3002,3004],{"_20":2987,"_90":2618,"_2619":3003},"00:03:06.280",{"_20":2999,"_90":2618,"_2619":3005},"00:03:11.700",{"_20":3007,"_90":266,"_267":3008,"_275":3022,"_277":278},"986ec4724074",[3009,3014,3017],{"_20":3010,"_90":271,"_272":3011,"_141":3013},"ed379170a60a",[3012],"a9ac51e","And so hopefully we'll get into some of the specific questions.",{"_20":3015,"_90":271,"_272":3016,"_141":2602},"6f872667adaa",[],{"_20":3018,"_90":271,"_272":3019,"_141":3021},"2fc5bd9dfbe0",[3020],"86d9609","And if not, like Mina said, we'll have Q&A at the end, and then we'll also be able to go out and meet each of you individually afterwards and hopefully get to the questions if you have them that are burning.",[3023,3025],{"_20":3012,"_90":2618,"_2619":3024},"00:03:13.060",{"_20":3020,"_90":2618,"_2619":3026},"00:03:16.580",{"_20":3028,"_90":266,"_267":3029,"_275":3051,"_277":278},"595c6efb3b19",[3030,3035,3038,3043,3046],{"_20":3031,"_90":271,"_272":3032,"_141":3034},"de413135f062",[3033],"205de31","But I wanted to start off, as we think about community, it's funny to consider what is community.",{"_20":3036,"_90":271,"_272":3037,"_141":2602},"cd38d0942e89",[],{"_20":3039,"_90":271,"_272":3040,"_141":3042},"2c9a532c9f14",[3041],"a1027a8","There are many different aspects of it.",{"_20":3044,"_90":271,"_272":3045,"_141":2602},"f088eddea2c8",[],{"_20":3047,"_90":271,"_272":3048,"_141":3050},"99d0c0da77a5",[3049],"f405a1e","And whenever I think about community, I think about the human aspect.",[3052,3054,3056],{"_20":3033,"_90":2618,"_2619":3053},"00:03:26.220",{"_20":3041,"_90":2618,"_2619":3055},"00:03:32.120",{"_20":3049,"_90":2618,"_2619":3057},"00:03:34.040",{"_20":3059,"_90":266,"_267":3060,"_275":3090,"_277":278},"21ccf4e6549a",[3061,3066,3069,3074,3077,3082,3085],{"_20":3062,"_90":271,"_272":3063,"_141":3065},"616c028aedc4",[3064],"6b6715a","We're trying to bring humans together, connection.",{"_20":3067,"_90":271,"_272":3068,"_141":2602},"831191e489b5",[],{"_20":3070,"_90":271,"_272":3071,"_141":3073},"ffc3369e9dd5",[3072],"0c9ced9","Right, building places where people belong.",{"_20":3075,"_90":271,"_272":3076,"_141":2602},"8c9201b43d54",[],{"_20":3078,"_90":271,"_272":3079,"_141":3081},"af08e8e598fa",[3080],"b8b817d","And so as we get started, when you define community, just in a few words, what do you think community is?",{"_20":3083,"_90":271,"_272":3084,"_141":2602},"31ae561a1ad4",[],{"_20":3086,"_90":271,"_272":3087,"_141":3089},"6c5b7ba4006b",[3088],"6d57d6a","And Mike, why don't we start with you and come back this way?",[3091,3093,3095,3097],{"_20":3064,"_90":2618,"_2619":3092},"00:03:37.400",{"_20":3072,"_90":2618,"_2619":3094},"00:03:39.940",{"_20":3080,"_90":2618,"_2619":3096},"00:03:42.660",{"_20":3088,"_90":2618,"_2619":3098},"00:03:50.180",{"_20":3100,"_90":266,"_267":3101,"_275":3127,"_277":278},"d25f32a55e03",[3102,3107,3111,3114,3119,3122],{"_20":3103,"_90":271,"_272":3104,"_141":3106},"d4a6606c4868",[3105,582],"b660f5b","Mike:",{"_20":3108,"_90":271,"_272":3109,"_141":3110},"c8d6af0bdd88",[3105]," Wow, you just start with a tough question right off the bat.",{"_20":3112,"_90":271,"_272":3113,"_141":2602},"ac971dd89a78",[],{"_20":3115,"_90":271,"_272":3116,"_141":3118},"bdbe6ee13ebf",[3117],"3c24756","I think community can be summed up in one word and that is relationships.",{"_20":3120,"_90":271,"_272":3121,"_141":2602},"05912037af31",[],{"_20":3123,"_90":271,"_272":3124,"_141":3126},"f85a289fe685",[3125],"3f06379","Community is this right here.",[3128,3130,3132],{"_20":3105,"_90":2618,"_2619":3129},"00:03:53.400",{"_20":3117,"_90":2618,"_2619":3131},"00:03:55.880",{"_20":3125,"_90":2618,"_2619":3133},"00:03:59.320",{"_20":3135,"_90":266,"_267":3136,"_275":3150,"_277":278},"87d12ec302e1",[3137,3142,3145],{"_20":3138,"_90":271,"_272":3139,"_141":3141},"49b954f29273",[3140],"0f1d4c9","It's a chance for people to get together, talk about things that they're interested in, share their interests,",{"_20":3143,"_90":271,"_272":3144,"_141":2602},"112a80930aca",[],{"_20":3146,"_90":271,"_272":3147,"_141":3149},"9b455200a9bf",[3148],"13d8f9e","bond with each other and move forward together as a single organism.",[3151,3153],{"_20":3140,"_90":2618,"_2619":3152},"00:04:00.680",{"_20":3148,"_90":2618,"_2619":3154},"00:04:04.720",{"_20":3156,"_90":266,"_267":3157,"_275":3175,"_277":278},"a6b81d3ab8b1",[3158,3163,3167,3170],{"_20":3159,"_90":271,"_272":3160,"_141":3162},"a56f70c30f41",[3161,582],"ade2142","Dave:",{"_20":3164,"_90":271,"_272":3165,"_141":3166},"2b18bc743f10",[3161]," Yeah, makes sense. My interest in community has always really been on the in-person side of things.",{"_20":3168,"_90":271,"_272":3169,"_141":2602},"4b07c02403d5",[],{"_20":3171,"_90":271,"_272":3172,"_141":3174},"4d1b3d960387",[3173],"0321ff2","I know that it can be really powerful online, but as a conference organizer and a meetup organizer, I really value those personal relationships that you sort of get in an in person gathering.",[3176,3178],{"_20":3161,"_90":2618,"_2619":3177},"00:04:09.760",{"_20":3173,"_90":2618,"_2619":3179},"00:04:14.640",{"_20":3181,"_90":266,"_267":3182,"_275":3208,"_277":278},"3a6beb15891f",[3183,3188,3192,3195,3200,3203],{"_20":3184,"_90":271,"_272":3185,"_141":3187},"ae1b8da507c6",[3186,582],"7fbb6d6","Tamao:",{"_20":3189,"_90":271,"_272":3190,"_141":3191},"885c61255f3d",[3186]," Yeah, to piggyback on all those, as I mentioned, I had been involved in product user groups and open source community groups, and I feel like the thing that feels most meaningful is people wanting to come together to",{"_20":3193,"_90":271,"_272":3194,"_141":2602},"011d3a5f06f0",[],{"_20":3196,"_90":271,"_272":3197,"_141":3199},"06ebd4102961",[3198],"1dafb46","discuss and help each other around certain topic areas where maybe they don't really get that in their workplace, or build together on something where they don't feel like they can get the financial support.",{"_20":3201,"_90":271,"_272":3202,"_141":2602},"27c039b1d54f",[],{"_20":3204,"_90":271,"_272":3205,"_141":3207},"40c052c2047f",[3206],"2db0764","So sometimes it's that personal meaning that comes out of those different interactions as well.",[3209,3211,3213],{"_20":3186,"_90":2618,"_2619":3210},"00:04:24.000",{"_20":3198,"_90":2618,"_2619":3212},"00:04:36.140",{"_20":3206,"_90":2618,"_2619":3214},"00:04:47.580",{"_20":3216,"_90":266,"_267":3217,"_275":3222,"_277":394},"98ccb7408b4c",[3218],{"_20":3219,"_90":271,"_272":3220,"_141":3221},"4860aec2deea",[],"Where Communities Begin",[],{"_20":3224,"_90":266,"_267":3225,"_275":3258,"_277":278},"697b0356b5b4",[3226,3230,3234,3237,3242,3245,3250,3253],{"_20":3227,"_90":271,"_272":3228,"_141":2988},"0891d76ed1e8",[3229,582],"8f12c09",{"_20":3231,"_90":271,"_272":3232,"_141":3233},"9c558d608506",[3229]," Awesome. Some good definitions. When someone is beginning to think about building a community,",{"_20":3235,"_90":271,"_272":3236,"_141":2602},"4134634be764",[],{"_20":3238,"_90":271,"_272":3239,"_141":3241},"27f1b091ecd6",[3240],"35d93fc","at what stage should they think about building the community?",{"_20":3243,"_90":271,"_272":3244,"_141":2602},"56f3a805c2d1",[],{"_20":3246,"_90":271,"_272":3247,"_141":3249},"95e73f7870a4",[3248],"71a58cb","And right, what are those steps that they have to start to be able to do such a thing?",{"_20":3251,"_90":271,"_272":3252,"_141":2602},"5e75f7a2a311",[],{"_20":3254,"_90":271,"_272":3255,"_141":3257},"778395cd84d5",[3256],"91c95b2","Tamao, why don't you go first?",[3259,3261,3263,3265],{"_20":3229,"_90":2618,"_2619":3260},"00:04:52.220",{"_20":3240,"_90":2618,"_2619":3262},"00:04:58.220",{"_20":3248,"_90":2618,"_2619":3264},"00:05:01.340",{"_20":3256,"_90":2618,"_2619":3266},"00:05:05.740",{"_20":3268,"_90":266,"_267":3269,"_275":3286,"_277":2033},"6de7ef6dd613",[3270,3274,3278,3281],{"_20":3271,"_90":271,"_272":3272,"_141":3187},"f70b0eb41ae3",[3273,582],"94e2ac5",{"_20":3275,"_90":271,"_272":3276,"_141":3277},"f61b4e8b2a37",[3273]," I would start with finding out where the communities are happening organically.",{"_20":3279,"_90":271,"_272":3280,"_141":2602},"60e0a5cb19f0",[],{"_20":3282,"_90":271,"_272":3283,"_141":3285},"3eb96b170ddc",[3284],"4262bf5","I think we've maybe all had an experience where we feel like we're kind of brute forcing the creation of a community, or we feel like there's a business need.",[3287,3289],{"_20":3273,"_90":2618,"_2619":3288},"00:05:08.240",{"_20":3284,"_90":2618,"_2619":3290},"00:05:12.560",{"_20":3292,"_90":266,"_267":3293,"_275":3323,"_277":278},"cc57dabcb834",[3294,3299,3302,3307,3310,3315,3318],{"_20":3295,"_90":271,"_272":3296,"_141":3298},"5b55fd20e02a",[3297],"a773328","And I just feel in my personal experience it's not really going to work unless it happens among people who are maybe organizing their own meetup groups already, because they're just so excited about",{"_20":3300,"_90":271,"_272":3301,"_141":2602},"21f69a6a93bc",[],{"_20":3303,"_90":271,"_272":3304,"_141":3306},"1f1aa027566d",[3305],"2f6817d","an open source project that you created, or they just love your product so much that they're out there tweeting about it or doing stuff, and sometimes building that community is around",{"_20":3308,"_90":271,"_272":3309,"_141":2602},"a0c2e18cabb3",[],{"_20":3311,"_90":271,"_272":3312,"_141":3314},"36b718f2d141",[3313],"2baa23e","recognizing and then giving a formal relationship to what you think is happening organically.",{"_20":3316,"_90":271,"_272":3317,"_141":2602},"644a95779518",[],{"_20":3319,"_90":271,"_272":3320,"_141":3322},"69240eccf47a",[3321],"46b407f","I feel like if it comes the other way around you're gonna often have an uphill battle.",[3324,3326,3328,3330],{"_20":3297,"_90":2618,"_2619":3325},"00:05:20.440",{"_20":3305,"_90":2618,"_2619":3327},"00:05:31.639",{"_20":3313,"_90":2618,"_2619":3329},"00:05:42.039",{"_20":3321,"_90":2618,"_2619":3331},"00:05:49.879",{"_20":3333,"_90":266,"_267":3334,"_275":3351,"_277":278},"b60f6598bcc7",[3335,3339,3343,3346],{"_20":3336,"_90":271,"_272":3337,"_141":3106},"8bf3465d550b",[3338,582],"66a4637",{"_20":3340,"_90":271,"_272":3341,"_141":3342},"f24f61d268a4",[3338]," So I think in terms of the first part of the question, at what stage do you build a community or should your business start looking at building a community?",{"_20":3344,"_90":271,"_272":3345,"_141":2602},"8ab5af0ae4f7",[],{"_20":3347,"_90":271,"_272":3348,"_141":3350},"4c2b4c77fa29",[3349],"acdd1e2","I think the question really is how much money do you want to throw away on marketing before you realize that word of mouth is the best marketing?",[3352,3354],{"_20":3338,"_90":2618,"_2619":3353},"00:05:54.820",{"_20":3349,"_90":2618,"_2619":3355},"00:06:04.380",{"_20":3357,"_90":266,"_267":3358,"_275":3380,"_277":278},"98063b133a7e",[3359,3364,3367,3372,3375],{"_20":3360,"_90":271,"_272":3361,"_141":3363},"2366421318b2",[3362],"cab1ab8","And what I mean by that is how many people here have heard of thing called goat yoga?",{"_20":3365,"_90":271,"_272":3366,"_141":2602},"cfcd524f5a0d",[],{"_20":3368,"_90":271,"_272":3369,"_141":3371},"2e40fe66c8ce",[3370],"231334d","I learned about this today. I'd never heard this.",{"_20":3373,"_90":271,"_272":3374,"_141":2602},"2ebc5f2114e8",[],{"_20":3376,"_90":271,"_272":3377,"_141":3379},"1efe544d5e4d",[3378],"52319b1","A friend told me. Again, word of mouth.",[3381,3383,3385],{"_20":3362,"_90":2618,"_2619":3382},"00:06:10.699",{"_20":3370,"_90":2618,"_2619":3384},"00:06:15.720",{"_20":3378,"_90":2618,"_2619":3386},"00:06:18.040",{"_20":3388,"_90":266,"_267":3389,"_275":3411,"_277":278},"a799df55cdf7",[3390,3395,3398,3403,3406],{"_20":3391,"_90":271,"_272":3392,"_141":3394},"cb410a89a4c5",[3393],"92f8cb4","How many people saw the Starbucks cup in Game of Thrones?",{"_20":3396,"_90":271,"_272":3397,"_141":2602},"4dc70769c1fd",[],{"_20":3399,"_90":271,"_272":3400,"_141":3402},"acafece04837",[3401],"c7576d0","A couple people. How many people know that wasn't a Starbucks cup?",{"_20":3404,"_90":271,"_272":3405,"_141":2602},"813363406d9c",[],{"_20":3407,"_90":271,"_272":3408,"_141":3410},"caa72ed71441",[3409],"5cc875d","They got something like seven million dollars worth of, I don't even know what the number is, of free marketing because of the community that they had talking about a product that wasn't even theirs.",[3412,3414,3416],{"_20":3393,"_90":2618,"_2619":3413},"00:06:20.040",{"_20":3401,"_90":2618,"_2619":3415},"00:06:23.640",{"_20":3409,"_90":2618,"_2619":3417},"00:06:26.760",{"_20":3419,"_90":266,"_267":3420,"_275":3442,"_277":278},"d980f379caa4",[3421,3426,3429,3434,3437],{"_20":3422,"_90":271,"_272":3423,"_141":3425},"f14a959e71eb",[3424],"8305dc1","That's what community can really do. It not only gives the ability to expand your company and tell people how they're using it, but provide you feedback at the same time.",{"_20":3427,"_90":271,"_272":3428,"_141":2602},"0ccd4c6b8338",[],{"_20":3430,"_90":271,"_272":3431,"_141":3433},"17f3c36b2c43",[3432],"0cb5da8","So if you're saying, look, we want to go to market with this product, is it gonna sell?",{"_20":3435,"_90":271,"_272":3436,"_141":2602},"1bb1ca87ef72",[],{"_20":3438,"_90":271,"_272":3439,"_141":3441},"9abb1fc9714f",[3440],"bf13edf","Are people gonna buy it? Going to your community, they can tell you, hey, this is great, but this doesn't work.",[3443,3445,3447],{"_20":3424,"_90":2618,"_2619":3444},"00:06:35.100",{"_20":3432,"_90":2618,"_2619":3446},"00:06:42.780",{"_20":3440,"_90":2618,"_2619":3448},"00:06:46.380",{"_20":3450,"_90":266,"_267":3451,"_275":3465,"_277":278},"0932b3d4bd9d",[3452,3457,3460],{"_20":3453,"_90":271,"_272":3454,"_141":3456},"c5b9ee80573a",[3455],"9a92a96","I need to revise this. So I would start with community very first thing.",{"_20":3458,"_90":271,"_272":3459,"_141":2602},"674dfea041ee",[],{"_20":3461,"_90":271,"_272":3462,"_141":3464},"4196a4949b32",[3463],"cec3461","I think it's one of the first things you should do.",[3466,3468],{"_20":3455,"_90":2618,"_2619":3467},"00:06:50.680",{"_20":3463,"_90":2618,"_2619":3469},"00:06:53.560",{"_20":3471,"_90":266,"_267":3472,"_275":3481,"_277":278},"a73d04f38227",[3473,3477],{"_20":3474,"_90":271,"_272":3475,"_141":2988},"06d1bef3635e",[3476,582],"d79640c",{"_20":3478,"_90":271,"_272":3479,"_141":3480},"996f8bbe1717",[3476]," Okay. Awesome. Dave.",[3482],{"_20":3476,"_90":2618,"_2619":3483},"00:06:55.160",{"_20":3485,"_90":266,"_267":3486,"_275":3495,"_277":278},"487331f9e57d",[3487,3491],{"_20":3488,"_90":271,"_272":3489,"_141":3162},"374bbcb69f2e",[3490,582],"32f7d16",{"_20":3492,"_90":271,"_272":3493,"_141":3494},"6af3244c9258",[3490]," I have a question now. What was the goat yoga thing?",[3496],{"_20":3490,"_90":2618,"_2619":3497},"00:06:56.980",{"_20":3499,"_90":266,"_267":3500,"_275":3509,"_277":278},"3019372dca1f",[3501,3505],{"_20":3502,"_90":271,"_272":3503,"_141":3187},"8b1322604bcc",[3504,582],"622c6ec",{"_20":3506,"_90":271,"_272":3507,"_141":3508},"784f36f7fd70",[3504]," Oh yeah.",[3510],{"_20":3504,"_90":2618,"_2619":3511},"00:06:59.460",{"_20":3513,"_90":266,"_267":3514,"_275":3547,"_277":278},"5bd3a73c7c5f",[3515,3519,3523,3526,3531,3534,3539,3542],{"_20":3516,"_90":271,"_272":3517,"_141":3162},"1f2626526e9d",[3518,582],"165e790",{"_20":3520,"_90":271,"_272":3521,"_141":3522},"26c6f9dde9cc",[3518]," I thought you were kidding when you said you were gonna mention that.",{"_20":3524,"_90":271,"_272":3525,"_141":2602},"9bad2274c86b",[],{"_20":3527,"_90":271,"_272":3528,"_141":3530},"929a49796d0c",[3529],"5a9e50d","It's a real thing, unfortunately. But I think you had a great point about paving the cow paths",{"_20":3532,"_90":271,"_272":3533,"_141":2602},"bcab75c74ed7",[],{"_20":3535,"_90":271,"_272":3536,"_141":3538},"b41a8efb570a",[3537],"bf0cff2","of the community, because I think we've all been in a situation where you start up a forum or something and that's just not the way that your customers and your community members want to interact with you. I gave a presentation",{"_20":3540,"_90":271,"_272":3541,"_141":2602},"70dc1340d4ff",[],{"_20":3543,"_90":271,"_272":3544,"_141":3546},"d861252b4ee2",[3545],"d2ebd0a","on a topic that there were three people in the audience.",[3548,3550,3552,3554],{"_20":3518,"_90":2618,"_2619":3549},"00:07:02.900",{"_20":3529,"_90":2618,"_2619":3551},"00:07:04.900",{"_20":3537,"_90":2618,"_2619":3553},"00:07:10.000",{"_20":3545,"_90":2618,"_2619":3555},"00:07:21.180",{"_20":3557,"_90":266,"_267":3558,"_275":3588,"_277":278},"de9ada371f19",[3559,3564,3567,3572,3575,3580,3583],{"_20":3560,"_90":271,"_272":3561,"_141":3563},"77139e2a33cd",[3562],"b00e339","So obviously that was not a topic that people in the community were responding well to.",{"_20":3565,"_90":271,"_272":3566,"_141":2602},"fb7bbb88fef5",[],{"_20":3568,"_90":271,"_272":3569,"_141":3571},"a72bbb7d1d11",[3570],"97348d2","Although in my defense that was also like a Warriors playoff game that night and the season finale of RuPaul's Drag Race.",{"_20":3573,"_90":271,"_272":3574,"_141":2602},"1714eca560bc",[],{"_20":3576,"_90":271,"_272":3577,"_141":3579},"0ae8322fca91",[3578],"b5f7fd5","So that might have had something to do with it.",{"_20":3581,"_90":271,"_272":3582,"_141":2602},"5ec1a0dbb8ba",[],{"_20":3584,"_90":271,"_272":3585,"_141":3587},"fdad1328b3d8",[3586],"259c929","But yeah, find what your community is interested in, how they want to communicate and double down on it.",[3589,3591,3593,3595],{"_20":3562,"_90":2618,"_2619":3590},"00:07:24.140",{"_20":3570,"_90":2618,"_2619":3592},"00:07:28.880",{"_20":3578,"_90":2618,"_2619":3594},"00:07:35.200",{"_20":3586,"_90":2618,"_2619":3596},"00:07:36.880",{"_20":3598,"_90":266,"_267":3599,"_275":3624,"_277":278},"c24476f28f65",[3600,3604,3608,3611,3616,3619],{"_20":3601,"_90":271,"_272":3602,"_141":3187},"0739d126d8ba",[3603,582],"4eed983",{"_20":3605,"_90":271,"_272":3606,"_141":3607},"236d16691c12",[3603]," If I could share, I'm sure people have heard about the Instant Pot phenomenon.",{"_20":3609,"_90":271,"_272":3610,"_141":2602},"73d721e48ec6",[],{"_20":3612,"_90":271,"_272":3613,"_141":3615},"f61822881a2a",[3614],"03454c4","And you know, I just think what they do just makes so much sense and is really a huge part of their success.",{"_20":3617,"_90":271,"_272":3618,"_141":2602},"f3be0fd41e40",[],{"_20":3620,"_90":271,"_272":3621,"_141":3623},"92c40761ae08",[3622],"ead5d07","And I myself like had a rotation of every three years somehow thinking that maybe I need a pressure cooker.",[3625,3627,3629],{"_20":3603,"_90":2618,"_2619":3626},"00:07:42.139",{"_20":3614,"_90":2618,"_2619":3628},"00:07:47.020",{"_20":3622,"_90":2618,"_2619":3630},"00:07:54.300",{"_20":3632,"_90":266,"_267":3633,"_275":3647,"_277":278},"c58f6921fe1f",[3634,3639,3642],{"_20":3635,"_90":271,"_272":3636,"_141":3638},"404dfb751628",[3637],"e00dc7c","And there I was and I literally came to it cold like so many people and I had two video options.",{"_20":3640,"_90":271,"_272":3641,"_141":2602},"252fe6b9deab",[],{"_20":3643,"_90":271,"_272":3644,"_141":3646},"189d004c2abe",[3645],"3242320","I had something on YouTube by a community member who probably then was kind of paid or supported in some way as a brand ambassador.",[3648,3650],{"_20":3637,"_90":2618,"_2619":3649},"00:08:00.920",{"_20":3645,"_90":2618,"_2619":3651},"00:08:08.160",{"_20":3653,"_90":266,"_267":3654,"_275":3684,"_277":278},"a8fb3384f3e7",[3655,3660,3663,3668,3671,3676,3679],{"_20":3656,"_90":271,"_272":3657,"_141":3659},"34634eec0026",[3658],"370c42c","But she had a 20-minute video about the new version of the Instant Pot, all the features that they had changed based on the community and user feedback, like little things like you know, the way the lids",{"_20":3661,"_90":271,"_272":3662,"_141":2602},"eafdd9d45e95",[],{"_20":3664,"_90":271,"_272":3665,"_141":3667},"f4363790762e",[3666],"20e380b","and these things, and she broke it down and then it turned out she also has a book of recipes that if you buy an Instant Pot, like her recipes and other people's recipes",{"_20":3669,"_90":271,"_272":3670,"_141":2602},"c52032e62ace",[],{"_20":3672,"_90":271,"_272":3673,"_141":3675},"bd0c43505ece",[3674],"7d6568e","are officially in this printed book and not just in English and different languages.",{"_20":3677,"_90":271,"_272":3678,"_141":2602},"ae01877947e1",[],{"_20":3680,"_90":271,"_272":3681,"_141":3683},"6f770dcb92fa",[3682],"1be5ed1","So it's just sort of like, well we didn't have time to translate, but here's, you know, these different community members.",[3685,3687,3689,3691],{"_20":3658,"_90":2618,"_2619":3686},"00:08:14.560",{"_20":3666,"_90":2618,"_2619":3688},"00:08:26.780",{"_20":3674,"_90":2618,"_2619":3690},"00:08:36.600",{"_20":3682,"_90":2618,"_2619":3692},"00:08:40.919",{"_20":3694,"_90":266,"_267":3695,"_275":3717,"_277":278},"45a22ba0db3b",[3696,3701,3704,3709,3712],{"_20":3697,"_90":271,"_272":3698,"_141":3700},"fc42f364c9eb",[3699],"a3971ca","And then so I'm watching this and then the competitors video was a product manager, oh sorry, a product marketing manager, was dryly going through like",{"_20":3702,"_90":271,"_272":3703,"_141":2602},"861b9d071106",[],{"_20":3705,"_90":271,"_272":3706,"_141":3708},"0dcb507ba2ce",[3707],"985fcc1","stuff that meant nothing to me, that had nothing to do with what I was looking for.",{"_20":3710,"_90":271,"_272":3711,"_141":2602},"5de601a97244",[],{"_20":3713,"_90":271,"_272":3714,"_141":3716},"c1152ce615de",[3715],"b4b33d2","And so for me it was like, you know, a clear winner.",[3718,3720,3722],{"_20":3699,"_90":2618,"_2619":3719},"00:08:45.959",{"_20":3707,"_90":2618,"_2619":3721},"00:08:55.920",{"_20":3715,"_90":2618,"_2619":3723},"00:08:59.680",{"_20":3725,"_90":266,"_267":3726,"_275":3732,"_277":278},"53f8606a00ed",[3727],{"_20":3728,"_90":271,"_272":3729,"_141":3731},"60465f04ec7b",[3730],"7f71a4f","And then this whole phenomenon took off and I just said, look, that's so much of what we do.",[3733],{"_20":3730,"_90":2618,"_2619":3734},"00:09:01.839",{"_20":3736,"_90":266,"_267":3737,"_275":3751,"_277":2033},"eb415169f579",[3738,3743,3746],{"_20":3739,"_90":271,"_272":3740,"_141":3742},"ce406096b96f",[3741],"390482b","We're seeing what's happening organically. We're validating it.",{"_20":3744,"_90":271,"_272":3745,"_141":2602},"86a7e3445125",[],{"_20":3747,"_90":271,"_272":3748,"_141":3750},"59de3e3c802e",[3749],"f822980","We're helping. We're showing thanks and making it real and part of the conversation, right?",[3752,3754],{"_20":3741,"_90":2618,"_2619":3753},"00:09:06.120",{"_20":3749,"_90":2618,"_2619":3755},"00:09:09.320",{"_20":3757,"_90":266,"_267":3758,"_275":3764,"_277":278},"c362d197fe9d",[3759],{"_20":3760,"_90":271,"_272":3761,"_141":3763},"e8668eef40ff",[3762],"5b19811","And I can't talk enough about how amazing they are and how much we can learn and what we do from what they accomplished.",[3765],{"_20":3762,"_90":2618,"_2619":3766},"00:09:15.160",{"_20":3768,"_90":266,"_267":3769,"_275":3778,"_277":278},"ba769f34cd95",[3770,3774],{"_20":3771,"_90":271,"_272":3772,"_141":2988},"8f333ae6c40f",[3773,582],"ffaffc9",{"_20":3775,"_90":271,"_272":3776,"_141":3777},"1c5752bd1794",[3773]," Do you have one of those pots now?",[3779],{"_20":3773,"_90":2618,"_2619":3780},"00:09:21.480",{"_20":3782,"_90":266,"_267":3783,"_275":3800,"_277":278},"d4954d1a3bc5",[3784,3788,3792,3795],{"_20":3785,"_90":271,"_272":3786,"_141":3187},"ed7667361e81",[3787,582],"46b00ed",{"_20":3789,"_90":271,"_272":3790,"_141":3791},"25d2c5c779b0",[3787]," Hell yeah.",{"_20":3793,"_90":271,"_272":3794,"_141":2602},"524547f463d4",[],{"_20":3796,"_90":271,"_272":3797,"_141":3799},"e1355df3e84e",[3798],"9484a44","Well, because I purchased after I said, look at this community member.",[3801,3803],{"_20":3787,"_90":2618,"_2619":3802},"00:09:22.760",{"_20":3798,"_90":2618,"_2619":3804},"00:09:24.600",{"_20":3806,"_90":266,"_267":3807,"_275":3812,"_277":394},"e7b1152b6283",[3808],{"_20":3809,"_90":271,"_272":3810,"_141":3811},"015d3c3218a9",[],"The Payoff of Starting Early",[],{"_20":3814,"_90":266,"_267":3815,"_275":3840,"_277":278},"6d96cdaa8437",[3816,3820,3824,3827,3832,3835],{"_20":3817,"_90":271,"_272":3818,"_141":2988},"53f65e4f80eb",[3819,582],"9ab8d41",{"_20":3821,"_90":271,"_272":3822,"_141":3823},"b74bfacf8afb",[3819]," It's interesting. It's a good point that you make.",{"_20":3825,"_90":271,"_272":3826,"_141":2602},"dd638a3e36d6",[],{"_20":3828,"_90":271,"_272":3829,"_141":3831},"1d2c4c4d5651",[3830],"acdfa93","And we'll get to some more of the details of that later, but one of the key reasons that you have a community is to make products better.",{"_20":3833,"_90":271,"_272":3834,"_141":2602},"7f0499415555",[],{"_20":3836,"_90":271,"_272":3837,"_141":3839},"0179a43d29ba",[3838],"60633dc","Right, capturing that feedback and being able to take action on it.",[3841,3843,3845],{"_20":3819,"_90":2618,"_2619":3842},"00:09:28.160",{"_20":3830,"_90":2618,"_2619":3844},"00:09:30.080",{"_20":3838,"_90":2618,"_2619":3846},"00:09:37.240",{"_20":3848,"_90":266,"_267":3849,"_275":3871,"_277":278},"6fa15dc5810c",[3850,3855,3858,3863,3866],{"_20":3851,"_90":271,"_272":3852,"_141":3854},"f76e0425eca7",[3853],"1edb026","That's a really good point. And whenever you think about other advantages of standing up community, Mike, you specifically said as early as possible.",{"_20":3856,"_90":271,"_272":3857,"_141":2602},"e06c5c482da7",[],{"_20":3859,"_90":271,"_272":3860,"_141":3862},"b131600a3dc5",[3861],"77f4b50","Right in your answer. So what are some of the advantages as those in the room are thinking about stand-up community?",{"_20":3864,"_90":271,"_272":3865,"_141":2602},"1f2bf9c80654",[],{"_20":3867,"_90":271,"_272":3868,"_141":3870},"23c3f186e522",[3869],"69bba32","What are the advantages of standing it up early versus waiting until it's too late?",[3872,3874,3876],{"_20":3853,"_90":2618,"_2619":3873},"00:09:40.200",{"_20":3861,"_90":2618,"_2619":3875},"00:09:49.020",{"_20":3869,"_90":2618,"_2619":3877},"00:09:54.620",{"_20":3879,"_90":266,"_267":3880,"_275":3913,"_277":278},"cf798464c34c",[3881,3885,3889,3892,3897,3900,3905,3908],{"_20":3882,"_90":271,"_272":3883,"_141":3106},"24d0f5b773ee",[3884,582],"281ff73",{"_20":3886,"_90":271,"_272":3887,"_141":3888},"d673dd3c6ae3",[3884]," I think one of the",{"_20":3890,"_90":271,"_272":3891,"_141":2602},"a1611e2a867f",[],{"_20":3893,"_90":271,"_272":3894,"_141":3896},"b667a56fb900",[3895],"b777f7b","first advantages is you find out if your product really meets the community's needs.",{"_20":3898,"_90":271,"_272":3899,"_141":2602},"2917130fad59",[],{"_20":3901,"_90":271,"_272":3902,"_141":3904},"a8a7e7be9f72",[3903],"8d82ee1","You can throw a lot of ideas out there.",{"_20":3906,"_90":271,"_272":3907,"_141":2602},"ece4e579e39f",[],{"_20":3909,"_90":271,"_272":3910,"_141":3912},"45ef38ae3ed9",[3911],"fbcf4b4","And I'll pick up myself, for example.",[3914,3916,3918,3920],{"_20":3884,"_90":2618,"_2619":3915},"00:09:59.800",{"_20":3895,"_90":2618,"_2619":3917},"00:10:00.600",{"_20":3903,"_90":2618,"_2619":3919},"00:10:05.720",{"_20":3911,"_90":2618,"_2619":3921},"00:10:07.839",{"_20":3923,"_90":266,"_267":3924,"_275":3946,"_277":278},"62db85cfd2fb",[3925,3930,3933,3938,3941],{"_20":3926,"_90":271,"_272":3927,"_141":3929},"38cf7505efbb",[3928],"e94c0f6","I worked for a company or as a contractor for a company long, long time ago, where we built this API, we put this API out there, we were excited.",{"_20":3931,"_90":271,"_272":3932,"_141":2602},"ac899badd547",[],{"_20":3934,"_90":271,"_272":3935,"_141":3937},"94ca50102b46",[3936],"23928aa","We spent like nine months building this thing.",{"_20":3939,"_90":271,"_272":3940,"_141":2602},"02eec58f3c6a",[],{"_20":3942,"_90":271,"_272":3943,"_141":3945},"e673d91c7cad",[3944],"efc2242","It was amazing. Followed all the best practices.",[3947,3949,3951],{"_20":3928,"_90":2618,"_2619":3948},"00:10:09.759",{"_20":3936,"_90":2618,"_2619":3950},"00:10:17.140",{"_20":3944,"_90":2618,"_2619":3952},"00:10:18.980",{"_20":3954,"_90":266,"_267":3955,"_275":3969,"_277":278},"35bce5fd87de",[3956,3961,3964],{"_20":3957,"_90":271,"_272":3958,"_141":3960},"d24c223081c7",[3959],"c1ef3c0","The code was perfect. I know because I wrote it.",{"_20":3962,"_90":271,"_272":3963,"_141":2602},"6990ef025e4e",[],{"_20":3965,"_90":271,"_272":3966,"_141":3968},"1f125f7dfab9",[3967],"cdf049a","I don't know why people laugh at that.",[3970,3972],{"_20":3959,"_90":2618,"_2619":3971},"00:10:21.700",{"_20":3967,"_90":2618,"_2619":3973},"00:10:24.500",{"_20":3975,"_90":266,"_267":3976,"_275":3998,"_277":278},"b251e9217f0b",[3977,3982,3985,3990,3993],{"_20":3978,"_90":271,"_272":3979,"_141":3981},"58ac73cd3446",[3980],"2e9f0d7","We put it out there and three weeks later we realized we had a problem.",{"_20":3983,"_90":271,"_272":3984,"_141":2602},"2a9d23646f18",[],{"_20":3986,"_90":271,"_272":3987,"_141":3989},"bf40e991bd8b",[3988],"094ac45","No one was using it. It didn't meet their needs.",{"_20":3991,"_90":271,"_272":3992,"_141":2602},"e29836a73753",[],{"_20":3994,"_90":271,"_272":3995,"_141":3997},"8c250eca8d98",[3996],"df57e91","It wasn't what they wanted. So the first part, it goes back to product validation.",[3999,4001,4003],{"_20":3980,"_90":2618,"_2619":4000},"00:10:27.420",{"_20":3988,"_90":2618,"_2619":4002},"00:10:30.620",{"_20":3996,"_90":2618,"_2619":4004},"00:10:33.100",{"_20":4006,"_90":266,"_267":4007,"_275":4021,"_277":278},"ea27934ae311",[4008,4013,4016],{"_20":4009,"_90":271,"_272":4010,"_141":4012},"43e8ca95656d",[4011],"5a1bf14","The second part is it goes back to a lot of your competitors. We look at my past, for example.",{"_20":4014,"_90":271,"_272":4015,"_141":2602},"31eaceb788f7",[],{"_20":4017,"_90":271,"_272":4018,"_141":4020},"663ee84c1542",[4019],"3164256","I joined a company called Constant Contact.",[4022,4024],{"_20":4011,"_90":2618,"_2619":4023},"00:10:37.100",{"_20":4019,"_90":2618,"_2619":4025},"00:10:43.160",{"_20":4027,"_90":266,"_267":4028,"_275":4050,"_277":278},"aa53e6ccc9a1",[4029,4034,4037,4042,4045],{"_20":4030,"_90":271,"_272":4031,"_141":4033},"3747d00273ff",[4032],"35a3b25","How many people have heard of Constant Contact?",{"_20":4035,"_90":271,"_272":4036,"_141":2602},"2d393ca96c73",[],{"_20":4038,"_90":271,"_272":4039,"_141":4041},"d918a4c0c6aa",[4040],"38541ba","How many people have heard of MailChimp?",{"_20":4043,"_90":271,"_272":4044,"_141":2602},"e4a13b6a7665",[],{"_20":4046,"_90":271,"_272":4047,"_141":4049},"5df44859be83",[4048],"2197571","Okay. Yeah, so a little bit more hands for me at MailChimp.",[4051,4053,4055],{"_20":4032,"_90":2618,"_2619":4052},"00:10:45.080",{"_20":4040,"_90":2618,"_2619":4054},"00:10:47.480",{"_20":4048,"_90":2618,"_2619":4056},"00:10:49.040",{"_20":4058,"_90":266,"_267":4059,"_275":4073,"_277":278},"7149370b811a",[4060,4065,4068],{"_20":4061,"_90":271,"_272":4062,"_141":4064},"04aa9f7b969c",[4063],"f517c4c","So I had to go into the developer space and talk about Constant Contact versus MailChimp.",{"_20":4066,"_90":271,"_272":4067,"_141":2602},"dd74e7dc06fd",[],{"_20":4069,"_90":271,"_272":4070,"_141":4072},"059e83764ab0",[4071],"7e0b98d","And everybody is like, oh why don't I just use MailChimp?",[4074,4076],{"_20":4063,"_90":2618,"_2619":4075},"00:10:51.680",{"_20":4071,"_90":2618,"_2619":4077},"00:10:55.120",{"_20":4079,"_90":266,"_267":4080,"_275":4094,"_277":278},"0b1982c188ca",[4081,4086,4089],{"_20":4082,"_90":271,"_272":4083,"_141":4085},"d90325bb7939",[4084],"8f3efc6","When I went to it with another company called MuleSoft, we had to go against small companies, you know, like Informatica, Dell, Microsoft, Oracle.",{"_20":4087,"_90":271,"_272":4088,"_141":2602},"1d914f88bae4",[],{"_20":4090,"_90":271,"_272":4091,"_141":4093},"79fb9b341c2b",[4092],"6ae78da","Companies have well-established programs, but the thing that helped us was our community.",[4095,4097],{"_20":4084,"_90":2618,"_2619":4096},"00:10:57.740",{"_20":4092,"_90":2618,"_2619":4098},"00:11:06.740",{"_20":4100,"_90":266,"_267":4101,"_275":4123,"_277":278},"92e35ee45478",[4102,4107,4110,4115,4118],{"_20":4103,"_90":271,"_272":4104,"_141":4106},"b7e1e57ea8c1",[4105],"67ed88c","Not only did they validate the product, not only did they help us improve, and we also said open source, they contribute open source, but they started being that, you know, the voice for MuleSoft.",{"_20":4108,"_90":271,"_272":4109,"_141":2602},"4e1f8545e939",[],{"_20":4111,"_90":271,"_272":4112,"_141":4114},"662a7ca792c9",[4113],"25652a4","And pretty soon MuleSoft became actually the number one iPaaS in the market.",{"_20":4116,"_90":271,"_272":4117,"_141":2602},"5f84ec21c72e",[],{"_20":4119,"_90":271,"_272":4120,"_141":4122},"50de2acb3afc",[4121],"e02081c","And you know our community took a large responsibility for that.",[4124,4126,4128],{"_20":4105,"_90":2618,"_2619":4125},"00:11:10.820",{"_20":4113,"_90":2618,"_2619":4127},"00:11:19.440",{"_20":4121,"_90":2618,"_2619":4129},"00:11:23.600",{"_20":4131,"_90":266,"_267":4132,"_275":4141,"_277":278},"35d7ac07af64",[4133,4137],{"_20":4134,"_90":271,"_272":4135,"_141":2988},"5bff67409f78",[4136,582],"352ae6f",{"_20":4138,"_90":271,"_272":4139,"_141":4140},"7e125ff83c67",[4136]," Good point.",[4142],{"_20":4136,"_90":2618,"_2619":4143},"00:11:28.560",{"_20":4145,"_90":266,"_267":4146,"_275":4163,"_277":278},"ebb40accbb0b",[4147,4151,4155,4158],{"_20":4148,"_90":271,"_272":4149,"_141":3162},"cc447c6b07ba",[4150,582],"3e4bcbb",{"_20":4152,"_90":271,"_272":4153,"_141":4154},"d1f394f5e822",[4150]," One of the interesting things about community also is I don't know if it's ever really too late, but I think when you have a product online, right, and you have people using it and they're interacting with it.",{"_20":4156,"_90":271,"_272":4157,"_141":2602},"aa507caf9e8e",[],{"_20":4159,"_90":271,"_272":4160,"_141":4162},"3f676092306c",[4161],"b8f2291","A community is probably going to grow around that organically, even if you don't do anything to manage it, right?",[4164,4166],{"_20":4150,"_90":2618,"_2619":4165},"00:11:31.520",{"_20":4161,"_90":2618,"_2619":4167},"00:11:43.360",{"_20":4169,"_90":266,"_267":4170,"_275":4192,"_277":278},"875557ecdc22",[4171,4176,4179,4184,4187],{"_20":4172,"_90":271,"_272":4173,"_141":4175},"273677271818",[4174],"319aa94","And the benefit that you get out of actively managing the community is that you get to leverage that feed.",{"_20":4177,"_90":271,"_272":4178,"_141":2602},"ed7a9b183029",[],{"_20":4180,"_90":271,"_272":4181,"_141":4183},"5b669a2c12ff",[4182],"ef516d5","And you get to set the tone and sort of impart your values and morals on the community and sort of help guide and shape it.",{"_20":4185,"_90":271,"_272":4186,"_141":2602},"5d54dad6f145",[],{"_20":4188,"_90":271,"_272":4189,"_141":4191},"d5add1d1a771",[4190],"3a26d1d","So you can, you know, that stuff is out there and it's just sort of waiting for you to",[4193,4195,4197],{"_20":4174,"_90":2618,"_2619":4194},"00:11:49.440",{"_20":4182,"_90":2618,"_2619":4196},"00:11:56.060",{"_20":4190,"_90":2618,"_2619":4198},"00:12:02.940",{"_20":4200,"_90":266,"_267":4201,"_275":4218,"_277":278},"b67db324ee29",[4202,4206,4210,4213],{"_20":4203,"_90":271,"_272":4204,"_141":3187},"55f9e1ffea57",[4205,582],"f1643d6",{"_20":4207,"_90":271,"_272":4208,"_141":4209},"39441ed3a17c",[4205]," I'd also add that for example, if you're starting out and nobody knows who you are, for example, the startup that I worked at in the beginning days, it was like some people knew our open source projects, but",{"_20":4211,"_90":271,"_272":4212,"_141":2602},"e0eec61ea6c9",[],{"_20":4214,"_90":271,"_272":4215,"_141":4217},"d602899ea0b4",[4216],"7845017","no one knew our brand and we just had really smart people who were great teachers, and so I just said, let's just put this online.",[4219,4221],{"_20":4205,"_90":2618,"_2619":4220},"00:12:09.699",{"_20":4216,"_90":2618,"_2619":4222},"00:12:21.640",{"_20":4224,"_90":266,"_267":4225,"_275":4247,"_277":278},"0bf22053d14e",[4226,4231,4234,4239,4242],{"_20":4227,"_90":271,"_272":4228,"_141":4230},"651b048f5364",[4229],"1bde99d","Let's just get these talks out there.",{"_20":4232,"_90":271,"_272":4233,"_141":2602},"97a980291a1b",[],{"_20":4235,"_90":271,"_272":4236,"_141":4238},"9df1091a5bde",[4237],"00d10e0","And more and more people are just like, I never heard of you, but wow, you guys really understand Kubernetes.",{"_20":4240,"_90":271,"_272":4241,"_141":2602},"9577cf30fab3",[],{"_20":4243,"_90":271,"_272":4244,"_141":4246},"4271144fa429",[4245],"8055846","You really seem to know what's going on.",[4248,4250,4252],{"_20":4229,"_90":2618,"_2619":4249},"00:12:28.880",{"_20":4237,"_90":2618,"_2619":4251},"00:12:30.319",{"_20":4245,"_90":2618,"_2619":4253},"00:12:34.560",{"_20":4255,"_90":266,"_267":4256,"_275":4270,"_277":278},"715709bd8800",[4257,4262,4265],{"_20":4258,"_90":271,"_272":4259,"_141":4261},"6439f68a4489",[4260],"d825030","So it was just sort of like, let's create thought leadership around the things that whatever this community was going to become cared about, right?",{"_20":4263,"_90":271,"_272":4264,"_141":2602},"a191dc1a4fe0",[],{"_20":4266,"_90":271,"_272":4267,"_141":4269},"e056c45aca98",[4268],"e2442e4","We would just sort of like, hey, you're getting started, you want this information, here's some best practices, here's some information we haven't found out there.",[4271,4273],{"_20":4260,"_90":2618,"_2619":4272},"00:12:35.920",{"_20":4268,"_90":2618,"_2619":4274},"00:12:43.620",{"_20":4276,"_90":266,"_267":4277,"_275":4291,"_277":278},"5fe974a4d798",[4278,4283,4286],{"_20":4279,"_90":271,"_272":4280,"_141":4282},"a5284fbadf31",[4281],"34849dc","And that just became place and then using Slack, people would just come and chat with us and we were so readily available to help, and people might be like, how do you guys make your money?",{"_20":4284,"_90":271,"_272":4285,"_141":2602},"a143c833d8cf",[],{"_20":4287,"_90":271,"_272":4288,"_141":4290},"17c4f2122eca",[4289],"74ec196","Well we're just helping people, you know, we're just trying to figure out what the need is.",[4292,4294],{"_20":4281,"_90":2618,"_2619":4293},"00:12:50.660",{"_20":4289,"_90":2618,"_2619":4295},"00:13:00.880",{"_20":4297,"_90":266,"_267":4298,"_275":4320,"_277":278},"552d7be6282a",[4299,4304,4307,4312,4315],{"_20":4300,"_90":271,"_272":4301,"_141":4303},"965d2a6b2667",[4302],"3b1c30d","And then your community and the community's ways of getting connected could be something beyond your product.",{"_20":4305,"_90":271,"_272":4306,"_141":2602},"36b48f7a5073",[],{"_20":4308,"_90":271,"_272":4309,"_141":4311},"d490335719fa",[4310],"29f258f","So when I was at New Relic I realized like, oh, in a similar way, people were like, okay, the brand was pretty well established by the time I joined, but they were like, oh, you guys are just really smart, your",{"_20":4313,"_90":271,"_272":4314,"_141":2602},"71d1293791cf",[],{"_20":4316,"_90":271,"_272":4317,"_141":4319},"e780f3d9e730",[4318],"5e687f3","engineers are really cool, you guys are doing cool stuff, I wanna meet people.",[4321,4323,4325],{"_20":4302,"_90":2618,"_2619":4322},"00:13:04.440",{"_20":4310,"_90":2618,"_2619":4324},"00:13:11.960",{"_20":4318,"_90":2618,"_2619":4326},"00:13:23.340",{"_20":4328,"_90":266,"_267":4329,"_275":4351,"_277":278},"2c710310cb00",[4330,4335,4338,4343,4346],{"_20":4331,"_90":271,"_272":4332,"_141":4334},"6f22c1afd388",[4333],"398c9f8","But then also when we would bring together",{"_20":4336,"_90":271,"_272":4337,"_141":2602},"8492082436e9",[],{"_20":4339,"_90":271,"_272":4340,"_141":4342},"c0e1c2cedd3c",[4341],"c9a88a8","New Relic customers, they're like, oh, I really want to go because other New Relic customers have similar problems that I have and they're also like really smart people and they're doing cool things and sometimes we would have the customers speak and like",{"_20":4344,"_90":271,"_272":4345,"_141":2602},"4370eb88c12b",[],{"_20":4347,"_90":271,"_272":4348,"_141":4350},"982530285062",[4349],"3d3159c","you know, I really want to know how they're solving the similar problem that we have.",[4352,4354,4356],{"_20":4333,"_90":2618,"_2619":4353},"00:13:26.300",{"_20":4341,"_90":2618,"_2619":4355},"00:13:30.060",{"_20":4349,"_90":2618,"_2619":4357},"00:13:41.420",{"_20":4359,"_90":266,"_267":4360,"_275":4374,"_277":278},"41932813b6ea",[4361,4366,4369],{"_20":4362,"_90":271,"_272":4363,"_141":4365},"c14d918f0358",[4364],"a7b20e7","And so it's not just about product.",{"_20":4367,"_90":271,"_272":4368,"_141":2602},"d9d17d40613f",[],{"_20":4370,"_90":271,"_272":4371,"_141":4373},"1d8ccd8fecba",[4372],"720db3a","It's just how do you build something that's meaningful that people want help on.",[4375,4377],{"_20":4364,"_90":2618,"_2619":4376},"00:13:45.040",{"_20":4372,"_90":2618,"_2619":4378},"00:13:47.760",{"_20":4380,"_90":266,"_267":4381,"_275":4386,"_277":394},"dd6fa6cda488",[4382],{"_20":4383,"_90":271,"_272":4384,"_141":4385},"5090f77b6dd5",[],"Proving Value Beyond Revenue",[],{"_20":4388,"_90":266,"_267":4389,"_275":4414,"_277":278},"76905e1498d9",[4390,4394,4398,4401,4406,4409],{"_20":4391,"_90":271,"_272":4392,"_141":2988},"4c5ba9029c97",[4393,582],"34304c5",{"_20":4395,"_90":271,"_272":4396,"_141":4397},"c5ea216cc44c",[4393]," Yeah. Now you brought up an interesting topic.",{"_20":4399,"_90":271,"_272":4400,"_141":2602},"5dc23887a772",[],{"_20":4402,"_90":271,"_272":4403,"_141":4405},"afd10d29eb49",[4404],"0a52d70","Use the word money. Did I say the word money?",{"_20":4407,"_90":271,"_272":4408,"_141":2602},"865b67f01755",[],{"_20":4410,"_90":271,"_272":4411,"_141":4413},"b02d526e8916",[4412],"ce67f49","Yeah, you used the word money and it triggered something as I was thinking about it because money, it's always important whenever we talk about it.",[4415,4417,4419],{"_20":4393,"_90":2618,"_2619":4416},"00:13:52.080",{"_20":4404,"_90":2618,"_2619":4418},"00:13:54.640",{"_20":4412,"_90":2618,"_2619":4420},"00:13:58.860",{"_20":4422,"_90":266,"_267":4423,"_275":4437,"_277":278},"2bbfba43ef85",[4424,4429,4432],{"_20":4425,"_90":271,"_272":4426,"_141":4428},"43336b94c645",[4427],"27d4da0","It's interesting. We were working with a customer and they decided to build a community first.",{"_20":4430,"_90":271,"_272":4431,"_141":2602},"dfc58185d360",[],{"_20":4433,"_90":271,"_272":4434,"_141":4436},"2c180e093780",[4435],"e247f4d","And by building a community first, they didn't end up getting a ticketing system.",[4438,4440],{"_20":4427,"_90":2618,"_2619":4439},"00:14:06.380",{"_20":4435,"_90":2618,"_2619":4441},"00:14:13.959",{"_20":4443,"_90":266,"_267":4444,"_275":4458,"_277":278},"41a5cad55410",[4445,4450,4453],{"_20":4446,"_90":271,"_272":4447,"_141":4449},"084487e4204f",[4448],"56270b5","They got the feedback from the product that we were talking about",{"_20":4451,"_90":271,"_272":4452,"_141":2602},"df872b7b36b7",[],{"_20":4454,"_90":271,"_272":4455,"_141":4457},"7f9454537232",[4456],"ec5e459","through the community and offset the cost for the support that way.",[4459,4461],{"_20":4448,"_90":2618,"_2619":4460},"00:14:17.639",{"_20":4456,"_90":2618,"_2619":4462},"00:14:20.339",{"_20":4464,"_90":266,"_267":4465,"_275":4487,"_277":278},"92c5bd84ac14",[4466,4471,4474,4479,4482],{"_20":4467,"_90":271,"_272":4468,"_141":4470},"9085b1646e2d",[4469],"896694c","But as we're talking about money, I want to ask about how do you prove value.",{"_20":4472,"_90":271,"_272":4473,"_141":2602},"1e685870e421",[],{"_20":4475,"_90":271,"_272":4476,"_141":4478},"2b7ac9b1f804",[4477],"bdd1a67","Right, as we're talking with companies getting started with community, right?",{"_20":4480,"_90":271,"_272":4481,"_141":2602},"28bc67929442",[],{"_20":4483,"_90":271,"_272":4484,"_141":4486},"ded423f66951",[4485],"f4667b6","If revenue, the word, I'll use the word revenue, is important thing.",[4488,4490,4492],{"_20":4469,"_90":2618,"_2619":4489},"00:14:24.500",{"_20":4477,"_90":2618,"_2619":4491},"00:14:29.640",{"_20":4485,"_90":2618,"_2619":4493},"00:14:34.040",{"_20":4495,"_90":266,"_267":4496,"_275":4510,"_277":278},"cee7c18dc69e",[4497,4502,4505],{"_20":4498,"_90":271,"_272":4499,"_141":4501},"fd3bc96b9021",[4500],"2a0860d","How do you prove value other than revenue?",{"_20":4503,"_90":271,"_272":4504,"_141":2602},"80b5a85a0130",[],{"_20":4506,"_90":271,"_272":4507,"_141":4509},"fc65e109732b",[4508],"6169821","And how do you think about ROI and value on both sides of the community equation?",[4511,4513],{"_20":4500,"_90":2618,"_2619":4512},"00:14:38.760",{"_20":4508,"_90":2618,"_2619":4514},"00:14:41.259",{"_20":4516,"_90":266,"_267":4517,"_275":4523,"_277":278},"fcbf77485054",[4518],{"_20":4519,"_90":271,"_272":4520,"_141":4522},"f64f051146f1",[4521],"0836876","We'll start with Mike.",[4524],{"_20":4521,"_90":2618,"_2619":4525},"00:14:45.819",{"_20":4527,"_90":266,"_267":4528,"_275":4545,"_277":278},"25579f4f1b29",[4529,4533,4537,4540],{"_20":4530,"_90":271,"_272":4531,"_141":3106},"7921db0f00b0",[4532,582],"87f1815",{"_20":4534,"_90":271,"_272":4535,"_141":4536},"1618eee2c745",[4532]," So I think the first thing that happens is we're talking about revenue is sometimes we look at revenue and we look at money and we look at communities and we say like, that's a bad word.",{"_20":4538,"_90":271,"_272":4539,"_141":2602},"b95276df0aa7",[],{"_20":4541,"_90":271,"_272":4542,"_141":4544},"d0f0f9a55782",[4543],"a04b970","We can't say money. We can't say revenue.",[4546,4548],{"_20":4532,"_90":2618,"_2619":4547},"00:14:47.579",{"_20":4543,"_90":2618,"_2619":4549},"00:14:54.639",{"_20":4551,"_90":266,"_267":4552,"_275":4574,"_277":278},"fc91a4056bd6",[4553,4558,4561,4566,4569],{"_20":4554,"_90":271,"_272":4555,"_141":4557},"526ff94bc454",[4556],"abe5172","The reality is the community has to be symbiotic.",{"_20":4559,"_90":271,"_272":4560,"_141":2602},"29a08a6aa96a",[],{"_20":4562,"_90":271,"_272":4563,"_141":4565},"524b1a6fcc90",[4564],"591b58a","It has to be something that benefits your developers and your community.",{"_20":4567,"_90":271,"_272":4568,"_141":2602},"8458dd146aa1",[],{"_20":4570,"_90":271,"_272":4571,"_141":4573},"6817c66b03b2",[4572],"6dab1ce","But the company also has to make money, otherwise the company's not gonna be around very long to support the community.",[4575,4577,4579],{"_20":4556,"_90":2618,"_2619":4576},"00:14:57.360",{"_20":4564,"_90":2618,"_2619":4578},"00:14:59.759",{"_20":4572,"_90":2618,"_2619":4580},"00:15:02.800",{"_20":4582,"_90":266,"_267":4583,"_275":4605,"_277":278},"faeea2e7af44",[4584,4589,4592,4597,4600],{"_20":4585,"_90":271,"_272":4586,"_141":4588},"3d02ab9e9eee",[4587],"eb6636b","In terms of how do you prove value, I think there's two different types of values that you have.",{"_20":4590,"_90":271,"_272":4591,"_141":2602},"9616b7c1155a",[],{"_20":4593,"_90":271,"_272":4594,"_141":4596},"0aef0f18b24f",[4595],"9f60795","You have indirect value and direct value, which comes from the community.",{"_20":4598,"_90":271,"_272":4599,"_141":2602},"bbf97de49e56",[],{"_20":4601,"_90":271,"_272":4602,"_141":4604},"463bed1557c6",[4603],"e1c4cad","Indirect value can be things you kind of alluded to, support tickets, having your community hop on and help support people so you don't have to double your support staff to manage that.",[4606,4608,4610],{"_20":4587,"_90":2618,"_2619":4607},"00:15:07.980",{"_20":4595,"_90":2618,"_2619":4609},"00:15:12.220",{"_20":4603,"_90":2618,"_2619":4611},"00:15:15.660",{"_20":4613,"_90":266,"_267":4614,"_275":4636,"_277":278},"9cb3f23d81aa",[4615,4620,4623,4628,4631],{"_20":4616,"_90":271,"_272":4617,"_141":4619},"e403dfc53ffc",[4618],"4285527","As a small startup, I'm guessing you probably don't have a lot of people to write documentation.",{"_20":4621,"_90":271,"_272":4622,"_141":2602},"0f84f9145010",[],{"_20":4624,"_90":271,"_272":4625,"_141":4627},"0668865b4f26",[4626],"49819d5","And if you've ever decided to use like an enterprise-grade ESB that requires Java and you're a Ruby developer that just got out of boot camp.",{"_20":4629,"_90":271,"_272":4630,"_141":2602},"5c029046dabc",[],{"_20":4632,"_90":271,"_272":4633,"_141":4635},"bddc0ced33b9",[4634],"b288a28","Probably not a great thing. We need a lot of people in our community that actually created that content, how-tos, tutorials.",[4637,4639,4641],{"_20":4618,"_90":2618,"_2619":4638},"00:15:25.680",{"_20":4626,"_90":2618,"_2619":4640},"00:15:29.680",{"_20":4634,"_90":2618,"_2619":4642},"00:15:38.459",{"_20":4644,"_90":266,"_267":4645,"_275":4659,"_277":278},"39f5b4bd3e9d",[4646,4651,4654],{"_20":4647,"_90":271,"_272":4648,"_141":4650},"26b422b0e910",[4649],"663fb18","So you can look at the indirect value, which is the content that your community is creating, the support your community is providing, basically the headcount that they're giving you",{"_20":4652,"_90":271,"_272":4653,"_141":2602},"dda79a59161f",[],{"_20":4655,"_90":271,"_272":4656,"_141":4658},"b333e44bdc2e",[4657],"f02dee5","free of charge to make your product be successful.",[4660,4662],{"_20":4649,"_90":2618,"_2619":4661},"00:15:42.940",{"_20":4657,"_90":2618,"_2619":4663},"00:15:50.839",{"_20":4665,"_90":266,"_267":4666,"_275":4696,"_277":278},"3dd1c5e2a665",[4667,4672,4675,4680,4683,4688,4691],{"_20":4668,"_90":271,"_272":4669,"_141":4671},"c1cf68f766cb",[4670],"f00a1d3","And then you can look at direct value.",{"_20":4673,"_90":271,"_272":4674,"_141":2602},"7f6c3f1722dc",[],{"_20":4676,"_90":271,"_272":4677,"_141":4679},"15976eec6278",[4678],"8d8b184","So if you're an API company, you can look at things and say, okay, is the API increasing things like retention?",{"_20":4681,"_90":271,"_272":4682,"_141":2602},"3695d7f7f561",[],{"_20":4684,"_90":271,"_272":4685,"_141":4687},"0d7fa1c3e9f4",[4686],"8a5cabe","Are customers sticking around longer?",{"_20":4689,"_90":271,"_272":4690,"_141":2602},"6535557654b2",[],{"_20":4692,"_90":271,"_272":4693,"_141":4695},"bcbe0d0fa80c",[4694],"370c8c2","How is it affecting the churn and how's it affecting upsell?",[4697,4699,4701,4703],{"_20":4670,"_90":2618,"_2619":4698},"00:15:53.959",{"_20":4678,"_90":2618,"_2619":4700},"00:15:55.720",{"_20":4686,"_90":2618,"_2619":4702},"00:16:02.220",{"_20":4694,"_90":2618,"_2619":4704},"00:16:04.620",{"_20":4706,"_90":266,"_267":4707,"_275":4713,"_277":278},"b72276341790",[4708],{"_20":4709,"_90":271,"_272":4710,"_141":4712},"b2cbfab41649",[4711],"aadc09e","For open source, if you're afraid to sell to your open source community.",[4714],{"_20":4711,"_90":2618,"_2619":4715},"00:16:08.940",{"_20":4717,"_90":266,"_267":4718,"_275":4740,"_277":2033},"38f63ed64081",[4719,4724,4727,4732,4735],{"_20":4720,"_90":271,"_272":4721,"_141":4723},"7dc8a7950b08",[4722],"ce247b2","If you can't sell to your open source community, that's a company problem.",{"_20":4725,"_90":271,"_272":4726,"_141":2602},"adea252e8102",[],{"_20":4728,"_90":271,"_272":4729,"_141":4731},"2abefa6bec68",[4730],"f18dede","That's not a community problem. Because your open source community should be excited about the products that you're creating.",{"_20":4733,"_90":271,"_272":4734,"_141":2602},"4bd4c4ab48dd",[],{"_20":4736,"_90":271,"_272":4737,"_141":4739},"60bdf3ca56e6",[4738],"1132cbb","They should be excited about using it.",[4741,4743,4745],{"_20":4722,"_90":2618,"_2619":4742},"00:16:13.899",{"_20":4730,"_90":2618,"_2619":4744},"00:16:17.180",{"_20":4738,"_90":2618,"_2619":4746},"00:16:21.660",{"_20":4748,"_90":266,"_267":4749,"_275":4763,"_277":278},"608167d1f135",[4750,4755,4758],{"_20":4751,"_90":271,"_272":4752,"_141":4754},"1931935dd256",[4753],"f818db7","For example, as I have MuleSoft, we have many people who use open source MuleSoft only because they couldn't pay $80,000 per core for MuleSoft ESB.",{"_20":4756,"_90":271,"_272":4757,"_141":2602},"78fa0ea729fd",[],{"_20":4759,"_90":271,"_272":4760,"_141":4762},"cb7df6aa8d00",[4761],"68f60d4","The second they got into large enterprise companies, like, man, we should be using the enterprise version.",[4764,4766],{"_20":4753,"_90":2618,"_2619":4765},"00:16:23.259",{"_20":4761,"_90":2618,"_2619":4767},"00:16:32.220",{"_20":4769,"_90":266,"_267":4770,"_275":4792,"_277":278},"6f6ab6800b73",[4771,4776,4779,4784,4787],{"_20":4772,"_90":271,"_272":4773,"_141":4775},"39b593795e2a",[4774],"e001aa9","So you can also look at what's the pipe generated from the content that your community is creating or that you're driving from the community.",{"_20":4777,"_90":271,"_272":4778,"_141":2602},"5ab81238f1aa",[],{"_20":4780,"_90":271,"_272":4781,"_141":4783},"fcf9998e6928",[4782],"79c80f1","With that said, pipe should not be something you measure your community by.",{"_20":4785,"_90":271,"_272":4786,"_141":2602},"dbd4c33d2729",[],{"_20":4788,"_90":271,"_272":4789,"_141":4791},"243ccc7b1044",[4790],"10d267a","Like don't hold it as a sales value because the second you do that it becomes a bunch of leads instead of again creating a bunch of relationships that you can work with.",[4793,4795,4797],{"_20":4774,"_90":2618,"_2619":4794},"00:16:36.819",{"_20":4782,"_90":2618,"_2619":4796},"00:16:43.779",{"_20":4790,"_90":2618,"_2619":4798},"00:16:46.980",{"_20":4800,"_90":266,"_267":4801,"_275":4810,"_277":278},"9de6a9b542c9",[4802,4806],{"_20":4803,"_90":271,"_272":4804,"_141":2988},"dfa3dcb8cc17",[4805,582],"c1233f2",{"_20":4807,"_90":271,"_272":4808,"_141":4809},"8827a12a052f",[4805]," And developers value trust. And if we're talking about developer communities, which I think we are, you violate that trust once and it's gone.",[4811],{"_20":4805,"_90":2618,"_2619":4812},"00:16:55.100",{"_20":4814,"_90":266,"_267":4815,"_275":4821,"_277":278},"de60491c6cf3",[4816],{"_20":4817,"_90":271,"_272":4818,"_141":4820},"50ea0c5e93fa",[4819],"3d89488","Right. So anything else on that thing.",[4822],{"_20":4819,"_90":2618,"_2619":4823},"00:17:02.120",{"_20":4825,"_90":266,"_267":4826,"_275":4843,"_277":278},"c055bbbef2dd",[4827,4831,4835,4838],{"_20":4828,"_90":271,"_272":4829,"_141":3162},"9bb53c6bc278",[4830,582],"99f3736",{"_20":4832,"_90":271,"_272":4833,"_141":4834},"eafcba46ca4d",[4830]," That's a really good point about trust.",{"_20":4836,"_90":271,"_272":4837,"_141":2602},"930777f6ccdb",[],{"_20":4839,"_90":271,"_272":4840,"_141":4842},"f12c52186599",[4841],"1c18d65","I personally tend to be really conservative with regards to sort of like the value of community.",[4844,4846],{"_20":4830,"_90":2618,"_2619":4845},"00:17:05.240",{"_20":4841,"_90":2618,"_2619":4847},"00:17:06.920",{"_20":4849,"_90":266,"_267":4850,"_275":4864,"_277":278},"79606860c0b2",[4851,4856,4859],{"_20":4852,"_90":271,"_272":4853,"_141":4855},"d8041572ea7a",[4854],"db77e31","So you know you don't want to have it relate directly to money, but at the same time you kind of want to know like, is the stuff that I'm doing actually making money for my company?",{"_20":4857,"_90":271,"_272":4858,"_141":2602},"a8cf56982008",[],{"_20":4860,"_90":271,"_272":4861,"_141":4863},"f1df79c343dd",[4862],"c5e0f12","Like I want to be able to prove that at some point.",[4865,4867],{"_20":4854,"_90":2618,"_2619":4866},"00:17:12.520",{"_20":4862,"_90":2618,"_2619":4868},"00:17:20.640",{"_20":4870,"_90":266,"_267":4871,"_275":4893,"_277":2033},"24cc203d730b",[4872,4877,4880,4885,4888],{"_20":4873,"_90":271,"_272":4874,"_141":4876},"1c58617cc05b",[4875],"efd8a5f","And so we've actually been able to do that at a few of the startups that I've been at where when we have events we'll ask for people's email addresses optionally and if we create content then we'll actually measure click-throughs to the SaaS and",{"_20":4878,"_90":271,"_272":4879,"_141":2602},"fdde87fb5b2d",[],{"_20":4881,"_90":271,"_272":4882,"_141":4884},"aebf6798a0fe",[4883],"b582070","if you cohort out the people who are attending your meetups and conferences and reading your content, then we would tend to see something like between six or ten",{"_20":4886,"_90":271,"_272":4887,"_141":2602},"301f74709f1d",[],{"_20":4889,"_90":271,"_272":4890,"_141":4892},"97bb04ab868f",[4891],"49f040e","dollars in revenue for every dollar that we spent on community.",[4894,4896,4898],{"_20":4875,"_90":2618,"_2619":4895},"00:17:22.960",{"_20":4883,"_90":2618,"_2619":4897},"00:17:34.820",{"_20":4891,"_90":2618,"_2619":4899},"00:17:43.760",{"_20":4901,"_90":266,"_267":4902,"_275":4908,"_277":278},"4bd063b922a4",[4903],{"_20":4904,"_90":271,"_272":4905,"_141":4907},"986f24ffdf86",[4906],"76dfefe","And so even though that shouldn't be the primary focus, I love to sort of like use tactics like that in order to be able to prove it to ourselves, to our own team and to the execs.",[4909],{"_20":4906,"_90":2618,"_2619":4910},"00:17:47.520",{"_20":4912,"_90":266,"_267":4913,"_275":4930,"_277":278},"dcfe31939236",[4914,4918,4922,4925],{"_20":4915,"_90":271,"_272":4916,"_141":2988},"b76574bb02a3",[4917,582],"040e144",{"_20":4919,"_90":271,"_272":4920,"_141":4921},"460371e6a2e2",[4917]," That was a great, I'm pretty sure I saw three people write that down.",{"_20":4923,"_90":271,"_272":4924,"_141":2602},"6d66f048a39b",[],{"_20":4926,"_90":271,"_272":4927,"_141":4929},"de56a7f285e4",[4928],"50ee9d7","That's a great metric. Yeah. Anything to add?",[4931,4933],{"_20":4917,"_90":2618,"_2619":4932},"00:17:58.080",{"_20":4928,"_90":2618,"_2619":4934},"00:18:01.360",{"_20":4936,"_90":266,"_267":4937,"_275":4954,"_277":278},"6cbc03fc7eeb",[4938,4942,4946,4949],{"_20":4939,"_90":271,"_272":4940,"_141":3187},"242fcdf5cd47",[4941,582],"fa009d6",{"_20":4943,"_90":271,"_272":4944,"_141":4945},"f9d900309744",[4941]," So when I did more straightforward developer marketing, you know, we would basically have dev advocates and community managers",{"_20":4947,"_90":271,"_272":4948,"_141":2602},"3654eb90e097",[],{"_20":4950,"_90":271,"_272":4951,"_141":4953},"e8802b11a2bd",[4952],"43352d9","who would create assets and they would kind of go through more, you know, traditional like, you know, you want to touch people seven times or fourteen times or whatever to the sale, you know, that's how you add value.",[4955,4957],{"_20":4941,"_90":2618,"_2619":4956},"00:18:05.480",{"_20":4952,"_90":2618,"_2619":4958},"00:18:15.640",{"_20":4960,"_90":266,"_267":4961,"_275":4983,"_277":278},"bcc2633ffdfb",[4962,4967,4970,4975,4978],{"_20":4963,"_90":271,"_272":4964,"_141":4966},"d8bceb1183cf",[4965],"3fdd4ff","And then more specifically we might have dev advocates who are thought leaders in the Java space or in the Ruby space and in the Python space and so, you know, even though you might th",{"_20":4968,"_90":271,"_272":4969,"_141":2602},"8b0fc3511eef",[],{"_20":4971,"_90":271,"_272":4972,"_141":4974},"a80908e4b9bb",[4973],"0129401","Frequently happens, right? Like you have a platform or something, you're like, well, the experience should be the same across all these different language communities.",{"_20":4976,"_90":271,"_272":4977,"_141":2602},"b7ee466e9646",[],{"_20":4979,"_90":271,"_272":4980,"_141":4982},"41e0b7e938ab",[4981],"7a22710","You know, you have to understand that each one of them is going to connect in a different way.",[4984,4986,4988],{"_20":4965,"_90":2618,"_2619":4985},"00:18:25.000",{"_20":4973,"_90":2618,"_2619":4987},"00:18:36.320",{"_20":4981,"_90":2618,"_2619":4989},"00:18:42.720",{"_20":4991,"_90":266,"_267":4992,"_275":5006,"_277":278},"77d24f3a4e87",[4993,4998,5001],{"_20":4994,"_90":271,"_272":4995,"_141":4997},"704ec51565bb",[4996],"83e5319","And if you go and say like, oh hey, the new version of X came out and you know, hey, this is cool about it and this is annoying, isn't it?",{"_20":4999,"_90":271,"_272":5000,"_141":2602},"15c7e2b9052a",[],{"_20":5002,"_90":271,"_272":5003,"_141":5005},"1cbb2d4369e2",[5004],"3ac4441","And you can have that real, you know, authentic conversation, you're gonna build that relationship better and that's why you can often build out your teams that way.",[5007,5009],{"_20":4996,"_90":2618,"_2619":5008},"00:18:47.040",{"_20":5004,"_90":2618,"_2619":5010},"00:18:53.260",{"_20":5012,"_90":266,"_267":5013,"_275":5035,"_277":278},"fe1f3e502b6f",[5014,5019,5022,5027,5030],{"_20":5015,"_90":271,"_272":5016,"_141":5018},"50205d29ef69",[5017],"cd3f548","So those metrics were fairly straightforward.",{"_20":5020,"_90":271,"_272":5021,"_141":2602},"678ee1c04c96",[],{"_20":5023,"_90":271,"_272":5024,"_141":5026},"65213b483c7a",[5025],"a3a3c1d","Currently in our role, like I said, it's developer experience, so there's a lot more of like poking around in different directions.",{"_20":5028,"_90":271,"_272":5029,"_141":2602},"c5168b1a5c43",[],{"_20":5031,"_90":271,"_272":5032,"_141":5034},"8ded6ff8a3fb",[5033],"57054ce","And the tools are not perfect.",[5036,5038,5040],{"_20":5017,"_90":2618,"_2619":5037},"00:19:01.120",{"_20":5025,"_90":2618,"_2619":5039},"00:19:04.640",{"_20":5033,"_90":2618,"_2619":5041},"00:19:10.060",{"_20":5043,"_90":266,"_267":5044,"_275":5066,"_277":278},"1bd51bf9e9a3",[5045,5050,5053,5058,5061],{"_20":5046,"_90":271,"_272":5047,"_141":5049},"13755daf8dd4",[5048],"a26cd64","But I consider when I manage my team, you know, they're doing all these things and I'm just like making sure that it's in Salesforce, that every little thing, 'cause when you find out when these big deals come through, you know, I'm just like, well what happened?",{"_20":5051,"_90":271,"_272":5052,"_141":2602},"33bcfc10277f",[],{"_20":5054,"_90":271,"_272":5055,"_141":5057},"e1eeb0b42585",[5056],"b661d53","And it'll often be like one of the steps was they came to your Slack channel and someone was really nice to them.",{"_20":5059,"_90":271,"_272":5060,"_141":2602},"e379617016b2",[],{"_20":5062,"_90":271,"_272":5063,"_141":5065},"e8f86ec93b15",[5064],"b2fd213","And it's just like, I'm like, you gotta notice that.",[5067,5069,5071],{"_20":5048,"_90":2618,"_2619":5068},"00:19:13.420",{"_20":5056,"_90":2618,"_2619":5070},"00:19:25.060",{"_20":5064,"_90":2618,"_2619":5072},"00:19:30.740",{"_20":5074,"_90":266,"_267":5075,"_275":5097,"_277":278},"4bc5d53ffbde",[5076,5081,5084,5089,5092],{"_20":5077,"_90":271,"_272":5078,"_141":5080},"13ff5e5aa7e8",[5079],"abf13a8","Like that is so important because at that point, actually I had a team member, one of the guys reports to me, he was doing something, he was tinkering around with something in a Kubernetes space",{"_20":5082,"_90":271,"_272":5083,"_141":2602},"93cf8bfc84a1",[],{"_20":5085,"_90":271,"_272":5086,"_141":5088},"6111f6f3eee0",[5087],"1639da7","and went to a chat room and the first person was super mean, just like talked him down and said, why you've been asking these dumb questions?",{"_20":5090,"_90":271,"_272":5091,"_141":2602},"611f84d2d542",[],{"_20":5093,"_90":271,"_272":5094,"_141":5096},"fc79019873bc",[5095],"7457150","You know, and he's more resilient and all that, but just imagine like all the ways that someone might engage with you and that touch point is so important.",[5098,5100,5102],{"_20":5079,"_90":2618,"_2619":5099},"00:19:34.260",{"_20":5087,"_90":2618,"_2619":5101},"00:19:45.500",{"_20":5095,"_90":2618,"_2619":5103},"00:19:51.860",{"_20":5105,"_90":266,"_267":5106,"_275":5120,"_277":278},"5f32d39a5e14",[5107,5112,5115],{"_20":5108,"_90":271,"_272":5109,"_141":5111},"459357566162",[5110],"3c7e10e","So I see it as my job to make sure that these things all get measured and followed as much as we can because you know a lot of it's just quite gray.",{"_20":5113,"_90":271,"_272":5114,"_141":2602},"f1d94b9909c8",[],{"_20":5116,"_90":271,"_272":5117,"_141":5119},"cc19ccfa0a98",[5118],"cd3eec8","And then from there, yeah, I'm in a space where we're small, we'll take money from anywhere, we're quite creative and it helps us have some surprises.",[5121,5123],{"_20":5110,"_90":2618,"_2619":5122},"00:19:58.899",{"_20":5118,"_90":2618,"_2619":5124},"00:20:08.020",{"_20":5126,"_90":266,"_267":5127,"_275":5149,"_277":278},"cbd9beae2c8a",[5128,5133,5136,5141,5144],{"_20":5129,"_90":271,"_272":5130,"_141":5132},"6cccd1e0faaf",[5131],"749dc53","Like, you know, we kinda don't know sometimes where some things are going to go.",{"_20":5134,"_90":271,"_272":5135,"_141":2602},"87040aa6eb09",[],{"_20":5137,"_90":271,"_272":5138,"_141":5140},"eeccb33c1846",[5139],"b46963b","Like we'll build something because we see a problem and then it'll turn out that a big company decides, oh, we want to invest in you because you're actually going to solve a much bigger problem that we didn't see.",{"_20":5142,"_90":271,"_272":5143,"_141":2602},"19f0ba4e9cc2",[],{"_20":5145,"_90":271,"_272":5146,"_141":5148},"d0661725d887",[5147],"d3eff50","We've created open source projects where a large company is like, we want that to work with our thing and we're willing to pay you for it.",[5150,5152,5154],{"_20":5131,"_90":2618,"_2619":5151},"00:20:19.320",{"_20":5139,"_90":2618,"_2619":5153},"00:20:23.880",{"_20":5147,"_90":2618,"_2619":5155},"00:20:34.860",{"_20":5157,"_90":266,"_267":5158,"_275":5180,"_277":278},"713b9e592f61",[5159,5164,5167,5172,5175],{"_20":5160,"_90":271,"_272":5161,"_141":5163},"6c088e529a3e",[5162],"2c25e69","And if we were probably more established, we'd say, well, we don't really have channels for that, where we're like, thank you, yes, please.",{"_20":5165,"_90":271,"_272":5166,"_141":2602},"b4153cfee563",[],{"_20":5168,"_90":271,"_272":5169,"_141":5171},"9cc8f22387a1",[5170],"5edc52f","You know, wow, like this is how DX is paying for itself.",{"_20":5173,"_90":271,"_272":5174,"_141":2602},"1b71d4151537",[],{"_20":5176,"_90":271,"_272":5177,"_141":5179},"c745844c971c",[5178],"e3e37eb","So it's kind of the wild frontier a little bit.",[5181,5183,5185],{"_20":5162,"_90":2618,"_2619":5182},"00:20:42.020",{"_20":5170,"_90":2618,"_2619":5184},"00:20:47.700",{"_20":5178,"_90":2618,"_2619":5186},"00:20:51.700",{"_20":5188,"_90":266,"_267":5189,"_275":5194,"_277":394},"9c22e582c6c2",[5190],{"_20":5191,"_90":271,"_272":5192,"_141":5193},"a4dcc1372e5e",[],"Selling Without Breaking Trust",[],{"_20":5196,"_90":266,"_267":5197,"_275":5214,"_277":278},"5015ef80d51c",[5198,5202,5206,5209],{"_20":5199,"_90":271,"_272":5200,"_141":2988},"4403742dd4fa",[5201,582],"ed2383c",{"_20":5203,"_90":271,"_272":5204,"_141":5205},"51c1fd9727a4",[5201]," That's pretty cool. We covered a lot of, I mean, the use cases you covered developer marketing.",{"_20":5207,"_90":271,"_272":5208,"_141":2602},"0d0493befcf4",[],{"_20":5210,"_90":271,"_272":5211,"_141":5213},"bcb2883e98ad",[5212],"de65a5f","We covered developer experience. You know developer relations is thrown in there.",[5215,5217],{"_20":5201,"_90":2618,"_2619":5216},"00:20:54.560",{"_20":5212,"_90":2618,"_2619":5218},"00:20:59.360",{"_20":5220,"_90":266,"_267":5221,"_275":5243,"_277":278},"5ea6d4f2b2d4",[5222,5227,5230,5235,5238],{"_20":5223,"_90":271,"_272":5224,"_141":5226},"59b035a37d23",[5225],"4f11eab","You know, Mike was talking about providing value and Dave, both on top line and bottom line revenue.",{"_20":5228,"_90":271,"_272":5229,"_141":2602},"dd625903ca27",[],{"_20":5231,"_90":271,"_272":5232,"_141":5234},"09c9aaaa392a",[5233],"7e20f33","So saving money by offsetting support and then delivering real value in terms of pipeline on the developer marketing side, you know, back to the company as well.",{"_20":5236,"_90":271,"_272":5237,"_141":2602},"cfc02b03aac8",[],{"_20":5239,"_90":271,"_272":5240,"_141":5242},"fbb9273250e1",[5241],"c20845b","So being able to see your pipeline and capturing that stuff in Salesforce.",[5244,5246,5248],{"_20":5225,"_90":2618,"_2619":5245},"00:21:03.160",{"_20":5233,"_90":2618,"_2619":5247},"00:21:08.920",{"_20":5241,"_90":2618,"_2619":5249},"00:21:17.860",{"_20":5251,"_90":266,"_267":5252,"_275":5266,"_277":278},"ce6fd505e340",[5253,5258,5261],{"_20":5254,"_90":271,"_272":5255,"_141":5257},"e5ee285c0ba8",[5256],"205d4f7","If we can agree on one thing, it's that the community is a good source of data for your company.",{"_20":5259,"_90":271,"_272":5260,"_141":2602},"27eca1571a3b",[],{"_20":5262,"_90":271,"_272":5263,"_141":5265},"6d3d80e9e20a",[5264],"ad18f58","And what you can do with that data to help build what we would call a healthy and vibrant community, I want to explore that just a little bit.",[5267,5269],{"_20":5256,"_90":2618,"_2619":5268},"00:21:21.260",{"_20":5264,"_90":2618,"_2619":5270},"00:21:25.100",{"_20":5272,"_90":266,"_267":5273,"_275":5295,"_277":278},"c6ce0148d592",[5274,5279,5282,5287,5290],{"_20":5275,"_90":271,"_272":5276,"_141":5278},"e81cfb617497",[5277],"6f94375","So when you think about that line between your community and your sales and marketing efforts, right, is there something inherently bad about selling to your",{"_20":5280,"_90":271,"_272":5281,"_141":2602},"36b4f91c0d6c",[],{"_20":5283,"_90":271,"_272":5284,"_141":5286},"874ec10b5809",[5285],"fc8d5db","community, and are there effective ways of cultivating communities that are vibrant and healthy but are still receptive to being able to be sold, or from that dev marketing side.",{"_20":5288,"_90":271,"_272":5289,"_141":2602},"cfa175ada1da",[],{"_20":5291,"_90":271,"_272":5292,"_141":5294},"8fabc941fa63",[5293],"4ffd725","I'd like to explore that just a little bit.",[5296,5298,5300],{"_20":5277,"_90":2618,"_2619":5297},"00:21:32.940",{"_20":5285,"_90":2618,"_2619":5299},"00:21:44.560",{"_20":5293,"_90":2618,"_2619":5301},"00:21:53.720",{"_20":5303,"_90":266,"_267":5304,"_275":5310,"_277":278},"df04da7d575b",[5305],{"_20":5306,"_90":271,"_272":5307,"_141":5309},"951040e5b3c4",[5308],"5905357","It's very, very bad, and you should all be ashamed of yourself.",[5311],{"_20":5308,"_90":2618,"_2619":5312},"00:21:55.640",{"_20":5314,"_90":266,"_267":5315,"_275":5324,"_277":278},"fd3089f11fb8",[5316,5320],{"_20":5317,"_90":271,"_272":5318,"_141":3187},"70ed3c535b49",[5319,582],"5572905",{"_20":5321,"_90":271,"_272":5322,"_141":5323},"cb189e5b75e2",[5319]," That's it.",[5325],{"_20":5319,"_90":2618,"_2619":5326},"00:22:00.840",{"_20":5328,"_90":266,"_267":5329,"_275":5338,"_277":278},"ea80570191f6",[5330,5334],{"_20":5331,"_90":271,"_272":5332,"_141":2988},"faf28ef9762a",[5333,582],"b429e7b",{"_20":5335,"_90":271,"_272":5336,"_141":5337},"2e68855c3a62",[5333]," I disagree.",[5339],{"_20":5333,"_90":2618,"_2619":5340},"00:22:02.760",{"_20":5342,"_90":266,"_267":5343,"_275":5360,"_277":2033},"f0550a37c5b7",[5344,5348,5352,5355],{"_20":5345,"_90":271,"_272":5346,"_141":3106},"b5dd4cec9d22",[5347,582],"ff960df",{"_20":5349,"_90":271,"_272":5350,"_141":5351},"3b5d775f4b72",[5347]," No, I think the important thing, remember, right off the bat: it's not your community.",{"_20":5353,"_90":271,"_272":5354,"_141":2602},"6107539c376c",[],{"_20":5356,"_90":271,"_272":5357,"_141":5359},"6c5a984c7740",[5358],"5511046","It's their community. When you're a part of a community of people who are excited about whether it's your product or open source, you should be making it very clear this is your community, we're a part of it.",[5361,5363],{"_20":5347,"_90":2618,"_2619":5362},"00:22:06.940",{"_20":5358,"_90":2618,"_2619":5364},"00:22:11.179",{"_20":5366,"_90":266,"_267":5367,"_275":5389,"_277":278},"a024dc2952e2",[5368,5373,5376,5381,5384],{"_20":5369,"_90":271,"_272":5370,"_141":5372},"12b3849baeda",[5371],"b9eebf1","And so just like any community that you're part of, you don't want to cross that line and go from saying, you know, I'm a part of this community, I'm gonna contribute to this community.",{"_20":5374,"_90":271,"_272":5375,"_141":2602},"93d90a95fd6a",[],{"_20":5377,"_90":271,"_272":5378,"_141":5380},"db03c536a2a1",[5379],"4eeb091","a lot of give and take, to becoming, this is us and you work for us and you're giving us free labor.",{"_20":5382,"_90":271,"_272":5383,"_141":2602},"3ac7656350b4",[],{"_20":5385,"_90":271,"_272":5386,"_141":5388},"c1ec02a22091",[5387],"2902848","The second you cross that line, you're in trouble.",[5390,5392,5394],{"_20":5371,"_90":2618,"_2619":5391},"00:22:22.960",{"_20":5379,"_90":2618,"_2619":5393},"00:22:30.460",{"_20":5387,"_90":2618,"_2619":5395},"00:22:34.620",{"_20":5397,"_90":266,"_267":5398,"_275":5420,"_277":278},"a43b93910e34",[5399,5404,5407,5412,5415],{"_20":5400,"_90":271,"_272":5401,"_141":5403},"4d5b087ee657",[5402],"fc336f3","And that's actually one of the funny things.",{"_20":5405,"_90":271,"_272":5406,"_141":2602},"0ee8350e6321",[],{"_20":5408,"_90":271,"_272":5409,"_141":5411},"08aaa6a09885",[5410],"72f636e","I've had companies where my sales teams were not allowed to talk to our developers.",{"_20":5413,"_90":271,"_272":5414,"_141":2602},"48af736d6972",[],{"_20":5416,"_90":271,"_272":5417,"_141":5419},"1af8088b863d",[5418],"cf87753","At all. You know, if a developer reached out to a sales guy, that's perfectly fine.",[5421,5423,5425],{"_20":5402,"_90":2618,"_2619":5422},"00:22:37.180",{"_20":5410,"_90":2618,"_2619":5424},"00:22:39.420",{"_20":5418,"_90":2618,"_2619":5426},"00:22:43.679",{"_20":5428,"_90":266,"_267":5429,"_275":5451,"_277":278},"4a5193adfe9a",[5430,5435,5438,5443,5446],{"_20":5431,"_90":271,"_272":5432,"_141":5434},"81ed8ea8fc9c",[5433],"37b6fff","I've had other companies, you know, MuleSoft and RingCentral are two great, great examples where our sales team would come to developer events.",{"_20":5436,"_90":271,"_272":5437,"_141":2602},"d70cdb46ea24",[],{"_20":5439,"_90":271,"_272":5440,"_141":5442},"c96d0d1f8bb8",[5441],"6adf781","And they came to developer events because they want to be part of the community.",{"_20":5444,"_90":271,"_272":5445,"_141":2602},"379d090953a6",[],{"_20":5447,"_90":271,"_272":5448,"_141":5450},"f97cdcbcd595",[5449],"37251c6","They understood that the developer wasn't going to be the decision maker who's going to sign a million-dollar contract or buy a brand new phone system for their company, but they saw the value of that community.",[5452,5454,5456],{"_20":5433,"_90":2618,"_2619":5453},"00:22:48.720",{"_20":5441,"_90":2618,"_2619":5455},"00:22:55.960",{"_20":5449,"_90":2618,"_2619":5457},"00:22:58.520",{"_20":5459,"_90":266,"_267":5460,"_275":5490,"_277":278},"321d4c1965cc",[5461,5466,5469,5474,5477,5482,5485],{"_20":5462,"_90":271,"_272":5463,"_141":5465},"cfa79f6aeeb5",[5464],"89e4eb7","And they would start having these conversations.",{"_20":5467,"_90":271,"_272":5468,"_141":2602},"0fb271e70b25",[],{"_20":5470,"_90":271,"_272":5471,"_141":5473},"f313112671d5",[5472],"7b4d0fe","And so they could build that trust, build that respect.",{"_20":5475,"_90":271,"_272":5476,"_141":2602},"963918d5c807",[],{"_20":5478,"_90":271,"_272":5479,"_141":5481},"462e26445744",[5480],"5527afb","And then the developer would be the one going, hey, I really think this could benefit our company.",{"_20":5483,"_90":271,"_272":5484,"_141":2602},"9d21ef7b3ab4",[],{"_20":5486,"_90":271,"_272":5487,"_141":5489},"617843e33818",[5488],"845cfab","Why don't you talk to so-and-so?",[5491,5493,5495,5497],{"_20":5464,"_90":2618,"_2619":5492},"00:23:08.780",{"_20":5472,"_90":2618,"_2619":5494},"00:23:10.540",{"_20":5480,"_90":2618,"_2619":5496},"00:23:12.860",{"_20":5488,"_90":2618,"_2619":5498},"00:23:16.700",{"_20":5500,"_90":266,"_267":5501,"_275":5523,"_277":278},"82b5242f1ad9",[5502,5507,5510,5515,5518],{"_20":5503,"_90":271,"_272":5504,"_141":5506},"008f511f602d",[5505],"8357467","So again, why I say that if you can't sell to your community, it's not a community problem, it's a company problem.",{"_20":5508,"_90":271,"_272":5509,"_141":2602},"833384e6c89f",[],{"_20":5511,"_90":271,"_272":5512,"_141":5514},"b5446778fcca",[5513],"f6a9a32","What I mean by that is how you're engaging the community and how you're approaching the community.",{"_20":5516,"_90":271,"_272":5517,"_141":2602},"3cc5377946e2",[],{"_20":5519,"_90":271,"_272":5520,"_141":5522},"818716aadbd9",[5521],"5987718","And again, if it's not symbiotic, if you're not going with the mindset that we're here to help developers.",[5524,5526,5528],{"_20":5505,"_90":2618,"_2619":5525},"00:23:18.300",{"_20":5513,"_90":2618,"_2619":5527},"00:23:23.180",{"_20":5521,"_90":2618,"_2619":5529},"00:23:27.020",{"_20":5531,"_90":266,"_267":5532,"_275":5554,"_277":278},"4ae66c790d32",[5533,5538,5541,5546,5549],{"_20":5534,"_90":271,"_272":5535,"_141":5537},"0bcf5bf41bab",[5536],"d8fe284","MuleSoft, when we built our community, we actually had a rule that we would not do anything that did not benefit developers directly.",{"_20":5539,"_90":271,"_272":5540,"_141":2602},"66561a2681e4",[],{"_20":5542,"_90":271,"_272":5543,"_141":5545},"cf49ea4138e9",[5544],"2ecc9cb","And so one of the big challenges there is we decided to ask them for ratings and reviews on MuleSoft's technology.",{"_20":5547,"_90":271,"_272":5548,"_141":2602},"001b8396541d",[],{"_20":5550,"_90":271,"_272":5551,"_141":5553},"d3c547c4e75e",[5552],"d46f709","That was our big test, is even asking for like, would you rate us on G2 Crowd or Capterra, was like, are we crossing the line?",[5555,5557,5559],{"_20":5536,"_90":2618,"_2619":5556},"00:23:31.560",{"_20":5544,"_90":2618,"_2619":5558},"00:23:38.760",{"_20":5552,"_90":2618,"_2619":5560},"00:23:44.600",{"_20":5562,"_90":266,"_267":5563,"_275":5593,"_277":278},"5c3092a32d4f",[5564,5569,5572,5577,5580,5585,5588],{"_20":5565,"_90":271,"_272":5566,"_141":5568},"e87cfbb7e1ff",[5567],"748e889","Turned out no, because we built that trust, we built that relationship.",{"_20":5570,"_90":271,"_272":5571,"_141":2602},"99799a9cb83e",[],{"_20":5573,"_90":271,"_272":5574,"_141":5576},"9e35d2e8a235",[5575],"433e327","They're like, yeah, I'll rate you, and what else can we do to support you?",{"_20":5578,"_90":271,"_272":5579,"_141":2602},"2692f019a12b",[],{"_20":5581,"_90":271,"_272":5582,"_141":5584},"14fb6501e06b",[5583],"c2c0e8b","But again, that was our first rule.",{"_20":5586,"_90":271,"_272":5587,"_141":2602},"ff87fc0aac7f",[],{"_20":5589,"_90":271,"_272":5590,"_141":5592},"5442f53d87fa",[5591],"9c93c0a","Whatever we do has to support the developer, has to help the developer, has to help them in their career.",[5594,5596,5598,5600],{"_20":5567,"_90":2618,"_2619":5595},"00:23:51.080",{"_20":5575,"_90":2618,"_2619":5597},"00:23:53.880",{"_20":5583,"_90":2618,"_2619":5599},"00:23:56.740",{"_20":5591,"_90":2618,"_2619":5601},"00:23:58.180",{"_20":5603,"_90":266,"_267":5604,"_275":5618,"_277":278},"4a23422eed01",[5605,5610,5613],{"_20":5606,"_90":271,"_272":5607,"_141":5609},"cafc151b1d18",[5608],"f5defb7","And the other thing to keep in mind, and I'll stop talking.",{"_20":5611,"_90":271,"_272":5612,"_141":2602},"6c70902fa547",[],{"_20":5614,"_90":271,"_272":5615,"_141":5617},"49ae103e60a3",[5616],"dbf4e21","which will be a first for me, is that when you're marketing your company, when you're getting involved with the community, the real competition for your developers is not your competitor.",[5619,5621],{"_20":5608,"_90":2618,"_2619":5620},"00:24:02.820",{"_20":5616,"_90":2618,"_2619":5622},"00:24:05.940",{"_20":5624,"_90":266,"_267":5625,"_275":5639,"_277":2033},"0f4461cf472f",[5626,5631,5634],{"_20":5627,"_90":271,"_272":5628,"_141":5630},"f81c6fa33a7a",[5629],"3727975","It's time with their family, it's time with their friends, it's watching Netflix, it's spending time with their kids, it's learning new technologies.",{"_20":5632,"_90":271,"_272":5633,"_141":2602},"b93d4be06ec1",[],{"_20":5635,"_90":271,"_272":5636,"_141":5638},"094367ed0a27",[5637],"95d40e6","So there has to be really good reason for them to be involved in your community and spending time focusing on you versus all those other things.",[5640,5642],{"_20":5629,"_90":2618,"_2619":5641},"00:24:16.540",{"_20":5637,"_90":2618,"_2619":5643},"00:24:23.500",{"_20":5645,"_90":266,"_267":5646,"_275":5655,"_277":278},"dc99f961c7a0",[5647,5651],{"_20":5648,"_90":271,"_272":5649,"_141":2988},"ce272e531521",[5650,582],"de56d79",{"_20":5652,"_90":271,"_272":5653,"_141":5654},"3fa20b0a3725",[5650]," Interesting perspective. Thanks, Dave. You kind of jumped in there kinda early, so you wanna give us your perspective?",[5656],{"_20":5650,"_90":2618,"_2619":5657},"00:24:30.980",{"_20":5659,"_90":266,"_267":5660,"_275":5685,"_277":278},"beb1d7d236cf",[5661,5665,5669,5672,5677,5680],{"_20":5662,"_90":271,"_272":5663,"_141":3162},"e8770e3dd590",[5664,582],"f91dd6a",{"_20":5666,"_90":271,"_272":5667,"_141":5668},"5cd1a41966fd",[5664]," I was joking. No, you know I think when I first started in dev advocacy, I was very much on the sort of like anti-selling, anti sort of pushing product",{"_20":5670,"_90":271,"_272":5671,"_141":2602},"3d6d46c5481d",[],{"_20":5673,"_90":271,"_272":5674,"_141":5676},"3b58aa9efa90",[5675],"6b237ab","and just focus on the technology and education.",{"_20":5678,"_90":271,"_272":5679,"_141":2602},"e6899f92a148",[],{"_20":5681,"_90":271,"_272":5682,"_141":5684},"c91ccc46394c",[5683],"3d93921","And I still have a lot of respect for people who do that, but I remember one time I was hosting a meetup.",[5686,5688,5690],{"_20":5664,"_90":2618,"_2619":5687},"00:24:36.900",{"_20":5675,"_90":2618,"_2619":5689},"00:24:47.740",{"_20":5683,"_90":2618,"_2619":5691},"00:24:50.200",{"_20":5693,"_90":266,"_267":5694,"_275":5708,"_277":278},"e5e1710dc397",[5695,5700,5703],{"_20":5696,"_90":271,"_272":5697,"_141":5699},"4d5420cb3f8d",[5698],"0e7c899","I was working for a startup called PubNub and I gave my sort of like intro presentation, the main presenter gave their presentation and then afterwards I was like, okay, good night everybody.",{"_20":5701,"_90":271,"_272":5702,"_141":2602},"17008eedcd3a",[],{"_20":5704,"_90":271,"_272":5705,"_141":5707},"0b3fb6e239d0",[5706],"712cdbb","And then I was talking to somebody afterwards and they were like, so what is PubNub?",[5709,5711],{"_20":5698,"_90":2618,"_2619":5710},"00:24:55.000",{"_20":5706,"_90":2618,"_2619":5712},"00:25:05.240",{"_20":5714,"_90":266,"_267":5715,"_275":5729,"_277":278},"1eae41f38de1",[5716,5721,5724],{"_20":5717,"_90":271,"_272":5718,"_141":5720},"2f0cde7d141d",[5719],"a3e65ac","And I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm doing my job very poorly right now.",{"_20":5722,"_90":271,"_272":5723,"_141":2602},"10b31542e3bb",[],{"_20":5725,"_90":271,"_272":5726,"_141":5728},"a2fd995932c8",[5727],"bb4820f","If you came to the office, you know, like you RSVP to the meetup, you came to the office and I didn't tell you what the company does.",[5730,5732],{"_20":5719,"_90":2618,"_2619":5731},"00:25:10.220",{"_20":5727,"_90":2618,"_2619":5733},"00:25:14.700",{"_20":5735,"_90":266,"_267":5736,"_275":5750,"_277":278},"1c7c3116d0e5",[5737,5742,5745],{"_20":5738,"_90":271,"_272":5739,"_141":5741},"d07cd2f9562e",[5740],"f21eaa6","So developers do have a certain amount of latent interest in your company, your products, the best practices that you use to engineer your product and sort of like what it does.",{"_20":5743,"_90":271,"_272":5744,"_141":2602},"fd8d1122132f",[],{"_20":5746,"_90":271,"_272":5747,"_141":5749},"c2f4dd7423a2",[5748],"19c66d4","And you're doing them a bit of a disservice if you ignore that completely.",[5751,5753],{"_20":5740,"_90":2618,"_2619":5752},"00:25:21.040",{"_20":5748,"_90":2618,"_2619":5754},"00:25:31.400",{"_20":5756,"_90":266,"_267":5757,"_275":5771,"_277":278},"a928dbd73f15",[5758,5763,5766],{"_20":5759,"_90":271,"_272":5760,"_141":5762},"7f1d120aabd0",[5761],"a551bfb","So there's a certain amount of education that you have to do about your company",{"_20":5764,"_90":271,"_272":5765,"_141":2602},"8b0f2b52596d",[],{"_20":5767,"_90":271,"_272":5768,"_141":5770},"e224e90e1b3d",[5769],"b921a00","product. Yeah.",[5772,5774],{"_20":5761,"_90":2618,"_2619":5773},"00:25:35.160",{"_20":5769,"_90":2618,"_2619":5775},"00:25:39.160",{"_20":5777,"_90":266,"_267":5778,"_275":5787,"_277":278},"a671221dc303",[5779,5783],{"_20":5780,"_90":271,"_272":5781,"_141":2988},"45c377942914",[5782,582],"f8efc08",{"_20":5784,"_90":271,"_272":5785,"_141":5786},"ef2ffe898fec",[5782]," Anything to add?",[5788],{"_20":5782,"_90":2618,"_2619":5789},"00:25:40.600",{"_20":5791,"_90":266,"_267":5792,"_275":5809,"_277":278},"d5d1d9ec189c",[5793,5797,5801,5804],{"_20":5794,"_90":271,"_272":5795,"_141":3187},"e97ca31ad569",[5796,582],"19293f8",{"_20":5798,"_90":271,"_272":5799,"_141":5800},"f129abce6114",[5796]," So I would say, I mean I'm sure we all have products in our house and software that we use that we absolutely love.",{"_20":5802,"_90":271,"_272":5803,"_141":2602},"4907a7651fed",[],{"_20":5805,"_90":271,"_272":5806,"_141":5808},"1a0115cc8258",[5807],"5a97eb9","That we've told people about, right?",[5810,5812],{"_20":5796,"_90":2618,"_2619":5811},"00:25:41.560",{"_20":5807,"_90":2618,"_2619":5813},"00:25:49.360",{"_20":5815,"_90":266,"_267":5816,"_275":5830,"_277":278},"e8d1e1e6e85d",[5817,5822,5825],{"_20":5818,"_90":271,"_272":5819,"_141":5821},"0039cf9e655b",[5820],"2bf3c49","Like, oh, you got, you know, I use this software and you're so excited that someone's actually gonna listen to how you configured, blah, blah, blah, and set it up, right?",{"_20":5823,"_90":271,"_272":5824,"_141":2602},"02316008d27f",[],{"_20":5826,"_90":271,"_272":5827,"_141":5829},"d8dc5bdb2988",[5828],"cfcc408","So we have these things that we do love.",[5831,5833],{"_20":5820,"_90":2618,"_2619":5832},"00:25:51.600",{"_20":5828,"_90":2618,"_2619":5834},"00:25:58.900",{"_20":5836,"_90":266,"_267":5837,"_275":5851,"_277":278},"ae17a5cc9916",[5838,5843,5846],{"_20":5839,"_90":271,"_272":5840,"_141":5842},"11128f1ea9df",[5841],"4e158aa","And so the most authentic way to do developer relations and experience is to plug into solving those problems and getting people excited, right?",{"_20":5844,"_90":271,"_272":5845,"_141":2602},"4cb800c5d9b8",[],{"_20":5847,"_90":271,"_272":5848,"_141":5850},"fe46786d14b9",[5849],"b7e14e8","I mean, selling is just a way to connect to make sure that the people who really want your stuff and will get excited about your stuff find out about it.",[5852,5854],{"_20":5841,"_90":2618,"_2619":5853},"00:26:00.980",{"_20":5849,"_90":2618,"_2619":5855},"00:26:09.919",{"_20":5857,"_90":266,"_267":5858,"_275":5872,"_277":278},"6e03492fc91c",[5859,5864,5867],{"_20":5860,"_90":271,"_272":5861,"_141":5863},"583656a3d3db",[5862],"b6460ef","So I think that's where I try to ground myself, and like the fact that I even ended up at VMware was that at the time I was sort of trying to figure out what to do and I'd found this role and",{"_20":5865,"_90":271,"_272":5866,"_141":2602},"86ca566110a6",[],{"_20":5868,"_90":271,"_272":5869,"_141":5871},"c992f190e494",[5870],"20b73f9","my partner at the time, now he does partner engineering stuff, but he was just a software engineer and I said, oh, you know, what's this company VMware?",[5873,5875],{"_20":5862,"_90":2618,"_2619":5874},"00:26:19.360",{"_20":5870,"_90":2618,"_2619":5876},"00:26:31.340",{"_20":5878,"_90":266,"_267":5879,"_275":5909,"_277":278},"ca905f24aa12",[5880,5885,5888,5893,5896,5901,5904],{"_20":5881,"_90":271,"_272":5882,"_141":5884},"b41cc453db40",[5883],"f8cc3ae","And he was like,",{"_20":5886,"_90":271,"_272":5887,"_141":2602},"bcedc57645bd",[],{"_20":5889,"_90":271,"_272":5890,"_141":5892},"2ee7f29a8646",[5891],"912b1eb","oh my God, Workstation so amaz",{"_20":5894,"_90":271,"_272":5895,"_141":2602},"a459e0345071",[],{"_20":5897,"_90":271,"_272":5898,"_141":5900},"595333a119df",[5899],"797ef3b","he went on for thirty minutes, like, I love Workstation, this is why it's so great.",{"_20":5902,"_90":271,"_272":5903,"_141":2602},"10c4f824b081",[],{"_20":5905,"_90":271,"_272":5906,"_141":5908},"239c6f16e265",[5907],"572cb19","And he was evangelizing, right?",[5910,5912,5914,5916],{"_20":5883,"_90":2618,"_2619":5911},"00:26:40.059",{"_20":5891,"_90":2618,"_2619":5913},"00:26:40.919",{"_20":5899,"_90":2618,"_2619":5915},"00:26:43.240",{"_20":5907,"_90":2618,"_2619":5917},"00:26:46.760",{"_20":5919,"_90":266,"_267":5920,"_275":5942,"_277":278},"779684b50ccf",[5921,5926,5929,5934,5937],{"_20":5922,"_90":271,"_272":5923,"_141":5925},"6a0e6d33c685",[5924],"2b1bb28","I mean, at some point, probably somebody sold him that product.",{"_20":5927,"_90":271,"_272":5928,"_141":2602},"5101db2c0aa8",[],{"_20":5930,"_90":271,"_272":5931,"_141":5933},"1fc1f6ffd699",[5932],"ef02327","He found out about it and all that, but it's a joyful experience.",{"_20":5935,"_90":271,"_272":5936,"_141":2602},"111f68352910",[],{"_20":5938,"_90":271,"_272":5939,"_141":5941},"08fe463005b6",[5940],"23f6b50","So don't think we have to be that shy about that when that's the meaningful connection we're trying to make",[5943,5945,5947],{"_20":5924,"_90":2618,"_2619":5944},"00:26:49.640",{"_20":5932,"_90":2618,"_2619":5946},"00:26:54.240",{"_20":5940,"_90":2618,"_2619":5948},"00:26:58.080",{"_20":5950,"_90":266,"_267":5951,"_275":5957,"_277":278},"add9e839f63d",[5952],{"_20":5953,"_90":271,"_272":5954,"_141":5956},"1029d0db2fbb",[5955],"d059078","And sometimes they even feel like, you know, they're not charging me enough for this thing that's just so life changing and you know they might donate if there's like a side project or they might want to help in certain ways.",[5958],{"_20":5955,"_90":2618,"_2619":5959},"00:27:08.160",{"_20":5961,"_90":266,"_267":5962,"_275":5984,"_277":278},"dc87c9571e87",[5963,5968,5971,5976,5979],{"_20":5964,"_90":271,"_272":5965,"_141":5967},"b85f4d31ca3b",[5966],"cf673c9","And so like in our case right now, the whole last year, we would do this Thursday series and I was like, oh, let's do these office hours on, if you're an app developer and you're thinking about Kubernetes, like what kinds of topics you know",{"_20":5969,"_90":271,"_272":5970,"_141":2602},"da956a48f2e5",[],{"_20":5972,"_90":271,"_272":5973,"_141":5975},"954520a1459d",[5974],"8d3d48c","would be of concern for you?",{"_20":5977,"_90":271,"_272":5978,"_141":2602},"42a4118c730e",[],{"_20":5980,"_90":271,"_272":5981,"_141":5983},"691d37602685",[5982],"41e6bf9","And these people would just come every week and they're really small, really small conversation groups.",[5985,5987,5989],{"_20":5966,"_90":2618,"_2619":5986},"00:27:18.720",{"_20":5974,"_90":2618,"_2619":5988},"00:27:30.700",{"_20":5982,"_90":2618,"_2619":5990},"00:27:32.540",{"_20":5992,"_90":266,"_267":5993,"_275":6007,"_277":278},"5f99dfe8c0c2",[5994,5999,6002],{"_20":5995,"_90":271,"_272":5996,"_141":5998},"8a25463aaf86",[5997],"e42053d","slow burn and in fast forward I see this email and there's this guy who's like, 'cause he just like we have no money, we have no money and finally he's just like, see this email thread.",{"_20":6000,"_90":271,"_272":6001,"_141":2602},"17ccb038e11d",[],{"_20":6003,"_90":271,"_272":6004,"_141":6006},"a4d7bfd5431d",[6005],"21fba7d","There's like a chief architect involved and he's just like totally like, we gotta buy from these people.",[6008,6010],{"_20":5997,"_90":2618,"_2619":6009},"00:27:37.760",{"_20":6005,"_90":2618,"_2619":6011},"00:27:45.600",{"_20":6013,"_90":266,"_267":6014,"_275":6028,"_277":278},"684d51d4dd93",[6015,6020,6023],{"_20":6016,"_90":271,"_272":6017,"_141":6019},"2b3bcadb73c0",[6018],"7eebda1","They are so great and their product is great and this and that.",{"_20":6021,"_90":271,"_272":6022,"_141":2602},"39ff429304a7",[],{"_20":6024,"_90":271,"_272":6025,"_141":6027},"8676f7683da7",[6026],"0eaeee9","I just thought, we were just providing a service and they loved us and they're advocating for us.",[6029,6031],{"_20":6018,"_90":2618,"_2619":6030},"00:27:50.940",{"_20":6026,"_90":2618,"_2619":6032},"00:27:53.500",{"_20":6034,"_90":266,"_267":6035,"_275":6040,"_277":394},"0d25be86a0a4",[6036],{"_20":6037,"_90":271,"_272":6038,"_141":6039},"ed1d31788668",[],"Champions, Badges, and Thanks",[],{"_20":6042,"_90":266,"_267":6043,"_275":6068,"_277":278},"e54c6da805ea",[6044,6048,6052,6055,6060,6063],{"_20":6045,"_90":271,"_272":6046,"_141":2988},"5680b64435f9",[6047,582],"ea57eec",{"_20":6049,"_90":271,"_272":6050,"_141":6051},"1911026dde09",[6047]," I have to poll the audience.",{"_20":6053,"_90":271,"_272":6054,"_141":2602},"f101ce966169",[],{"_20":6056,"_90":271,"_272":6057,"_141":6059},"5b1592f85868",[6058],"83167a3","I know I can see your hand so you don't have to turn the lights on.",{"_20":6061,"_90":271,"_272":6062,"_141":2602},"38eb164cafbc",[],{"_20":6064,"_90":271,"_272":6065,"_141":6067},"f89afea62ac0",[6066],"b14ca39","How many of you would love it if people told you that they need to pay you more for your products?",[6069,6071,6073],{"_20":6047,"_90":2618,"_2619":6070},"00:28:00.720",{"_20":6058,"_90":2618,"_2619":6072},"00:28:02.000",{"_20":6066,"_90":2618,"_2619":6074},"00:28:04.960",{"_20":6076,"_90":266,"_267":6077,"_275":6091,"_277":278},"a5fba59d0099",[6078,6083,6086],{"_20":6079,"_90":271,"_272":6080,"_141":6082},"3ca964d0e0d7",[6081],"7a3b567","Yeah, valuable, right? That's a lot of value built in, right?",{"_20":6084,"_90":271,"_272":6085,"_141":2602},"7bbecc9e5692",[],{"_20":6087,"_90":271,"_272":6088,"_141":6090},"d2363d555734",[6089],"51fc852","That's real world stuff. So I think, you know, if we're talking about improving the bottom line, that's a great way to do it.",[6092,6094],{"_20":6081,"_90":2618,"_2619":6093},"00:28:11.040",{"_20":6089,"_90":2618,"_2619":6095},"00:28:13.840",{"_20":6097,"_90":266,"_267":6098,"_275":6112,"_277":278},"59ddf772c4f8",[6099,6104,6107],{"_20":6100,"_90":271,"_272":6101,"_141":6103},"0dfcba77e2fa",[6102],"3058856","And a common thread between what the three of you were saying was building trust with the people in your community, back to the relationships thing.",{"_20":6105,"_90":271,"_272":6106,"_141":2602},"0d0240f6b754",[],{"_20":6108,"_90":271,"_272":6109,"_141":6111},"7e90c0767c1d",[6110],"b61a92c","And you got right into one of the next topics, which is advocacy or champions or whatever you want to call it.",[6113,6115],{"_20":6102,"_90":2618,"_2619":6114},"00:28:19.640",{"_20":6110,"_90":2618,"_2619":6116},"00:28:28.160",{"_20":6118,"_90":266,"_267":6119,"_275":6133,"_277":278},"5a70644714fe",[6120,6125,6128],{"_20":6121,"_90":271,"_272":6122,"_141":6124},"91c9a63e114c",[6123],"838222e","So running programs and building that trust with your developer community, tell me a little bit about how you think about community champions or advocates.",{"_20":6126,"_90":271,"_272":6127,"_141":2602},"156a33f8270e",[],{"_20":6129,"_90":271,"_272":6130,"_141":6132},"f53b1ec29e52",[6131],"b707618","I mean, Tamao, you just talked a little bit about that.",[6134,6136],{"_20":6123,"_90":2618,"_2619":6135},"00:28:35.280",{"_20":6131,"_90":2618,"_2619":6137},"00:28:45.280",{"_20":6139,"_90":266,"_267":6140,"_275":6170,"_277":278},"79e953437f78",[6141,6146,6149,6154,6157,6162,6165],{"_20":6142,"_90":271,"_272":6143,"_141":6145},"6be8dbe9fca1",[6144],"9425c0e","And when do you gamify that?",{"_20":6147,"_90":271,"_272":6148,"_141":2602},"d9091fcfe82b",[],{"_20":6150,"_90":271,"_272":6151,"_141":6153},"13e22ef3d71a",[6152],"6a97098","How do you codify that status?",{"_20":6155,"_90":271,"_272":6156,"_141":2602},"2281a4996af4",[],{"_20":6158,"_90":271,"_272":6159,"_141":6161},"4cc94444ed81",[6160],"25a7460","There's the word that I wanted to get you with.",{"_20":6163,"_90":271,"_272":6164,"_141":2602},"c7d8b48aaea3",[],{"_20":6166,"_90":271,"_272":6167,"_141":6169},"ccb52a1392f6",[6168],"f7f0bcc","How do you codify that status and how do you manage those relationships with those advocates or champions once they get there?",[6171,6173,6175,6177],{"_20":6144,"_90":2618,"_2619":6172},"00:28:49.139",{"_20":6152,"_90":2618,"_2619":6174},"00:28:51.860",{"_20":6160,"_90":2618,"_2619":6176},"00:28:54.260",{"_20":6168,"_90":2618,"_2619":6178},"00:28:56.419",{"_20":6180,"_90":266,"_267":6181,"_275":6198,"_277":278},"ee6726dec320",[6182,6186,6190,6193],{"_20":6183,"_90":271,"_272":6184,"_141":3187},"38a54b9cd728",[6185,582],"6afd8e9",{"_20":6187,"_90":271,"_272":6188,"_141":6189},"fef48e35c273",[6185]," Yeah. I might have a longer answer later, but yeah, the gamification part, I know people use certain tools and they think it works and all that is",{"_20":6191,"_90":271,"_272":6192,"_141":2602},"d7152bd4a39c",[],{"_20":6194,"_90":271,"_272":6195,"_141":6197},"ab64c2bf1ae9",[6196],"5e673da","great, you know, if it works for them it's great.",[6199,6201],{"_20":6185,"_90":2618,"_2619":6200},"00:29:05.060",{"_20":6196,"_90":2618,"_2619":6202},"00:29:15.860",{"_20":6204,"_90":266,"_267":6205,"_275":6227,"_277":278},"15d825542555",[6206,6211,6214,6219,6222],{"_20":6207,"_90":271,"_272":6208,"_141":6210},"4b7c650fe947",[6209],"c0b9b8c","But for me I've been quite allergic to that and I feel that it can take away from the joy and you know, there's actually studies on like, you know, you get this",{"_20":6212,"_90":271,"_272":6213,"_141":2602},"e77e9d2c36e9",[],{"_20":6215,"_90":271,"_272":6216,"_141":6218},"6bd7e975da42",[6217],"9402b25","clear uptick in the beginning 'cause everybody else is getting gamified and they're all collecting badges and then they get badge fatigue, which is what I call it.",{"_20":6220,"_90":271,"_272":6221,"_141":2602},"9760f3796716",[],{"_20":6223,"_90":271,"_272":6224,"_141":6226},"5766e21ee858",[6225],"45e8f14","Just you know, 'cause like then what's the meaning?",[6228,6230,6232],{"_20":6209,"_90":2618,"_2619":6229},"00:29:17.940",{"_20":6217,"_90":2618,"_2619":6231},"00:29:26.220",{"_20":6225,"_90":2618,"_2619":6233},"00:29:33.900",{"_20":6235,"_90":266,"_267":6236,"_275":6250,"_277":278},"611b0cefcc41",[6237,6242,6245],{"_20":6238,"_90":271,"_272":6239,"_141":6241},"0a080d11bf62",[6240],"a623a08","I kinda got into this in the short term, but if you're building a long term relationship, there's just so many more meaningful ways that you can thank your champions and",{"_20":6243,"_90":271,"_272":6244,"_141":2602},"c5d371483348",[],{"_20":6246,"_90":271,"_272":6247,"_141":6249},"d17153b79ccd",[6248],"dfaffe8","build relationships with them and then basically create a platform for them to amplify what they already want and naturally amplify.",[6251,6253],{"_20":6240,"_90":2618,"_2619":6252},"00:29:35.740",{"_20":6248,"_90":2618,"_2619":6254},"00:29:45.740",{"_20":6256,"_90":266,"_267":6257,"_275":6263,"_277":278},"e727258a3fe7",[6258],{"_20":6259,"_90":271,"_272":6260,"_141":6262},"9bc37a1b5c3b",[6261],"08ceabd","And so the main thing I guess I would add there is I've noticed that some people get into very complicated ways of thinking about how they're gonna think of, you know, thank their champions.",[6264],{"_20":6261,"_90":2618,"_2619":6265},"00:29:54.200",{"_20":6267,"_90":266,"_267":6268,"_275":6290,"_277":2033},"39577cc8dc0a",[6269,6274,6277,6282,6285],{"_20":6270,"_90":271,"_272":6271,"_141":6273},"d3e14a24ebba",[6272],"a4e5f4b","And I keep telling them like the most meaningful thing a lot of times is just saying thank you.",{"_20":6275,"_90":271,"_272":6276,"_141":2602},"26904157983c",[],{"_20":6278,"_90":271,"_272":6279,"_141":6281},"49cb71383003",[6280],"07e3465","And you don't have to mail them a physical thing.",{"_20":6283,"_90":271,"_272":6284,"_141":2602},"244d0edd6a20",[],{"_20":6286,"_90":271,"_272":6287,"_141":6289},"2f7e13cfcc39",[6288],"9d7d0df","You don't have to. It's the recognition that matters, it's not the object.",[6291,6293,6295],{"_20":6272,"_90":2618,"_2619":6292},"00:30:05.260",{"_20":6280,"_90":2618,"_2619":6294},"00:30:09.740",{"_20":6288,"_90":2618,"_2619":6296},"00:30:12.620",{"_20":6298,"_90":266,"_267":6299,"_275":6305,"_277":278},"115ca4cf1e68",[6300],{"_20":6301,"_90":271,"_272":6302,"_141":6304},"3fa2ffcf7d9e",[6303],"3b6b38e","Because I think a lot of people is like, oh, we need ten grand because we're gonna mail everybody something.",[6306],{"_20":6303,"_90":2618,"_2619":6307},"00:30:17.080",{"_20":6309,"_90":266,"_267":6310,"_275":6319,"_277":278},"cc199c5c7844",[6311,6315],{"_20":6312,"_90":271,"_272":6313,"_141":2988},"df8f88ccddc8",[6314,582],"5760ba3",{"_20":6316,"_90":271,"_272":6317,"_141":6318},"7e1c591d4d7d",[6314]," Just being genuine.",[6320],{"_20":6314,"_90":2618,"_2619":6321},"00:30:21.160",{"_20":6323,"_90":266,"_267":6324,"_275":6341,"_277":278},"f5557b0a86fa",[6325,6329,6333,6336],{"_20":6326,"_90":271,"_272":6327,"_141":3187},"ad1196492645",[6328,582],"260c657",{"_20":6330,"_90":271,"_272":6331,"_141":6332},"a39a6101d784",[6328]," Yeah. It's just like, do the stuff that means something and then the objects are something that would follow.",{"_20":6334,"_90":271,"_272":6335,"_141":2602},"8b327a79fab2",[],{"_20":6337,"_90":271,"_272":6338,"_141":6340},"ab71b7749309",[6339],"8a41051","So especially if you have a really tight budget, that's the advice that I've always given.",[6342,6344],{"_20":6328,"_90":2618,"_2619":6343},"00:30:22.040",{"_20":6339,"_90":2618,"_2619":6345},"00:30:27.800",{"_20":6347,"_90":266,"_267":6348,"_275":6357,"_277":278},"ea6e90799c8a",[6349,6353],{"_20":6350,"_90":271,"_272":6351,"_141":2988},"1a9a011aae62",[6352,582],"2cfda57",{"_20":6354,"_90":271,"_272":6355,"_141":6356},"db9590a7ecc2",[6352]," Dave, what do you think about champions and advocates in your world?",[6358],{"_20":6352,"_90":2618,"_2619":6359},"00:30:33.840",{"_20":6361,"_90":266,"_267":6362,"_275":6379,"_277":278},"861d01d7940f",[6363,6367,6371,6374],{"_20":6364,"_90":271,"_272":6365,"_141":3162},"f301842a99ed",[6366,582],"0d36c1c",{"_20":6368,"_90":271,"_272":6369,"_141":6370},"c3b414e676b4",[6366]," It's a little bit scary because you know you go out there as a dev advocate and you look at all the advocates who are out there in the community.",{"_20":6372,"_90":271,"_272":6373,"_141":2602},"7438ddf92f46",[],{"_20":6375,"_90":271,"_272":6376,"_141":6378},"3fb780a1825a",[6377],"f16e0f5","You're like, oh my gosh, every one of these people is smarter than me.",[6380,6382],{"_20":6366,"_90":2618,"_2619":6381},"00:30:38.000",{"_20":6377,"_90":2618,"_2619":6383},"00:30:46.980",{"_20":6385,"_90":266,"_267":6386,"_275":6416,"_277":278},"69abc2925432",[6387,6392,6395,6400,6403,6408,6411],{"_20":6388,"_90":271,"_272":6389,"_141":6391},"df8eb61148a4",[6390],"635106a","Like, why am I getting paid to do this?",{"_20":6393,"_90":271,"_272":6394,"_141":2602},"2005bc225d17",[],{"_20":6396,"_90":271,"_272":6397,"_141":6399},"ffe5dfb7b2a9",[6398],"13d9e41","You know, because the community out there is just amazing.",{"_20":6401,"_90":271,"_272":6402,"_141":2602},"ea6b2cae8dc1",[],{"_20":6404,"_90":271,"_272":6405,"_141":6407},"5493b06a0870",[6406],"ef5ea41","We get people from the community to give talks at our meetups and conferences and stuff like that.",{"_20":6409,"_90":271,"_272":6410,"_141":2602},"48412d54f975",[],{"_20":6412,"_90":271,"_272":6413,"_141":6415},"3f22d82eeb5f",[6414],"f64a4ce","And they're just really, really smart.",[6417,6419,6421,6423],{"_20":6390,"_90":2618,"_2619":6418},"00:30:50.260",{"_20":6398,"_90":2618,"_2619":6420},"00:30:51.940",{"_20":6406,"_90":2618,"_2619":6422},"00:30:55.060",{"_20":6414,"_90":2618,"_2619":6424},"00:30:59.300",{"_20":6426,"_90":266,"_267":6427,"_275":6449,"_277":278},"7222c14e3f5f",[6428,6433,6436,6441,6444],{"_20":6429,"_90":271,"_272":6430,"_141":6432},"0125b35fb3b7",[6431],"d80b83d","So a lot of my role is just facilitating them, you know, like what can I do for you to make your job easier.",{"_20":6434,"_90":271,"_272":6435,"_141":2602},"44f6ad42d3f0",[],{"_20":6437,"_90":271,"_272":6438,"_141":6440},"b8661e70d21a",[6439],"f49bc37","Because yeah, so I think I feel a bit the same way about the gamification stuff and, you know, physical objects because",{"_20":6442,"_90":271,"_272":6443,"_141":2602},"187a29f19bb6",[],{"_20":6445,"_90":271,"_272":6446,"_141":6448},"54aa9e182996",[6447],"34e5232","a lot of it is just that you know they're doing it because they like your product, they feel that you're relating to them authentically, and so commoditizing that is a double edged sword.",[6450,6452,6454],{"_20":6431,"_90":2618,"_2619":6451},"00:31:01.720",{"_20":6439,"_90":2618,"_2619":6453},"00:31:08.680",{"_20":6447,"_90":2618,"_2619":6455},"00:31:17.740",{"_20":6457,"_90":266,"_267":6458,"_275":6483,"_277":278},"ef0898e6d300",[6459,6463,6467,6470,6475,6478],{"_20":6460,"_90":271,"_272":6461,"_141":3106},"bd9e5b842efd",[6462,582],"339d08c",{"_20":6464,"_90":271,"_272":6465,"_141":6466},"e85585490785",[6462]," Alright, I'm gonna get myself in trouble on this one now.",{"_20":6468,"_90":271,"_272":6469,"_141":2602},"a38bf698d808",[],{"_20":6471,"_90":271,"_272":6472,"_141":6474},"ec49b2388995",[6473],"3d13848","No, come on. Based on those answers.",{"_20":6476,"_90":271,"_272":6477,"_141":2602},"bedd5de77e1f",[],{"_20":6479,"_90":271,"_272":6480,"_141":6482},"e5cee7b9bce4",[6481],"863c978","No, so I think there's",[6484,6486,6488],{"_20":6462,"_90":2618,"_2619":6485},"00:31:28.240",{"_20":6473,"_90":2618,"_2619":6487},"00:31:30.320",{"_20":6481,"_90":2618,"_2619":6489},"00:31:32.279",{"_20":6491,"_90":266,"_267":6492,"_275":6501,"_277":278},"4444a9e03c89",[6493,6497],{"_20":6494,"_90":271,"_272":6495,"_141":2988},"08d4b56e873f",[6496,582],"b9fc8d6",{"_20":6498,"_90":271,"_272":6499,"_141":6500},"a8bdc1b2783c",[6496]," multiple viewpoints. There you go, give us one.",[6502],{"_20":6496,"_90":2618,"_2619":6503},"00:31:37.320",{"_20":6505,"_90":266,"_267":6506,"_275":6523,"_277":278},"99caf8ad5129",[6507,6511,6515,6518],{"_20":6508,"_90":271,"_272":6509,"_141":3106},"0b4b4ad08578",[6510,582],"6aa137a",{"_20":6512,"_90":271,"_272":6513,"_141":6514},"0ac3adbcdf72",[6510]," At MuleSoft we ran the MuleSoft Champions program, which was very heavily gamification using third-party software.",{"_20":6516,"_90":271,"_272":6517,"_141":2602},"40977dbb9b30",[],{"_20":6519,"_90":271,"_272":6520,"_141":6522},"e9352ce9c6ca",[6521],"69ec8b2","But it goes back down to again making sure you're doing what's right by the developers.",[6524,6526],{"_20":6510,"_90":2618,"_2619":6525},"00:31:40.200",{"_20":6521,"_90":2618,"_2619":6527},"00:31:47.040",{"_20":6529,"_90":266,"_267":6530,"_275":6552,"_277":278},"147e11142071",[6531,6536,6539,6544,6547],{"_20":6532,"_90":271,"_272":6533,"_141":6535},"d0cd7bc84c64",[6534],"13f23df","And so we offered those tangible prizes that we'd ship out.",{"_20":6537,"_90":271,"_272":6538,"_141":2602},"69c4d61afee9",[],{"_20":6540,"_90":271,"_272":6541,"_141":6543},"faa095a32410",[6542],"bc380e1","We actually gave away things like iPad minis, MacBook Pros, that developers could earn.",{"_20":6545,"_90":271,"_272":6546,"_141":2602},"202e9c1f5615",[],{"_20":6548,"_90":271,"_272":6549,"_141":6551},"3e9d1bb8bbf8",[6550],"b4c9fdd","And what we found is we had a lot of people who joined the program initially just because they wanted to earn that prize.",[6553,6555,6557],{"_20":6534,"_90":2618,"_2619":6554},"00:31:51.120",{"_20":6542,"_90":2618,"_2619":6556},"00:31:54.160",{"_20":6550,"_90":2618,"_2619":6558},"00:32:00.019",{"_20":6560,"_90":266,"_267":6561,"_275":6575,"_277":278},"7d502d532a0f",[6562,6567,6570],{"_20":6563,"_90":271,"_272":6564,"_141":6566},"923e5273cdd2",[6565],"97db5b9","But our entire goal of the program wasn't to say, oh, tweet about us, write about us, and we'll send you a MacBook Pro.",{"_20":6568,"_90":271,"_272":6569,"_141":2602},"1079c0576712",[],{"_20":6571,"_90":271,"_272":6572,"_141":6574},"130c0b7046e9",[6573],"3473869","Our entire program was designed to say, we're gonna help you grow your career and help you do the things that I wish somebody would help me do when I start off as a developer, to learn how to grow my career.",[6576,6578],{"_20":6565,"_90":2618,"_2619":6577},"00:32:06.340",{"_20":6573,"_90":2618,"_2619":6579},"00:32:11.860",{"_20":6581,"_90":266,"_267":6582,"_275":6612,"_277":278},"d1049a09a177",[6583,6588,6591,6596,6599,6604,6607],{"_20":6584,"_90":271,"_272":6585,"_141":6587},"c70aace861df",[6586],"80c17fe","And so we had people join, and one of my favorite comments that came back was, you know, I joined this program just for the fun of it.",{"_20":6589,"_90":271,"_272":6590,"_141":2602},"a8aec5cce30f",[],{"_20":6592,"_90":271,"_272":6593,"_141":6595},"842505284a1a",[6594],"0143b42","I just wanted to get a prize, earn some badges, get some points.",{"_20":6597,"_90":271,"_272":6598,"_141":2602},"4035446e48a9",[],{"_20":6600,"_90":271,"_272":6601,"_141":6603},"1d24bfca2c9b",[6602],"9c94450","This is one of the best educational programs I've ever been a part of.",{"_20":6605,"_90":271,"_272":6606,"_141":2602},"9e1647d88fd7",[],{"_20":6608,"_90":271,"_272":6609,"_141":6611},"1cbca430be0d",[6610],"75d6b86","And that was what really struck us as kind of the winning factor.",[6613,6615,6617,6619],{"_20":6586,"_90":2618,"_2619":6614},"00:32:21.580",{"_20":6594,"_90":2618,"_2619":6616},"00:32:28.539",{"_20":6602,"_90":2618,"_2619":6618},"00:32:32.220",{"_20":6610,"_90":2618,"_2619":6620},"00:32:35.740",{"_20":6622,"_90":266,"_267":6623,"_275":6645,"_277":2033},"9dfa2d771951",[6624,6629,6632,6637,6640],{"_20":6625,"_90":271,"_272":6626,"_141":6628},"288b776f63dc",[6627],"18813b0","And we talked about the value from that.",{"_20":6630,"_90":271,"_272":6631,"_141":2602},"bb7d30323746",[],{"_20":6633,"_90":271,"_272":6634,"_141":6636},"c1830dd9e749",[6635],"bec0e3c","The last year I was at MuleSoft, we had about two million dollars worth of content created by the external community",{"_20":6638,"_90":271,"_272":6639,"_141":2602},"dfbd89f9a364",[],{"_20":6641,"_90":271,"_272":6642,"_141":6644},"678c57a77fa5",[6643],"0887ad1","through that program. The cost to administer that program was less than a single developer evangelist.",[6646,6648,6650],{"_20":6627,"_90":2618,"_2619":6647},"00:32:38.220",{"_20":6635,"_90":2618,"_2619":6649},"00:32:40.060",{"_20":6643,"_90":2618,"_2619":6651},"00:32:45.740",{"_20":6653,"_90":266,"_267":6654,"_275":6676,"_277":278},"7f5765a043a9",[6655,6660,6663,6668,6671],{"_20":6656,"_90":271,"_272":6657,"_141":6659},"2909efbd713e",[6658],"28fd613","So I mean we look at that.",{"_20":6661,"_90":271,"_272":6662,"_141":2602},"63743daaa067",[],{"_20":6664,"_90":271,"_272":6665,"_141":6667},"18bc02a4868a",[6666],"8f5b76c","Actually it's kind of funny, I had a conversation with Rob Spectre.",{"_20":6669,"_90":271,"_272":6670,"_141":2602},"4a9bf1df8b73",[],{"_20":6672,"_90":271,"_272":6673,"_141":6675},"213a7bd3c2db",[6674],"d825271","Before he had left Twilio and he was talking about the great work that his team was doing.",[6677,6679,6681],{"_20":6658,"_90":2618,"_2619":6678},"00:32:51.500",{"_20":6666,"_90":2618,"_2619":6680},"00:32:52.780",{"_20":6674,"_90":2618,"_2619":6682},"00:32:55.880",{"_20":6684,"_90":266,"_267":6685,"_275":6699,"_277":278},"9e63e8ed53fe",[6686,6691,6694],{"_20":6687,"_90":271,"_272":6688,"_141":6690},"d7c5c6787fc2",[6689],"1da790e","Like, hey look, we did all this great work.",{"_20":6692,"_90":271,"_272":6693,"_141":2602},"4d69001b8956",[],{"_20":6695,"_90":271,"_272":6696,"_141":6698},"f0a2dfe1131c",[6697],"287b17a","We got, you know, I think we did like a hundred and fifty-six blog posts, we did this, we did this, and I think he had a team of eight at the time, I don't remember exactly.",[6700,6702],{"_20":6689,"_90":2618,"_2619":6701},"00:33:00.280",{"_20":6697,"_90":2618,"_2619":6703},"00:33:01.800",{"_20":6705,"_90":266,"_267":6706,"_275":6720,"_277":278},"aef20d2a0c64",[6707,6712,6715],{"_20":6708,"_90":271,"_272":6709,"_141":6711},"445c34f57082",[6710],"8020bb4","Turned to me, he goes, now Mike, your team's pretty small, you have like three people.",{"_20":6713,"_90":271,"_272":6714,"_141":2602},"adb75ab0c210",[],{"_20":6716,"_90":271,"_272":6717,"_141":6719},"6f510861aecc",[6718],"ea5a31a","How'd you guys do for content? Like, what, we had five thousand seven hundred and sixty blog posts, we had about five hundred videos, we had another three hundred tutorials. And Rob just kind of shook his head at me and left",[6721,6723],{"_20":6710,"_90":2618,"_2619":6722},"00:33:09.300",{"_20":6718,"_90":2618,"_2619":6724},"00:33:12.740",{"_20":6726,"_90":266,"_267":6727,"_275":6741,"_277":278},"89b506901801",[6728,6733,6736],{"_20":6729,"_90":271,"_272":6730,"_141":6732},"51789f90bac7",[6731],"45e29e6","and you know, but the point is the community could be really valuable to you, but you can provide a value to them without making it be, oh here, give us something, take this, we want nothing to do with you.",{"_20":6734,"_90":271,"_272":6735,"_141":2602},"b79394ebfa3e",[],{"_20":6737,"_90":271,"_272":6738,"_141":6740},"45cddfba5f9d",[6739],"8d685c8","In fact, many of those people who joined that gamified program are good friends of mine now on Facebook or LinkedIn because you continue to build that relationship with them.",[6742,6744],{"_20":6731,"_90":2618,"_2619":6743},"00:33:24.800",{"_20":6739,"_90":2618,"_2619":6745},"00:33:33.940",{"_20":6747,"_90":266,"_267":6748,"_275":6778,"_277":278},"51f90b8aa6b2",[6749,6754,6757,6762,6765,6770,6773],{"_20":6750,"_90":271,"_272":6751,"_141":6753},"cfa413c59ee2",[6752],"e7238ab","In terms of building a championship program, them or MVP program, I don't like traditional MVP programs, which is, hey, you're our top three people.",{"_20":6755,"_90":271,"_272":6756,"_141":2602},"5f43410ab9db",[],{"_20":6758,"_90":271,"_272":6759,"_141":6761},"6137789fc6d1",[6760],"2c6a7f2","Congratulations, the rest of you, you're all peons.",{"_20":6763,"_90":271,"_272":6764,"_141":2602},"e851a367e40d",[],{"_20":6766,"_90":271,"_272":6767,"_141":6769},"4469d089cbfe",[6768],"5840db5","Like you know you're not as good as they are.",{"_20":6771,"_90":271,"_272":6772,"_141":2602},"afc4a656a3bb",[],{"_20":6774,"_90":271,"_272":6775,"_141":6777},"1250532e6c0f",[6776],"fdcf9ec","And that's not the message that's trying to be sent, but sometimes that's the message that does get sent.",[6779,6781,6783,6785],{"_20":6752,"_90":2618,"_2619":6780},"00:33:42.120",{"_20":6760,"_90":2618,"_2619":6782},"00:33:51.200",{"_20":6768,"_90":2618,"_2619":6784},"00:33:53.440",{"_20":6776,"_90":2618,"_2619":6786},"00:33:55.520",{"_20":6788,"_90":266,"_267":6789,"_275":6803,"_277":278},"b34558a3c990",[6790,6795,6798],{"_20":6791,"_90":271,"_272":6792,"_141":6794},"99ef51c2b3b8",[6793],"69d0ed7","And it's intimidating because people say, wow, I want to contribute, I want to be part of this community, I want to be like Dave, I want to be like Tamao, but I can't do all this stuff.",{"_20":6796,"_90":271,"_272":6797,"_141":2602},"57db32b12b9b",[],{"_20":6799,"_90":271,"_272":6800,"_141":6802},"2ec48498d2a3",[6801],"482a899","I'm not smart enough or I don't know enough or I don't have the time.",[6804,6806],{"_20":6793,"_90":2618,"_2619":6805},"00:33:59.200",{"_20":6801,"_90":2618,"_2619":6807},"00:34:06.580",{"_20":6809,"_90":266,"_267":6810,"_275":6832,"_277":278},"2b1627988e93",[6811,6816,6819,6824,6827],{"_20":6812,"_90":271,"_272":6813,"_141":6815},"e3d625112e0c",[6814],"3237154","In fact, with MuleSoft we brought in a guy into our gamify program here and I talked to my engineers like, oh yeah, we see him on Stack Overflow once or twice.",{"_20":6817,"_90":271,"_272":6818,"_141":2602},"351868ebada1",[],{"_20":6820,"_90":271,"_272":6821,"_141":6823},"e9af26a08bd1",[6822],"46b96dc","You know, he's not very strong.",{"_20":6825,"_90":271,"_272":6826,"_141":2602},"0b111eea5e4e",[],{"_20":6828,"_90":271,"_272":6829,"_141":6831},"0796a9163fe6",[6830],"9331781","Half the time his answers are wrong, like he's probably not gonna be able to contribute much.",[6833,6835,6837],{"_20":6814,"_90":2618,"_2619":6834},"00:34:09.540",{"_20":6822,"_90":2618,"_2619":6836},"00:34:19.420",{"_20":6830,"_90":2618,"_2619":6838},"00:34:21.340",{"_20":6840,"_90":266,"_267":6841,"_275":6855,"_277":278},"8efbf4aa9d2b",[6842,6847,6850],{"_20":6843,"_90":271,"_272":6844,"_141":6846},"84b855255c5b",[6845],"965f082","Two and a half years later when I left MuleSoft, I was at Connect Central for the last time, and the engineer came to me and goes, is this guy gonna be here?",{"_20":6848,"_90":271,"_272":6849,"_141":2602},"9fdea1a663ad",[],{"_20":6851,"_90":271,"_272":6852,"_141":6854},"3aedb3ea33b1",[6853],"477e1e8","And I said, no, we couldn't fly him, man.",[6856,6858],{"_20":6845,"_90":2618,"_2619":6857},"00:34:25.740",{"_20":6853,"_90":2618,"_2619":6859},"00:34:35.179",{"_20":6861,"_90":266,"_267":6862,"_275":6876,"_277":278},"4d789eea737a",[6863,6868,6871],{"_20":6864,"_90":271,"_272":6865,"_141":6867},"3efb85a06e62",[6866],"c14311c","He goes, that guy is my hero.",{"_20":6869,"_90":271,"_272":6870,"_141":2602},"afd1ed052795",[],{"_20":6872,"_90":271,"_272":6873,"_141":6875},"04b7484f3d42",[6874],"3c8c291","He has single-handedly done more than anybody else in this community.",[6877,6879],{"_20":6866,"_90":2618,"_2619":6878},"00:34:37.339",{"_20":6874,"_90":2618,"_2619":6880},"00:34:40.300",{"_20":6882,"_90":266,"_267":6883,"_275":6897,"_277":278},"ad7fb0b648b7",[6884,6889,6892],{"_20":6885,"_90":271,"_272":6886,"_141":6888},"0c42c120c395",[6887],"9985b2e","And again, this is a guy who created, I think he by himself created around 400 blog posts.",{"_20":6890,"_90":271,"_272":6891,"_141":2602},"346b9f5f2c22",[],{"_20":6893,"_90":271,"_272":6894,"_141":6896},"e6acef9d0d7a",[6895],"89e7af4","He created tutorial videos. Why? Because he had the opportunity to learn, the opportunity to grow.",[6898,6900],{"_20":6887,"_90":2618,"_2619":6899},"00:34:43.800",{"_20":6895,"_90":2618,"_2619":6901},"00:34:47.640",{"_20":6903,"_90":266,"_267":6904,"_275":6918,"_277":278},"3aa911d99ac8",[6905,6910,6913],{"_20":6906,"_90":271,"_272":6907,"_141":6909},"590446114e0f",[6908],"9e082bc","And it wasn't that we gave him prizes, yes, he loved the prizes.",{"_20":6911,"_90":271,"_272":6912,"_141":2602},"59aec4a0153a",[],{"_20":6914,"_90":271,"_272":6915,"_141":6917},"fc6c02e00ffd",[6916],"539da0a","But it was that we gave him the chance to grow his career and he now works at a company as a MuleSoft developer, as a senior MuleSoft developer, because of that opportunity.",[6919,6921],{"_20":6908,"_90":2618,"_2619":6920},"00:34:51.480",{"_20":6916,"_90":2618,"_2619":6922},"00:34:54.320",{"_20":6924,"_90":266,"_267":6925,"_275":6930,"_277":394},"3137ea4d4cb9",[6926],{"_20":6927,"_90":271,"_272":6928,"_141":6929},"1a32bd3bb361",[],"Failures Worth Learning From",[],{"_20":6932,"_90":266,"_267":6933,"_275":6958,"_277":278},"c95b26344757",[6934,6938,6942,6945,6950,6953],{"_20":6935,"_90":271,"_272":6936,"_141":2988},"9d20697e73b8",[6937,582],"08751df",{"_20":6939,"_90":271,"_272":6940,"_141":6941},"244144fb74f7",[6937]," That's a great point. And it's really cool to see how developers like to give back in community.",{"_20":6943,"_90":271,"_272":6944,"_141":2602},"108641c40383",[],{"_20":6946,"_90":271,"_272":6947,"_141":6949},"d3f491bea49b",[6948],"2a1054a","We talked a little bit about being genuine and upfront, just saying thank you.",{"_20":6951,"_90":271,"_272":6952,"_141":2602},"68fa93df581e",[],{"_20":6954,"_90":271,"_272":6955,"_141":6957},"363c06f0b205",[6956],"60313e3","And those things go a really long way, just like they do in real life with other humans, right?",[6959,6961,6963],{"_20":6937,"_90":2618,"_2619":6960},"00:35:02.140",{"_20":6948,"_90":2618,"_2619":6962},"00:35:06.619",{"_20":6956,"_90":2618,"_2619":6964},"00:35:10.960",{"_20":6966,"_90":266,"_267":6967,"_275":6981,"_277":278},"32738eab7cf8",[6968,6973,6976],{"_20":6969,"_90":271,"_272":6970,"_141":6972},"42bdac14da8e",[6971],"908571e","So I know we're running short on time and we want to give those people in the room the opportunity to ask us some questions.",{"_20":6974,"_90":271,"_272":6975,"_141":2602},"8f6ed4c5119f",[],{"_20":6977,"_90":271,"_272":6978,"_141":6980},"06b7983b0851",[6979],"7659c73","So I have one other question for the panelists, and we'll make this a fun one.",[6982,6984],{"_20":6971,"_90":2618,"_2619":6983},"00:35:15.600",{"_20":6979,"_90":2618,"_2619":6985},"00:35:22.160",{"_20":6987,"_90":266,"_267":6988,"_275":7010,"_277":278},"dfe15d2a70d5",[6989,6994,6997,7002,7005],{"_20":6990,"_90":271,"_272":6991,"_141":6993},"ae04b8480067",[6992],"3eb9bb3","As you all can see by the answers and the experience and the stories that these three are bringing to you, there's a depth of experience here.",{"_20":6995,"_90":271,"_272":6996,"_141":2602},"90c6a40a0f9a",[],{"_20":6998,"_90":271,"_272":6999,"_141":7001},"c6d62327f705",[7000],"30114f1","Now, if you're from where I'm from, experience just means you've made more mistakes than everybody else, right?",{"_20":7003,"_90":271,"_272":7004,"_141":2602},"192ac1267ff3",[],{"_20":7006,"_90":271,"_272":7007,"_141":7009},"b8cb2e4a4273",[7008],"49823ac","So I want to talk a little bit about your failures and what you learn from them.",[7011,7013,7015],{"_20":6992,"_90":2618,"_2619":7012},"00:35:26.080",{"_20":7000,"_90":2618,"_2619":7014},"00:35:36.560",{"_20":7008,"_90":2618,"_2619":7016},"00:35:42.560",{"_20":7018,"_90":266,"_267":7019,"_275":7041,"_277":278},"9abbd2b40a17",[7020,7025,7028,7033,7036],{"_20":7021,"_90":271,"_272":7022,"_141":7024},"2bab8887e812",[7023],"cccb4fc","So if you could think of, and I don't want all your failures, please, we don't have all evening.",{"_20":7026,"_90":271,"_272":7027,"_141":2602},"082aa8899e9e",[],{"_20":7029,"_90":271,"_272":7030,"_141":7032},"41e67c9f8057",[7031],"206205c","Want to talk about some of the times when some experiments you've tried, or you had a big negative impact when you were trying to build your community or something that didn't go right",{"_20":7034,"_90":271,"_272":7035,"_141":2602},"b71750820351",[],{"_20":7037,"_90":271,"_272":7038,"_141":7040},"c99457c73aa2",[7039],"5579f11","that you think would be helpful for the audience as they start to build out their own developer communities, some things that they want to watch out for.",[7042,7044,7046],{"_20":7023,"_90":2618,"_2619":7043},"00:35:46.180",{"_20":7031,"_90":2618,"_2619":7045},"00:35:52.180",{"_20":7039,"_90":2618,"_2619":7047},"00:36:03.780",{"_20":7049,"_90":266,"_267":7050,"_275":7056,"_277":278},"3a7fa2725810",[7051],{"_20":7052,"_90":271,"_272":7053,"_141":7055},"9346016e2cd1",[7054],"5f96a1d","And Dave, I know this is a topic near and dear to your heart.",[7057],{"_20":7054,"_90":2618,"_2619":7058},"00:36:11.220",{"_20":7060,"_90":266,"_267":7061,"_275":7094,"_277":278},"b060c917d644",[7062,7066,7070,7073,7078,7081,7086,7089],{"_20":7063,"_90":271,"_272":7064,"_141":3162},"fe28d56d9204",[7065,582],"34b902e",{"_20":7067,"_90":271,"_272":7068,"_141":7069},"d01aeda8ec97",[7065]," I feel like all that I've done this evening is talk about things that I've failed at.",{"_20":7071,"_90":271,"_272":7072,"_141":2602},"b8a3995ebabc",[],{"_20":7074,"_90":271,"_272":7075,"_141":7077},"d94ca6a67d04",[7076],"5d17d79","Talks that nobody attended, forums that nobody used.",{"_20":7079,"_90":271,"_272":7080,"_141":2602},"296f91a88176",[],{"_20":7082,"_90":271,"_272":7083,"_141":7085},"94185a69b3f5",[7084],"be0b5b1","Yeah, I'm sure I've",{"_20":7087,"_90":271,"_272":7088,"_141":2602},"6ace7875f0f5",[],{"_20":7090,"_90":271,"_272":7091,"_141":7093},"bab3a17b9f84",[7092],"8440a69","done some.",[7095,7097,7099,7101],{"_20":7065,"_90":2618,"_2619":7096},"00:36:14.300",{"_20":7076,"_90":2618,"_2619":7098},"00:36:18.220",{"_20":7084,"_90":2618,"_2619":7100},"00:36:22.460",{"_20":7092,"_90":2618,"_2619":7102},"00:36:24.280",{"_20":7104,"_90":266,"_267":7105,"_275":7122,"_277":278},"87ee1be22974",[7106,7110,7114,7117],{"_20":7107,"_90":271,"_272":7108,"_141":2988},"e833f4cb35d3",[7109,582],"ba46561",{"_20":7111,"_90":271,"_272":7112,"_141":7113},"8e84f4beff84",[7109]," And give us a tip, something tangible they can take away with them before we get into their own.",{"_20":7115,"_90":271,"_272":7116,"_141":2602},"ed57c0c526e8",[],{"_20":7118,"_90":271,"_272":7119,"_141":7121},"5948caff4257",[7120],"3589b0d","Don't do that.",[7123,7125],{"_20":7109,"_90":2618,"_2619":7124},"00:36:24.760",{"_20":7120,"_90":2618,"_2619":7126},"00:36:28.760",{"_20":7128,"_90":266,"_267":7129,"_275":7154,"_277":278},"e88c47da6d7f",[7130,7134,7138,7141,7146,7149],{"_20":7131,"_90":271,"_272":7132,"_141":3162},"5101702a7058",[7133,582],"94c603a",{"_20":7135,"_90":271,"_272":7136,"_141":7137},"36a60e8a6e06",[7133]," No, well okay, so you're gonna fail and you're gonna fail a lot and that's why it's important to measure things, right?",{"_20":7139,"_90":271,"_272":7140,"_141":2602},"06b37341c371",[],{"_20":7142,"_90":271,"_272":7143,"_141":7145},"ce6ef552092d",[7144],"465016d","Because you have to, you know, when you throw a bunch of darts at the board, some of them are gonna hit and those are the ones that you want to double down on.",{"_20":7147,"_90":271,"_272":7148,"_141":2602},"b5308a31f739",[],{"_20":7150,"_90":271,"_272":7151,"_141":7153},"67fd68cbc4b9",[7152],"0f4df22","And some of them are just gonna go off and you just have to forgive yourself and keep going.",[7155,7157,7159],{"_20":7133,"_90":2618,"_2619":7156},"00:36:32.200",{"_20":7144,"_90":2618,"_2619":7158},"00:36:42.920",{"_20":7152,"_90":2618,"_2619":7160},"00:36:50.420",{"_20":7162,"_90":266,"_267":7163,"_275":7177,"_277":278},"f858f5fc4c0f",[7164,7169,7172],{"_20":7165,"_90":271,"_272":7166,"_141":7168},"1b5e05597ba7",[7167],"28174c1","And that could be, you know, sort of like how you sell the products, the technology areas that you're going after developers in, the types of developers, the size of the company, how you move people from your",{"_20":7170,"_90":271,"_272":7171,"_141":2602},"6076ad243f48",[],{"_20":7173,"_90":271,"_272":7174,"_141":7176},"1878cb7efa74",[7175],"abb2116","from your advocacy, from community to advocacy to your sales pipeline.",[7178,7180],{"_20":7167,"_90":2618,"_2619":7179},"00:36:55.220",{"_20":7175,"_90":2618,"_2619":7181},"00:37:06.320",{"_20":7183,"_90":266,"_267":7184,"_275":7214,"_277":278},"d6178f3a942a",[7185,7190,7193,7198,7201,7206,7209],{"_20":7186,"_90":271,"_272":7187,"_141":7189},"90440fb7f4c2",[7188],"94d4205","So many things. So everything you do,",{"_20":7191,"_90":271,"_272":7192,"_141":2602},"132495623dce",[],{"_20":7194,"_90":271,"_272":7195,"_141":7197},"01403ee8c14d",[7196],"b027531","measure it. And then hopefully that will lead you to some success.",{"_20":7199,"_90":271,"_272":7200,"_141":2602},"6a49eacbdf0d",[],{"_20":7202,"_90":271,"_272":7203,"_141":7205},"5ada4061bbb2",[7204],"ae9c12f","And then you can look back and joke about your failures instead of, on stage in front of a bunch of other people.",{"_20":7207,"_90":271,"_272":7208,"_141":2602},"c6410f31d718",[],{"_20":7210,"_90":271,"_272":7211,"_141":7213},"37b2cee146b8",[7212],"6d51c18","I cry in private.",[7215,7217,7219,7221],{"_20":7188,"_90":2618,"_2619":7216},"00:37:11.200",{"_20":7196,"_90":2618,"_2619":7218},"00:37:14.260",{"_20":7204,"_90":2618,"_2619":7220},"00:37:20.180",{"_20":7212,"_90":2618,"_2619":7222},"00:37:26.480",{"_20":7224,"_90":266,"_267":7225,"_275":7234,"_277":278},"f9c13b95e932",[7226,7230],{"_20":7227,"_90":271,"_272":7228,"_141":2988},"ad5a8e4c09a8",[7229,582],"9175782",{"_20":7231,"_90":271,"_272":7232,"_141":7233},"61fbe3837d22",[7229]," Okay, Mike, why don't you go next?",[7235],{"_20":7229,"_90":2618,"_2619":7236},"00:37:30.240",{"_20":7238,"_90":266,"_267":7239,"_275":7248,"_277":278},"5b61a1326085",[7240,7244],{"_20":7241,"_90":271,"_272":7242,"_141":3106},"bb9d0c85c398",[7243,582],"37b4bc3",{"_20":7245,"_90":271,"_272":7246,"_141":7247},"5e75785d01f8",[7243]," I think what I kinda piggyback off of what you said there.",[7249],{"_20":7243,"_90":2618,"_2619":7250},"00:37:31.840",{"_20":7252,"_90":266,"_267":7253,"_275":7267,"_277":2033},"4e7bdd7d3521",[7254,7259,7262],{"_20":7255,"_90":271,"_272":7256,"_141":7258},"65e100927649",[7257],"b1ea0fe","I think one of the biggest failures for myself and then also I think in DevRel is not marketing to developers, but marketing to your own company.",{"_20":7260,"_90":271,"_272":7261,"_141":2602},"c1c23f6e4bb1",[],{"_20":7263,"_90":271,"_272":7264,"_141":7266},"40d5f6064312",[7265],"6212eba","Explain to your company what you're doing.",[7268,7270],{"_20":7257,"_90":2618,"_2619":7269},"00:37:34.320",{"_20":7265,"_90":2618,"_2619":7271},"00:37:41.600",{"_20":7273,"_90":266,"_267":7274,"_275":7304,"_277":278},"58b9c6552e7e",[7275,7280,7283,7288,7291,7296,7299],{"_20":7276,"_90":271,"_272":7277,"_141":7279},"4cf82fd4bd17",[7278],"80ec601","So to your point really quickly, measure everything.",{"_20":7281,"_90":271,"_272":7282,"_141":2602},"7ce0debdb5a5",[],{"_20":7284,"_90":271,"_272":7285,"_141":7287},"061bf6a845ca",[7286],"77f2599","You should have a developer journey funnel for your company they can track.",{"_20":7289,"_90":271,"_272":7290,"_141":2602},"9e56e62bc8f0",[],{"_20":7292,"_90":271,"_272":7293,"_141":7295},"f73b53b1a48d",[7294],"1489d03","You know, things like awareness to interest to consideration to adoption all the way to advocacy.",{"_20":7297,"_90":271,"_272":7298,"_141":2602},"ed713cd146e9",[],{"_20":7300,"_90":271,"_272":7301,"_141":7303},"ff7ae2a88cec",[7302],"feb5a3e","You'll be able to say exactly where the problems are.",[7305,7307,7309,7311],{"_20":7278,"_90":2618,"_2619":7306},"00:37:43.059",{"_20":7286,"_90":2618,"_2619":7308},"00:37:45.619",{"_20":7294,"_90":2618,"_2619":7310},"00:37:48.339",{"_20":7302,"_90":2618,"_2619":7312},"00:37:53.400",{"_20":7314,"_90":266,"_267":7315,"_275":7329,"_277":278},"02ece495f684",[7316,7321,7324],{"_20":7317,"_90":271,"_272":7318,"_141":7320},"9c096ecd9fb3",[7319],"2ecb4d3","As Dave said, be willing to be agile.",{"_20":7322,"_90":271,"_272":7323,"_141":2602},"4164f9511913",[],{"_20":7325,"_90":271,"_272":7326,"_141":7328},"5867e400d8fc",[7327],"d5944b4","You're gonna have things that don't work, be able to move very quickly.",[7330,7332],{"_20":7319,"_90":2618,"_2619":7331},"00:37:55.880",{"_20":7327,"_90":2618,"_2619":7333},"00:37:58.120",{"_20":7335,"_90":266,"_267":7336,"_275":7350,"_277":278},"e288d071c2ab",[7337,7342,7345],{"_20":7338,"_90":271,"_272":7339,"_141":7341},"bc7e33b650a7",[7340],"de2abfc","But also keep in mind that your company is very interested in what you're doing and make sure that you're staying in touch with the stakeholders, sharing with the stakeholders, and putting a dollar value to what you do.",{"_20":7343,"_90":271,"_272":7344,"_141":2602},"b502dabc30af",[],{"_20":7346,"_90":271,"_272":7347,"_141":7349},"f0337c8fa878",[7348],"b5bf381","Even if you can't put a",[7351,7353],{"_20":7340,"_90":2618,"_2619":7352},"00:38:01.359",{"_20":7348,"_90":2618,"_2619":7354},"00:38:09.520",{"_20":7356,"_90":266,"_267":7357,"_275":7371,"_277":278},"60a5061c7a50",[7358,7363,7366],{"_20":7359,"_90":271,"_272":7360,"_141":7362},"7ab15c71738a",[7361],"46c97da","a hard dollar value, letting them know here's the value we're seeing from the community, here's the value we're seeing because at the end of the day, I wish I could say everybody at the company's gonna be super altruistic and it's like, yes, the community",{"_20":7364,"_90":271,"_272":7365,"_141":2602},"963b204177b4",[],{"_20":7367,"_90":271,"_272":7368,"_141":7370},"54c4ca31f27e",[7369],"c32837b","is the most important thing and we're gonna support that.",[7372,7374],{"_20":7361,"_90":2618,"_2619":7373},"00:38:11.040",{"_20":7369,"_90":2618,"_2619":7375},"00:38:22.320",{"_20":7377,"_90":266,"_267":7378,"_275":7400,"_277":278},"41334b0fd2d6",[7379,7384,7387,7392,7395],{"_20":7380,"_90":271,"_272":7381,"_141":7383},"ba85da50e4d6",[7382],"323d2fe","versus making this next million dollar sale.",{"_20":7385,"_90":271,"_272":7386,"_141":2602},"d44933ef6882",[],{"_20":7388,"_90":271,"_272":7389,"_141":7391},"278718ef8737",[7390],"8fa0d9f","It doesn't always work that way.",{"_20":7393,"_90":271,"_272":7394,"_141":2602},"59dee848b911",[],{"_20":7396,"_90":271,"_272":7397,"_141":7399},"62694dc5c79f",[7398],"7c5b704","But if you can go to them and say here's the value, it gives the company a reason to invest more in the community because at the day the company wants to make more money.",[7401,7403,7405],{"_20":7382,"_90":2618,"_2619":7402},"00:38:24.160",{"_20":7390,"_90":2618,"_2619":7404},"00:38:26.480",{"_20":7398,"_90":2618,"_2619":7406},"00:38:27.520",{"_20":7408,"_90":266,"_267":7409,"_275":7431,"_277":278},"b6436910d01f",[7410,7415,7418,7423,7426],{"_20":7411,"_90":271,"_272":7412,"_141":7414},"54a749549493",[7413],"30ab652","And also I think the last thing I threw on there in terms of a personal failure is",{"_20":7416,"_90":271,"_272":7417,"_141":2602},"5ed6ffabc813",[],{"_20":7419,"_90":271,"_272":7420,"_141":7422},"34604fd6b117",[7421],"5c4bc10","well these are all personal failures.",{"_20":7424,"_90":271,"_272":7425,"_141":2602},"1db022e4808d",[],{"_20":7427,"_90":271,"_272":7428,"_141":7430},"8044377ef01f",[7429],"3e226a0","Like I've gone without the funnel, I've gone and didn't have justified it.",[7432,7434,7436],{"_20":7413,"_90":2618,"_2619":7433},"00:38:35.460",{"_20":7421,"_90":2618,"_2619":7435},"00:38:42.099",{"_20":7429,"_90":2618,"_2619":7437},"00:38:43.380",{"_20":7439,"_90":266,"_267":7440,"_275":7462,"_277":278},"cfe445454a03",[7441,7446,7449,7454,7457],{"_20":7442,"_90":271,"_272":7443,"_141":7445},"216ae009cbcf",[7444],"4a71bf5","A lot of companies expect that you're gonna start this community tomorrow, you're gonna have a million developers.",{"_20":7447,"_90":271,"_272":7448,"_141":2602},"23f5496d1ecb",[],{"_20":7450,"_90":271,"_272":7451,"_141":7453},"94f89d8fb224",[7452],"535070c","It doesn't work that way.",{"_20":7455,"_90":271,"_272":7456,"_141":2602},"bbb6f9e56e98",[],{"_20":7458,"_90":271,"_272":7459,"_141":7461},"419168821299",[7460],"0110c0b","In fact, every job I've taken, I've said look, in the first year you're actually not gonna see any ROI.",[7463,7465,7467],{"_20":7444,"_90":2618,"_2619":7464},"00:38:46.340",{"_20":7452,"_90":2618,"_2619":7466},"00:38:51.380",{"_20":7460,"_90":2618,"_2619":7468},"00:38:52.740",{"_20":7470,"_90":266,"_267":7471,"_275":7485,"_277":278},"28822b1b2007",[7472,7477,7480],{"_20":7473,"_90":271,"_272":7474,"_141":7476},"d9a18ef58656",[7475],"0d166b5","Like it's gonna take a year before you even start seeing ROI.",{"_20":7478,"_90":271,"_272":7479,"_141":2602},"63c3824a82e0",[],{"_20":7481,"_90":271,"_272":7482,"_141":7484},"51bd41a0f802",[7483],"cfc5676","It's gonna take another year before I start putting real tangible dollar values that you can measure against for this.",[7486,7488],{"_20":7475,"_90":2618,"_2619":7487},"00:38:58.160",{"_20":7483,"_90":2618,"_2619":7489},"00:39:00.320",{"_20":7491,"_90":266,"_267":7492,"_275":7514,"_277":278},"1e7bfa33a412",[7493,7498,7501,7506,7509],{"_20":7494,"_90":271,"_272":7495,"_141":7497},"ace94e906a8d",[7496],"2838799","But the other thing is sometimes it gets very easy to fall on one side or the other.",{"_20":7499,"_90":271,"_272":7500,"_141":2602},"980215f9ceae",[],{"_20":7502,"_90":271,"_272":7503,"_141":7505},"3f1884fb8e1d",[7504],"381335b","In community you have responsibility with both the community and to the company.",{"_20":7507,"_90":271,"_272":7508,"_141":2602},"493257ada61c",[],{"_20":7510,"_90":271,"_272":7511,"_141":7513},"468dfa6fdbd6",[7512],"90dbce2","And you have to, you know, there's a very thin tight rope that you have to walk there.",[7515,7517,7519],{"_20":7496,"_90":2618,"_2619":7516},"00:39:06.400",{"_20":7504,"_90":2618,"_2619":7518},"00:39:11.280",{"_20":7512,"_90":2618,"_2619":7520},"00:39:14.840",{"_20":7522,"_90":266,"_267":7523,"_275":7537,"_277":278},"19d5e5f22ff6",[7524,7529,7532],{"_20":7525,"_90":271,"_272":7526,"_141":7528},"f7d4fede9fc3",[7527],"09f421d","You have to make sure that you're supporting and protecting the community from the company, but you also make sure that you're protecting the company from the community.",{"_20":7530,"_90":271,"_272":7531,"_141":2602},"3b9f04956bac",[],{"_20":7533,"_90":271,"_272":7534,"_141":7536},"7cbd91b41259",[7535],"5041341","And that's again a very strong relationship for both.",[7538,7540],{"_20":7527,"_90":2618,"_2619":7539},"00:39:18.200",{"_20":7535,"_90":2618,"_2619":7541},"00:39:24.920",{"_20":7543,"_90":266,"_267":7544,"_275":7566,"_277":278},"322299d875c2",[7545,7550,7553,7558,7561],{"_20":7546,"_90":271,"_272":7547,"_141":7549},"3e84ff258733",[7548],"840e2b7","And sometimes it's very easy to lean one way or the other and, you know, argue with your boss and tell 'em, no, we're not doing this or no, sales isn't important, not that I'd ever say that.",{"_20":7551,"_90":271,"_272":7552,"_141":2602},"a000bebbc3f6",[],{"_20":7554,"_90":271,"_272":7555,"_141":7557},"688738633bee",[7556],"bf266c0","Or you know, I don't understand why marketing does.",{"_20":7559,"_90":271,"_272":7560,"_141":2602},"d01c26f52c3f",[],{"_20":7562,"_90":271,"_272":7563,"_141":7565},"ae8d698269fe",[7564],"da6d3a4","So be very careful in walking that and understand that there's always two sides and your job is to really interpret that and navigate that.",[7567,7569,7571],{"_20":7548,"_90":2618,"_2619":7568},"00:39:27.359",{"_20":7556,"_90":2618,"_2619":7570},"00:39:35.859",{"_20":7564,"_90":2618,"_2619":7572},"00:39:38.020",{"_20":7574,"_90":266,"_267":7575,"_275":7592,"_277":278},"030727605107",[7576,7580,7584,7587],{"_20":7577,"_90":271,"_272":7578,"_141":2988},"96040bf8a867",[7579,582],"ae352f2",{"_20":7581,"_90":271,"_272":7582,"_141":7583},"4f1b1abf15fb",[7579]," Awesome.",{"_20":7585,"_90":271,"_272":7586,"_141":2602},"8bcc9cfef837",[],{"_20":7588,"_90":271,"_272":7589,"_141":7591},"5d2a1367c2ae",[7590],"785419c","Answer this and we'll start to get some questions.",[7593,7595],{"_20":7579,"_90":2618,"_2619":7594},"00:39:44.380",{"_20":7590,"_90":2618,"_2619":7596},"00:39:50.460",{"_20":7598,"_90":266,"_267":7599,"_275":7616,"_277":278},"a1fd48e0c3b4",[7600,7604,7608,7611],{"_20":7601,"_90":271,"_272":7602,"_141":3187},"e734c517ca89",[7603,582],"8b616ab",{"_20":7605,"_90":271,"_272":7606,"_141":7607},"36004ebf7b98",[7603]," Yeah, I guess I'll address a lot of people here talking about online communities and it's not necessarily failure or success, but, you know, be aware of what platform is best.",{"_20":7609,"_90":271,"_272":7610,"_141":2602},"2a84e47b82cd",[],{"_20":7612,"_90":271,"_272":7613,"_141":7615},"63d5b4a7bd84",[7614],"5e4fd18","So like I've seen companies where, you know, they are desperately trying to have their own forum work, but everybody was at Stack Overflow.",[7617,7619],{"_20":7603,"_90":2618,"_2619":7618},"00:39:52.160",{"_20":7614,"_90":2618,"_2619":7620},"00:40:02.740",{"_20":7622,"_90":266,"_267":7623,"_275":7645,"_277":2033},"b97bec56d369",[7624,7629,7632,7637,7640],{"_20":7625,"_90":271,"_272":7626,"_141":7628},"68b5621017de",[7627],"a6e5e51","So it was like, why are we working so hard to draw everybody",{"_20":7630,"_90":271,"_272":7631,"_141":2602},"af2cabf1870c",[],{"_20":7633,"_90":271,"_272":7634,"_141":7636},"049ddb2be441",[7635],"6e713cd","to our tiny little pond when they're out there in the ocean, right?",{"_20":7638,"_90":271,"_272":7639,"_141":2602},"64af212cf645",[],{"_20":7641,"_90":271,"_272":7642,"_141":7644},"10bea8be03d3",[7643],"8c7e069","And had to change that mentality.",[7646,7648,7650],{"_20":7627,"_90":2618,"_2619":7647},"00:40:09.700",{"_20":7635,"_90":2618,"_2619":7649},"00:40:12.760",{"_20":7643,"_90":2618,"_2619":7651},"00:40:15.560",{"_20":7653,"_90":266,"_267":7654,"_275":7676,"_277":278},"fabd37fab93c",[7655,7660,7663,7668,7671],{"_20":7656,"_90":271,"_272":7657,"_141":7659},"f50010e36943",[7658],"05c5eae","Or other people who do find actually a huge amount of success with their own Discourse, you know, and the way that they engage.",{"_20":7661,"_90":271,"_272":7662,"_141":2602},"99e6175ee408",[],{"_20":7664,"_90":271,"_272":7665,"_141":7667},"a0c39321b936",[7666],"a4556ba","So like they had a model that worked for them. I've seen other models where they're using Discourse and they're like struggling to get engineering time to just make the plugins work and all that.",{"_20":7669,"_90":271,"_272":7670,"_141":2602},"869890aeb68a",[],{"_20":7672,"_90":271,"_272":7673,"_141":7675},"c2eb429b6e39",[7674],"1ef3343","You know, I would say that that's definitely not a super success.",[7677,7679,7681],{"_20":7658,"_90":2618,"_2619":7678},"00:40:17.320",{"_20":7666,"_90":2618,"_2619":7680},"00:40:23.960",{"_20":7674,"_90":2618,"_2619":7682},"00:40:33.240",{"_20":7684,"_90":266,"_267":7685,"_275":7707,"_277":278},"69e701f6531d",[7686,7691,7694,7699,7702],{"_20":7687,"_90":271,"_272":7688,"_141":7690},"fe0564dc15d1",[7689],"1ed5283","Slack's not perfect, but you know, I think sometimes if you're just getting started, like",{"_20":7692,"_90":271,"_272":7693,"_141":2602},"20510e6df3d0",[],{"_20":7695,"_90":271,"_272":7696,"_141":7698},"0a00d2caa4cd",[7697],"b9128cd","just go for the easiest thing where you can engage with people and then figure out what you think might be the best for your product and what your needs are instead of like start thinking up front how much money you're gonna spend to like",{"_20":7700,"_90":271,"_272":7701,"_141":2602},"ed4f43eb97e5",[],{"_20":7703,"_90":271,"_272":7704,"_141":7706},"03716842d9db",[7705],"2170a84","build something that you might end up having to shut down in a couple of years.",[7708,7710,7712],{"_20":7689,"_90":2618,"_2619":7709},"00:40:35.880",{"_20":7697,"_90":2618,"_2619":7711},"00:40:41.299",{"_20":7705,"_90":2618,"_2619":7713},"00:40:52.920",{"_20":7715,"_90":266,"_267":7716,"_275":7721,"_277":394},"a9a95140a274",[7717],{"_20":7718,"_90":271,"_272":7719,"_141":7720},"005c03f93c88",[],"Audience Q&A",[],{"_20":7723,"_90":266,"_267":7724,"_275":7741,"_277":278},"2c88a826d8e3",[7725,7729,7733,7736],{"_20":7726,"_90":271,"_272":7727,"_141":2988},"99b7a30a51b1",[7728,582],"4dcd268",{"_20":7730,"_90":271,"_272":7731,"_141":7732},"1443f3fbed20",[7728]," Awesome. Great. All right, now we'll open it up.",{"_20":7734,"_90":271,"_272":7735,"_141":2602},"0b676e761e74",[],{"_20":7737,"_90":271,"_272":7738,"_141":7740},"7a1cccc8dd81",[7739],"abba595","Mina, if you'll walk around, I know somebody right here in the front, very eager to ask a question to us and the panelists, so please.",[7742,7744],{"_20":7728,"_90":2618,"_2619":7743},"00:40:56.760",{"_20":7739,"_90":2618,"_2619":7745},"00:40:59.560",{"_20":7747,"_90":266,"_267":7748,"_275":7773,"_277":278},"4348723192c6",[7749,7753,7757,7760,7765,7768],{"_20":7750,"_90":271,"_272":7751,"_141":3106},"3ee220d4acca",[7752,582],"f2f2bb4",{"_20":7754,"_90":271,"_272":7755,"_141":7756},"57d963802a2b",[7752]," I think the first thing you could do is start reaching out and talking to them.",{"_20":7758,"_90":271,"_272":7759,"_141":2602},"2804e75ae0bf",[],{"_20":7761,"_90":271,"_272":7762,"_141":7764},"33cb0ca8902e",[7763],"1fffc73","You know, say, hey, we know you're using this product.",{"_20":7766,"_90":271,"_272":7767,"_141":2602},"8b40d51d9ffa",[],{"_20":7769,"_90":271,"_272":7770,"_141":7772},"7a270ee17818",[7771],"66f23b1","We'd love your feedback. We'd love to invite you to like a office hours type thing.",[7774,7776,7778],{"_20":7752,"_90":2618,"_2619":7775},"00:41:07.320",{"_20":7763,"_90":2618,"_2619":7777},"00:41:10.280",{"_20":7771,"_90":2618,"_2619":7779},"00:41:13.000",{"_20":7781,"_90":266,"_267":7782,"_275":7804,"_277":278},"4a60e7059a00",[7783,7788,7791,7796,7799],{"_20":7784,"_90":271,"_272":7785,"_141":7787},"6ffa5feaa380",[7786],"f30b69c","That's a good way to make them understand they have an impact on the products' future, that they connect with you.",{"_20":7789,"_90":271,"_272":7790,"_141":2602},"81d43e80c637",[],{"_20":7792,"_90":271,"_272":7793,"_141":7795},"7505202e5e1a",[7794],"cbc1a46","And also again, your focus should be on the relationship, not the lead.",{"_20":7797,"_90":271,"_272":7798,"_141":2602},"d10de9a6a027",[],{"_20":7800,"_90":271,"_272":7801,"_141":7803},"2f25fa36221a",[7802],"40fdd05","So that'd be the first thing.",[7805,7807,7809],{"_20":7786,"_90":2618,"_2619":7806},"00:41:19.340",{"_20":7794,"_90":2618,"_2619":7808},"00:41:24.780",{"_20":7802,"_90":2618,"_2619":7810},"00:41:27.940",{"_20":7812,"_90":266,"_267":7813,"_275":7827,"_277":278},"17542ec2eb05",[7814,7819,7822],{"_20":7815,"_90":271,"_272":7816,"_141":7818},"11bae5970bda",[7817],"7207177","The second thing is start finding ways that you can work with them.",{"_20":7820,"_90":271,"_272":7821,"_141":2602},"f94b117d0d0c",[],{"_20":7823,"_90":271,"_272":7824,"_141":7826},"60b4de08e8c1",[7825],"78a65fe","So it can be a one-on-one where you're saying, hey, look, you know, we really love your experience.",[7828,7830],{"_20":7817,"_90":2618,"_2619":7829},"00:41:29.940",{"_20":7825,"_90":2618,"_2619":7831},"00:41:33.460",{"_20":7833,"_90":266,"_267":7834,"_275":7856,"_277":278},"65b4ed2a9e87",[7835,7840,7843,7848,7851],{"_20":7836,"_90":271,"_272":7837,"_141":7839},"f241a13ed623",[7838],"38ded6e","Would you be willing to write a blog post on this?",{"_20":7841,"_90":271,"_272":7842,"_141":2602},"59f09788c53c",[],{"_20":7844,"_90":271,"_272":7845,"_141":7847},"428e15f8d260",[7846],"b489428","Would you be willing to do a guest blog on our blog?",{"_20":7849,"_90":271,"_272":7850,"_141":2602},"3524027fa513",[],{"_20":7852,"_90":271,"_272":7853,"_141":7855},"1edb6a194eb0",[7854],"2c743ce","Again, you're highlighting them, you're giving them an opportunity to build their reputation, but also letting them share their knowledge.",[7857,7859,7861],{"_20":7838,"_90":2618,"_2619":7858},"00:41:37.140",{"_20":7846,"_90":2618,"_2619":7860},"00:41:38.900",{"_20":7854,"_90":2618,"_2619":7862},"00:41:41.040",{"_20":7864,"_90":266,"_267":7865,"_275":7879,"_277":278},"67d4d156c0f6",[7866,7871,7874],{"_20":7867,"_90":271,"_272":7868,"_141":7870},"f7c09104443c",[7869],"0d262bc","And that goes as you can eventually build, you can start getting more and formal programs in.",{"_20":7872,"_90":271,"_272":7873,"_141":2602},"91cb3ab57554",[],{"_20":7875,"_90":271,"_272":7876,"_141":7878},"4078a9901722",[7877],"afd91f8","But really you want to find those people who are going to be your top advocates who as you launch your community program are gonna be the cornerstones of what you're building.",[7880,7882],{"_20":7869,"_90":2618,"_2619":7881},"00:41:46.400",{"_20":7877,"_90":2618,"_2619":7883},"00:41:50.420",{"_20":7885,"_90":266,"_267":7886,"_275":7903,"_277":278},"ed81db0a76f5",[7887,7891,7895,7898],{"_20":7888,"_90":271,"_272":7889,"_141":3162},"b4afcd3b1ad3",[7890,582],"56b2b51",{"_20":7892,"_90":271,"_272":7893,"_141":7894},"9740f8f1a331",[7890]," Yeah, and if they can't do a blog post, it could be like a technical integration.",{"_20":7896,"_90":271,"_272":7897,"_141":2602},"948d9c6f6083",[],{"_20":7899,"_90":271,"_272":7900,"_141":7902},"8e805cb83feb",[7901],"f798ee3","An interview if it's somebody non-technical.",[7904,7906],{"_20":7890,"_90":2618,"_2619":7905},"00:41:57.860",{"_20":7901,"_90":2618,"_2619":7907},"00:42:02.660",{"_20":7909,"_90":266,"_267":7910,"_275":7932,"_277":278},"ae43b9e7d7ca",[7911,7916,7919,7924,7927],{"_20":7912,"_90":271,"_272":7913,"_141":7915},"d9b7b58a81ef",[7914],"8fea992","But also you know I would just ask like how are you currently interacting with your developers?",{"_20":7917,"_90":271,"_272":7918,"_141":2602},"0583a10417ec",[],{"_20":7920,"_90":271,"_272":7921,"_141":7923},"fbb20d824820",[7922],"c363861","What works, even if it's just email, you know, double down on the stuff that works.",{"_20":7925,"_90":271,"_272":7926,"_141":2602},"ce41cc9956fe",[],{"_20":7928,"_90":271,"_272":7929,"_141":7931},"fedd1767ef69",[7930],"77d88ea","Don't try to craft something from scratch.",[7933,7935,7937],{"_20":7914,"_90":2618,"_2619":7934},"00:42:06.080",{"_20":7922,"_90":2618,"_2619":7936},"00:42:11.120",{"_20":7930,"_90":2618,"_2619":7938},"00:42:16.460",{"_20":7940,"_90":266,"_267":7941,"_275":7958,"_277":278},"51b78d1a3646",[7942,7946,7950,7953],{"_20":7943,"_90":271,"_272":7944,"_141":3187},"a6734e49cba1",[7945,582],"f0838aa",{"_20":7947,"_90":271,"_272":7948,"_141":7949},"5587dcf36d88",[7945]," Yeah. To piggyback, I'd say, you know, everybody has different modes in which they like to communicate, so have those different modes available, whether it's Slack or through a regular call or",{"_20":7951,"_90":271,"_272":7952,"_141":2602},"961ecd57d5cf",[],{"_20":7954,"_90":271,"_272":7955,"_141":7957},"d3bf705cade6",[7956],"4738adc","you know, some other means that just have those different channels available so that people can communicate in their time zone and in the method that they prefer.",[7959,7961],{"_20":7945,"_90":2618,"_2619":7960},"00:42:18.860",{"_20":7956,"_90":2618,"_2619":7962},"00:42:28.940",{"_20":7964,"_90":266,"_267":7965,"_275":7990,"_277":278},"d806126e6ff1",[7966,7970,7974,7977,7982,7985],{"_20":7967,"_90":271,"_272":7968,"_141":2988},"9a8e5b0d6c58",[7969,582],"80ce209",{"_20":7971,"_90":271,"_272":7972,"_141":7973},"69b790b7de67",[7969]," I would agree. I would echo that.",{"_20":7975,"_90":271,"_272":7976,"_141":2602},"0c17c71ea395",[],{"_20":7978,"_90":271,"_272":7979,"_141":7981},"303320aa3ac7",[7980],"2ef9793","Build the relationships and go where they are.",{"_20":7983,"_90":271,"_272":7984,"_141":2602},"75000711ccb3",[],{"_20":7986,"_90":271,"_272":7987,"_141":7989},"06a1c9e4229c",[7988],"83a02d3","Meet them where they are and build that relationship.",[7991,7993,7995],{"_20":7969,"_90":2618,"_2619":7992},"00:42:38.320",{"_20":7980,"_90":2618,"_2619":7994},"00:42:39.760",{"_20":7988,"_90":2618,"_2619":7996},"00:42:41.840",{"_20":7998,"_90":266,"_267":7999,"_275":8008,"_277":278},"5e56493e119b",[8000,8004],{"_20":8001,"_90":271,"_272":8002,"_141":3106},"24fd7abaac31",[8003,582],"67e33e1",{"_20":8005,"_90":271,"_272":8006,"_141":8007},"74139bbde907",[8003]," If only there was a software company that you could speak to that.",[8009],{"_20":8003,"_90":2618,"_2619":8010},"00:42:44.480",{"_20":8012,"_90":266,"_267":8013,"_275":8038,"_277":278},"46d54322d383",[8014,8018,8022,8025,8030,8033],{"_20":8015,"_90":271,"_272":8016,"_141":2988},"0105d4f1998e",[8017,582],"d46bdbd",{"_20":8019,"_90":271,"_272":8020,"_141":8021},"7a2a6b14975a",[8017]," I",{"_20":8023,"_90":271,"_272":8024,"_141":2602},"564e84118e6e",[],{"_20":8026,"_90":271,"_272":8027,"_141":8029},"9d3994cff988",[8028],"664fa42","don't think any of the panelists have any idea, but maybe our moderator, maybe the sponsor, yeah, there is definitely purpose-built software out there for it.",{"_20":8031,"_90":271,"_272":8032,"_141":2602},"89a99b72adc7",[],{"_20":8034,"_90":271,"_272":8035,"_141":8037},"4f6bcfdc3835",[8036],"223b237","For definite sure. I would love to talk to you right after that.",[8039,8041,8043],{"_20":8017,"_90":2618,"_2619":8040},"00:42:48.200",{"_20":8028,"_90":2618,"_2619":8042},"00:42:48.600",{"_20":8036,"_90":2618,"_2619":8044},"00:42:56.120",{"_20":8046,"_90":266,"_267":8047,"_275":8072,"_277":278},"5b3fe0b0a9ba",[8048,8052,8056,8059,8064,8067],{"_20":8049,"_90":271,"_272":8050,"_141":3106},"adbc36047502",[8051,582],"e154ef9",{"_20":8053,"_90":271,"_272":8054,"_141":8055},"ec0dba2a8da3",[8051]," Yes, the answer is yes. To ruin his sales pitch, really quickly, just because I'm gonna get myself in trouble.",{"_20":8057,"_90":271,"_272":8058,"_141":2602},"95b9f6c2a634",[],{"_20":8060,"_90":271,"_272":8061,"_141":8063},"738cb8fe4c91",[8062],"9713b3e","Right, right. I'll pay you later.",{"_20":8065,"_90":271,"_272":8066,"_141":2602},"e7c2252fdedb",[],{"_20":8068,"_90":271,"_272":8069,"_141":8071},"bf8eaff78702",[8070],"65089ce","You know there's a lot of great tools out there.",[8073,8075,8077],{"_20":8051,"_90":2618,"_2619":8074},"00:43:02.520",{"_20":8062,"_90":2618,"_2619":8076},"00:43:08.580",{"_20":8070,"_90":2618,"_2619":8078},"00:43:11.780",{"_20":8080,"_90":266,"_267":8081,"_275":8103,"_277":278},"60aeac4a5064",[8082,8087,8090,8095,8098],{"_20":8083,"_90":271,"_272":8084,"_141":8086},"e5710d12286d",[8085],"3d659cc","You know, there we mentioned there's tools, AnswerHub specifically, I don't know if I'm supposed to say that or not, but it's a tremendous forum solution.",{"_20":8088,"_90":271,"_272":8089,"_141":2602},"4a15f191eae0",[],{"_20":8091,"_90":271,"_272":8092,"_141":8094},"b961926a1197",[8093],"e2a40ce","I use it at MuleSoft, we use at RingCentral.",{"_20":8096,"_90":271,"_272":8097,"_141":2602},"c0499c6a1d93",[],{"_20":8099,"_90":271,"_272":8100,"_141":8102},"c8a043fa60e3",[8101],"3b735fb","Absolutely great product. You know there's tools we mentioned for gamification.",[8104,8106,8108],{"_20":8085,"_90":2618,"_2619":8105},"00:43:14.340",{"_20":8093,"_90":2618,"_2619":8107},"00:43:22.000",{"_20":8101,"_90":2618,"_2619":8109},"00:43:24.320",{"_20":8111,"_90":266,"_267":8112,"_275":8134,"_277":278},"8a4248c881a6",[8113,8118,8121,8126,8129],{"_20":8114,"_90":271,"_272":8115,"_141":8117},"b0a69587af5f",[8116],"431227d","There's, you know, you can do tools, you can use Slack or Glip from RingCentral for team messaging.",{"_20":8119,"_90":271,"_272":8120,"_141":2602},"27e932f4c8ce",[],{"_20":8122,"_90":271,"_272":8123,"_141":8125},"df6e77da1980",[8124],"baf3c46","I'm getting paid for being up here now.",{"_20":8127,"_90":271,"_272":8128,"_141":2602},"4bed542445e6",[],{"_20":8130,"_90":271,"_272":8131,"_141":8133},"31682c80276c",[8132],"f648fc4","I'm doing all sponsored.",[8135,8137,8139],{"_20":8116,"_90":2618,"_2619":8136},"00:43:28.400",{"_20":8124,"_90":2618,"_2619":8138},"00:43:33.760",{"_20":8132,"_90":2618,"_2619":8140},"00:43:35.440",{"_20":8142,"_90":266,"_267":8143,"_275":8152,"_277":278},"255fa8281a4d",[8144,8148],{"_20":8145,"_90":271,"_272":8146,"_141":3162},"d22dc4ac7fcb",[8147,582],"ca40726",{"_20":8149,"_90":271,"_272":8150,"_141":8151},"4c81d3181466",[8147]," You're getting paid?",[8153],{"_20":8147,"_90":2618,"_2619":8154},"00:43:37.080",{"_20":8156,"_90":266,"_267":8157,"_275":8174,"_277":278},"276ad1e5a974",[8158,8162,8166,8169],{"_20":8159,"_90":271,"_272":8160,"_141":3106},"735211cd7a3c",[8161,582],"d6e613c",{"_20":8163,"_90":271,"_272":8164,"_141":8165},"c1fdaeb2684e",[8161]," Well not really. You're not? I'm missing out.",{"_20":8167,"_90":271,"_272":8168,"_141":2602},"1c7953500a51",[],{"_20":8170,"_90":271,"_272":8171,"_141":8173},"47aa91ed5c91",[8172],"6cf8303","No. But you need to find the right tools for your community.",[8175,8177],{"_20":8161,"_90":2618,"_2619":8176},"00:43:38.280",{"_20":8172,"_90":2618,"_2619":8178},"00:43:41.880",{"_20":8180,"_90":266,"_267":8181,"_275":8195,"_277":278},"6a722efe33ad",[8182,8187,8190],{"_20":8183,"_90":271,"_272":8184,"_141":8186},"02ffb493016e",[8185],"3d4def2","Right. You know, so it may be something where you can look at, you know, IBM and say, wow, they have all this stuff.",{"_20":8188,"_90":271,"_272":8189,"_141":2602},"4ab18e007590",[],{"_20":8191,"_90":271,"_272":8192,"_141":8194},"7d943fb97a8c",[8193],"b2acde4","Chances are if you're a startup, you're not ready for all the stuff that IBM has, and you're not gonna, you know, you guys have a great community.",[8196,8198],{"_20":8185,"_90":2618,"_2619":8197},"00:43:45.240",{"_20":8193,"_90":2618,"_2619":8199},"00:43:49.780",{"_20":8201,"_90":266,"_267":8202,"_275":8224,"_277":278},"023cc565525d",[8203,8208,8211,8216,8219],{"_20":8204,"_90":271,"_272":8205,"_141":8207},"205e73746111",[8206],"14247fb","Like you built like this amazing thing.",{"_20":8209,"_90":271,"_272":8210,"_141":2602},"a1c40a29e59c",[],{"_20":8212,"_90":271,"_272":8213,"_141":8215},"85cbe4d8b8ae",[8214],"4873010","Thanks, man. But you'll find the tools again to Tamao's point of how your community is already interacting with you.",{"_20":8217,"_90":271,"_272":8218,"_141":2602},"6405f940509e",[],{"_20":8220,"_90":271,"_272":8221,"_141":8223},"11ee942a4447",[8222],"7ac29b0","Use those tools first, start with that, and then you can expand and build.",[8225,8227,8229],{"_20":8206,"_90":2618,"_2619":8226},"00:43:55.859",{"_20":8214,"_90":2618,"_2619":8228},"00:43:58.500",{"_20":8222,"_90":2618,"_2619":8230},"00:44:05.180",{"_20":8232,"_90":266,"_267":8233,"_275":8239,"_277":278},"9a24f859a525",[8234],{"_20":8235,"_90":271,"_272":8236,"_141":8238},"1a2111851ad0",[8237],"d91aee5","And there's a lot of great open source tools we can start with until your company's matured or you've matured to the point of saying, okay, I'm ready to really commit to this and purchase more expensive tooling.",[8240],{"_20":8237,"_90":2618,"_2619":8241},"00:44:08.359",{"_20":8243,"_90":266,"_267":8244,"_275":8269,"_277":278},"fe5f9c8a9cca",[8245,8249,8253,8256,8261,8264],{"_20":8246,"_90":271,"_272":8247,"_141":2988},"7c713e3ff416",[8248,582],"a536670",{"_20":8250,"_90":271,"_272":8251,"_141":8252},"8bf190b3c7df",[8248]," The other thing I would say is no matter what tool you use, those relationships and that work to actually develop programs and be where the developers are, you still have to do all that stuff.",{"_20":8254,"_90":271,"_272":8255,"_141":2602},"134998deea0b",[],{"_20":8257,"_90":271,"_272":8258,"_141":8260},"8ddbd6b506fa",[8259],"b1a3afb","A tool is only going to take you so far.",{"_20":8262,"_90":271,"_272":8263,"_141":2602},"14ef01b82ccd",[],{"_20":8265,"_90":271,"_272":8266,"_141":8268},"b0c7aa3fc220",[8267],"346750f","So being able to think through a lot of the things we talked about on health and vibrancy and meeting the developers where they are, that relationship building is you got to do that stuff on your own too.",[8270,8272,8274],{"_20":8248,"_90":2618,"_2619":8271},"00:44:18.359",{"_20":8259,"_90":2618,"_2619":8273},"00:44:29.900",{"_20":8267,"_90":2618,"_2619":8275},"00:44:31.720",{"_20":8277,"_90":266,"_267":8278,"_275":8295,"_277":278},"ca3b96f66f1f",[8279,8283,8287,8290],{"_20":8280,"_90":271,"_272":8281,"_141":3106},"2e363c8cb3c2",[8282,582],"4c0b003",{"_20":8284,"_90":271,"_272":8285,"_141":8286},"32a9d3a58c1a",[8282]," So I think the first thing with any community program when you start building the community program, you have to understand where your company stands in that community. In the case of RingCentral, pick on them, great company.",{"_20":8288,"_90":271,"_272":8289,"_141":2602},"9ed204daf318",[],{"_20":8291,"_90":271,"_272":8292,"_141":8294},"3d0a1c5c4b24",[8293],"b5f7a85","They're actually the leader in cloud communications.",[8296,8298],{"_20":8282,"_90":2618,"_2619":8297},"00:44:43.400",{"_20":8293,"_90":2618,"_2619":8299},"00:44:55.200",{"_20":8301,"_90":266,"_267":8302,"_275":8324,"_277":278},"efc387e8a370",[8303,8308,8311,8316,8319],{"_20":8304,"_90":271,"_272":8305,"_141":8307},"6ea4843b7a5b",[8306],"0141a71","Yet when I go to developers like, oh, are you guys the doorbell company?",{"_20":8309,"_90":271,"_272":8310,"_141":2602},"75f8e79e91f1",[],{"_20":8312,"_90":271,"_272":8313,"_141":8315},"9bce30038e3d",[8314],"5a4fed2","Or the other one I got that I absolutely enjoyed was just, I love you guys, you're amazing.",{"_20":8317,"_90":271,"_272":8318,"_141":2602},"89064c32356c",[],{"_20":8320,"_90":271,"_272":8321,"_141":8323},"a54f7ace9dc4",[8322],"1a16045","I sent a fax with you like 18 years ago.",[8325,8327,8329],{"_20":8306,"_90":2618,"_2619":8326},"00:44:58.400",{"_20":8314,"_90":2618,"_2619":8328},"00:45:03.320",{"_20":8322,"_90":2618,"_2619":8330},"00:45:07.480",{"_20":8332,"_90":266,"_267":8333,"_275":8339,"_277":278},"0c99ff10554a",[8334],{"_20":8335,"_90":271,"_272":8336,"_141":8338},"18d27ccd18f0",[8337],"54a58aa","Ouch. And so in the case of RingCentral, some people know that one, we have an API, we have these capabilities, and you know you can do a lot more with communications than just make a phone call.",[8340],{"_20":8337,"_90":2618,"_2619":8341},"00:45:11.180",{"_20":8343,"_90":266,"_267":8344,"_275":8350,"_277":278},"37bd9798e870",[8345],{"_20":8346,"_90":271,"_272":8347,"_141":8349},"078e0069a567",[8348],"08a28c6","MuleSoft had gone from being open source to enterprise and we had a lot of developers that felt like we betrayed that trust when we took their code that they wrote, packaged it up, and started selling it.",[8351],{"_20":8348,"_90":2618,"_2619":8352},"00:45:20.220",{"_20":8354,"_90":266,"_267":8355,"_275":8385,"_277":278},"1240518e49a0",[8356,8361,8364,8369,8372,8377,8380],{"_20":8357,"_90":271,"_272":8358,"_141":8360},"66a98bb84e37",[8359],"ecc98ed","And so when we looked at MuleSoft, we had a lot of different issues.",{"_20":8362,"_90":271,"_272":8363,"_141":2602},"17c652d3d657",[],{"_20":8365,"_90":271,"_272":8366,"_141":8368},"ddbbe1c48fbf",[8367],"a9db536","We looked at our forum, we had a 35% response rate.",{"_20":8370,"_90":271,"_272":8371,"_141":2602},"d6798fcf597f",[],{"_20":8373,"_90":271,"_272":8374,"_141":8376},"0cdb779b6134",[8375],"add7077","And you basically three out of every ten questions that got an answer, most of those were you should contact support.",{"_20":8378,"_90":271,"_272":8379,"_141":2602},"4798e0d3a9ef",[],{"_20":8381,"_90":271,"_272":8382,"_141":8384},"f006ba6609f9",[8383],"c68e062","Not very helpful. A lot of people again who are very upset with us.",[8386,8388,8390,8392],{"_20":8359,"_90":2618,"_2619":8387},"00:45:31.980",{"_20":8367,"_90":2618,"_2619":8389},"00:45:35.820",{"_20":8375,"_90":2618,"_2619":8391},"00:45:39.100",{"_20":8383,"_90":2618,"_2619":8393},"00:45:44.960",{"_20":8395,"_90":266,"_267":8396,"_275":8402,"_277":278},"d9d6bd98e6a2",[8397],{"_20":8398,"_90":271,"_272":8399,"_141":8401},"f6585c207337",[8400],"a2671d3","And so we started talking to different members, trying to understand what's the underlying root problem.",[8403],{"_20":8400,"_90":2618,"_2619":8404},"00:45:48.240",{"_20":8406,"_90":266,"_267":8407,"_275":8421,"_277":2033},"f6be5a37ae4c",[8408,8413,8416],{"_20":8409,"_90":271,"_272":8410,"_141":8412},"47805f7eb45e",[8411],"2b17c12","And we decided that the problem wasn't that our forum was the wrong software, people weren't engaged there.",{"_20":8414,"_90":271,"_272":8415,"_141":2602},"4e0bb340d1b0",[],{"_20":8417,"_90":271,"_272":8418,"_141":8420},"2ce45cfbaf02",[8419],"78f200b","The problem was that they weren't interested in what we were doing, they'd lost that trust in us, and they didn't feel that they had a voice anymore.",[8422,8424],{"_20":8411,"_90":2618,"_2619":8423},"00:45:52.380",{"_20":8419,"_90":2618,"_2619":8425},"00:45:57.180",{"_20":8427,"_90":266,"_267":8428,"_275":8442,"_277":278},"bc58a7893a4f",[8429,8434,8437],{"_20":8430,"_90":271,"_272":8431,"_141":8433},"f1c7314bccbf",[8432],"704d65c","So we went to people, Ross Mason who founded MuleSoft had originally just dubbed 10 MuleSoft champions.",{"_20":8435,"_90":271,"_272":8436,"_141":2602},"35c4f4519325",[],{"_20":8438,"_90":271,"_272":8439,"_141":8441},"c17e13d26995",[8440],"f60476a","He just like, you're a champion, you're a champion.",[8443,8445],{"_20":8432,"_90":2618,"_2619":8444},"00:46:04.360",{"_20":8440,"_90":2618,"_2619":8446},"00:46:10.040",{"_20":8448,"_90":266,"_267":8449,"_275":8479,"_277":278},"067b63f621bf",[8450,8455,8458,8463,8466,8471,8474],{"_20":8451,"_90":271,"_272":8452,"_141":8454},"9da57a40d6b7",[8453],"2047e70","We went to them, we asked their feedback.",{"_20":8456,"_90":271,"_272":8457,"_141":2602},"6c3a3e0358b8",[],{"_20":8459,"_90":271,"_272":8460,"_141":8462},"e661c6f449f6",[8461],"d8c0394","We wanted to respect that they were the original champions, grandfather them. And we talk to people, we post on the forum, we ask for other people's feedback in the community.",{"_20":8464,"_90":271,"_272":8465,"_141":2602},"0a3405e4ab47",[],{"_20":8467,"_90":271,"_272":8468,"_141":8470},"0d550aa29b54",[8469],"af0dc1b","I sent out a lot of emails to people saying, hey, what do you think?",{"_20":8472,"_90":271,"_272":8473,"_141":2602},"4697424b0123",[],{"_20":8475,"_90":271,"_272":8476,"_141":8478},"7497dd66e773",[8477],"88ca7c7","And just by doing that, I naturally start to find the people who are gonna be the right people to help restart this community.",[8480,8482,8484,8486],{"_20":8453,"_90":2618,"_2619":8481},"00:46:11.720",{"_20":8461,"_90":2618,"_2619":8483},"00:46:13.080",{"_20":8469,"_90":2618,"_2619":8485},"00:46:20.520",{"_20":8477,"_90":2618,"_2619":8487},"00:46:23.160",{"_20":8489,"_90":266,"_267":8490,"_275":8504,"_277":278},"82e4588e0e8f",[8491,8496,8499],{"_20":8492,"_90":271,"_272":8493,"_141":8495},"c870fead75e0",[8494],"8bf8274","And then one of my favorite ones is when we launched the champions program, I got a forum post from an individual and it was about probably",{"_20":8497,"_90":271,"_272":8498,"_141":2602},"dd0d11cab3b4",[],{"_20":8500,"_90":271,"_272":8501,"_141":8503},"f3e33046f752",[8502],"818bdde","four or five pages long about how I had single-handedly just killed the MuleSoft community.",[8505,8507],{"_20":8494,"_90":2618,"_2619":8506},"00:46:29.380",{"_20":8502,"_90":2618,"_2619":8508},"00:46:40.380",{"_20":8510,"_90":266,"_267":8511,"_275":8517,"_277":278},"830b61287ebd",[8512],{"_20":8513,"_90":271,"_272":8514,"_141":8516},"cae3c5f7e8b5",[8515],"79e82ec","And we said was, you started this, the forum's not working, this isn't working, here's all these issues, because you don't know what you're doing, you know, you basically destroyed what was left, you should be ashamed of yourself.",[8518],{"_20":8515,"_90":2618,"_2619":8519},"00:46:46.620",{"_20":8521,"_90":266,"_267":8522,"_275":8544,"_277":278},"182e5604ab6a",[8523,8528,8531,8536,8539],{"_20":8524,"_90":271,"_272":8525,"_141":8527},"5ea71903ec21",[8526],"ff5166a","And so I reached out to him and I said, hey, you know, I understand that this is really frustrating.",{"_20":8529,"_90":271,"_272":8530,"_141":2602},"78750c5ab69b",[],{"_20":8532,"_90":271,"_272":8533,"_141":8535},"df396b1e7350",[8534],"f8117e4","I understand that you're going through this.",{"_20":8537,"_90":271,"_272":8538,"_141":2602},"9e270ff29eec",[],{"_20":8540,"_90":271,"_272":8541,"_141":8543},"71e64ea6d9a5",[8542],"f18c291","Again, developers want to know that they're being heard and they want honesty and integrity.",[8545,8547,8549],{"_20":8526,"_90":2618,"_2619":8546},"00:46:56.540",{"_20":8534,"_90":2618,"_2619":8548},"00:47:01.260",{"_20":8542,"_90":2618,"_2619":8550},"00:47:02.700",{"_20":8552,"_90":266,"_267":8553,"_275":8583,"_277":278},"3d53d8395645",[8554,8559,8562,8567,8570,8575,8578],{"_20":8555,"_90":271,"_272":8556,"_141":8558},"6cf113e9e1b0",[8557],"35e5f64","I said, here's the deal. Try it out for a month.",{"_20":8560,"_90":271,"_272":8561,"_141":2602},"958644020e6a",[],{"_20":8563,"_90":271,"_272":8564,"_141":8566},"4adfdb85515e",[8565],"727ad97","If you don't like it, let's talk.",{"_20":8568,"_90":271,"_272":8569,"_141":2602},"bf89a21b748a",[],{"_20":8571,"_90":271,"_272":8572,"_141":8574},"1af12b83d235",[8573],"acfac1a","And if it's not making the community better, we'll kill it.",{"_20":8576,"_90":271,"_272":8577,"_141":2602},"d375144cb817",[],{"_20":8579,"_90":271,"_272":8580,"_141":8582},"1d10e7f5334f",[8581],"e5efd43","Like I'm going to give you that power.",[8584,8586,8588,8590],{"_20":8557,"_90":2618,"_2619":8585},"00:47:06.140",{"_20":8565,"_90":2618,"_2619":8587},"00:47:08.779",{"_20":8573,"_90":2618,"_2619":8589},"00:47:10.220",{"_20":8581,"_90":2618,"_2619":8591},"00:47:12.539",{"_20":8593,"_90":266,"_267":8594,"_275":8616,"_277":278},"f1c681743c2f",[8595,8600,8603,8608,8611],{"_20":8596,"_90":271,"_272":8597,"_141":8599},"112e7955f8b0",[8598],"574b9e6","Month later, and this is the only time this has ever happened in my life, I received an email from a developer with an apology.",{"_20":8601,"_90":271,"_272":8602,"_141":2602},"3d872649cd49",[],{"_20":8604,"_90":271,"_272":8605,"_141":8607},"483b6341a349",[8606],"d90f149","I've never seen that before.",{"_20":8609,"_90":271,"_272":8610,"_141":2602},"634b416a9d9b",[],{"_20":8612,"_90":271,"_272":8613,"_141":8615},"cbe6cc0b5f4b",[8614],"7bc4212","And that individual actually became one of our top champions and one of our greatest advocates for the program.",[8617,8619,8621],{"_20":8598,"_90":2618,"_2619":8618},"00:47:16.280",{"_20":8606,"_90":2618,"_2619":8620},"00:47:22.360",{"_20":8614,"_90":2618,"_2619":8622},"00:47:24.740",{"_20":8624,"_90":266,"_267":8625,"_275":8647,"_277":278},"9a39867aab65",[8626,8631,8634,8639,8642],{"_20":8627,"_90":271,"_272":8628,"_141":8630},"ae8c74eb6a5c",[8629],"855369a","Now what we did for the program is we looked at what we thought were the problems.",{"_20":8632,"_90":271,"_272":8633,"_141":2602},"a5adea81b806",[],{"_20":8635,"_90":271,"_272":8636,"_141":8638},"34d5cefe51bb",[8637],"6ccbeab","We thought the problem was, look, there's only so many finite influencers in the community to begin with.",{"_20":8640,"_90":271,"_272":8641,"_141":2602},"a0036839ba7a",[],{"_20":8643,"_90":271,"_272":8644,"_141":8646},"976a6eb1d07b",[8645],"23f873a","And a lot of companies say, okay, there's a hundred influencers, let's go after that one hundred influencers.",[8648,8650,8652],{"_20":8629,"_90":2618,"_2619":8649},"00:47:31.300",{"_20":8637,"_90":2618,"_2619":8651},"00:47:34.660",{"_20":8645,"_90":2618,"_2619":8653},"00:47:38.579",{"_20":8655,"_90":266,"_267":8656,"_275":8678,"_277":278},"3df4ed1b4304",[8657,8662,8665,8670,8673],{"_20":8658,"_90":271,"_272":8659,"_141":8661},"223a1501e348",[8660],"e63690a","And what happens is you have all four of us going after a hundred people.",{"_20":8663,"_90":271,"_272":8664,"_141":2602},"8de5582f82d2",[],{"_20":8666,"_90":271,"_272":8667,"_141":8669},"a12eb7a50b7f",[8668],"d43f383","Maybe I get twenty, he gets thirty, you know, you get thirty, Jesse gets the other twenty.",{"_20":8671,"_90":271,"_272":8672,"_141":2602},"f2ab82ee3aba",[],{"_20":8674,"_90":271,"_272":8675,"_141":8677},"74699e103cc4",[8676],"93fff09","And we keep fighting to keep them.",[8679,8681,8683],{"_20":8660,"_90":2618,"_2619":8680},"00:47:42.980",{"_20":8668,"_90":2618,"_2619":8682},"00:47:45.940",{"_20":8676,"_90":2618,"_2619":8684},"00:47:50.900",{"_20":8686,"_90":266,"_267":8687,"_275":8701,"_277":278},"844432fd3ab3",[8688,8693,8696],{"_20":8689,"_90":271,"_272":8690,"_141":8692},"44c0ae840ee3",[8691],"201065c","We wanted to give people the chance to grow and become an influencer in the community.",{"_20":8694,"_90":271,"_272":8695,"_141":2602},"2c01da74b131",[],{"_20":8697,"_90":271,"_272":8698,"_141":8700},"23992fe058f2",[8699],"fe84b5c","So we wanted to create new thought leaders, new experts.",[8702,8704],{"_20":8691,"_90":2618,"_2619":8703},"00:47:52.740",{"_20":8699,"_90":2618,"_2619":8705},"00:47:55.940",{"_20":8707,"_90":266,"_267":8708,"_275":8730,"_277":278},"3cf1d9ed46c9",[8709,8714,8717,8722,8725],{"_20":8710,"_90":271,"_272":8711,"_141":8713},"bb5f80eaae5c",[8712],"79b5993","And so we segmented the challenges based on their expertise where it was, you know, are you familiar with ESBs?",{"_20":8715,"_90":271,"_272":8716,"_141":2602},"e9d6111f0276",[],{"_20":8718,"_90":271,"_272":8719,"_141":8721},"20cc4b847252",[8720],"1245199","You know, have you worked with MuleSoft?",{"_20":8723,"_90":271,"_272":8724,"_141":2602},"0ca225ca174e",[],{"_20":8726,"_90":271,"_272":8727,"_141":8729},"788d9b79605f",[8728],"17bad0d","How would you rate yourself? And we made it fun.",[8731,8733,8735],{"_20":8712,"_90":2618,"_2619":8732},"00:47:58.440",{"_20":8720,"_90":2618,"_2619":8734},"00:48:04.599",{"_20":8728,"_90":2618,"_2619":8736},"00:48:06.040",{"_20":8738,"_90":266,"_267":8739,"_275":8753,"_277":278},"e826a46ec178",[8740,8745,8748],{"_20":8741,"_90":271,"_272":8742,"_141":8744},"3a78557d44de",[8743],"2cc2d07","It wasn't like I'm a senior software engineer, it was, you know, I'm a MuleSoft ninja.",{"_20":8746,"_90":271,"_272":8747,"_141":2602},"bd1abe4b4d9d",[],{"_20":8749,"_90":271,"_272":8750,"_141":8752},"44b6bced3d09",[8751],"7926dd9","And then based on that they got challenges that were specifically designed to help them build their reputation and grow their skills.",[8754,8756],{"_20":8743,"_90":2618,"_2619":8755},"00:48:08.119",{"_20":8751,"_90":2618,"_2619":8757},"00:48:13.020",{"_20":8759,"_90":266,"_267":8760,"_275":8782,"_277":278},"431eabea6751",[8761,8766,8769,8774,8777],{"_20":8762,"_90":271,"_272":8763,"_141":8765},"b23a9ca70d59",[8764],"f655e73","So there were some things like read blog posts.",{"_20":8767,"_90":271,"_272":8768,"_141":2602},"02acf9a3a067",[],{"_20":8770,"_90":271,"_272":8771,"_141":8773},"45e85fdec53a",[8772],"90127eb","We used a lot of gamification.",{"_20":8775,"_90":271,"_272":8776,"_141":2602},"0a1975672d05",[],{"_20":8778,"_90":271,"_272":8779,"_141":8781},"459fcafc5486",[8780],"2c4cc11","So here's a bunch of free points, you know, give up a bunch of points for this.",[8783,8785,8787],{"_20":8764,"_90":2618,"_2619":8784},"00:48:17.900",{"_20":8772,"_90":2618,"_2619":8786},"00:48:20.060",{"_20":8780,"_90":2618,"_2619":8788},"00:48:21.820",{"_20":8790,"_90":266,"_267":8791,"_275":8805,"_277":278},"691c0a8b66d8",[8792,8797,8800],{"_20":8793,"_90":271,"_272":8794,"_141":8796},"6061a463f8cb",[8795],"8a338d6","And then it was things like, you know, use your first app, write your first app so you got a chance to understand how to do it.",{"_20":8798,"_90":271,"_272":8799,"_141":2602},"2ddbd954e662",[],{"_20":8801,"_90":271,"_272":8802,"_141":8804},"44bef4c5ea57",[8803],"6f75235","Give us feedback. Walking away to you know ask a question on the forum, help someone on the forum.",[8806,8808],{"_20":8795,"_90":2618,"_2619":8807},"00:48:25.800",{"_20":8803,"_90":2618,"_2619":8809},"00:48:30.760",{"_20":8811,"_90":266,"_267":8812,"_275":8826,"_277":278},"ebd3a59faee8",[8813,8818,8821],{"_20":8814,"_90":271,"_272":8815,"_141":8817},"1676a57ee0c1",[8816],"46a6c95","My abbreviated plan. Your abbreviated plan.",{"_20":8819,"_90":271,"_272":8820,"_141":2602},"1c28e10c3273",[],{"_20":8822,"_90":271,"_272":8823,"_141":8825},"2340a4aa21f1",[8824],"a36f89e","our forum to that, but we actually went from a 35% response rate to, and I've never seen this in my life before, a 99% response rate with our forum, and we tripled the number of posts.",[8827,8829],{"_20":8816,"_90":2618,"_2619":8828},"00:48:41.500",{"_20":8824,"_90":2618,"_2619":8830},"00:48:47.559",{"_20":8832,"_90":266,"_267":8833,"_275":8847,"_277":278},"6f160304273f",[8834,8839,8842],{"_20":8835,"_90":271,"_272":8836,"_141":8838},"d664ff716fea",[8837],"1828cfc","But the idea is again give them challenges or help them grow, take them from where they are to where they want to be and help them become that leader in the community.",{"_20":8840,"_90":271,"_272":8841,"_141":2602},"c221fd716c6a",[],{"_20":8843,"_90":271,"_272":8844,"_141":8846},"febfa9dc1660",[8845],"1a3aad5","And again, you can do prizes, you can, you know, do badges.",[8848,8850],{"_20":8837,"_90":2618,"_2619":8849},"00:48:56.160",{"_20":8845,"_90":2618,"_2619":8851},"00:49:03.520",{"_20":8853,"_90":266,"_267":8854,"_275":8876,"_277":278},"9f81a2a41025",[8855,8860,8863,8868,8871],{"_20":8856,"_90":271,"_272":8857,"_141":8859},"9d64d284c662",[8858],"a8ce5ee","People are gonna join because they either want the prize.",{"_20":8861,"_90":271,"_272":8862,"_141":2602},"73d8df93b92f",[],{"_20":8864,"_90":271,"_272":8865,"_141":8867},"4562a3e96840",[8866],"4f4af35","They want the fun and the competition or they want the recognition.",{"_20":8869,"_90":271,"_272":8870,"_141":2602},"ae553c36898d",[],{"_20":8872,"_90":271,"_272":8873,"_141":8875},"f844cb8c41eb",[8874],"1017c88","You know, and that's what you can really help.",[8877,8879,8881],{"_20":8858,"_90":2618,"_2619":8878},"00:49:06.640",{"_20":8866,"_90":2618,"_2619":8880},"00:49:09.040",{"_20":8874,"_90":2618,"_2619":8882},"00:49:12.400",{"_20":8884,"_90":266,"_267":8885,"_275":8910,"_277":278},"402acaef17ec",[8886,8890,8894,8897,8902,8905],{"_20":8887,"_90":271,"_272":8888,"_141":2988},"2e00c5412777",[8889,582],"b9b6565",{"_20":8891,"_90":271,"_272":8892,"_141":8893},"a4e64a6978c3",[8889]," And what I really liked about your answer in there is it's relationship building.",{"_20":8895,"_90":271,"_272":8896,"_141":2602},"cd6bd7630f24",[],{"_20":8898,"_90":271,"_272":8899,"_141":8901},"dde23e2f82d2",[8900],"0c397ac","Back to that thing we keep coming at, you know, community, whether it's online or in person, it's about bringing people together, letting them connect and giving them somewhere they can belong.",{"_20":8903,"_90":271,"_272":8904,"_141":2602},"fce65deea0d2",[],{"_20":8906,"_90":271,"_272":8907,"_141":8909},"c8d87635b80b",[8908],"5e3847a","And so if you do that, you won't go wrong.",[8911,8913,8915],{"_20":8889,"_90":2618,"_2619":8912},"00:49:14.080",{"_20":8900,"_90":2618,"_2619":8914},"00:49:17.660",{"_20":8908,"_90":2618,"_2619":8916},"00:49:25.340",{"_20":8918,"_90":266,"_267":8919,"_275":8944,"_277":278},"f25b30e0ad4e",[8920,8924,8928,8931,8936,8939],{"_20":8921,"_90":271,"_272":8922,"_141":3187},"9f78d440d26b",[8923,582],"aa2c01f",{"_20":8925,"_90":271,"_272":8926,"_141":8927},"87f8e5ff7c02",[8923]," Super quickly, you should start your champions program on day one.",{"_20":8929,"_90":271,"_272":8930,"_141":2602},"f0e793122c44",[],{"_20":8932,"_90":271,"_272":8933,"_141":8935},"6722b6cb0948",[8934],"bdb7b1e","And your champions program, just like I said earlier, say thank you, right?",{"_20":8937,"_90":271,"_272":8938,"_141":2602},"2560180cec0b",[],{"_20":8940,"_90":271,"_272":8941,"_141":8943},"d1f2de40d2c1",[8942],"b5bde12","Tweet out something that's something cool that somebody's done in your community.",[8945,8947,8949],{"_20":8923,"_90":2618,"_2619":8946},"00:49:27.420",{"_20":8934,"_90":2618,"_2619":8948},"00:49:31.059",{"_20":8942,"_90":2618,"_2619":8950},"00:49:34.900",{"_20":8952,"_90":266,"_267":8953,"_275":8975,"_277":278},"3bbb740a13b9",[8954,8959,8962,8967,8970],{"_20":8955,"_90":271,"_272":8956,"_141":8958},"fa5ec0bf04e6",[8957],"82eed35","Sometimes we'll find out like, oh you're in our city.",{"_20":8960,"_90":271,"_272":8961,"_141":2602},"5cfd474f52f8",[],{"_20":8963,"_90":271,"_272":8964,"_141":8966},"62bade120811",[8965],"8d4a4be","You know, like we're kinda, we're really small but we're quite distributed.",{"_20":8968,"_90":271,"_272":8969,"_141":2602},"cb54886f9974",[],{"_20":8971,"_90":271,"_272":8972,"_141":8974},"1b8ecdefbcfe",[8973],"7a7abe8","So we'll find out like the guy in Berlin's gonna go have coffee with somebody in our community because they're like, oh we're both in Berlin.",[8976,8978,8980],{"_20":8957,"_90":2618,"_2619":8977},"00:49:40.240",{"_20":8965,"_90":2618,"_2619":8979},"00:49:42.880",{"_20":8973,"_90":2618,"_2619":8981},"00:49:45.920",{"_20":8983,"_90":266,"_267":8984,"_275":8998,"_277":278},"cfad409ff586",[8985,8990,8993],{"_20":8986,"_90":271,"_272":8987,"_141":8989},"d68f2294cc7a",[8988],"44d48c9","You know, you don't have to have this whole platform and a program.",{"_20":8991,"_90":271,"_272":8992,"_141":2602},"a4e968bb6ac2",[],{"_20":8994,"_90":271,"_272":8995,"_141":8997},"30b7375a29e8",[8996],"8b676ac","Your program is to make sure that you have that perspective deeply embedded in not just hopefully your developer relations team, but your whole company.",[8999,9001],{"_20":8988,"_90":2618,"_2619":9000},"00:49:51.760",{"_20":8996,"_90":2618,"_2619":9002},"00:49:55.839",{"_20":9004,"_90":266,"_267":9005,"_275":9019,"_277":278},"d7ca2da2934d",[9006,9011,9014],{"_20":9007,"_90":271,"_272":9008,"_141":9010},"50c41376e1a6",[9009],"f4bf914","You're saying thank you. And you know, if you're all at the same conference, like, oh well, hey, let's say hello.",{"_20":9012,"_90":271,"_272":9013,"_141":2602},"9900512a174c",[],{"_20":9015,"_90":271,"_272":9016,"_141":9018},"24ecdceda9f5",[9017],"87a61e0","You know, just recognizing and creating connections.",[9020,9022],{"_20":9009,"_90":2618,"_2619":9021},"00:50:03.260",{"_20":9017,"_90":2618,"_2619":9023},"00:50:08.060",{"_20":9025,"_90":266,"_267":9026,"_275":9043,"_277":278},"1bedacb2d0ab",[9027,9031,9035,9038],{"_20":9028,"_90":271,"_272":9029,"_141":2988},"2d5eda0ad7d8",[9030,582],"748051b",{"_20":9032,"_90":271,"_272":9033,"_141":9034},"885057ec860f",[9030]," Awesome. Great answers. I hope that helped.",{"_20":9036,"_90":271,"_272":9037,"_141":2602},"1a7e23a95368",[],{"_20":9039,"_90":271,"_272":9040,"_141":9042},"314de70ca903",[9041],"940bfec","Good question. Tamao, you're about to answer something.",[9044,9046],{"_20":9030,"_90":2618,"_2619":9045},"00:50:11.460",{"_20":9041,"_90":2618,"_2619":9047},"00:50:14.260",{"_20":9049,"_90":266,"_267":9050,"_275":9067,"_277":278},"f11da3e40952",[9051,9055,9059,9062],{"_20":9052,"_90":271,"_272":9053,"_141":3187},"7c89a8f1be63",[9054,582],"72699db",{"_20":9056,"_90":271,"_272":9057,"_141":9058},"0fa4a62075bd",[9054]," So you get free trial?",{"_20":9060,"_90":271,"_272":9061,"_141":2602},"d9b645cbff75",[],{"_20":9063,"_90":271,"_272":9064,"_141":9066},"31a2112788ad",[9065],"e72cbd4","I don't know. That's one way.",[9068,9070],{"_20":9054,"_90":2618,"_2619":9069},"00:50:16.820",{"_20":9065,"_90":2618,"_2619":9071},"00:50:18.900",{"_20":9073,"_90":266,"_267":9074,"_275":9091,"_277":278},"aedc9b05cc1b",[9075,9079,9083,9086],{"_20":9076,"_90":271,"_272":9077,"_141":3162},"6b3a042f3e42",[9078,582],"4cbd671",{"_20":9080,"_90":271,"_272":9081,"_141":9082},"6cfedf2ef453",[9078]," Okay. Yeah. So then I think it almost doesn't matter if it's open source or closed",{"_20":9084,"_90":271,"_272":9085,"_141":2602},"0939f6051677",[],{"_20":9087,"_90":271,"_272":9088,"_141":9090},"b31084fa1ffb",[9089],"b4d19d9","source, right? Because they're going to be having issues, no offense, they're gonna be having issues, you know, using your product, integrating with your product, integrating your product with their product, writing middleware and glue code and stuff like that.",[9092,9094],{"_20":9078,"_90":2618,"_2619":9093},"00:50:27.460",{"_20":9089,"_90":2618,"_2619":9095},"00:50:31.440",{"_20":9097,"_90":266,"_267":9098,"_275":9112,"_277":278},"f09173acbe4a",[9099,9104,9107],{"_20":9100,"_90":271,"_272":9101,"_141":9103},"5cdecdcc667e",[9102],"6e01612","And so they're going to be asking questions and getting support in a similar way to the way that they would in an open source project.",{"_20":9105,"_90":271,"_272":9106,"_141":2602},"19491a9cd19b",[],{"_20":9108,"_90":271,"_272":9109,"_141":9111},"a50c27a63ac9",[9110],"ccb7ee5","And so it's your responsibility to curate a community that helps solve those problems.",[9113,9115],{"_20":9102,"_90":2618,"_2619":9114},"00:50:42.880",{"_20":9110,"_90":2618,"_2619":9116},"00:50:49.720",{"_20":9118,"_90":266,"_267":9119,"_275":9136,"_277":278},"006022cd754d",[9120,9124,9128,9131],{"_20":9121,"_90":271,"_272":9122,"_141":3106},"8465c993c9af",[9123,582],"7ca7781",{"_20":9125,"_90":271,"_272":9126,"_141":9127},"ab354fe2750d",[9123]," It's an interesting question because the other week I had a friend reach out, he's doing a startup and he said, look we're creating this product.",{"_20":9129,"_90":271,"_272":9130,"_141":2602},"de4fc3e8bb58",[],{"_20":9132,"_90":271,"_272":9133,"_141":9135},"de615fb3abb8",[9134],"beff6a7","He goes, we don't have anything done yet, we just have a mock-up.",[9137,9139],{"_20":9123,"_90":2618,"_2619":9138},"00:50:55.140",{"_20":9134,"_90":2618,"_2619":9140},"00:51:03.140",{"_20":9142,"_90":266,"_267":9143,"_275":9157,"_277":278},"a5502e8daff1",[9144,9149,9152],{"_20":9145,"_90":271,"_272":9146,"_141":9148},"38a55bde059c",[9147],"f79071f","Would you come and take a look at it?",{"_20":9150,"_90":271,"_272":9151,"_141":2602},"0e280239b206",[],{"_20":9153,"_90":271,"_272":9154,"_141":9156},"5cdc5d4349bb",[9155],"a5ae673","And I came in and I looked at it and it was like, this is amazing.",[9158,9160],{"_20":9147,"_90":2618,"_2619":9159},"00:51:06.820",{"_20":9155,"_90":2618,"_2619":9161},"00:51:08.599",{"_20":9163,"_90":266,"_267":9164,"_275":9178,"_277":278},"4fd3d9065cb0",[9165,9170,9173],{"_20":9166,"_90":271,"_272":9167,"_141":9169},"300aad9acb43",[9168],"93098ae","I was able to give feedback, I was able to interact, and I'll tell you, I'm gonna be the first person to buy that product when it comes out.",{"_20":9171,"_90":271,"_272":9172,"_141":2602},"960873d68580",[],{"_20":9174,"_90":271,"_272":9175,"_141":9177},"6765f7b86b99",[9176],"12eda83","I'm also gonna be the first person singing its praises.",[9179,9181],{"_20":9168,"_90":2618,"_2619":9180},"00:51:11.640",{"_20":9176,"_90":2618,"_2619":9182},"00:51:16.680",{"_20":9184,"_90":266,"_267":9185,"_275":9207,"_277":278},"290d65a265d6",[9186,9191,9194,9199,9202],{"_20":9187,"_90":271,"_272":9188,"_141":9190},"248fa71e8d38",[9189],"076b84c","Just by doing that simple step of saying, look, it's not out yet, but involving people, getting that feedback, you're starting to build that community.",{"_20":9192,"_90":271,"_272":9193,"_141":2602},"59fe191b7b29",[],{"_20":9195,"_90":271,"_272":9196,"_141":9198},"d60b49dc1e1b",[9197],"5c1b11e","And then when he launches, I guess I'm gonna be on Twitter, I'm gonna be writing blog posts about it.",{"_20":9200,"_90":271,"_272":9201,"_141":2602},"01f8ae596b1e",[],{"_20":9203,"_90":271,"_272":9204,"_141":9206},"09e1d349d779",[9205],"0e53273","And just like, you know, goat yoga, it hopefully becomes viral and other people will talk about it as well.",[9208,9210,9212],{"_20":9189,"_90":2618,"_2619":9209},"00:51:18.920",{"_20":9197,"_90":2618,"_2619":9211},"00:51:25.320",{"_20":9205,"_90":2618,"_2619":9213},"00:51:29.620",{"_20":9215,"_90":266,"_267":9216,"_275":9230,"_277":278},"4dc348cd79be",[9217,9222,9225],{"_20":9218,"_90":271,"_272":9219,"_141":9221},"67db651cfb4a",[9220],"e13cd54","So, you know, RingCentral's the same boat, we're an API.",{"_20":9223,"_90":271,"_272":9224,"_141":2602},"5edfc37d04fa",[],{"_20":9226,"_90":271,"_272":9227,"_141":9229},"baef6c715889",[9228],"fbf7926","You know, that's my focus on, we don't have an open source project.",[9231,9233],{"_20":9220,"_90":2618,"_2619":9232},"00:51:34.500",{"_20":9228,"_90":2618,"_2619":9234},"00:51:37.460",{"_20":9236,"_90":266,"_267":9237,"_275":9251,"_277":278},"99e332a944cd",[9238,9243,9246],{"_20":9239,"_90":271,"_272":9240,"_141":9242},"35c2f92b2cc4",[9241],"986d7ff","As they've said, it's a service, and so you can involve them in entry very differently.",{"_20":9244,"_90":271,"_272":9245,"_141":2602},"78725115d33e",[],{"_20":9247,"_90":271,"_272":9248,"_141":9250},"57c0f78028b0",[9249],"6f04f2d","It's just the asks are slightly different and you're gonna have to change some of the approaches, but yeah, absolutely involve them as soon as possible.",[9252,9254],{"_20":9241,"_90":2618,"_2619":9253},"00:51:40.660",{"_20":9249,"_90":2618,"_2619":9255},"00:51:44.580",{"_20":9257,"_90":266,"_267":9258,"_275":9267,"_277":2033},"46d5d4767d7b",[9259,9263],{"_20":9260,"_90":271,"_272":9261,"_141":2988},"472bf5971e6e",[9262,582],"2a29fc5",{"_20":9264,"_90":271,"_272":9265,"_141":9266},"3b5c8c3d82f9",[9262]," I think that every interaction that you get with a user of your software is an opportunity to build community.",[9268],{"_20":9262,"_90":2618,"_2619":9269},"00:51:50.720",{"_20":9271,"_90":266,"_267":9272,"_275":9294,"_277":278},"72d3641582e4",[9273,9278,9281,9286,9289],{"_20":9274,"_90":271,"_272":9275,"_141":9277},"e912a3fc8854",[9276],"8fdb7ba","Right? When we break it down into the fundamentals of the human relationship, every time that you help someone with a bug, any time that you can write a piece of documentation, something they can read together, if you make that",{"_20":9279,"_90":271,"_272":9280,"_141":2602},"693baa3b6aec",[],{"_20":9282,"_90":271,"_272":9283,"_141":9285},"6a0707538919",[9284],"08f3237","something that they can contribute to as well.",{"_20":9287,"_90":271,"_272":9288,"_141":2602},"2acb3529ef34",[],{"_20":9290,"_90":271,"_272":9291,"_141":9293},"81dcc8b27f46",[9292],"6c567cb","Anything that you do, every interaction that you get with one of the users of your software is an opportunity to build community.",[9295,9297,9299],{"_20":9276,"_90":2618,"_2619":9296},"00:51:56.079",{"_20":9284,"_90":2618,"_2619":9298},"00:52:08.359",{"_20":9292,"_90":2618,"_2619":9300},"00:52:10.680",{"_20":9302,"_90":266,"_267":9303,"_275":9309,"_277":278},"6f11f3b50975",[9304],{"_20":9305,"_90":271,"_272":9306,"_141":9308},"e8b699612fb2",[9307],"a985b3c","So I think if we change that and think about it that way, in building groups of people using our software, developers specifically, and helping them in any way that we can, I think we'll do all right.",[9310],{"_20":9307,"_90":2618,"_2619":9311},"00:52:16.940",{"_20":9313,"_90":266,"_267":9314,"_275":9328,"_277":278},"f1f2d57663dd",[9315,9320,9323],{"_20":9316,"_90":271,"_272":9317,"_141":9319},"f7dba0ed443c",[9318],"a1108aa","Thanks to the Heavybit team for hosting us this evening.",{"_20":9321,"_90":271,"_272":9322,"_141":2602},"33901b11f816",[],{"_20":9324,"_90":271,"_272":9325,"_141":9327},"09aa9cab28d7",[9326],"14dae1c","It was awesome. Thanks to each one of you for sharing part of your evening with us.",[9329,9331],{"_20":9318,"_90":2618,"_2619":9330},"00:52:27.700",{"_20":9326,"_90":2618,"_2619":9332},"00:52:30.820",{"_20":9334,"_90":266,"_267":9335,"_275":9357,"_277":278},"42210fadbc7c",[9336,9341,9344,9349,9352],{"_20":9337,"_90":271,"_272":9338,"_141":9340},"e327c1ca6bd5",[9339],"c192cad","We appreciate it. And thanks to our panelists, my friends, and colleagues in the community space.",{"_20":9342,"_90":271,"_272":9343,"_141":2602},"ef05cce4987f",[],{"_20":9345,"_90":271,"_272":9346,"_141":9348},"be6de63497a3",[9347],"f84d626","Thanks so much for showing up.",{"_20":9350,"_90":271,"_272":9351,"_141":2602},"8e4d812c7838",[],{"_20":9353,"_90":271,"_272":9354,"_141":9356},"735adeb8d924",[9355],"90f0145","Give them a hand.",[9358,9360,9362],{"_20":9339,"_90":2618,"_2619":9359},"00:52:34.340",{"_20":9347,"_90":2618,"_2619":9361},"00:52:39.140",{"_20":9355,"_90":2618,"_2619":9363},"00:52:40.020",{"_20":9365,"_90":266,"_267":9366,"_275":9375,"_277":278},"a90249704b5d",[9367,9371],{"_20":9368,"_90":271,"_272":9369,"_141":3106},"73bede96b3be",[9370,582],"187f9cd",{"_20":9372,"_90":271,"_272":9373,"_141":9374},"8da8e06052b3",[9370]," Thanks.",[9376],{"_20":9370,"_90":2618,"_2619":9377},"00:52:40.920",{"_92":9379},{"_239":9380,"_241":9381,"_243":9382,"_90":9383,"_246":9384,"_9385":9386,"_7":9387,"_9409":9406,"_9410":9411,"_97":9412},"2022-07-13T08:26:31Z","517919cb-6d63-4c89-8a52-03ef00dc2a91","T2hc0DmC9WuoGWjQu4rU1L","mux.videoAsset","2022-09-05T22:26:41Z","assetId","7SUFCUoRNOxvnoVOkRW4rdFDNvs7NpBw",{"_9388":9389,"_9390":9391,"_310":9392,"_9393":9386,"_9394":9395,"_9396":9397,"_9398":9399,"_9400":9401,"_9402":9403},"aspect_ratio","16:9","created_at","1646203628",3170.375978,"id","master_access","none","max_stored_frame_rate",29.97,"max_stored_resolution","HD","mp4_support","standard","playback_ids",[9404],{"_20":9405,"_9393":9406,"_9407":9408},"ryrXdwDT","HOZ02PSLtRYd1Aq00ZpXPBwYZnsNXLjoh7","policy","public","playbackId","status","ready","https://stream.mux.com/HOZ02PSLtRYd1Aq00ZpXPBwYZnsNXLjoh7","seo",{"_9415":293,"_125":2466},"OGdescription","preview","pageNumber","actionData","errors"]

Building Vibrant Developer Communities

Speakers